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Post by jonklein611 on Jul 29, 2016 7:17:40 GMT -8
Does anyone make, or provide a way to build this type of double slip?  |
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Post by rockisland652 on Jul 29, 2016 7:20:38 GMT -8
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 29, 2016 8:00:47 GMT -8
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 29, 2016 8:27:34 GMT -8
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Post by jonklein611 on Jul 29, 2016 8:46:38 GMT -8
Thanks folks. However is the angle the same as the photo above? I'm looking for a switch to use in passenger depot / station areas. The linked ones don't look "tight" enough or don't have enough of an angle.
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Post by scl1234 on Jul 29, 2016 9:34:41 GMT -8
To duplicate the ~60-75 degree angles in the photo, you'll be on your own.
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 29, 2016 9:54:29 GMT -8
It's not as tight as you think it is. The lens is playing a trick on your eyes. Count the ties from frog to frog. The Walthers switch is only about 32 ties in length (the headblocks throw off the count), where this switch might be about 40 or more from frog to frog. An aerial photo would be the best way to determine the angle if you can find one.
If you need more than one double slip, consider the Fast Tracks tools. They are easy to use and very economical if you need multiples of the same switch.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 29, 2016 10:15:42 GMT -8
Metrolink (the real one) uses #8 and #10 slip switches. I would expect them to be a pretty typical passenger operation, slip switch-wise.
So if you care to use the model railroad "special switch shrinking formula", you could use #6 and #8 slips. Which Walthers seems to catalog.
Going smaller (sharper) for a "passenger depot/station area" approaches extremely unwise. In fact, if at all possible, I would go with the #8's.
Also, slip switches are for low speed work. Meaning you cannot run a train through them at full speed. Or even medium speed. If someone can show me wrong on this, I do look forward to seeing that.
Ed
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Post by jonklein611 on Jul 29, 2016 10:46:16 GMT -8
Metrolink (the real one) uses #8 and #10 slip switches. I would expect them to be a pretty typical passenger operation, slip switch-wise. So if you care to use the model railroad "special switch shrinking formula", you could use #6 and #8 slips. Which Walthers seems to catalog. Going smaller (sharper) for a "passenger depot/station area" approaches extremely unwise. In fact, if at all possible, I would go with the #8's. Also, slip switches are for low speed work. Meaning you cannot run a train through them at full speed. Or even medium speed. If someone can show me wrong on this, I do look forward to seeing that. Ed Duh, forgot about telephoto compression. Agreed, these are for low speed areas where space matters. Thanks for all the help! |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 29, 2016 14:25:21 GMT -8
Yep, telephoto compression and angle of the photo for sure. For passenger cars I would think #6 is plenty tight. Here is a Walthers #6 double slip being fitted:  And after installation - dead center in the photo:  |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 29, 2016 15:26:01 GMT -8
If you're really brave, download the track diagram from Fast Tracks site and hand lay it.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 29, 2016 15:32:53 GMT -8
jonklein611,
South Station in Boston was built in 1899 with 30 #8 double slip switches, and these were 4-motor (moving frog) slips. Even then, 8-coupled steam engines (4-8-2, 4-8-4, etc.) were banned from traversing any switch when in the slip position as they tended to derail. #8 is about as tight as it gets in the real thing for passenger terminals, and South Station kept the #8's until the mid-1980's. Now they have larger ones.
Ed,
My club uses several #8 double slips on our mainline. We go through them at full speed all the time. The only problem we have is with operators not being able to figure out the correct routing. At our open houses, we run about 60 mph for exhibition purposes (people come to see the trains run, not to watch them crawl by). One of our show loop routings goes through a thrown Walthers #8 slip. So figure it takes about 15 min. to go around that division, and we might have up to 8 trains running on that division at one time. It's possible during a 7 hour open house that we could have about 200+ trains pass over this double slip at 60 mph or so. Add our 2nd day, and we're talking over 400 transits of the slip at speed in one weekend.
It's really not that big a deal...at least with a #8 in HO scale.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 29, 2016 16:01:48 GMT -8
Ed, My club uses several #8 double slips on our mainline. We go through them at full speed all the time. The only problem we have is with operators not being able to figure out the correct routing. At our open houses, we run about 60 mph for exhibition purposes (people come to see the trains run, not to watch them crawl by). One of our show loop routings goes through a thrown Walthers #8 slip. So figure it takes about 15 min. to go around that division, and we might have up to 8 trains running on that division at one time. It's possible during a 7 hour open house that we could have about 200+ trains pass over this double slip at 60 mph or so. Add our 2nd day, and we're talking over 400 transits of the slip at speed in one weekend. It's really not that big a deal...at least with a #8 in HO scale. Paul, I don't doubt that MODELS can traverse slip switches like, well, Acelas with broken speed governors. I was talking about REAL ones. Show me REAL high speed slip switches--say over 30 MPH, or so. My view is that if the prototype we're trying to model doesn't do something, then we should take pains to also try not do that. I try to run my trains at prototype speeds in yards. And, as far as I know, (real) slip switches are always in yards. Or maybe interlockings. Slow speed interlockings. I fully admit there can be times and places where it makes sense to "break the rule". In hidden trackage, where you're really not modeling a railroad, you're shuffling little teeny trains. Or if there's a show/open house, and the paying customers want to see lots of trains go. In THOSE and similar kinds of cases, I can accept it. But "We go through them at full speed all the time." Oh, no, no, no. Ed |
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Post by mvlandsw on Jul 29, 2016 17:34:54 GMT -8
In the late 1960's I spent some time at the Union Pacific depot in Topeka, Kansas. The Rock Island had trackage rights on the UP from Kansas city to Topeka. Just west of the depot the Rock Island single track line diverged from the UP double track using a single slip switch. I don't remember what speed was allowed.
Mark Vinski
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Post by lajrmdlr on Jul 29, 2016 17:39:38 GMT -8
On US RRs double slip switches are only used in passenger terminals so there's no need for high speed ones. Out on the mains they use No. 20+ switches for high speeds. And there's always plenty of room for more nearby switches if needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 21:08:49 GMT -8
Leavittsburg, Ohio, where the Erie Mainline crossed a B&O mainline, was one well-known use of double slip turnouts in the United States, in a mainline situation. Morning Sun Books documented this in their Erie/E-L books. The double slip turnouts were removed during the mid-1970's.
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Post by gmpullman on Jul 29, 2016 21:10:44 GMT -8
On US RRs double slip switches are only used in passenger terminals so there's no need for high speed ones. Out on the mains they use No. 20+ switches for high speeds. And there's always plenty of room for more nearby switches if needed. Here are two examples, both on the New York Central Buffalo-Chicago Main, both views looking east.  This view is BR tower CP-171 today at E.222nd St. In Cleveland. The globe-shaped water tank in the distance is Lincoln Electric. The single slip is on track 2 and beyond is a double slip on track 1. This photo dates to 1957 and they have since been removed. Back then, I don't recall any speed restrictions as far as I know, but perhaps when they were reversed, per signal indication. I've seen passenger trains through here doing at least 50.  Four miles west, still NYC tracks 4, 3, 2 & 1 from left, Cleveland Short Line on the far left and Cleveland Union Terminal beginning at the right. Although this view is 1928, there were still two double slips and one single slip in use in the late 1980s, under the control of QD tower on the right, Quaker tower today (closed) CP-175. P1a shed in the right distance. Regards, Ed |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 29, 2016 21:21:01 GMT -8
Ed,
Mansfield, MA had double slips on the mainline between Boston & Providence into the 1900's. The line from Taunton to Framingham, which was double track, crossed over the B&P mainline (also double track) using slips and diamonds. The B&P routing was straight through the slips. The Taunton/Framingham line used the slips when thrown. I believe this was all changed after a big wreck that wiped out the tower. Not because of the slips, but because a local freight crossed the main in front of the "Owl", which didn't stop because the lampman forgot to refill the semaphore lantern on the distant signal. To be fair, that interlocking was still manual block, and thus had a speed restriction (30mph, IIRC) through it.
On our layout, our mainline #8 slips are at the entrance to our major freight yard and passenger terminal so they don't look out of place; the trains are going slow over them during operation sessions. It's not like we plopped them down in the middle of nowhere. However, as I said, during our Open Houses they are used as part of our bypass track around the freight yard and we've never had a problem with the slips causing derailments at full speed.
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Post by gmpullman on Jul 29, 2016 21:49:43 GMT -8
That's interesting about Mansfield. My uncle was an operator at Webster Junction in the '50s and '60s. All "Armstrong" levers. I don't know if there were any slip switches, or puzzle switches as some railroaders called them. I have a YouTube video showing him at work here: 8MM Films, late 1950s
My approach off the main into Union Station use double slips, too. When lined for the main I allow track speed.  This is not a recent photo but you can see three #8 double slips in the distance. Of course, I use them as crossovers, too. Very convenient. I arranged a way to use a four-pole four position rotary switch to select the routes although that's old school with DCC and PanelPro routing available now. Ed |
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Post by lajrmdlr on Jul 30, 2016 8:18:44 GMT -8
Just like the prototype slip switches, model ones will be maintenance headaches!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 13:19:06 GMT -8
You can't say for certain that double slips will be maintenance headaches.
Good operation depends upon the quality of the turnout and how well the points align with the adjacent rail, etc.
When I used Peco double slip turnouts on a previous layout, the only issues I had were big steamers backing through them: if the pony or trailing trucks were not sprung, then the pony or trailing truck might derail. Adding a spring where needed solved any issues I experienced.
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Post by roadkill on Jul 30, 2016 14:37:40 GMT -8
Leavittsburg, Ohio, where the Erie Mainline crossed a B&O mainline, was one well-known use of double slip turnouts in the United States, in a mainline situation. Morning Sun Books documented this in their Erie/E-L books. The double slip turnouts were removed during the mid-1970's. I believe you're referring to Sterling, not Leavittsburg, as the Erie/EL didn't cross any B&O lines in Leavittsburg. In Sterling the Erie/EL main did cross the B&O's main but that crossing used movable point crossings, not slip switches. The diamonds were removed by Conrail in the very early '80s. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 15:36:27 GMT -8
Digging around online, at Leavittsburg the E-L Cleveland line joined the E-L main, so as was stated in the Morning Sun book caption, it is indeed possible there were double slip turnouts there and I just gave the wrong railroad name. My bad.
Although you can get online E-L track charts, I can't view them right on my computer...
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Post by gmpullman on Jul 30, 2016 19:10:38 GMT -8
Warren, Ohio (not far from Leavittsburg) had a gauntlet track on the Erie main through town. Also rather unusual and definitely an operating headache! Erie Railroad Main through Warren, Ohio
Fascinating photo to study... The main line was rerouted away from South Street by January of 1966. Ed |
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Post by elsdp45 on Jul 30, 2016 19:58:22 GMT -8
I grew up in Warren OH in the late 1960's through the 1980's. Yes the Erie Lackawanna did have two double slip switches where the first subdivision mainline crossed with the second subdivsion mainline at SN Jct in Leavittsburg OH.
The B&O (Chessie System) did not go through the junction. This was their old main from Youngstown and it stayed on the south side veering away at SN Jct to reconnect with the new main at Niles.
I know the double slip switches stayed in the plant through at least the early 80's. Going straight through the switches, the trains did track speed which was about 40 mph. With the switches reversed, speed was 30 mph.
Chris
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 30, 2016 20:56:05 GMT -8
Warren, Ohio (not far from Leavittsburg) had a gauntlet track on the Erie main through town. Also rather unusual and definitely an operating headache! Erie Railroad Main through Warren, Ohio
Fascinating photo to study... The main line was rerouted away from South Street by January of 1966. Ed All I get is a big white page. OTHERS may get the picture. I, sadly, do not. flickr (owned by the Wizards of Yahoo, I think) seems to have this problem, photobucket does not. I would suggest submitting a JPEG. Ed |
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Post by gmpullman on Jul 31, 2016 0:11:01 GMT -8
Sorry 'bout that... Every site/forum/blog seems to have their unique "personalities" I hope the photo is legible.  Photo Credit Josh Nativio: One of the long-time modelers in my area, Harley Smith (Smith & Sons Ballast) has a gauntlet on his HO layout just to make operations interesting! They seem to have a resurgence with the high-speed systems having a platform loading track and a high-speed through track setup as a gauntlet. Would make for an interesting trackage arrangement. I since recall another double slip in the Cleveland area on a main track. The former Nickel Plate/ N&W/ NW at East 34th St. had one, maybe two double slips at their connection with the Erie there. I have video showing the track arrangement as it was in 1973... Now, all I have to do is find it! Also: If anyone is interested here's the track diagram at Leavittsburg  I don't know if a double slip is shown specifically at the crossing. Anyone? Ed |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 31, 2016 7:31:11 GMT -8
Andy,
My club has been using eight Walthers #8 double slips for over 5 years, and we've never had a maintenance headache of any kind with them. I had one on my old layout for 10 years and I never had a maintenance problem, either.
In fact, at both my club and on my old layout, we've had far more problems with regular switches like busted points, bent points, broken throwbar, broken hinge joint, etc. None of these problems have occurred with any double slip.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 31, 2016 7:42:00 GMT -8
Thanks, Ed
I can see clearly now.......
Love the Studebaker!
Other Ed
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 31, 2016 8:41:05 GMT -8
edwardsutorik's comment about double slip switches only being for low-speed sent me back to some of my old ETT's. C&NW, ever the weird road, had two important junctions in commuter territory that used double slip switches as ladder tracks across mainlines. At Mayfair, the Cragin Subdivision crossed the Harvard Subdivision using double slips, and at Deval, the coach yard lead crossed the Harvard Subdivision using double slips and continued on to connect to the New Line. Here's Deval flic.kr/p/atLHdqMy 1981 ETT showed that at Deval, passenger trains that were not diverging were allowed 50 MPH over the double slip switches and freights were allowed 30. Track speed was otherwise 70 MPH for passenger and 60 for freight. And briefly in 1984, the original LA-Chicago double stack train ran through the double slip switches at both Deval and Mayfair until CNW could get a track lowered beneath the Belt Railway overpass at Cragin:  Detour stack train Des Plaines Deval Jct GP-50's Madison Sub by Mark LLanuza, on Flickr I can assure you that the freight was operating very slowly for this move. So while this is an example of mainline speeds over double slips, it is by far the extreme minority as railroads avoid using such switches absolutely anywhere possible. By 2008, UP had removed the double slips:  Deval 2008 by Jeff Klinefelter, on Flickr |
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