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Post by Spikre on Jul 28, 2015 14:49:07 GMT -8
only Kadee could have an assembled 40' PS-1 sell for about $1.00 less than the Kit version PS-1. but the list of previous cars is nice, did find 3 Erie 7' Door PS-1s,3 Susie Q 6' Door PS-1s,many NYC,D&H,B&M,Rutland, PS-1s. and the slight or great differences between some of the cars is interesting. seems they did slow down on the Foooooobie PS-1s. Spikre
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 16:41:24 GMT -8
There is a discussion of the Kadee ACF tank cars on the Steam Era Freight Cars Yahoo group. While they may look the same, they are of different prototype. The Atlas car has a different style under frame than Kadee's. Also, the prototypes were built at different times.
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Post by mlehman on Jul 28, 2015 16:42:54 GMT -8
only Kadee could have an assembled 40' PS-1 sell for about $1.00 less than the Kit version PS-1.SNIP Spikre, I haven't built any Kadee kits or even have them on the shelf awaiting, but I'd almost bet the reason the kit is a $1 more is because it probably comes with multiple choices on several parts. Maybe someone can confirm that? I'll take a peek over there and see what it says. I've got a bunch of PS-2 LOs, because I have a quarry and cement plant online. Not all are Kadee, but enough to make the rest look good by tricking the eye. I wasn't aware that Kadee did PS-1 foobies, but maybe a few slipped through simply due to popular demand?
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Post by mlehman on Jul 28, 2015 16:44:35 GMT -8
There is a discussion of the Kadee ACF tank cars on the Steam Era Freight Cars Yahoo group. While they may look the same, they are of different prototype. The Atlas car has a different style under frame than Kadee's. Also, the prototypes were built at different times. That's good to know. I suspected there was more than simple duplication going on. However, I'm not a tank car expert by any means.
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Post by Spikre on Jul 29, 2015 9:49:05 GMT -8
Kadee says the Tank car was built 1948,so maybe it is a Late TYPE-27 Tank,while Atlas are 1930s TYPE-27 Tanks ? looks very similar as far as the Tank is concerned. will look for the Journal article on these tanks,there may have been 2 different length tanks over the years? looks real close,does the Atlas tank have Wood Running Boards ? that may be a difference,but don't have any Atlas Tanks on hand to give a close look over. Mike, if You go thru all the Kadee lists they switched from the PS-1 Fooooobies to Open AAR Hopper Foooobies,even a PS-2 Foooooobie. so they still do Out Rite Foooooobies,just not as many PS-1s. so you do have PS-2s,that makes You 2 Body Styles ahead !! Spikre
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Post by sroc99 on Jul 30, 2015 7:40:42 GMT -8
Hello Group, I've been watching this forum about our new tank car and I thought I should make a few comments. Our tank car represents an A.C.F. 11,000 gallon "insulated" tank car. These cars were built from the late 1940s into the 1950s. There were a number of variations and our first car is built in 1948 and has a riveted underframe similar to a Type 27 underframe but it is not a Type 27 tank car, it representing the earlier variation. The Atlas car has the later welded underframe and other differences more or less representing the later variation.
I have some questions to ask Spikre about his statements about Kadee Foooobie cars. If you would contact me directly at mail@kadee.com I would appreciate it.
Sam Clarke R&D Kadee Quality Products
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Post by mlehman on Jul 30, 2015 8:24:48 GMT -8
Sam, Thanks for the insights into this new model.
I'm also curious about what's specifically itching Spikre here. For my primary modeling interests, Rio Grande and the Monon, AFAIK, no foobism involved with the many Kadee cars I've accumulated over the years. I do have some other Kadee cars from roads that I favor to fill out interline and overhead traffic that I didn't really always bother with deep research over, so can't say for sure that Spikre's wrong or right about them. I've found that Kadee gets things pretty darn close. Sometimes the bar for what qualifies for being a foobie is set impossibly low, though, so this can become a very subjective point of view that depends on specifically what's at issue.
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Post by scl1234 on Jul 30, 2015 8:37:51 GMT -8
Spikre being Spikre, he's probably referring to the Christmas version paint schemes or that 40' PS1 with all the example graphics.
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Post by mlehman on Jul 30, 2015 11:55:06 GMT -8
Spikre being Spikre, he's probably referring to the Christmas version paint schemes or that 40' PS1 with all the example graphics. You may be right. I don't buy them, but no one, least of all Kadee, pretends they represent a model of an actual piece of rolling stock...but maybe Spikre does?
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jul 30, 2015 17:43:18 GMT -8
I am not a buyer of any Kadee cars because they are all olden days era. But I am very glad that they keep the early era well covered just like Exactrail and BLMA keep the modern era well covered. Transition era is quickly fading away from the "Most popular era" and in about 5-15 years it will be the minority modeled era for sure. In the meantime the era is well covered by a few manufacturers which is great!
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Post by Spikre on Jul 30, 2015 17:44:22 GMT -8
Hi Sam, have no problems with 98% of cars that Kadee has done in roads that had them. but am reffering to the gaudy Kadee Christmas Cars and similar one offs as "Fooooooobies',because they are. Kadee hasn't bought a couple of used PS-1s lately?, if so then have missed that development. 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Cars: main objection here is the Odd Length Frame that doesn't lend itself to dropping other bodies on,as someday Kadee will run out of Schemes to do on the Tank body. Atlas seems to already have run into this problem with their version. but overall the cars are very similar,most wont notice the Underframe Construction differences. the cars look very similar to the Eyes here,but not a Tank car fan,Expert or mass purchaser.there were very few Tank Cars dropped off at the Ho-Ho-Kus Chemical Company,and they seemed to stop using rail service by the late 60s. there were other spots on EL that had more Tank Car traffic,but the area liked here wasn't one of them. so to the eyes here looking at catalog pictures there isn't much difference between the Kadee Tank car,or the Atlas Tankcars of 11,000 Gallons. of course tooling longer or shorter frames shouldn't be too difficult if Sales of this car are very good. will look for the stock #s of the fooooobies tomorrow. Spikre
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Post by atsfan on Jul 30, 2015 17:57:11 GMT -8
I have purchased some Kadee cars as gifts. They are all excellent. And made in the USA ! Personally i would love to see a Kadee car of a more modern prototype, but that is just me. Foobies? No spike. Commemorative Chrismas cars.
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Post by Spikre on Jul 30, 2015 18:24:57 GMT -8
atsfan, around these parts Commemorative cars based on Fantasy Artwork are Fooooooobies !! same as Fantasy Collectors cars. but cars based on Model Railroads do sneak by on occiasions. Spikre
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Post by theengineshed on Jul 30, 2015 18:53:58 GMT -8
around these parts Commemorative cars based on Fantasy Artwork are Fooooooobies !! Can't imagine anyone believing a Christmas car is a foobie, and if I put together a list of manufacturers that actually produce foobies, Kadee certainly wouldn't be on said list...
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Post by mlehman on Jul 30, 2015 23:07:07 GMT -8
OK, I guess I'll need to have an epistemological disagreement [that's one of those fancy $20 words they teach you at the Big U] with Spikre here. To me, a foobie involves something misrepresenting itself as an actual paint scheme applied to a car that isn't physically accurate for the prototype it represents. Since the cars you're concerned about do not represent themselves as anything other than a Kadee promotional item, Kadee actually buying and painting cars in those schemes to somehow justify the models in your eyes would paradoxically create foobies, when that's not their intent at all. Like I said earlier, they're not my cup of tea, but some find them handy for holiday displays or because they want to join in celebrating with Kadee their excellent products, made in the USA -- and 100% non-foobie as far as I can tell. YMMV Besides, it's the summertime. That hair shirt must be getting itchy. Loosen the collar, take it off, get some sun and Vitamin D, and live a little. You've been in the basement too long.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 31, 2015 3:58:19 GMT -8
Whoa whoa... stop it with those big words that we can't pronounce! That's why I told my professor in my geology department IU Bloomington "no stinking Phd. please" - I'm going to stop right here with the Master of Science degree and just be happy with that. I can't pronounce words that long!
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Post by sroc99 on Jul 31, 2015 9:51:27 GMT -8
Thanks guys for your comments and support. Apparently the term "foobie" means different things to different modelers. But to me and the majority of modelers "foobie" means putting an incorrect "railroad" paint scheme on the wrong prototype model. This was the basic standard marketing concept for quite a number of model manufacturers for a very long time. Specialty, collector, and commemorative non prototype paint schemes are not meant to represent a railroad scheme since there is no real "prototype correctness" to be achieved or to compare it to. "Spikre" needs to have a good long look at the ACF 11,000 gal insulated tank car's roster to see how many cars were produced and the many different paint schemes involved. We wouldn't produce a car unless it has the longevity of production numbers, cost recovery, and bottom line profit. He also needs to have an actual hands on comparison between our tank car and Atlas's. However, his modeling needs and desires, comments and opinions are his prerogative. Another point I should make here is that unlike other model manufacturers freight cars are not our "Primary Product" they are a secondary or sideline product. Also remember that our freight cars are completely and entirely made and assembled right in our own plant in Oregon, USA.
Sam Clarke R&D Kadee Quality Products
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Post by peoriaman on Jul 31, 2015 10:01:37 GMT -8
Spikre being Spikre, he's probably referring to the Christmas version paint schemes or that 40' PS1 with all the example graphics. Wow you called that one!
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Post by mlehman on Jul 31, 2015 11:03:18 GMT -8
Whoa whoa... stop it with those big words that we can't pronounce! That's why I told my professor in my geology department IU Bloomington "no stinking Phd. please" - I'm going to stop right here with the Master of Science degree and just be happy with that. I can't pronounce words that long! Heh, heh... Jim, No need to say it, you can just cut-and-paste into Google, add "define" and you're there I'm still looking forward to what Spikre has to say about it -- I can imagine him sitting in front of his computer with that word spelling out slowly, letter by letter, and trying different pronunciations, then coming up with something interesting to say and illustrate. Oh, and of course finding out what's up with his foobiephobia getting out of hand. Maybe it's the heat?
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Post by mlehman on Jul 31, 2015 11:09:01 GMT -8
Thanks guys for your comments and support. Apparently the term "foobie" means different things to different modelers...SNIP...remember that our freight cars are completely and entirely made and assembled right in our own plant in Oregon, USA. Sam Clarke R&D Kadee Quality Products Sam, You're on safe ground with me. I was puzzling over how to get to the bottom of Spikre's foobietrarianism because I just kind of remembered it not being an issue with Kadee...but I don't trust my memory too much these days.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 31, 2015 11:38:53 GMT -8
Heh, heh... Jim, No need to say it, you can just cut-and-paste into Google, add "define" and you're there I'm still looking forward to what Spikre has to say about it -- I can imagine him sitting in front of his computer with that word spelling out slowly, letter by letter, and trying different pronunciations, then coming up with something interesting to say and illustrate. Oh, and of course finding out what's up with his foobiephobia getting out of hand. Maybe it's the heat? I'll pretend I did and leave it at that! Now I know how my wife feels when I try to get intellectual with her. She is a Geordie from South Shields England - that'd be Newcastle to the rest of you and basically has no college education and when I try to get a little bit intellectual her standard reply is: "same te ye pal!!!" So I have an inkling of how you feel!
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Post by Spikre on Jul 31, 2015 11:43:25 GMT -8
Sam, don't think that there are as many Prototypes for the Kadee 11,000 gallon tank .if the underframe was replaced by welding in the 50s - Atlas Car- how long into the 60s did that version last ? not too long as Framless cars were starting to be built,and 11,000 gallons was starting to be considered a "Small" tank. so mostly Kadee has SHPX,which was a Division of ACF,maybe some NATX cars, and a few Private owners. so at 1 car every few months,Yes that would be awhile before Kadee runs low on possible cars to produce. I'll go find the Fooobie Stock numbers shortly. Spikre
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Post by peoriaman on Jul 31, 2015 12:18:27 GMT -8
I'm looking forward to having several of the new Kadee tank cars on my layout.
Have they hit the stores yet?
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Post by Spikre on Jul 31, 2015 12:19:41 GMT -8
so now we have KDC cars: 6902-2005 Aniversery 40' PS-1 6903-2005 Christmas 40' PS-1 6904-2006 Aniversery 40' PS-1 6905-2006 Aniversery 40' PS-1 6906-200? Anneversery 50' P-S-1 6907-200? KDC Patriot Car 40' PS-1 6908-200? couldn't find a listed car. 6909-2008 Christmas 40' PS-1 6910-200? couldn't find a listed car. 6911-200? couldn't find a listed car. 6912-2010 Christmas Naughty and Nice 2 bay Open Hopper. 6913-201? Kadee 65th Anniversary 40, PS-1 6914-201? couldn't find a listed car. 6915-201? couldn't find a listed car. 6916-2013-KDC Troop car,40' PS-1 6917-2013-KDC Christmas car,40' PS-1. 6918-2014- Christmas car,PS-2 Covered Hopper. so they arnt Fooooobies ? the Grand Foooooobie says they are. Spikre
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Post by grahamline on Jul 31, 2015 13:17:10 GMT -8
Where's the "block" button?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 31, 2015 13:55:58 GMT -8
so now we have KDC cars: 6902-2005 Aniversery 40' PS-1 6903-2005 Christmas 40' PS-1 6904-2006 Aniversery 40' PS-1 6905-2006 Aniversery 40' PS-1 6906-200? Anneversery 50' P-S-1 6907-200? KDC Patriot Car 40' PS-1 6908-200? couldn't find a listed car. 6909-2008 Christmas 40' PS-1 6910-200? couldn't find a listed car. 6911-200? couldn't find a listed car. 6912-2010 Christmas Naughty and Nice 2 bay Open Hopper. 6913-201? Kadee 65th Anniversary 40, PS-1 6914-201? couldn't find a listed car. 6915-201? couldn't find a listed car. 6916-2013-KDC Troop car,40' PS-1 6917-2013-KDC Christmas car,40' PS-1. 6918-2014- Christmas car,PS-2 Covered Hopper. so they arnt Fooooobies ? the Grand Foooooobie says they are. Spikre The former Grand Foobie has been deposed by a group of non-winged (neither left nor right winged) patriots. He has been transferred for re-education counting non-graffitied subway cars in Chicago. The new Grand Foobie wishes him well in his new task. Henceforth, the new Grand Foobie pronounces that the definition of "foobie" is as Sam said. Ed, Spokesperson for (new) Grand Foobie
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 31, 2015 17:03:10 GMT -8
I'm looking forward to having several of the new Kadee tank cars on my layout. Have they hit the stores yet? MB Klein claims to have shipped me one yesterday. Looks like they're out of stock now, though.
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Post by atsfan on Jul 31, 2015 17:06:13 GMT -8
Spike I think you need the naughty car.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jul 31, 2015 18:45:59 GMT -8
Where's the "block" button? I know right. Seriously. I've only used it once but atsfan posts way way way obsessively to the point that he takes over many topics. I just need a break from the mess
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Post by mlehman on Jul 31, 2015 18:58:23 GMT -8
It's actually called "Ignore."
It's great for keeping your blood pressure under control.
Spikre doesn't cause any such spells for me, he means well, even if he's on a different plane of existence than most of us. I find that interesting and occasionally confounding, but usually not disagreeable. He makes his point and doesn't necessarily dress you down for yours, although you can be pretty sure where he stands.
If he's got his own foobie definition, so be it, we all understand now. So long as he's still buying the occasional Kadee car that suits him when he can afford such an indulgence, all is right with the world.
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