hhr
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Post by hhr on Feb 8, 2015 2:25:28 GMT -8
So I've been bouncing around the web trying to get the straight dope on Union Pacific's 844, and I'm more than a little confused/concerned.
Rumors and reports of a 175% turnover rate at the steam shop in Cheyenne, lawsuits due to sexual misconduct, unneeded remodeling, pool chemicals being used as "water treatment", and multiple management changes since Steve Lee's retirement.
Then there are the reports of 844 needing new flues and superheater tubes way before it should have, 3985 being back burnered indefinitely, and that 4014 is in bad enough shape to fall into the "they bit off more than they could chew" catagory.
All of the above has me deeply concerned that 844 may be down for years, and she holds a special place in my heart, I was only 4 years old the first time I saw her in person. And the memory of my late Grandpa boosting me up to reach the steps, plus the kindness and patience of the crew in explaining everything to a wide eyed kid still touches me 4 1/2 decades later.
In the intervening years, I've been fortunate to log 25,000 miles behind her, chasing her, and listening to her "rolling thunder" exhaust and Leslie Long Chime whistle from the cab.
The thought of her cold, dead, and facing a bleak future fills me with dread.
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Post by Spikre on Feb 9, 2015 18:32:22 GMT -8
 Chuck, U.P.844/8444 is the only Class 1 Steamer to never have been retired,it has been on the Roster since 1944. but it has been out of service now and then, lets hope it will be back again in the near future. never have seen the 844,but have seen other 800s,and seem to think that one was climbed on some where, Council Bluffs, St.Louis ?? not sure, but do know they have been seen up close while on display. Spikre 
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Post by stevef45 on Feb 9, 2015 22:14:55 GMT -8
So I've been bouncing around the web trying to get the straight dope on Union Pacific's 844, and I'm more than a little confused/concerned. Rumors and reports of a 175% turnover rate at the steam shop in Cheyenne, lawsuits due to sexual misconduct, unneeded remodeling, pool chemicals being used as "water treatment", and multiple management changes since Steve Lee's retirement. Then there are the reports of 844 needing new flues and superheater tubes way before it should have, 3985 being back burnered indefinitely, and that 4014 is in bad enough shape to fall into the "they bit off more than they could chew" catagory. All of the above has me deeply concerned that 844 may be down for years, and she holds a special place in my heart, I was only 4 years old the first time I saw her in person. And the memory of my late Grandpa boosting me up to reach the steps, plus the kindness and patience of the crew in explaining everything to a wide eyed kid still touches me 4 1/2 decades later. In the intervening years, I've been fortunate to log 25,000 miles behind her, chasing her, and listening to her "rolling thunder" exhaust and Leslie Long Chime whistle from the cab. The thought of her cold, dead, and facing a bleak future fills me with dread. And of all the video's that union pacific put out regarding the 4014 move and its place at cheyenne, the parts they removed looked in dam good shape. Where have you heard all this info? 175% turnover? I find that hard to believe. |
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Post by onequiknova on Feb 9, 2015 22:20:37 GMT -8
From what I gather, Ed Dickens is a real piece of work. If what I read was true, 2014 was the first year since steam was retired that UP didn't have at least one steam powered excursion. Apparently some of the rumors about Ed are true, because UP has recently appointed someone new to run the steam shop.
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Post by onequiknova on Feb 9, 2015 22:26:48 GMT -8
So I've been bouncing around the web trying to get the straight dope on Union Pacific's 844, and I'm more than a little confused/concerned. Rumors and reports of a 175% turnover rate at the steam shop in Cheyenne, lawsuits due to sexual misconduct, unneeded remodeling, pool chemicals being used as "water treatment", and multiple management changes since Steve Lee's retirement. Then there are the reports of 844 needing new flues and superheater tubes way before it should have, 3985 being back burnered indefinitely, and that 4014 is in bad enough shape to fall into the "they bit off more than they could chew" catagory. All of the above has me deeply concerned that 844 may be down for years, and she holds a special place in my heart, I was only 4 years old the first time I saw her in person. And the memory of my late Grandpa boosting me up to reach the steps, plus the kindness and patience of the crew in explaining everything to a wide eyed kid still touches me 4 1/2 decades later. In the intervening years, I've been fortunate to log 25,000 miles behind her, chasing her, and listening to her "rolling thunder" exhaust and Leslie Long Chime whistle from the cab. The thought of her cold, dead, and facing a bleak future fills me with dread. And of all the video's that union pacific put out regarding the 4014 move and its place at cheyenne, the parts they removed looked in dam good shape. Where have you heard all this info? 175% turnover? I find that hard to believe. There are a few former UP steam crew guys on trainorders that spell out the current disfunction of the current steam crew, or lack thereof. I don't think there is one guy left from the crew Steve Lee ran. Ed ran them all off. They don't even have a boiler maker left. |
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Post by stevef45 on Feb 9, 2015 23:03:39 GMT -8
I guess upper management doesn't see anything wrong with all your steam shop guys leaving and going to other railroads or other departments the minute a new boss takes over.
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hhr
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Post by hhr on Feb 9, 2015 23:59:19 GMT -8
I've been reading the comments over on the other sites and it seems like Steve Lee's departure set the ball rolling into the gutter. 844 is much more than the only steam locomotive to avoid retirement, she's a national treasure, and arguably the finest steam engine ever built.
No steam out of Cheyenne in 2014 really set my alarm bells ringing. And yes, 844 has gone down for class repairs on occasion since 1960, but with 3985 parked until who knows when, and 4014 a minimum of three to five years from being lit off...things are bleak.
Hopefully the new management can get the house in order again, they have the money, they have the resources, and if Mr. Dickens is the main problem...show him the door.
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Post by Spikre on Feb 10, 2015 12:48:38 GMT -8
 Chuck, 844 was part of the Best Steamers ever built by Alco, the NYC Niagaras were also part of that group. but possibly the Best Alco Steamer ever built was NYC 5500 with "Franklin" Poppet valves, Class S2a. if the NYC group was built to U.P. clearances there would be no doubt about which was best.the tighter clearances may have slightly hindered performance,but not by that much. IF U.P. would have ordered the Next group of FEFs they would have had all the Alco Improvements and possibly had the Poppet Valves also. there was an article about this a few years back,cant recall which magazine it was in ?? Edit-- that could be the Article, thanks Chuck !! since these sort of locos will never be built again, its a nice guessing game. Spikre
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hhr
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Post by hhr on Feb 10, 2015 13:29:24 GMT -8
I believe you're referring to a William Kratville piece called "Monarchs of The West" published in Kalmbach's Steam Glory circa 2004. It outlined the 1942 & 1945 proposals for the #845-#870 Class FEF-4 "Super 800's".
Another good source of info on the stillborn "Supers" is Kratville and Ranks' Union Pacific Locomotives, Volume 1 published by Barnhardt Press in 1960.
The FEF-4's were to have either Caprotti or Poppet valve gear, improved all-weather cabs, increased sand capacity, four stacks for improved high speed steaming, larger tenders, sealed beam headlamps, and improved "French Style" smoke deflectors from the factory.
They would have been impressive beasts indeed, but EMD's Covered Wagons had made enough inroads to put the post-war 800's into the external catagory of "what might have been".
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Post by jaygee on Feb 10, 2015 17:27:02 GMT -8
Problem with steam is only about 10% performance...the other 90% is what really kills it in the finance categories. EMD used to say that Diesel power did twice the work of steam at half the cost. That may have been true in 1935, but by 1955, it was more like ten times the work at one tenth the cost! Finally even N&W cracked....under a LOT of pressure from the Penn.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 11, 2015 6:38:13 GMT -8
Union Pacific is a big company and isn't exactly the Penn Central when it comes to finances. They may have well made some personnel decisions that have bitten the steam department in the butt. But, in the end, I'm sure the senior management at UP are well aware of the public, shipper and employee good will the three amigos(844, 3985 and 4014) bring to the railroad.
Even the NIMBY's(Not In My Back Yard) don't raise much of a fuss about the dirty, polluting and loud steam engines. For UP the steam program is the corporation's biggest public relations tool and one that has never grown old. UP's senior management is well aware that the program has ground to a halt and having its three good will ambassadors cold and silent isn't lost on management.
Just like the snow in Boston, this too shall pass.
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Post by jaygee on Feb 11, 2015 12:35:29 GMT -8
Actually my reply was a reference to operating steam power in everyday work related circumstances. The economics of using steam today fall into a massivly different kettle of fish! While the cost of operating a locomotive such as 844, 3985, or 4014 has to be impressive to say the least....it's a price the front office is willing to pay (on UP anyway) for the effects and good will generated. And so it has been since 1960. I can't imagine the powers that be would allow the current situation to go much further...and indeed, I gotta believe the beginning of the fix is in.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 13:01:33 GMT -8
Actually my reply was a reference to operating steam power in everyday work related circumstances. The economics of using steam today fall into a massivly different kettle of fish! While the cost of operating a locomotive such as 844, 3985, or 4014 has to be impressive to say the least....it's a price the front office is willing to pay (on UP anyway) for the effects and good will generated. And so it has been since 1960. I can't imagine the powers that be would allow the current situation to go much further...and indeed, I gotta believe the beginning of the fix is in. 95 percent of the population could care less about steam, diesel, whatever. They have Candy Crush, Nicki Minaj, and the Bruce Jenner saga to focus on. I think the goodwill aspect of steam is much less than it was a generation ago. |
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hhr
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Post by hhr on Feb 11, 2015 14:48:03 GMT -8
I humbly disagree omaharoad, at least in relation to the percentage of the general population who finds steam irrelevant. Yes there are folks who would be hard pressed telling the difference between 844 and a cinder block(Or Justin Beiber from a cinder block..sorry to all of the cinder blocks I've just insulted), but for every generation that fades away, there's a new generation of steam-fans/railfans waiting in the wings.
Last September and October, Thomas the Tank Engine paid a visit to the NC Museum of Transportation just up the road from our home. We took our son up to "meet" Thomas, and the attendance was huge. It made up for all of the shortfalls incurred by the museum when the "Streamliners At Spencer" failed to be the economic kick in the tail that was expected.
Say what you might about HiT Entertainment and the profit making juggernaut riding on the back of that Cheeky Little Tank Engine. But my son can name every engine, every wheel arrangement, and any Fallen Flag railroad you can think of. And on my "layover days", you'll find me and Dusty planted in front of the TV at 1:30, singing along with Thomas' goofy theme song.
Back in the early 70's there were dire predictions of the end of steam excursions, the end of younger generations expressing an interest in railroading, the end of young people willing to learn the old crafts, and get dirty scraping rust.
But those predictions never came to pass, at the age of seven I was a permanent fixture at the Southern Railroad yard, sweeping floors and painting anything they pointed me at. Just to be near the railroad, just to hear the tales of "The Old Heads", just to be summoned up into the cab of 4501 by Mr. Claytor and have him show me how to run her.
And although I heeded the advice of one of those "Old Heads" to do good in school, get into college, and stay off the railroad because life on the Extra Board was a hard row to hoe. I still take every chance to take my son Dusty to the Amtrak Station in Kannapolis, just to sit there watching the parade of Amtrak, NS, and state owned cummuter trains pass by.
Whether he follows my footsteps onto the flight deck of an aircraft, or into the cab of the latest "Dash Something or SD", he's not going to be in a "lost generation" of railfans and modelers.
He's just a member of the latest generation to fall in love with trains, and when we're standing trackside watching 844 celebrate her 100th birthday in 2044, I know my grandson or granddaughter will be right there with us.
Beiber, Minaj, Kanye, Beyonce, and the rest will fade from the publc consciousness eventually. After all, when was the last time you heard about Tony Orlando & Dawn?
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Post by Spikre on Feb 11, 2015 15:20:00 GMT -8
NYS&WT&HS has run Thomas on the Bel-Del excursion line,it has always been very popular,and maybe a sellout some runs ? also have been running the "Dinosaur Train" and that has been popular also. so they are attracting a Young crowd for those trains. the Chinese Mike,#-142 has been popular also when it runs. being close to the Philly area seems to help. or a day trip from the NJ/NYC area doesn't hurt either. but Thomas does seem to be the "Star' when He shows up. Spikre 
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 15:29:57 GMT -8
I humbly disagree omaharoad, at least in relation to the percentage of the general population who finds steam irrelevant. Yes there are folks who would be hard pressed telling the difference between 844 and a cinder block(Or Justin Beiber from a cinder block..sorry to all of the cinder blocks I've just insulted), but for every generation that fades away, there's a new generation of steam-fans/railfans waiting in the wings. Last September and October, Thomas the Tank Engine paid a visit to the NC Museum of Transportation just up the road from our home. We took our son up to "meet" Thomas, and the attendance was huge. It made up for all of the shortfalls incurred by the museum when the " Streamliners At Spencer" failed to be the economic kick in the tail that was expected. Say what you might about HiT Entertainment and the profit making juggernaut riding on the back of that Cheeky Little Tank Engine. But my son can name every engine, every wheel arrangement, and any Fallen Flag railroad you can think of. And on my "layover days", you'll find me and Dusty planted in front of the TV at 1:30, singing along with Thomas' goofy theme song. Back in the early 70's there were dire predictions of the end of steam excursions, the end of younger generations expressing an interest in railroading, the end of young people willing to learn the old crafts, and get dirty scraping rust. But those predictions never came to pass, at the age of seven I was a permanent fixture at the Southern Railroad yard, sweeping floors and painting anything they pointed me at. Just to be near the railroad, just to hear the tales of "The Old Heads", just to be summoned up into the cab of 4501 by Mr. Claytor and have him show me how to run her. And although I heeded the advice of one of those "Old Heads" to do good in school, get into college, and stay off the railroad because life on the Extra Board was a hard row to hoe. I still take every chance to take my son Dusty to the Amtrak Station in Kannapolis, just to sit there watching the parade of Amtrak, NS, and state owned cummuter trains pass by. Whether he follows my footsteps onto the flight deck of an aircraft, or into the cab of the latest "Dash Something or SD", he's not going to be in a "lost generation" of railfans and modelers. He's just a member of the latest generation to fall in love with trains, and when we're standing trackside watching 844 celebrate her 100th birthday in 2044, I know my grandson or granddaughter will be right there with us. Beiber, Minaj, Kanye, Beyonce, and the rest will fade from the publc consciousness eventually. After all, when was the last time you heard about Tony Orlando & Dawn? Almost no steam locos operate in California, yet I'm sure UPRR's bottom line is not seriously impacted by the absence of Big Steam out of L.A. We railfans see things thru smoke-filtered lenses. Big business and the people who make decisions on how to ship goods are not so easily impressed. If steam operations were that important, we'd see many more excursions and RR public relations operations. The railroads (accountants and executives included) apparently do not see things the same way, they are not ignorant. I bet at least 80 percent of all Americans (not just Thomas kids or railfans) think steam locos still operate, because they don't care to differentiate a FEF from a F40. Steam ops effectively ended two generations ago. This is the same reason airlines don't use biplanes and cruise lines don't use four-mast square-riggers in their marketing campaigns. (Well rarely) People just don't care, they just want their stuff on-time and cheap. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 17:43:57 GMT -8
I humbly disagree omaharoad, at least in relation to the percentage of the general population who finds steam irrelevant... I need to clarify my earlier comments on the lack of steam operations / irrelevant. I was refering primarily to railroad public relations operations as exemplified by UP and formerly by N&W. As for steam excursions & fan trips, the main reason those are nearly extinct is like always, costs. Liability and gov't regulations (air quality, OSHA, other safety, etc) have made it cost-prohibitive for organizations to sponsor steam trips. I suppose it's a chicken-and-egg situation. If there were more fan trips, people would be more familiar with steam locos, and railroads would be more comfortable with steam locos operating over their rails. And railroads would probably be more likely to see steam (and historic diesels) locos as a marketing / PR opportunity instead of a $MM lawsuit waiting to happen (film at 11). Bottom line, I think lawyers and regulators are more to blame for the lack of steam ops today than railroad marketing departments. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 11, 2015 18:16:52 GMT -8
I humbly disagree omaharoad, at least in relation to the percentage of the general population who finds steam irrelevant... I need to clarify my earlier comments on the lack of steam operations / irrelevant. I was refering primarily to railroad public relations operations as exemplified by UP and formerly by N&W. As for steam excursions & fan trips, the main reason those are nearly extinct is like always, costs. Liability and gov't regulations (air quality, OSHA, other safety, etc) have made it cost-prohibitive for organizations to sponsor steam trips. I suppose it's a chicken-and-egg situation. If there were more fan trips, people would be more familiar with steam locos, and railroads would be more comfortable with steam locos operating over their rails. And railroads would probably be more likely to see steam (and historic diesels) locos as a marketing / PR opportunity instead of a $MM lawsuit waiting to happen (film at 11). Bottom line, I think lawyers and regulators are more to blame for the lack of steam ops today than railroad marketing departments. I would say this thread is symbolic the disconnect between rail fans and reality. Even for a giant like Union Pacific, the cost of maintaining the steam trio, the E9's, Centennial and its passenger car fleet is millions and millions of dollars. I'm sure the west coast dock slow down has UP senior management more concerned than the status of 844. 844, 3985, 4014, the E9's and Centennial are luxuries for the UP. UP could say to heck with it all, clean out Cheyenne and never look back. Good thing Louis W. Menk has passed away. If he'd been in charge at UP, 844 would be sitting in a park or scrapped. Menk put the brakes on the CB&Q's steam excursions in the 1960's as costing too much money, for the benefit received. |
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hhr
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Post by hhr on Feb 12, 2015 1:38:22 GMT -8
Oh, there is no argument that the cost of UP's Heritage Fleet and Steam Program is not cheap, but quantifying the cost vs. goodwill vs. public relations benefits is best left to the bean counters.
If UP didn't believe in the benefits of the aforementioned programs, they'd be scaled back, or dumped. But, you have a company that is making an effort to keep its past alive, while also meeting the needs of a dynamic marketplace and demanding shippers.
Equating the late, and possibly shortsighted, Louis Menk with the world of today's railroading is a stretch. The loss of CB&Q 05-A 5632 was a tragedy, but it wasn't the only serviceable steam locomotive lost to a questionable management decision.
As to California's draconian environmental regulations, well they did in the possibility of any coal fired locomotives ever polishing the rails of the Golden State again. Which is why UP is converting 4014 to oil firing, and it'll take some doing, just as it did when 3985 was converted to oil firing.
And yes, liability issues will always be the elephant in the room, the end of NS's steam program in the 90's was driven by liability concerns...and myopic management. But 611 is on track to be under steam again this year, and back on NS rails, so you can never say "never". Remember that when 611 and 1218 were parked, they were "retired for good", and while we may never see 1218 run again...having 611 polishing the rails once more is a "win, win" for everyone involved.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 12, 2015 6:27:29 GMT -8
Oh, there is no argument that the cost of UP's Heritage Fleet and Steam Program is not cheap, but quantifying the cost vs. goodwill vs. public relations benefits is best left to the bean counters. If UP didn't believe in the benefits of the aforementioned programs, they'd be scaled back, or dumped. But, you have a company that is making an effort to keep its past alive, while also meeting the needs of a dynamic marketplace and demanding shippers. Equating the late, and possibly shortsighted, Louis Menk with the world of today's railroading is a stretch. The loss of CB&Q 05-A 5632 was a tragedy, but it wasn't the only serviceable steam locomotive lost to a questionable management decision. As to California's draconian environmental regulations, well they did in the possibility of any coal fired locomotives ever polishing the rails of the Golden State again. Which is why UP is converting 4014 to oil firing, and it'll take some doing, just as it did when 3985 was converted to oil firing. And yes, liability issues will always be the elephant in the room, the end of NS's steam program in the 90's was driven by liability concerns...and myopic management. But 611 is on track to be under steam again this year, and back on NS rails, so you can never say "never". Remember that when 611 and 1218 were parked, they were "retired for good", and while we may never see 1218 run again...having 611 polishing the rails once more is a "win, win" for everyone involved. The big reason NS put 611 and 1218 up on blocks was the train behind 611 that ended up in the swamp. Good thing it was only employees that fateful day. Sure, NS made mistakes by not insisting that everything has tightlock couplers. If that train would have had tightlocks the end result, may or wouldn't have been so bad. BNSF may have the right idea about steam. Let someone else own the locomotive, support cars and lease privately owned cars. BNSF has regularly used Milwaukee Road S-3 261 along with leased PV's to haul its employees and for excursions. Northstar Rail who owns 261 or leases 261 does all the work and incurs all the expense during routine maintenance and rebuilding. BNSF more or less lets them have a place to play and chips in a few bucks on the leases. When the Illinois Railway Museum had the E5 and the Nebraska Zephyr excursion a few years ago, it was a joint effort between IRM(train owner), BNSF(track owner) and Amtrak(who operated the train). It was the first time since the mid-1960's that the E5 and NZ were in Chicago Union Station. BN and now BNSF, UP and others have made ample use of IRM's CNW EMD F7A #411, CB&Q E5A #9911A, Q Nebraska Zephyr, Q SW7 #9255 and IRM's ex-BN GE U30C 5383 and IRM's former ICG caboose have been used to haul steam engines from places like Texas to IRM. Now IRM has a former SSW/UP GE B30-7 which can become the ferry locomotive. Like 261, IRM owns and does much of maintaining on its excursion locomotive fleet. UP and BNSF do assist IRM in some of the technicalities/legalities and in jobs IRM does not have the equipment, like turning wheels. If UP needs a steam engine, former UP 2-8-0 #428 at IRM is nearly complete and ready for service.  |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 12, 2015 6:58:11 GMT -8
While I understand, US liability law has protected a lot of people, we still need Tort reform to bring in some common sense to a rather litigious environment. But I guess it's the wolves guarding the henhouse with lawyers keeping the status quo because it is self serving. Since I've married a Brit, I've noticed the UK seems to be on the other end of the pendulum, their legal system has so little teeth that there is little incentive to reform many elements in their system, particularly the NHS and criminal parts - for them it's the soft pillow or the comfy chair (to borrow from Monty Python). Anyway, this all relates to the steam programs and excursions in general because this issue has crippled most of them and ended some.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 12, 2015 7:45:00 GMT -8
While I understand, US liability law has protected a lot of people, we still need Tort reform to bring in some common sense to a rather litigious environment. But I guess it's the wolves guarding the henhouse with lawyers keeping the status quo because it is self serving. Since I've married a Brit, I've noticed the UK seems to be on the other end of the pendulum, their legal system has so little teeth that there is little incentive to reform many elements in their system, particularly the NHS and criminal parts - for them it's the soft pillow or the comfy chair (to borrow from Monty Python). Anyway, this all relates to the steam programs and excursions in general because this issue has crippled most of them and ended some. While liability is a major concern and expense, the environmental, maintenance, cost of rebuilding and wages for the people in charge of these steam/excursion programs is also tremendous. In the 1980's the private rail car ownership, dinner trains and excursion trains were hot. People with money and some with not much were jumping into these fields. As the 90's wore on more dropped by the wayside as the boom began to turn to bust as the general public tired of choo-choos. In the private varnish sector only a few of the original owners from that period still operate their cars. Of those owners, all have made excellent business choices when it comes to their investment(PV). These people are very smart and capable in the world of business and don't let their love of trains cloud their judgement when it comes to operating their PV's, which is why they are still in the game. This is the trouble with rail fans and why most railroads will not hire rail fans. They think with their hearts and not their heads. Railroading is tough, physical, dirty and many times boring work. There is a lot that goes into making that train move down the track and this where rail fans don't get it. Same holds true of those heady days in the 80's when passenger cars went from scrap value to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Nearly or all of the firms that were started to serve the private rail car owner in the 80's are like the owners of the cars.....out of the railroad business. To make a car Amtrak certified, it realistically takes a few hundred thousand, depending on the condition of the car when rebuilding begins. Most or all class one railroads don't want ANYTHING TO DO WITH MOVING passenger cars. Passenger cars are a pain in the back side of the railroads, due to special handling. Having your car pulled by Amtrak isn't cheap either. It takes money to make money. On these mainline excursions, most of the cars are now required to be Amtrak certified. This is for safety. If a car is certified to able to scoot at 100 mph behind an Amtrak train, that car is in good mechanical condition. UP is no different than the private car owners. It costs a lot of money to operate these cars and locomotives and sometimes you need to make tough decisions. Sometimes things happen that shouldn't happen. In the end its going to cost money to straighten things out. In many instances it takes time to sort everything out so mistakes are not repeated in the future. Again, rail fans fail to realize all the money and behind scenes moves it takes to run these programs. |
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Post by valenciajim on Jun 4, 2015 17:46:07 GMT -8
I am attending the NMRA Rocky Mountain Region Convention and today we went on a tour of the Union Pacific steam facilities in Cheyenne. All I can say is "Wow." It was very impressive. Ed (the guy who mentioned earlier in this thread) was our tour guide.
Apparently the last time UP serviced 844, they took some shortcuts which led to the current servicing occurring sooner than expected. Once they got into the situation, they concluded that the servicing had to be more substantial that was originally expected. UP is trying to coordinate all of their steam engine maintenance to make it as efficient as possible. They are also trying to be as thorough as possible so that the locomotives will not have to be serviced as often. They had several people working there who all were very friendly and made a point of saying how happy they were to work there. Yes, they have a boilermaker.
844 was being worked on while we were there and UP is cautiously optimistic that they will have the work completed by the end of this year, which means that 844 should be running next year.
All of the resources are currently being applied to 844, so 4014 has been back burnered until 844 is completed. They also are doing things in connection with 844 that will result in synergies on the rehab of 4014. Ed told me that the goal is to get 4014 operational by 2019. Given their experiences with 844, UP has decided to be more thorough with 4014 and has found that 4014 needs more work than they had hoped for.
Locomotive 3985 also needs work, which presumably will start after 4014 is completed. 3985 is sitting in the Cheyenne roundhouse next to locomotive 5511, which also will be restored someday. Diesel locomotive 6936 was also in the roundhouse next to 5511.
All in all, it was a very enjoyable day and it appears that UP is committed to continuing steam excursions.
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Post by Spikre on Jun 5, 2015 8:29:18 GMT -8
Thanks for the Up-Date Jim !! what sort of loco is the 5511 ? Spikre
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Post by mrsocal on Jun 5, 2015 9:52:10 GMT -8
Thank you Jim for this front line report.
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Post by valenciajim on Jun 5, 2015 10:32:46 GMT -8
5511 is a 2-10-4, I am not sure about the 2 or the four, but I know the 10 is correct. It somehow avoided the scrap heap.
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Post by dti406 on Jun 5, 2015 10:48:14 GMT -8
#5511 is a 2-10-2
Rick J
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Post by Spikre on Jun 5, 2015 12:03:13 GMT -8
thanks for the info Rick. too bad U.P. didn't save a 4-10-2. U.P. never seemed interested in 2-10-4s,guess the Challengers were the reason ? Edit-- thanks for the info on the U.P. 4-12-2,almost makes a trip to California worth while to see the 3 cylinder monster ! Spikre
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 13:42:32 GMT -8
thanks for the info Rick. too bad U.P. didn't save a 4-10-2,or a 4-12-2. U.P. never seemed interested in 2-10-4s,guess the Challengers were the reason ? Spikre UP 4-12-2 9000 is at the RLHS museum at the Los Angeles County fairgrounds in POmona, CA. Same place the 4014 was displayed. Among the collection, they also have SP 3-cylinder 4-10-2 5021. |
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Post by WP 257 on Jun 5, 2015 19:16:03 GMT -8
Spikre--
Not only did UP save a 4-12-2, they saved the first one and gave it at least a minor shopping before sending it off. It steamed over Cajon Pass, where they were not normally used due to curvature, at a walk, with people on the ground making sure there were no issues (it did have a minor derailment near Summit but backed onto the rails and continued onward), all the way to the museum under it's own power. It has only ever moved a few hundred feet (not under its own power) since then. Allegedly it has been exceptionally well cared for in the years since; the wheels and rods are "free" and it is very capable of running again.
The only issue is the UP style maintenance pits typically used for accessing the third cylinder, for routine maintenance, are long gone, and maintenance of such a loco would be a challenge.
However, UP 9000 remains "intact" and allegedly capable of running again with only "minimal" work.
John
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