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Post by Paul Cutler III on Sept 28, 2015 6:44:57 GMT -8
pacbelt,
Are you kidding? All that stuff you mention was going on long before the internet. It was called "mail order", and you have (and still do have) large mail order outfits that offered low overhead and deep discounts competing with mom & pop brick & mortar shops. Of course, back then you couldn't get any specific road name. You ordered an RS-3, and American Hobby would send you whatever they had on hand...at random. Today, not only could you order a specific road, but also a specific road number with or without sound (if available).
For someone who claims to be very experienced, you seem to have forgotten what it was like ca. 1990.
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Post by markfj on Sept 28, 2015 8:35:12 GMT -8
Well, thanks to eBay running a $20 off shipping coupon this weekend, I’m was motivated to buy a PC C630, nonDCC, with the Red “P” scheme. This was my second choice as I was out bid on a DCC/Sound C630 with standard white lettering.
A little research shows that both the C630 and C636 during the transformation of the PC to Conrail spent their time hauling ore unit trains to/from Mingo Junction in Ohio. It seems both models were later put in storage by Conrail around 1978; some serviceable, but most dead. Does anyone know if these had the aluminum cabling like the C430s? If so, then Conrail probably didn’t want to deal with the costs or headaches of rewiring them. Also, were the unit trains taking ore from or to Mingo? I’ve seen several photos of these large locomotives in New Jersey, so I’m guessing the unit trains went to/from a port.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by dti406 on Sept 28, 2015 10:24:24 GMT -8
The C628's, C630's and C636's were used on the PRR line from Cleveland to Pittsburg/Wheeling hauling ore and taconite from Whiskey Island to the Steel plants mostly using the G38 and G39 Ore Jennies but also using any coal hopper with a small amount of ore placed at the truck end of the car so as to not break its back.
The 636's were ordered by the PRR but were delivered in PC colors. After the Alco's were sidelined, CR mostly used SD and SDP45's in the ore service including the ex-EL Bi-Centennial Unit.
Rick J
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Post by Spikre on Sept 28, 2015 12:12:38 GMT -8
 have never heard "Aluminium Cables" and C636s mentioned together. doesn't mean that none were delivered with it,but have never read of any C636s being re-wired. have read that Susie Q rewired at least one of the ex-NYC C430s,and that could have been a reason the ex-Readings were passed over ? C630s seem to be a mixed bag,some did have Aluminium cables,have read that Reading re-wired some of their units,maybe those from the 1st order ? don't forget that Cartier got good use out of any Alco/MLW they had. another heavy use Ore haul road. Spikre 
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Post by pacbelt on Sept 28, 2015 18:48:03 GMT -8
pacbelt, Are you kidding? All that stuff you mention was going on long before the internet. It was called "mail order", and you have (and still do have) large mail order outfits that offered low overhead and deep discounts competing with mom & pop brick & mortar shops. Of course, back then you couldn't get any specific road name. You ordered an RS-3, and American Hobby would send you whatever they had on hand...at random. Today, not only could you order a specific road, but also a specific road number with or without sound (if available). For someone who claims to be very experienced, you seem to have forgotten what it was like ca. 1990. I remember WELL. That's why I never ordered from AHC. I DID order from Long's, Polk's, and even "Hobbies for Men" in the 1970's The 90's, was my 'break' from Model Railroading.... Only to come back in 2006, shell shocked. You are obviously dead-set in the belief that overpriced RTR, that needs nothing but lots of money! People like you have it all figured out, and will be RUDE to anyone with a different point of view. I'm out. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Sept 29, 2015 5:50:06 GMT -8
pacbelt, Are you kidding? All that stuff you mention was going on long before the internet. It was called "mail order", and you have (and still do have) large mail order outfits that offered low overhead and deep discounts competing with mom & pop brick & mortar shops. Of course, back then you couldn't get any specific road name. You ordered an RS-3, and American Hobby would send you whatever they had on hand...at random. Today, not only could you order a specific road, but also a specific road number with or without sound (if available). For someone who claims to be very experienced, you seem to have forgotten what it was like ca. 1990. I remember WELL. That's why I never ordered from AHC. I DID order from Long's, Polk's, and even "Hobbies for Men" in the 1970's The 90's, was my 'break' from Model Railroading.... Only to come back in 2006, shell shocked. You are obviously dead-set in the belief that overpriced RTR, that needs nothing but lots of money! People like you have it all figured out, and will be RUDE to anyone with a different point of view. I'm out. The rise of RTR is the manufacturers meeting the wants of the majority. Sure the prices are high but the product is so much better than the sparse selections we had back in the 1990's. I may only be able to afford one BLI E8 a year if I'm lucky! But, darn it I'll go without before throwing down $30 plus on an AHM or Model Power E8, which are totally sub par models and need countless hours of work and still will look like old outdated models. When I build a model I want a good canvas to base the build. There is this common belief that RTR is overpriced. But if you project out the prices of Athearn blue box kits of the 1990's using the inflation metric, those blue box kits would be the same or more than the RTR MSRP. Model trains aren't the only hobby that is seeing mushrooming price increases. Go online or to a hobby store and look at the prices of Monogram, AMT, Tamiya or other plastic kits. Then compare today's prices with the prices for the same exact kit in the late 1980's and early 90's. For all hobbies the problem lies in our personal wages. The wages have not kept up with the price of the hobby. So either you make do with less or find something else to pass the time. I'd recommend working on the house, but as employee of a major home improvement chain, I'm still in shock at the $4000 refrigerator I set my eyes on yesterday!!!! |
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Post by Spikre on Sept 29, 2015 15:44:31 GMT -8
 the so called "Rise Of RTR" is just the Companies in the U.S. Market copying the Euro Companies FAILED Example. eventually we will see some companies Implode,Atlas almost did recently. and do wonder about how Healthy Walthers actually is ?? they lost Their largest Wholesale Account,and are determined to Goof Up the Proto Line. Walthers does seem healthy in the Passenger Car Arena. and just like in Europe some/many companies will go Bankrupt eventually. the Model RR Hobby is out of Balance,so something will GIVE Eventually. Spikre 
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Post by pacbelt on Sept 29, 2015 16:28:44 GMT -8
the so called "Rise Of RTR" is just the Companies in the U.S. Market copying the Euro Companies FAILED Example. eventually we will see some companies Implode,Atlas almost did recently. and do wonder about how Healthy Walthers actually is ?? they lost Their largest Wholesale Account,and are determined to Goof Up the Proto Line. Walthers does seem healthy in the Passenger Car Arena. and just like in Europe some/many companies will go Bankrupt eventually. the Model RR Hobby is out of Balance,so something will GIVE Eventually. Spikre That's brilliant - and a point that a lot of people fail to see.... The sad fact is: there has been, and still is, a small group of people (who still happen to have a GOOD job), who are OK, paying $300 for a locomotive and $50+ for rolling stock. They feel like there's NOTHING wrong with this, and Damn what the REST of us feel about it.... The manufacturers can only cater to this minority for so long.... This IS partially OUR fault too. We bought up blue box and craftsman kits by the thousands, in the 70's and 80's... And then just sort of STOPPED in the 1990's. We had enough to last us a while! The manufacturers assumed that we modelers DIDN'T want kits anymore!  |
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Post by WP 257 on Sept 29, 2015 18:10:37 GMT -8
So far as I am aware Bowser has NO minimum order requirement for their dealers. I was casually thinking about trying my hand at internet sales and Lee himself said he'd sell me even just a few units if I wanted to start doing that...but my regular job takes enough time.
After other Alco runs sold out, it is possible MBK simply was overly optimistic regarding C-430 sales when they replaced the previous sellouts.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 1, 2015 4:39:19 GMT -8
That's brilliant - and a point that a lot of people fail to see.... The sad fact is: there has been, and still is, a small group of people (who still happen to have a GOOD job), who are OK, paying $300 for a locomotive and $50+ for rolling stock. They feel like there's NOTHING wrong with this, and Damn what the REST of us feel about it.... The manufacturers can only cater to this minority for so long.... This IS partially OUR fault too. We bought up blue box and craftsman kits by the thousands, in the 70's and 80's... And then just sort of STOPPED in the 1990's. We had enough to last us a while! The manufacturers assumed that we modelers DIDN'T want kits anymore! Over at MR forums there is a dedicated topic for complaining about the high cost of the hobby because it seems to be a popular past time for some; it's settled down to a dull roar here. I don't like paying $25-55 for new RTR HO freight cars anymore than you do, and yes, like many my income hasn't kept up with the rise in prices of higher quality model RR products; with a daughter in college and no savings for that - ain't much left to live on - train budget it limited. People have been complaining about the prices for the past 10-15 years but the products keep coming and keep going up. I can only assume they are selling if they keep getting produced. Sure, Atlas has slowed down but Athearn, ExactRail, Intermountain and crikey, look at Tangent cranking them out! End of story, complaining in forums isn't really going to do much except raise blood pressure. Give in to the Schwarz Luke! As for manufacturers assuming modelers didn't want kits anymore, they were simply responding to the market. When better RTR items started being produced, they sold very well, while kits, not so much. Fact is, most people had boxes of kits at home which sat unbuilt, and in the past 10 years they have been dumping them on the secondary market. The good news is if you aren't happy with the high prices of the high quality RTR items, just go to a good sized train show and you'll have all you want (Athearn blue box, MDC, Accurail, Walthers, Proto 2000, Intermountain, etc.) for great prices. IMO, this is a great time to be in the hobby. There is plenty of stuff for all levels of budgets. Be happy. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Oct 1, 2015 7:14:50 GMT -8
That's brilliant - and a point that a lot of people fail to see.... The sad fact is: there has been, and still is, a small group of people (who still happen to have a GOOD job), who are OK, paying $300 for a locomotive and $50+ for rolling stock. They feel like there's NOTHING wrong with this, and Damn what the REST of us feel about it.... The manufacturers can only cater to this minority for so long.... This IS partially OUR fault too. We bought up blue box and craftsman kits by the thousands, in the 70's and 80's... And then just sort of STOPPED in the 1990's. We had enough to last us a while! The manufacturers assumed that we modelers DIDN'T want kits anymore! Over at MR forums there is a dedicated topic for complaining about the high cost of the hobby because it seems to be a popular past time for some; it's settled down to a dull roar here. I don't like paying $25-55 for new RTR HO freight cars anymore than you do, and yes, like many my income hasn't kept up with the rise in prices of higher quality model RR products; with a daughter in college and no savings for that - ain't much left to live on - train budget it limited. People have been complaining about the prices for the past 10-15 years but the products keep coming and keep going up. I can only assume they are selling if they keep getting produced. Sure, Atlas has slowed down but Athearn, ExactRail, Intermountain and crikey, look at Tangent cranking them out! End of story, complaining in forums isn't really going to do much except raise blood pressure. Give in to the Schwarz Luke! As for manufacturers assuming modelers didn't want kits anymore, they were simply responding to the market. When better RTR items started being produced, they sold very well, while kits, not so much. Fact is, most people had boxes of kits at home which sat unbuilt, and in the past 10 years they have been dumping them on the secondary market. The good news is if you aren't happy with the high prices of the high quality RTR items, just go to a good sized train show and you'll have all you want (Athearn blue box, MDC, Accurail, Walthers, Proto 2000, Intermountain, etc.) for great prices. IMO, this is a great time to be in the hobby. There is plenty of stuff for all levels of budgets. Be happy. You can do a lot with less but it takes work. Example I'm taking two Athearn blue box Santa Fe cupola cabooses and building these models.   I'm also using two Athearn blue box wide vision cabooses and replacing the incorrect roofs with roofs cut from MDC 50 box cars to create these models.   Then I'm kit bashing various Athearn blue box F45's, FP45's and shorty fluted passenger cars to do:  A lot of work, but the Athearn cabooses all four cost me $8. I'm also taking a Bachmann train set caboose which is correct for a CB&Q class NE-12 and building it into a top end model.  The Bachmann caboose cost me a whopping $0.50! Look what Bobby(tankcarsrule) does with less expensive and old models if you need inspiration. |
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Post by markfj on Oct 1, 2015 7:46:58 GMT -8
The comments about why kits disappeared may all be true, but it still puzzles me why we can’t have both today (albeit in demand adjusted ratio of RTR to Kits). Yes, Tangent and ExactRail offer undecorated kits, but nothing pre-painted. I would gladly buy (preorder) and assemble pre-painted kits. Of course this idea always gets shot down because the mfgs say it’s more expensive to sell kits than RTR. Huh? You mean they can get these highly detailed RTR cars assembled and packed clear around the world, but can’t also run a simple offline kitting operation for decorated car kits?
Back to the Alco discussion: My Bowser PC C-630 arrived yesterday and sure looks nice! The only problem is that I can’t seem to find any photos that show #6319 with the red “P” logo. Checked several online photo sites and my collection of magazines and books; all show this road number had white logs. No big deal, I have the decals. But then I flipped my Pennsylvania Railroad calendar over to October this morning and there was photo of #6316 just a couple days old and looking really sharp with those Keystone logs. Hmm…what to do?
Mark
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Post by riogrande on Oct 1, 2015 8:49:58 GMT -8
@ Mark Ahem A few companies do still to offer decorated kits new: For example Accurail continues to offer kits, including an all new CF4750 covered hopper - saw multiple road names at the last train show. Atlas produces kits - here is a recently announcement from last summer : www.atlastrainman.com/HOFreight/tmho1937boxcar.htm So there are some new - on the market - decorated kits still being made. Then add on to that the plethora of kits made in the past on the secondary market at train shows, swap meets, Yahoo Groups swap lists, and of course Ebay. We do have both RTR and kits available to us - whats the problem? Go get 'em! ok nuff said - back to the Alco discussion. Atlas, please offer new road numbers for your RSD 4/5 in Utah Rwy! Please! |
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Post by jaygee on Oct 7, 2015 3:26:15 GMT -8
Did Atlas ever get rid of the Hand hold "nubs" on the hood ends of their RS3? This really kills the otherwise OK chooch for yours truly.
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