|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 11, 2015 21:40:34 GMT -8
There is mentioned in the Walthers RBOX discussion the idea that equipment taken to clubs must be "bulletproof". At least, at some clubs.
Why is that?
I don't doubt the possibility that there are people who are clueless or oafish enough to inspire that. But why tolerate it?
Perhaps the club needs the money. So the membership tolerates the oafish behavior. But is that healthy? Perhaps the oafs could be corrected. Do they really WANT to be oafish? Perhaps they need friendly persuasion. Or, perhaps they need expulsion. After a few months, they could perhaps beg to be readmitted.
I am really at a loss why anyone would tolerate such selfish thoughtless behavior.
I am in a Freemo group. When there is a setup, and you damage someone's equipment, you are in deep doo. Someone (un-named) has even chosen to "borrow" my throttle without asking. THEY are in shallow doo. 'Cause I like them. I've NEVER seen equipment damaged in a setup. Yet. You don't even clean someone else's track without permission.
I was in a "regular" club, back in the day. President, actually. One of the guys did a brave but stupid move and pulled several of my cars (NOT RTR) down onto the floor. Oh, my god. The chill that went through the room. Oh, yeah, lots of groveling. As there should have been. I've sorta forgiven. I haven't forgot. Pat. That would be the guy whose first words were "I'll fix it." See: "sorta forgiven". Perhaps I should revisit that.
When I have touched other people's equipment, it has been with the realization that I was COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE for any damage. I never damaged anyone's equipment. Even the thought of doing so riles my insides--it would ruin my day. And the next. And the next. Yeah, I take it seriously. DOESN'T EVERYONE?
I really want to hear why people tolerate brain-dead Godzilla fisted members.
And, in the spirit of today's world, I want to apologize for calling anyone brain-dead Godzilla fisted members. No, really. I do. So, if my description applies to you, please let me know; and you will receive the apology you deserve.
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by Judge Doom on Mar 12, 2015 1:00:50 GMT -8
In the effort to be all-encompassing and all-welcoming, I suppose some groups tolerate those who might like to manhandle models, or pick them up with little regard to damaging fine bits, to avoid rocking the boat and making everyone feel welcome. Some basic model handling rules would probably go a long way in creating an understanding that you need to be careful when handling someone elses' stuff.
I'm not involved in any clubs at the moment, but know the dynamic that can come into play sometimes. When I show models (some of them custom built) to some people, I often hand it to them if I trust them with it. "Here, have a look". Some will just look at it in my hand and really not want to touch or hold it lest they accidentally damage it. I'm careful to point out if the fuel tank is loose, or if the shell isn't screwed on. Over time I've learned, not just with model trains but with everything, certain people are not to be handed or trusted with fragile things. Mean? Probably, but it keeps me from having to fix my stuff.
I've never had any problems mangling any model when handling it, no matter how fine or fragile the details. Carefully pick it up by the fuel tank in a claw-like way and use the other hand underneath for a heavy model, or if not possible, lift it carefully by the long hood (making sure your hands aren't all greasy from eating chips or anything). Watch out for grabbing it in places details that might get broken are. Usually the same for most freight cars.
Then you've got what can be termed the club hard@sses, "I'll handle them however the hell I want to handle them! I pay club fees just like you do, who are you to tell me how to handle models?!"
|
|
|
|
Post by bnsf971 on Mar 12, 2015 2:46:14 GMT -8
In our club, nobody is supposed to touch another club member's stuff without permission. If a train belonging to someone else needs to be moved, it is moved with an engineer and conductor, the conductor to verify nothing gets damaged.
If you leave a switch open, and somebody else's train goes on the floor, you are responsible for damage. One of our club members that was there in the beginning, since 1973 has left the club after several episodes of leaving a train unattended, and ramming other trains.
In fact, our layout is in the process of being reconstructed because the trackwork is causing trains to be damaged by simply operating them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Mar 12, 2015 2:59:34 GMT -8
First I fully agree with the Judge's reply.
Then you might have a member that drips 91% alcohol all over then place while cleaning track and I have Athearn 4 BB engines,one RTR engine and three BB freight cars that proves that with little spots of missing paint.Others clean track and never get alcohol on any thing other then the cleaning rag and tops of the rail.
So,as I mention there's no way would I take any of my high end cars or locomotives to the club during any open house unless Mr. Alcohol rain storm quits.
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Mar 12, 2015 3:27:04 GMT -8
Welcome to the real world. My wife and I encounter people in daily life who basically act clueless, selfish and thoughtless on an ongoing basis. She comes from England and is flabbergasted by it, and to be honest, it does seem worse where I live now than any other place or time in my life. The way people drive, behave in public, in stores ... the lady my wife worked for was the ultimate "me monster" and was corrosively selfish around everyone, including her husband, daughter, relatives, therapists ...
Anyway, clubs are a microcosm of the world around us and social by nature. Like anything else, you would need to have a strong leader to set the tone for how things are done, including how models are handled - if that isn't done, you have to get lucky. I have myself been recently involved with a modular group - and for the most part a decent bunch of guys. But bottom line, if I want to minimize the risk of broken models, I will need to handle them myself as much as possible, and yes, don't bring the expensive detailed HQ models at all.
No environment is 100% risk free, but you can take steps to avoid problems as much as possible because no matter how much you complain or grumble, what is the old saying, there's one in every crowd. One of the guys in the modular group has made no bones about what he brings - in expensive bullet proof trains. In some ways, I feel, if that's all you can operate, it seems to take a lot of the incentive out of participating.
Anyway, to your question "why tolerate it". I guess for many people who don't have a layout, it's a club or maybe a test track on the living room floor? That's why people tolerate it - sometimes it's that or nothing. But yes, if it's a real problem, you don't have to tolerate it and if members won't cooperate or there isn't a strong leader who can impose strict standards, as always, you can vote with your feet. Problem solved.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Mar 12, 2015 4:09:11 GMT -8
In some ways, I feel, if that's all you can operate, it seems to take a lot of the incentive out of participating.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jim,As a observational thought..Guys that risk bringing high dollar cars and engines to a club I have often wondered if its a ego trip or do they truly wish to operate their high dollar models? I know of one club whose members race to see who will be the first to bring the newest Genesis,MTH,BLI or Atlas Master locomotive to the club..Other then that a nicer group of modelers you will never meet.Great guys all.
Make no mistake.. I feel a club must put forth their best efforts during public shows like engines and cabooses with all their handrails,no missing steps on freight cars,running trains at scale speeds etc..
|
|
|
|
Post by bnsf971 on Mar 12, 2015 5:04:29 GMT -8
For open houses, I run stuff that looks good and is inexpensive. Thanks to another forum member here, I now have a paur of Intermountain SD40's to pull a unit coal train of the Walthers/Proto Bethgons. Basic, inexpensive stuff that still looks good from 3 feet away.
For regular operations, I do use better stuff.
We use each member's talents to thw club's advantage. One guy is a master structure builder, so he makes all our buildings. He can't run a train mkre than 5 feet without a disaster, though.
Another member is very good at painting, so that is what he does.
We have a dispatching specialist, as well.
I do the decoder installs, and another guy specializes in care and feeding of the rolling stock.
In all, except for the previously mentioned "crash test dummy", it is a pretty good mix, where people do what they are good at.
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Mar 12, 2015 7:30:17 GMT -8
This thread reminds me how much I hate clubs. Too many bad experiences. I'd rather not run trains than put up with the drama and risk of running in any of the club settings I've been part of in the past.
I don't have bulletproof equipment. Nearly everything I own is something I've scratchbuilt, kitbashed, custom painted or at least weathered. So there's no way for me to run equipment that I'd be comfortable with getting damaged.
Oafs exist regardless of class or some arbitrary financial line. I've met some with enough money to cover the damage they leave in their wake and others with so little they have a difficult time coming up with the rent each month. They may be out there, but I have yet to find an oaf who is also a prototype modeler. So my solution is to hang out with prototype modelers and build Free-mo modules.
|
|
|
|
Post by peoriaman on Mar 12, 2015 7:44:04 GMT -8
...others with so little they have a difficult time coming up with the rent each month. This. They never cause any damage but for some reason clubs seem to attract a certain number of individuals who spend all their money on trains yet they can't afford a car or insurance or clean clothes once in a while. We've had more than our share of members who smell like ammonia or sulphur or whose personality disorders necessitate asking me 35 times which NS Heritage engines I'm going to go look for tomorrow. It gets old. |
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Mar 12, 2015 7:48:08 GMT -8
...others with so little they have a difficult time coming up with the rent each month. This. They never cause any damage but for some reason clubs seem to attract a certain number of individuals who spend all their money on trains yet they can't afford a car or insurance or clean clothes once in a while. We've had more than our share of members who smell like ammonia or sulphur or whose personality disorders necessitate asking me 35 times which NS Heritage engines I'm going to go look for tomorrow. It gets old. Wow. It's as if you've been there with me. Spooky... |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Mar 12, 2015 8:01:44 GMT -8
In some ways, I feel, if that's all you can operate, it seems to take a lot of the incentive out of participating. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jim,As a observational thought..Guys that risk bringing high dollar cars and engines to a club I have often wondered if its a ego trip or do they truly wish to operate their high dollar models? I know of one club whose members race to see who will be the first to bring the newest Genesis,MTH,BLI or Atlas Master locomotive to the club. One could say that about forums too, but I don't usually think someone is trying to one up anyone when they display their new prize, here or anywhere else. Anyway, the context of the comment I made (above) was regarding a modular club member who runs like a Walthers Trainman engine and some really old Athearn blue box or similar cars. My feeling is, hey, I've spend years collecting trains and wanted to "actually" run some of them, but then the topic comes up, where you need to go out and buy a separate set of trains just to run on the modules - by separate set I mean an Athearn blue box loco and a bunch of cheap old school Athearn cars, etc. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with old Athearn, MDC, Accurail stuff - but it's like, just get some old crap to run there because it's no big deal if something gets damaged. What about the cool stuff that you carefully bought because it actually matches the real thing? Anyway, that's just some thoughts that occurred to me; not everyone there does that, some were running nice Walthers El Capitan, BLI Daylight and CZ passenger trains etc. Stuff that cost some major money. Club yes, but the modular clubs around here - there doesn't seem to be a "best effort" thing necessarily - it's more just go have fun and run trains - and no worring about gee are all the parts on the rolling stock or are we running at prototypical speeds. That's not a big deal here although I know many real/fixed layout clubs do operate that way, which is great. |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Mar 12, 2015 8:08:32 GMT -8
This thread reminds me how much I hate clubs. Too many bad experiences. I'd rather not run trains than put up with the drama and risk of running in any of the club settings I've been part of in the past. Clubs exist because many people don't have a place to run trains - otherwise why would they exist? Ok in some cases there are really big awesome clubs but many are a necessity for some folks. In an ideal world, we would all have houses with giant basements and clubs would be very rare. |
|
|
|
Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 12, 2015 8:18:24 GMT -8
I belonged to one club back in the 1980's, yes I'm old. It had extreme standards and extreme prototype modelers. Many of the members had their work published in magazines like Mainline Modeler, MR, RMC, etc. Most members were active and held office in railroad historical societies. We ran on code 70 track from Shinohara. The layout was modular and went to various shows. At a show, the layout looked like a brass model catalog. Tens of thousands of dollars of brass operating at a show. On a whole the group was very upstanding. Then you had the one member who, my best friend - also a member - described as a cross between a bridge troll and a hedgehog.....
His brother is a very talented modeler, with multiple published articles to his name. But the younger brother only knows one speed to run the choo choo.....BALLS OUT. Holy smokes when this person is running...get your stuff off the layout for its own good. The group videotaped one show and here comes the out of control passenger train.....another train(owned by another member) was slightly fouling a switch. The "hand of God" came out from the audience and safely nudged the fouling train out of the way as the out of control passenger barreled past at about a scale 100 mph. Some of us old members still remember that tape and chuckle.
I've been to numerous NMRA divisional and regional meets. To 99% of the people that go to the clinics, contests and layout tours they keep their meat hooks in their pockets and maybe point to something if asking a question of the builder. Then you got the 1%, maybe its a higher number, that have absolutely no regard for someone's hard work. You'd like to smack these chowder heads with a hammer, but their heads are so hard you'd probably break the poor hammer.
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Mar 12, 2015 8:46:35 GMT -8
This thread reminds me how much I hate clubs. Too many bad experiences. I'd rather not run trains than put up with the drama and risk of running in any of the club settings I've been part of in the past. Clubs exist because many people don't have a place to run trains - otherwise why would they exist? Ok in some cases there are really big awesome clubs but many are a necessity for some folks. In an ideal world, we would all have houses with giant basements and clubs would be very rare. Oh, I get that. It's going to be a compromise. But the days of me being involved in one are over. Again, I'd rather have my trains sit idle than to put up with another club. My experiences were that bad. It's apparently too difficult to find people who have the same mindset as me vis a vis detailed models and who are also interested in a quasi-permanent place to play. At my last club there were two people out of the bunch who I could count on to handle my models carefully. Two! That's just too much risk for the reward. For some reason I haven't encountered the same risk level at temporary Free-mo setups. And the vast majority of the people I've set up with are focused on a particular prototype, are careful and disciplined operators and are good modelers. The guys locally I plan and build and set up Free-mo modules with are all this sort of modeler, but we aren't a large enough group (in number or financially speaking) to rent a space big enough to set up a usable layout. |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Mar 12, 2015 8:49:22 GMT -8
His brother is a very talented modeler, with multiple published articles to his name. But the younger brother only knows one speed to run the choo choo.....BALLS OUT. Holy smokes when this person is running...get your stuff off the layout for its own good. The group videotaped one show and here comes the out of control passenger train.....another train(owned by another member) was slightly fouling a switch. The "hand of God" came out from the audience and safely nudged the fouling train out of the way as the out of control passenger barreled past at about a scale 100 mph. There was a guy running an Amtrak train like that at the modular show recently; he didn't seem to be paying attention to the track ahead much. That train was heading for the back end of my mostly MDC/Accurail/Walthers freight train and when it got within a couple feet of the back it was obvious I was going to get rammed - I don't even think the driver could see it anyway. The "hand of god" came down and lifted that P42 Amtrak engine off the track and set it gently to the side until it's master could come tame it. Oh, I get that. It's going to be a compromise. But the days of me being involved in one are over. Again, I'd rather have my trains sit idle than to put up with another club. My experiences were that bad. It's apparently too difficult to find people who have the same mindset as me vis a vis detailed models and who are also interested in a quasi-permanent place to play. At my last club there were two people out of the bunch who I could count on to handle my models carefully. Two! That's just too much risk for the reward. For sure. During the past 30-40 years I've seen enough of the vagaries of clubs that I never got in as deep as you did, only some casual associations - and that was enough to instill in me a lack of desire actually get truly involved, being risk averse and all that. As you've noted, there are some groups out there who are careful and pretty serious too. Harry Wong associates have put together some shows and run some lovely SP and other western trains out in California for example. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cutler III on Mar 12, 2015 9:15:44 GMT -8
I am a 25-year member of a large (10,000 sq. ft., 70 members) model railroad club.
For starters, one should remember that these are just model trains and accidents will happen. Any layout should be built to prevent accidents and to help contain them when they do happen. If anything hits the floor while being operated, then that's the layout's fault. With DCC, runaways can happen, or someone asks you a question and you look away for a moment and you've plowed into someone. Or a switch gets thrown under a train. These things are going to happen, and when you put your stuff on the layout you better be prepared for that. If your models are such precious commodities that you fear damage from such routine accidents, then leave them at home.
To me, model trains damaged by accident are less important than friendships. And a club is a group of like-minded people united by our love of model trains. Throwing a hissy fit over a broken stirrup because of a simple derailment may be an indicator that you don't belong in a club.
At our club, if you leave your trains on the layout, that's tacit approval for anyone to use them.
All that being said, deliberate damage is unacceptable, just like outright theft.
In between you have "ham-fistedness" where it's not really an accident in handling but pure carelessness. Over the years, we've had a few of those guys in the club. They don't tend to last too long. Fortunately, they mostly seem to handle only their own stuff that way. The ones that do that to other's equipment on a routine basis usually results in a lot of nice equipment disappearing off the layout and the increasing isolation of the offender until they either change their behavior or quit. The old saw at our club is that when people "give you the business", you're really okay. It's when they ignore you that you know you're in trouble.
You are expected to make good on any non-accidental damage you cause. Either fix it or pay for it. Many times, the owner would rather fix it himself because the ham fisted member will make a hash of that, too...making it worse. There is no rule on that, however.
We do have rules and regulations, as well as operating rules. If someone constantly violate these, they will get a talking to by first our Chief Dispatcher/Operations Chairman, then our elected Chief Engineer (a member of our BOD). If rule violations continue to occur, or if there's a "I'll do what I want!" attitude, then that member would probably be confronted by first the BOD, then the entire membership at the next monthly business meeting. If the bad behavior doesn't stop, then we'd probably kick them out of the club. It's never happened, so I don't know for certain. Usually, the problem member quits in disgust that we dare criticize him long before it gets to the "kick out" stage. Only one member has ever been kicked out of our club, and that was for not only stealing about $50 in cash from the candy counter we have (run on the honor system), but also stealing multiple BLI steam locos (which were returned after the confrontation, but still...). If it wasn't for security cameras that can see in the dark, we'd probably never really know what happened.
|
|
|
|
Post by atsfan on Mar 12, 2015 9:39:06 GMT -8
This. They never cause any damage but for some reason clubs seem to attract a certain number of individuals who spend all their money on trains yet they can't afford a car or insurance or clean clothes once in a while. We've had more than our share of members who smell like ammonia or sulphur or whose personality disorders necessitate asking me 35 times which NS Heritage engines I'm going to go look for tomorrow. It gets old. Wow. It's as if you've been there with me. Spooky... Lots of ADD, ADHD, and OCD usually in most gatherings of Model Railroaders. Anyone foaming over rivets, or road numbers, or the like usually fit somewhere into the spectrum. And most clubs have at least one guy like this : |
|
hhr
New Member
Commercial Pilot
Posts: 34 
|
Post by hhr on Mar 12, 2015 12:07:46 GMT -8
Oh how this thread brought back the memories, some good, some funny, and some that still raise my blood pressure 28 years after my last club membership expired.
Our club was an offshoot of an NRHS Chapter that shall remain unnamed because it's still active, and some folks are still around from the late 70's and early to mid 80's.
Our "layout" and I'm being generous here, was two 4x8 sheets of plywood joined end to end on rudimentary benchwork located in an ex-PRR B-60 baggage car(Atlas Flex-Track, Athearn "Blue Box" everything, and so help me..Plasticville structures). Now a B-60 is a great place to either suffer heatstroke in the Summer, or lose fingers to frostbite in the Winter, unless you were lucky enough to "find" a section of the floor too rotten to support your 400lb bulk. Luckily Mr. X was uninjured, although we could all do variations on his cries of "Help its got me!!" when he was sticking out of the floor supported by his armpits.
I guess the "Oaf" in our case was the Chapter President who hosted an annual meeting at his farm, it became known as the "Parade of The Price Tags". This gentleman, long deceased, modeled in two rail O-Scale and he bought only brass. Engines, rolling stock, structures, it was a sea of brass everywhere you looked. He bought almost all of his equipment at the same hobbyshop, where they tied little price tags on their brass, and he left them on to remind everyone that he could afford to drop $1,200 in 1980's cash on a single locomotive.
And as the parade started, he'd announce in stentorian tones "that this is my new M-1a, a mere bargain at $1,350", and so forth. Some members turned green with envy, some saw the "Parade" just once and we never saw them again, and I fell into the crowd who just filed it away as a case of "more money than brains".
As far as the club layout in the B-60, it survived a year before the need for Tetanus booster shots, and the wild temperature variations and water leaks turned the plywood sheets into buckled sagging firewood.
Ah, the good 'ole days.
|
|
|
|
Post by WP 257 on Mar 12, 2015 14:08:46 GMT -8
Well, I once was a member of a small informal club of brass fans. We called it the "lodge" and met in the attic of a large, historic Victorian mansion that the one guy was rehabilitating, in Muncy, PA.
We had a lot of fun, but a few brass freight cars did hit the floor one time. Thankfully it wasn't my fault.
However, when I approached other clubs (excepting the Penn State University Model RR Club, of which I once was a member while a student at main campus) some of the people were a bit difficult to get along with, whether oafish or not, some just...didn't make we want to join. So I've never joined an official club since my PSU days.
John
|
|
|
|
Post by bnsf971 on Mar 12, 2015 17:32:46 GMT -8
Well, I once was a member of a small informal club of brass fans. We called it the "lodge" and met in the attic of a large, historic Victorian mansion that the one guy was rehabilitating, in Muncy, PA. John John, was that before or after Agnes? |
|
|
|
Post by WP 257 on Mar 12, 2015 19:34:33 GMT -8
Hello bnsf971--
Many years after Agnes, though that surviving mansion was flooded again just a couple years ago--but my friend no longer lived there at the time.
John
|
|
|
|
Post by fmilhaupt on Mar 13, 2015 5:40:06 GMT -8
One of the better things that my former modular club did early on was to define a process for removing members who have reached the point where they are frequently seriously interfering with the other members' enjoyment of the club, or are putting the club into disrepute or at risk. It is a lengthy process, partially designed that way to give the offender absolutely no excuse for not understanding what behavior we felt was unacceptable, and why.
The reasons were twofold: First, having a formal process and sticking to it afforded us some legal cover, should things go very badly. Secondly, it made the process far less likely to be used in anything but cases where a member was a genuine problem-- it couldn't be used to settle petty squabbles that grown-ups should be able to address reasonably.
In the twenty years I was a member, we had to initiate the process twice. In both cases, the members saw the writing on the wall and left the club before it could be completed.
Over the years, I've concluded that when it comes to having a detailed layout using detailed models, the most satisfying results have been from being involved with privately-owned layouts run as a benevolent dictatorship. In those cases, the vision for the layout and the expectations of the operators are very clear.
Of course, in the case of one layout 100 miles west of me, the regulars would all agree that the dictatorship is in no way benevolent, but people regularly drive three to four hours to attend his operating sessions, and most of us put in considerable effort to help him convert to DCC very rapidly a few years ago when his ancient CTC-80 system was failing...
|
|
|
|
Post by curtmc on Mar 15, 2015 11:00:03 GMT -8
Welcome to Northern Virginia where that seems to be directly proportional to how close you live to DC... The more liberal, and more egotistic, do tend to feel more entitled and less worried about how much their bad/selfish acts affect others...
BINGO!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by WP 257 on Mar 16, 2015 9:15:44 GMT -8
Why not just try to find even a couple guys, say 2 or 3, who are like minded in their interests, or who will all tolerate, good-naturedly, each other's rail interests, and just hang with them...form a private little train club, step away from the keyboard, and run some trains or help with the layout scenery?
Big layouts are nice, but not everyone has access to same.
I had a ball, during my 20's and 30's with a small "club". We routinely had visitors in, too, including J.P. Barger of Reboxx and various other folks--whoever wanted to come over and run some (at that time mostly brass) trains.
John
P.S. I'm looking for a few relatively sane modelers in the Greater Harrisburg, PA, area. And Allentown/Reading might not be that far away, for once in awhile...I have diverse rail tastes, everything from pre-Conrail to 1970's/'80's Santa Fe; steam power is ok too, especially the big mamajamas.
|
|
|
|
Post by umtrrauthor on Mar 16, 2015 17:23:51 GMT -8
Back in the day when I was part of an N-Trak club, and malls let you display for free some weekends (imagine that!) one oaf who never showed up for set up and was always gone well before takedown would physically remove other people's equipment and put it where-ever, and then plop his own prize possessions on the layout. "Need room in the yard," he would bellow.
I lasted in that club longer than I should have. When I return from what is supposed to be a fun evening out more aggravated than when I left, it's time to move on. I did.
|
|
|
|
Post by gevohogger on Mar 16, 2015 17:32:14 GMT -8
Been in a few clubs.... Its hard to put down roots, as a railroader. But there were a lot of good guys. Other railroaders, etc. And a few guys who I hoped I'd NEVER see show up for training as a new hire! Even though they used to ask. "We're not hiring!!"
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cutler III on Mar 17, 2015 12:01:06 GMT -8
With all this anti-club sentiment being expressed, I have to push back a bit. With my club, I've had some of the best experiences in this hobby and made some life-long friends. I've learned a lot from my fellow members about being a better modeler and how to work in groups successfully. I've been on some great railfan trips, backshop tours and vacations due to my club membership. I've been able to operate several full-size diesel locos (from an S-4 to a B23-7) and have gotten several cab rides with fellow members. I'm the Operations Chairman of a layout that's roughly 60' x 50' that runs 30+ trains in two hour sessions with up to 25 people. I'm also the Layout Design Chairman who was able to design and help build a engine, passenger and freight terminal that consists of a coach yard, passenger terminal, an arrival/departure yard, two freight yards, a turntable and a transfer table. I've managed to help out Athearn, Atlas, BLI, Microscale, True Line Trains and Rapido get NH products to market due to the contacts in my club. Even though I no longer have a layout, I'm able to run 100-car trains on our 40" radius curves & #10 switches if I want to. And since all members have 24/7 access to the club, I can do that any time I want. The club has a full wood shop (table saw, band saw, chop saw, drill press, planer, disk & belt sander, scroll saw, etc.) that members can use, and we're also in the process of building an enclosed paint booth in our model shop. We have a large library that has just about every national hobby magazine in it plus a few local ones...and then there's the book & movie collection as well, all of which can be checked out by any member. I once had a job as a laborer on a tourist line because I knew someone in the club.
I can also go and just hang out and talk trains with up to 70 different people who all have the same common interest in the hobby.
The point is that in a good club, there are far more benefits than problems.
|
|
|
|
Post by grahamline on Mar 17, 2015 13:34:19 GMT -8
Clubs can go either way -- great or miserable. I belong to a fairly small one that is active and very much operations oriented, and we have a long "apprenticeship" before someone can become a full member. Even with a clear understanding up front, there are a couple people who never show for an op session -- why did they join? Another guy persists in sneaking out-of-era rolling stock onto the layout -- what part of 1979 do they not understand? There's also the two-year member most of the members have never seen. He's been to maybe two business meetings, never shows up for a club project and allegedly comes down Sunday afternoon to run his trains around. Claims job duties keep him away.
|
|
|
|
Post by WP 257 on Mar 18, 2015 5:17:06 GMT -8
Paul, I completely agree that a good club offers more benefits than problems, but from what I have seen at the area open houses I have attended, I do not have a good club nearby. The one local club, in addition to not seeming to ever accomplish very much over a period of several years, has some policies that made it clearly evident I could not be a member there, so I would never waste my time there.
1. They had a lot of bickering over DCC, and after one new president came in, they threw out some long time members who actually did most of the layout work. I later worked with the individuals who were thrown out on a pastor's private layout, which was for outreach to neighborhood children. The guys thrown out of the club were great guys, knowledgeable and hard-working--they get things done.
2. They don't allow kids under age 12, which for me I would consider to be cutting your nose off despite your face. Contrary to some folks' opinions, there actually are responsible kids under 12 who would not damage someone's precious model train. (I could wait on customers in a store and actually be somewhat helpful by age 12).
John
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cutler III on Mar 18, 2015 7:29:26 GMT -8
John,
Our club is a total democracy where the majority of our 70 members controls the club with our monthly business meeting. We do have a Board of Directors (Pres., V. Pres., Treasurer, Secretary, Chief Engineer, and 4 Directors on alternating 2-year terms) to handle the day-to-day operation of the club and do things like pay the bills, but all other decisions are ratified by the members who approve the minutes of the BOD (and occasionally, that's been overruled). It's a bit cumbersome at times, but we feel that putting too much power in the hands of 1 or 2 (or 9) people is asking for trouble. The club members run the club, which is the way it ought to be. If I saw a club that was under the thumb of their president, I probably wouldn't last either.
When we moved in 1998, we formed a DCC working group to study DCC and pick the best system for us. We tried out Lenz and NCE, yet chose Digitrax. We then presented the results of our study to the members, and one of us made a motion to choose Digitrax for our new layout. It was seconded and we had a very long discussion about it. After moving the motion, we voted: 45 Yes, 5 No, 5 abstentions (we only had 60 members at the time, and we never get everyone to a meeting). Of the members that voted no, only 2 are still in the club (one moved away for work, one passed away, the other quit). The guys that abstained (it was a roll call vote) claim they had no opinion either way, and none of them really run trains either so it didn't matter to them. The point is that we researched it, debated it, and voted on it. No hard feelings resulted, just one guy that quit because he didn't want to change (or spend money).
We don't allow any members under the age of 18. However, any member can bring anyone they want to the club at any time, including their kids. They are responsible for them, not the club (or the other members). I was one such kid as I was 15 when my dad joined the club. I went every month to help operate our old DC layout as a "guest" of my dad. No one much minded.
When one is a member, you get the run of the place. Legally, the club wants to be protected against being held responsible in case of accident (say, with our wood shop tools), not just damage to equipment. And honestly, the biggest scare is any kind of scandal that would kill our club. Any accusation, real or imagined, that any member did anything wrong with a kid would probably result in an implosion of the club in short order. We're in a town-owned building, and they'd kick us out with 90 days notice (if we're lucky). It's just too big a risk to have unsupervised underage members. Kids can tag along with their family members or guardians all they want at the club, but we just can't put the future of the club up against letting kids join. And I speak as someone that was such a kid...25 years ago. Is it cutting off our nose? Maybe, but the risk of dying out is decades away while the risk of the town kicking us out is here and now.
|
|
