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Post by oldmuley on Jul 20, 2016 17:59:34 GMT -8
Good Evening Guys,
I am in the process of painting an engine using Tru-Color paint, and I'm having terrible luck. The finish I'm getting is very rough, almost like sandpaper. In the past I've used Tru-Color paints with my Iwata Eclipse airbrush set to 25psi and have had nice results. Now I need to figure out how to strip my engine to start over, and I'm not sure what to use. The paint cleans up nice with acetone, but I don't dare use that on a plastic model. Any idea why my paint might have failed, and more immediately, how do I strip it?
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Post by 12bridge on Jul 20, 2016 18:38:36 GMT -8
Are you thinning it? I know early on, you could shoot it straight, but lately I have been having to thin the stuff WAY down.
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 20, 2016 18:43:54 GMT -8
Paint is not thinned enough. My experience having used TruColor almost exclusively for almost eight years is that you have to thin it more than what you been accustomed to with any other paint.
When I first started using it, I was getting the same results - even though I was thinning it to what I was accustomed to using other solvent based finishes. What I found was that in order to lay down smooth wet passes, I had to add way more thinner than what I felt comfortable with .... but it worked.
TruColor paint is not pigment based paint that requires a certain level of coverage for all the pigment particles to hide what is under them. TruColor paint is an ink based paint in that it is a solid coating that requires much less coverage to attain a solid color. You will never get dried solids in the bottom of a TruColor bottle of paint. Since it covers so well, it can be thinned to a much higher ratio as there are no pigment particles getting dispersed farther apart requiring more and more paint coats for coverage.
As for stripping it - I always use Scalecoat paint stripper for plastics .... washes the paint right off. I've heard many people sing the praises of 91%+ alcohol, but I've never had much success with it myself. Easy-Off oven cleaner in the yellow can will also work in a pinch.
Mark.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 19:17:10 GMT -8
Good Evening Guys, I am in the process of painting an engine using Tru-Color paint, and I'm having terrible luck. The finish I'm getting is very rough, almost like sandpaper. In the past I've used Tru-Color paints with my Iwata Eclipse airbrush set to 25psi and have had nice results. Now I need to figure out how to strip my engine to start over, and I'm not sure what to use. The paint cleans up nice with acetone, but I don't dare use that on a plastic model. Any idea why my paint might have failed, and more immediately, how do I strip it? 91% Isopropyl Alcohol. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 19:19:26 GMT -8
Paint is not thinned enough. My experience having used TruColor almost exclusively for almost eight years is that you have to thin it more than what you been accustomed to with any other paint. When I first started using it, I was getting the same results - even though I was thinning it to what I was accustomed to using other solvent based finishes. What I found was that in order to lay down smooth wet passes, I had to add way more thinner than what I felt comfortable with .... but it worked. TruColor paint is not pigment based paint that requires a certain level of coverage for all the pigment particles to hide what is under them. TruColor paint is an ink based paint in that it is a solid coating that requires much less coverage to attain a solid color. You will never get dried solids in the bottom of a TruColor bottle of paint. Since it covers so well, it can be thinned to a much higher ratio as there are no pigment particles getting dispersed farther apart requiring more and more paint coats for coverage. As for stripping it - I always use Scalecoat paint stripper for plastics .... washes the paint right off. I've heard many people sing the praises of 91%+ alcohol, but I've never had much success with it myself. Easy-Off oven cleaner in the yellow can will also work in a pinch. Mark. Right on the money. You have to thin it to the consistency of milk...and add a couple more drops of thinner. Don't use regular acetone, either...just use that for cleaning your brush...and brush parts. Use their thinner for the paint...it's more expensive...but you get what you pay for. Shoot it at 25 psi +...it wants to dry as soon as it hits the air because it's acetone based ink...shoot it a bit closer to your model, too... |
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Post by oldmuley on Jul 20, 2016 19:26:18 GMT -8
Thanks for the info. The first two colors I used (CNW green and yellow) were great right out of the bottle, but the latest (Soo Red) was a bust. I thought I could thin it with acetone, but held off. Guess I'll make a trip to the LHS to pick up some proper thinner. The model will get a bath in the isopropyl tomorrow.
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 20, 2016 19:34:02 GMT -8
Actually, I've been thinning mine with regular hardware brand acetone. When my business was still going, I did a LOT of painting, and just couldn't justify the cost of the actual TruColor thinner for how much I was using.
Like Thomas mentioned, you also have to adjust your spray methods as well. I shoot with a more aggressive spray pattern and shoot much closer to the model. You need to get the paint passes down quick and wet if you expect to get subsequent passes to flow into the previous pass.
Here's a clip I shot showing how well TruColor paint covers, but is also a good example of how close and quick I spray ....
Mark.
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Post by stevef45 on Jul 20, 2016 19:41:26 GMT -8
Give castrol super clean a try. You can find it in autoparts stores. It will loosen up detail parts so be prepared to glue things back together.
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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 20, 2016 19:43:33 GMT -8
I've always had great results thinning and spraying TCP thru my Iwatas with automotive lacquer like Dupont 3602.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 19:48:09 GMT -8
91% isopropyl alcohol will take it down to bare plastic and will not affect the glue...on detail parts...only contact cement...will be dissolved. I like Tru Colors' thinner better...but it's personal preference... Bright colors will need short passes as Mark stated...light color gray primer is good also Tru Color is all I use now... www.joppasub.com/GP15-1.htm |
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 20, 2016 19:52:43 GMT -8
I've always had great results thinning and spraying TCP thru my Iwatas with automotive lacquer like Dupont 3602. Really ? When I got my first bottle of TruColor, I tried thinning it with laquer thinners (the paint bottle even says acetone based - should have known better) and it turned to jello in the paint jar ! It initially seemed to thin ok, but about 30 seconds in to painting I was getting spits out the tip. (?) When I agitated the bottle, the paint was thickening up in the bottle from the bottom up. The more I agitated the bottle, the thicker it got. Quickly cleaned my gun and "scraped" the residue out of the bottle. Never tried that again .... Mark. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 20, 2016 21:00:39 GMT -8
I've always had great results thinning and spraying TCP thru my Iwatas with automotive lacquer like Dupont 3602. Really ? When I got my first bottle of TruColor, I tried thinning it with laquer thinners (the paint bottle even says acetone based - should have known better) and it turned to jello in the paint jar ! It initially seemed to thin ok, but about 30 seconds in to painting I was getting spits out the tip. (?) When I agitated the bottle, the paint was thickening up in the bottle from the bottom up. The more I agitated the bottle, the thicker it got. Quickly cleaned my gun and "scraped" the residue out of the bottle. Never tried that again .... Mark. Not disputing what happened to you, but yes, I only thin it with good lacquer and have never had any issues at all. TCP is actually SMP's Accupaint formula, which I've used for many years, always thinned with good lacquer. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 7:20:40 GMT -8
I've always had great results thinning and spraying TCP thru my Iwatas with automotive lacquer like Dupont 3602. Never tried lacquer...but I didn't use the paint when it as SMP Accupaint, either. I bought into Tru Color after they acquired Accu-paint. But I have seen models painted with it for years...from RPM out West. It's the best paint out there. Nothing comes close to the finish you get with it, IMO. |
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Post by canrailfan on Jul 21, 2016 8:00:56 GMT -8
I haven't done much airbrush painting (yet). I went to the TruColor website for some information and see that they say the paint is "airbrush ready" right from the bottle. They also recommend pressure 0f 28-35 PSI.
From the preceding posts I take it that thinning and using a lower pressure gives better results?
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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 21, 2016 8:31:01 GMT -8
I've always had great results thinning and spraying TCP thru my Iwatas with automotive lacquer like Dupont 3602. Never tried lacquer...but I didn't use the paint when it as SMP Accupaint, either. I bought into Tru Color after they acquired Accu-paint. But I have seen models painted with it for years...from RPM out West. It's the best paint out there. Nothing comes close to the finish you get with it, IMO. I never really got along with Floquil, much better with Scalecoat - AccuPaint/TCP is what made me a confident painter. It's so fast and easy to use, has virtually no "build" to it because as Mark R. says it's more of an ink than a paint. When it's cut with a good quality lacquer you can really work with the paint while it's wet. One of the best tricks with it is after you've painted your model and before you clean out your airbrush, fill the color cup with clean lacquer and mix it with the residual color in the cup, then overspray the model. The thinned color wash creates a very glossy, tight finish that will flash off quickly and be ready for decals in as few as 5 minutes. Truly an amazing paint, it takes all the waiting time out of the paint work and lets you work much more quickly than other brands. Regarding the lacquer, I think using a high grade is essential to consistent results, DuPont 3602 is designed to work with a specific band of temperatures (55-75 degress) and flash off quickly. It's for automotive work, about $50.00 a gallon and worth it if you paint a lot. ( I paint 2-5 times weekly) |
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 21, 2016 13:44:41 GMT -8
That may well have been my problem .... I keep a gallon of generic hardware store brand laquer thinners for clean-up and the occasional thinning of Floquil flats for weathering. I'm sure that variety is VERY generic and what you use just happens to work well with the TruColor chemistry.
Still, I wouldn't gamble it without being sure.
As for the comment regarding being sprayable straight from the bottle .... I've never experienced that - even from a brand new bottle. Sure, you CAN spray it, but you won't get a good flow unless you thin it down considerably. I also spray everything at 32 psi. And this isn't my experience with just a few bottles - I have painted hundreds of engines with TruColor and have well over 200 bottles in my inventory. I love that stuff.
Mark.
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Post by oldmuley on Jul 21, 2016 14:51:46 GMT -8
Guys, a couple of things: first off, no one was kidding when they said 91% isopropyl alcohol will remove the paint! Holy carp, I've never been able to strip the paint off a model with such ease! It was literally a matter of seconds in the alcohol bath and my model was down to bare plastic. Secondly, when I stopped at the LHS the had a 16oz bottle of Tru-Color thinner that was $45! After searching, I found a 1oz bottle that was way more affordable. It sure smells like straight acetone to me, but maybe it includes something else. If I have success tomorrow when I repaint, I just might be sticking with Tru-Color from now on, if for no other reason than the ease of clean-up and ability to quickly strip models that get goofed up.
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routerock
Junior Member
Rock Island in 1977
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Post by routerock on Jul 21, 2016 16:53:09 GMT -8
I have been having the same problem using their Rock Island maroon paint. I have painted and stripped my Athearn GP35 4 times/
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 17:53:53 GMT -8
Guys, a couple of things: first off, no one was kidding when they said 91% isopropyl alcohol will remove the paint! Holy carp, I've never been able to strip the paint off a model with such ease! It was literally a matter of seconds in the alcohol bath and my model was down to bare plastic. Secondly, when I stopped at the LHS the had a 16oz bottle of Tru-Color thinner that was $45! After searching, I found a 1oz bottle that was way more affordable. It sure smells like straight acetone to me, but maybe it includes something else. If I have success tomorrow when I repaint, I just might be sticking with Tru-Color from now on, if for no other reason than the ease of clean-up and ability to quickly strip models that get goofed up. Yep. I've repainted that GP15-1 cab of mine twice thus far...after goofing on the side panels...and installing the wrong ones...91% Isopropyl is the best paint stripper around, IMO. You can use it on anything...Genesis; Proto; Kato; etc., But Tru Color dissolves in it lightening fast. Re Thinner: Their website says you can use straight acetone...but it dulls the paint a bit...I prefer the shiny finish for decals...then flat coat. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 17:58:50 GMT -8
Never tried lacquer...but I didn't use the paint when it as SMP Accupaint, either. I bought into Tru Color after they acquired Accu-paint. But I have seen models painted with it for years...from RPM out West. It's the best paint out there. Nothing comes close to the finish you get with it, IMO. I never really got along with Floquil, much better with Scalecoat - AccuPaint/TCP is what made me a confident painter. It's so fast and easy to use, has virtually no "build" to it because as Mark R. says it's more of an ink than a paint. When it's cut with a good quality lacquer you can really work with the paint while it's wet. One of the best tricks with it is after you've painted your model and before you clean out your airbrush, fill the color cup with clean lacquer and mix it with the residual color in the cup, then overspray the model. The thinned color wash creates a very glossy, tight finish that will flash off quickly and be ready for decals in as few as 5 minutes. Truly an amazing paint, it takes all the waiting time out of the paint work and lets you work much more quickly than other brands. Regarding the lacquer, I think using a high grade is essential to consistent results, DuPont 3602 is designed to work with a specific band of temperatures (55-75 degress) and flash off quickly. It's for automotive work, about $50.00 a gallon and worth it if you paint a lot. ( I paint 2-5 times weekly) I used Polly Scale for 10 years...when they were in business for themselves...the paint labels said Amsterdam NY...and that was good paint. When Testors bought them...they screwed something up...as the formula I was used to mixing wasn't getting anything done...clogged the brush...etc., Floquil was a nice paint...but it liked to attack the plastic after a while...I used Scalecoat II for a while...but it was a pain in the ass to clean up...IMO. Stunk to high heaven, too. I switched to Tru Color Paint...after trying it on a caboose...and loving it. But it took getting used to...you still shoot at a high PSI...but closer to the model...thin it as we stated earlier...and voila!!! Super Smooth finish...like GLASS. And, they make a great MoPac Jenks Blue!!!! |
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Post by ddatrainman on Jul 22, 2016 15:09:53 GMT -8
Question about the TruColor, because when I first started using it it gunked up my airbrush pretty good. I guess I didn't thin it enough, what ratio do you use/how much paint and thinner? I'd like to try redoing a caboose.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 15:41:14 GMT -8
Start at 60/40...but you can't really thin it too much. If you use their thinner...it works better...test it on a piece of styrene...spray about 6-8 inches max from work.
Light coats...let it dry 15-20 minutes between coats.
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 22, 2016 17:28:35 GMT -8
Start at 60/40...but you can't really thin it too much. If you use their thinner...it works better...test it on a piece of styrene...spray about 6-8 inches max from work. Light coats...let it dry 15-20 minutes between coats. You take a different approach than I do .... I spray about 3 to 4 inches away (see my video link I posted earlier) and hit it hard and wet with a decent size fan. I don't think you could get this stuff to run even if you tried. You want each pass heavy and wet enough so each subsequent pass will meld together with the previous. Lights coats will give you a rough finish as it's practically dry when it hits the surface. This stuff also kicks off quick, no need to wait between coats. Hell, 20 minutes after I've sprayed, I've been masking for the next color. Easily do a three color job in the same day. Mark. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 23, 2016 6:18:33 GMT -8
Lots of good information in this thread, thanks to everyone who has contributed. I've never used Tru-color paint but will consider it in the future. As for alcohol stipper, it's never worked well for me.
For those of you that use this paint/ink material, what do you use for weathering after the finished factory fresh paint job is complete? I have been real happy with my Vallejo paints and their own thinner on other base paints, mostly Polyscale.
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Post by loosecannon68 on Jul 23, 2016 7:21:49 GMT -8
I use the Tru Color paints mostly for weathering. Flat Grimy Black is my favorite. I make a mix of weathered iron oxide + weathered black too.
As stated above, thin it pretty well. I dilute with acetone. Use good ventilation and no ignition sources !
-Chris G.
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Post by nsc39d8 on Jul 23, 2016 13:37:18 GMT -8
Karl,
I have been using Tru-Color paint fro awhile now and still have an ample supply of Floquil Glaze and Flat which I use with Tru-Color paint and no problems. I do all my weathering on the flat and have used oils, pastels and weathering powders all with success. True-color paint is very forgiving when applied as stated by several other members. I started using Tru-Color when it was actually Accupaint as this was the only source for the Imitation Aluminum used by Southern on their green and black paint schemes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2016 19:42:58 GMT -8
Start at 60/40...but you can't really thin it too much. If you use their thinner...it works better...test it on a piece of styrene...spray about 6-8 inches max from work. Light coats...let it dry 15-20 minutes between coats. You take a different approach than I do .... I spray about 3 to 4 inches away (see my video link I posted earlier) and hit it hard and wet with a decent size fan. I don't think you could get this stuff to run even if you tried. You want each pass heavy and wet enough so each subsequent pass will meld together with the previous. Lights coats will give you a rough finish as it's practically dry when it hits the surface. This stuff also kicks off quick, no need to wait between coats. Hell, 20 minutes after I've sprayed, I've been masking for the next color. Easily do a three color job in the same day. Mark. I'm not masking that much...but that's great to know!!! |
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Post by markfj on Apr 14, 2021 12:20:22 GMT -8
It’s been about four years since the last post to this thread and I’m wondering if members are still using this paint brand regularly. My first attempt at spraying Tru Color was today and it was a bit disappointing. It didn’t seem to cover well and I was getting a slightly rough finish (certainly not the glass smooth finish others have reported). Here are my specs: - Airbrush: siphon feed Badger Crescendo 175, needle and tip size: fine
- Air pressure: 20–22 psi static
- Moisture trap: yes
- Ambient air temp: ~ 62 degrees at time of sprayingS
- Humidity: ~ 69% at time of spraying
- Thinner: Tru Color TCP–015, paint thinned to consistency of milk
- Distance for model: ~6”
I did read the recommendations and FAQs on the Tru Color website and have watch several video reviews of the paint on YouTube. Based on the settings and thinning mixture I used, I "should" be getting a really smooth finish. Questions: - Does this paint spray better using a gravity feed airbrush?
- What size needle/tip works best?
- Is the humidity causing the problem? (Note: I’ve read that “low” humidity causes the solvents to evaporate faster.)
- Should I use a primer?
I also want to add this comment Elizabeth Allen made on the chemical make of Tru Color thinner as others may find it interesting and useful: “The thinner is a mix of acetone and MEK, with a bit more MEK than acetone. It's also about 15 percent or so two alcohols whose identity escapes me at the moment, but their purpose serves to create a solution that where the acetone and MEK (both ketones) are sufficiently dissolved in the alcohols so they don't attack the styrene. I've heard of folks using 99 percent isopropyl alcohol as a substitute when mixing their own. I think using just acetone as a thinner can result in the solvent volatilizing before the paint has a chance to level itself. I've used a mixture of MEK and acetone without too much problem, but the pre-mixed stuff works best."
Also I read that the paint is not spray ready (even in relatively new bottles) as the thinning chemicals can evaporate through the plastic walls of the bottle. Some have reported "unopen' bottles being only half full because of evaporation of the thinner. Sorry no photos to share, I quickly put the project (a Kadee boxcar shell) into alcohol to strip the paint off and get it ready for a respray. Thanks, Mark Reading, PA |
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Post by 12bridge on Apr 14, 2021 12:24:49 GMT -8
I use it almost exclusively. It has a learning curve, that's for sure. Biggest thing is to thin the hell out of it. I use a #3 on a Paasche H,and spray at about 28lbs. Some colors behave better then others. You have to lay it on heavy, and in my experience, it will always look like crap. After decaling and sealing it with your favorite flavor of clear, it has always evened right out and looks perfect.
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Post by TBird1958 on Apr 14, 2021 12:41:51 GMT -8
It's pretty much all I use as well, I really like it a lot. Unlike some I thin it with a high quality automotive lacquer thinner, DuPont 3602 or similar, the ratio varies depending on the color as some pigments will just cover better. It's a very "workable" paint when thinned this way, I get in pretty close and get the surface wet while keeping the airbrush moving, you can come back over what you've painted with the residual color in the airbrush and thinner, again shooting it wet, this imparts a nice high gloss that's perfect for decals. FWIW I use a 25 year Iwata HP-C airbrush that has an integral gravity feed color cup, I find it's very easy to maintain.  |
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