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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 9, 2016 15:20:05 GMT -8
What I would buy would depend upon available roadnames, which for Kato, are usually rather limited. What I think some are missing here is there is a subconscious "price ceiling". Dealers in my area talk about it. Many of the average buyers really cannot stomach paying more than $100 for a new locomotive. That means anything above $100 actual street price tends to sit around awhile. For every nice, Genesis level engine with sound they sell, they probably sell many times over that the lesser priced "Trainman" level engines. That's just how it is. Even the somewhat ugly Walthers GP9--it has a decent mechanism, runs well, and sells, especially in some of the oddball roadnames they've offered. Yes, the Bachmann DDA40X has skyrocketed in price, so maybe that wasn't the best example...but its detail is less than the Genesis version, and that was a comparison I was attempting to make. I now live in the Chicago area and hobby shops are few and far between, other than Lombard Hobbies which has dirt cheap prices. Lombard has no problem moving $100+ locomotives. So is the price ceiling a local thing? The other stores that I am familiar with are or near list on locomotives. I know there are other model railroaders in the Chicago area, other than myself so they must be buying their rolling stock somewhere. In my now former home area of Green Bay, Wisconsin, we had the HO and N trains only EngineHouse Services. EHS moved Genesis, Bowser, Athearn RTR, Intermountain and other high end priced models like they were giving the stuff away. They didn't stock much if any of the low end trains. The store's clientele wanted quality and could get it at a fair price. EHS also does a lot of internet orders. So there are plenty of people that WANT AND WILL PAY for the Genesis quality. Enough to keep a store like EHS in business and making a profit. Same goes for Lombard Hobbies who moves the high end locomotives, etc. at a brisk pace. What seems to be missed in this conversation is the price of the Athearn RTR GP35. At $135 it is way overpriced for what you are getting. A few years ago, I purchased a Athearn RTR GP35 painted for the Soo Line in that road's Bicentennial scheme. I was happier than a bug in a rug! I had gotten the Soo Line Bicentennial to go along with my other collection of Bicentennial locomotives. I took it out of the box and put a decoder in it. Then I gave it a test run......................... There was an old commercial for Alka-Seltzer in the 1970's. The guy said "They said, try it you'll like it"...."So I tried it"......"Thought I was going to die"....."Hello Alka-Seltzer"..... That was what crossed my mind when my beloved Athearn RTR GP35 painted in Soo Line Bicentennial started to run..... It screeched like finger nails on a blackboard.....It ran like crap too!!! So I pulled the shell and listened. It was the "great" Athearn "gold standard" RTR motor which was totally at fault. I then took a FEW HOURS to work on the mechanism to make it run somewhat better and make the squeal a little less pronounced. IT WAS NEVER PERFECT. My only option was to gut the motor and re-power, if I wanted some level of decent operation. Now you tell me....how many "newbies" or even seasoned hobbyists are going to be happy having dropped $100 and are now in a total rebuild of the mechanism of their new locomotive? Where are the newbies and for that matter the experienced hobbyists shopping? The hobby shop is a thing of the past or nearly, so its e-Bay and mail order. How many newbies fresh into the hobby are combing the net for trains? There is a lot of jabber on these forums about "newbies" and price, etc. but where does a person that wants to get into model railroading go? The local train show in Wheaton, Illinois has prices which are more than e-Bay, if you can find any decent HO. Lots of Lionel, Tyco, etc. but GOOD HO like Kato, Proto, Athearn Genesis, RTR, Bowser is either non-existent or priced near or at retail. So newbies more than likely aren't going to be turned on by the show. Dealers are now few and far between in this area, so that is another area that is a near dead end for new people entering the hobby. Their may be a ceiling but in Green Bay and Chicago, I don't see it. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Feb 9, 2016 15:20:34 GMT -8
Have you seen the prices for the latest releases of the Bachmann DDA40X? Those models used to be dirt cheap.....they surely are not dirt cheap anymore. Even Bachmann's current new releases are not that inexpensive. In fact there is not much in the model railroad line of new release locomotives that can be considered cheap. When Bachmann is hocking unprototypical gondolas with cast-on details at prices higher than Rapido is selling their fully done up ones for, there's something wrong with Bachmann...delusions of grandeur come to mind.
Didn't somebody recently post a cartoon of Bach Man having a bong hit........LMFAO!
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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 9, 2016 19:24:01 GMT -8
The SW-Something is one I have a strong opinion of, and not a favorable one. Maybe the tooling could be melted down to make better models of something else. Recycle those dies! Toss in the ones from the GP35 too...
The SW7 could actually benefit from a makeover. The original cab is atrocious, however, the hood is the correct width! Many modelers have improved the look of this locomotive with the addition of a Cannon SW cab, which truly transforms this "sow" into a "silk purse"!
Donnell
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Post by Judge Doom on Feb 9, 2016 23:32:26 GMT -8
When Bachmann is hocking unprototypical gondolas with cast-on details at prices higher than Rapido is selling their fully done up ones for, there's something wrong with Bachmann...delusions of grandeur come to mind.
Didn't somebody recently post a cartoon of Bach Man having a bong hit........LMFAO!
"Ooooohhhh yeeeeaaaaahhhhh, let's raise those prices brosauce":  |
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Post by Judge Doom on Feb 9, 2016 23:40:11 GMT -8
Recycle those dies! Toss in the ones from the GP35 too...
The SW7 could actually benefit from a makeover. The original cab is atrocious, however, the hood is the correct width! Many modelers have improved the look of this locomotive with the addition of a Cannon SW cab, which truly transforms this "sow" into a "silk purse"!
Donnell
The hood and walkways are slightly too long as well, noticeable when you put one alongside a P2K unit. Methinks maybe some compromises were made to get it on the "fatty" Baldwin S12 chassis. But above all, yes, all the Athearn SW7 cabs in existence should be rounded up and thrown in a blazing fire from where they will never be seen again. Like the Globe F7 front windshields, the rear SW7 cab windows are ugly and the front middle ones unnecessarily raised higher. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 10, 2016 5:56:43 GMT -8
Upgrading the Globe F7 is another fantasy "pet project" I'd like to see done if for nothing more than to fix up the front end, i.e. cleaning up, or sharpening up the tooling for the cab windshields, softening the fillet between the nose and the windshield, adding definition cab side windows, rounding-over the headlight housing, redefining the nose door seam, and softening the curvature of the pointy pilot and shorten it, and reshape the buffer/anticlimber.
Personally, I would like to address the entire shell, fixing the roof curvature, and correcting the fan hatches and intake grilles along the hood side. I would also like to clean up the rear end, and add more definition to the fuel tank/chassis.
I realize that many of you would consider this a futile endeavor, but it makes no difference to me. This is a personal desire that I hold irregardless of the fact that Genesis, Highliner, Intermountain, Proto, Stewart, and even the newest Bachmann F units exist. I suppose if I had to give a reason, it would be to make the Globe unit into what it could have been.
Donnell
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Post by roadkill on Feb 10, 2016 6:50:46 GMT -8
The hood and walkways are slightly too long as well, noticeable when you put one alongside a P2K unit. Methinks maybe some compromises were made to get it on the "fatty" Baldwin S12 chassis. But above all, yes, all the Athearn SW7 cabs in existence should be rounded up and thrown in a blazing fire from where they will never be seen again. Like the Globe F7 front windshields, the rear SW7 cab windows are ugly and the front middle ones unnecessarily raised higher. The "SW7" actually came out in '66 as the new "SW1500", somehow Athearn got the idea the SW1500 was going to remain on the classic EMD switch carbody. As for the fat a$$ S12 it came in '73 or '74. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Feb 10, 2016 8:54:30 GMT -8
The thing with Bachmann is it's usually easy to find them street priced at half the MSRP.
Often still too high for what you're getting, but that may be part of the reason for the rise in prices.
As for the rest, like I said before some people don't care if it's not perfect, as long as it looks good. That's why I can still sell ancient blue box engines, old AHM engines - let me tell you, if they're cheap I'd buy mint boxed GP18 dummies in northeastern roads by the dozen, because it's easy to find beat up but running powered engines for under $10 and I can swap the drive out in about 10 minutes and have an engine that will sell for $25 every time. And they're terrible looking engines. But they run, they'll run pretty well forever.
So I wouldn't be so harsh on these old tools. Don't like 'em - don't buy 'em.
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Post by Judge Doom on Feb 10, 2016 13:27:57 GMT -8
The hood and walkways are slightly too long as well, noticeable when you put one alongside a P2K unit. Methinks maybe some compromises were made to get it on the "fatty" Baldwin S12 chassis. But above all, yes, all the Athearn SW7 cabs in existence should be rounded up and thrown in a blazing fire from where they will never be seen again. Like the Globe F7 front windshields, the rear SW7 cab windows are ugly and the front middle ones unnecessarily raised higher. The "SW7" actually came out in '66 as the new "SW1500", somehow Athearn got the idea the SW1500 was going to remain on the classic EMD switch carbody. As for the fat a$$ S12 it came in '73 or '74. Interesting. The other thing that came to mind regarding the extra length was the tight spacing of the drive components on the SW7 chassis, which unlike something like a GP38 or SD40-2 (with extra room between motor and gear towers) have to be "squished" together to fit on the short frame. It's possible they couldn't fit the truck gear tower-driveshaft-motor w/flywheels-driveshaft-truck gear tower setup on a prototypical length SW chassis without having to lengthen it, thus lengthening the long hood. |
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Post by roadkill on Feb 10, 2016 13:30:07 GMT -8
That would be my guess based on HO scale drivetrain, er, "technology" back in '66  . |
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Post by fourteen on Feb 10, 2016 22:52:48 GMT -8
Lest the rtr GP-35 is better than the old BB GP-35
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Post by loophog on Feb 11, 2016 10:11:01 GMT -8
While the RTR GP35 may not be the best GP35 it's a far cry better then the old blue box GP35! I'm hoping the Walthers Proto does a good job on theirs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 11:37:38 GMT -8
Walther's model is a phase II version...which has a different frame, fuel tank setup, and air tank setup.
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Post by milgentrains on Feb 11, 2016 13:38:51 GMT -8
You can kick me off this forum if you want to as I have many BB cars and locos. I am happy to have them and I can't wait to have a layout so I can run them. Being disabled I have to watch my money closely but I'll admit that I'll jump at the Atlas Savannah State Docks boxcars.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 11, 2016 13:52:26 GMT -8
Nah, no need to disembark Steve! As others and myself will admit, we have blue box cars too - it's allowed. Those new Atlas box cars do look nice however.
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Post by atsfan on Feb 11, 2016 13:55:04 GMT -8
Blue Box users can use the forum.
There is, however, a Blue Box surcharge to be paid quarterly.
The good news is it is less than the Tyco surcharge.
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Post by milgentrains on Feb 11, 2016 14:56:04 GMT -8
Blue Box users can use the forum. There is, however, a Blue Box surcharge to be paid quarterly. The good news is it is less than the Tyco surcharge. I guess that I'm up you know what creek because I have one Tyco woodside reefer because I liked the paint scheme. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Feb 11, 2016 21:31:43 GMT -8
Tyco has their own forum, you can just head over there.
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Post by peoriaman on Feb 12, 2016 4:44:01 GMT -8
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Post by atsfan on Feb 12, 2016 5:12:48 GMT -8
I miss Tyco billboard cars. Would love to see some new ones produced by somebody. Jello, Snack Pak, Beer, Boraxo. The proto police don't like them, but they are fun to run and kids love them.
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Post by WP 257 on Feb 12, 2016 7:31:30 GMT -8
The only downside is learning prototype railroad history and finding out that in real life the cool billboard reefers were outlawed by about 1933 or so, such that most of the famous private owner (non-RR owned) schemes were gone far before the "transition era" let alone diesels...
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 12, 2016 8:18:00 GMT -8
The only downside is learning prototype railroad history and finding out that in real life the cool billboard reefers were outlawed by about 1933 or so...  Ed |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 12, 2016 8:24:47 GMT -8
There is no downside to billboard cars of any era
As for them being banned, typical bravo Sierra
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Post by milgentrains on Feb 12, 2016 8:39:31 GMT -8
There is no downside to billboard cars of any era As for them being banned, typical bravo Sierra Let's not forget the Sargento Cheese boxcar of a few years ago.  |
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Post by atsfan on Feb 12, 2016 8:52:18 GMT -8
There is no downside to billboard cars of any era As for them being banned, typical bravo Sierra Let's not forget the Sargento Cheese boxcar of a few years ago. View AttachmentThat should be banned as people are allergic to dairy! Oh the humanity.  I wonder if anyone sells billboard hopper foobie decal sets? |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 12, 2016 8:53:00 GMT -8
I didn't really think the Hamm's would be up my alley and then Jim Eager mentioned he had photographed them in Colorado Springs so they showed up in Rio Grande territory.
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Post by TBird1958 on Feb 12, 2016 9:00:49 GMT -8
I missed the first run of the Hamm's cars, glad they're re-issuing it. Evidently the Rio Grande moved beer from a number of brewers westbound.
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Post by tankcarsrule on Feb 12, 2016 9:10:56 GMT -8
Not trying to be a -------, but boy has this thread strayed!
The Tyco kid, Bobby
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 11:05:14 GMT -8
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Post by mlehman on Feb 12, 2016 13:02:46 GMT -8
The only downside is learning prototype railroad history and finding out that in real life the cool billboard reefers were outlawed by about 1933 or so, such that most of the famous private owner (non-RR owned) schemes were gone far before the "transition era" let alone diesels... As a historian, I can respect that. I enjoy knowing about my prototypes. On the other hand, I know what I like and history, to me, should not stand in the way of the personal enjoyment you might derive from something that is, as we say, ahistorical. Not sure If I'd go Tyco, but I don't have a problem with anyone else enjoying it to whatever degree they choose. None of that makes any of us less as a prototype modeler. We just don't do it 24/7. Which may be a good thing, errr (not you WP257), considering the sort of occasional extremism it seems to cultivate... |
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