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Post by roadkill on Aug 1, 2016 10:34:10 GMT -8
I take it you whittle all your models out of chunks of home-grown American wood to avoid any of that unwelcome communing with foreigners you so despise? Wow..... that's a hell of a stretch... and pretty damn pathetic, too! Disliking foreign railroading means one hates foreigners? Just..... wow. Can't wrap my head around THAT one!. I happen to dislike foreign railroading as well, but I sure as hell don't hate foreigners! |
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Post by GP40P-2 on Aug 1, 2016 13:36:47 GMT -8
As of this year, it would almost seem that the NTS is following the convention into the arena of "an irrelevant also ran" for most of the model railroading community. There were <some> good announcements at the NTS, but no "big bang" announcements as in the past. NTS is turning into just another "Great Train Show," "Greenbergs" or whatever. Not exactly Springfield, MRIA (or whatever it is called nowadays) or Supertrain.
Yes we had some awesome announcements from Tangent and others (the Athearn "unveiling" of the SDP40F was almost obligatory to show that they attended), but I am guessing that the fall shows (that lead into "modeling season") will be more important in the future as the manufacturers focus on those, closer to modeling dollars being budgeted and spent. Maybe manufacturers are starting to see a pitfall in making large announcements to a rather small portion of the hobby community + whatever locals stroll through (then actually eventually buy)?
Sure the bigger <<manufacturers>> or the ones that can write off the trip would go to Europe, but I would bet that they will save the big booth with the full staff and the big announcements until the fall shows. Or would they even go if they have already been to the Nuremberg Toy Show earlier in the year? I seriously doubt US <<vendors>> would go due to the tangles of shipping and customs first into the UK and then back into the US, to sell some trains for a week.
Jim
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Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 1, 2016 16:09:48 GMT -8
Mike,
I think you read a lot more into Dave's statement than was there, even if it was there (that sounded weird huh?). His statement went straight to the point that he would not support any NMRA events outside of the US. That said, you went in on him pretty hard for what seemed to be quite simply a difference of opinion, which honestly warranted no further explanation.
There is no doubt that the NMRA has done much to advance the hobby, however, it not essential to one's enjoyment of the hobby.
Donnell
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 18:20:08 GMT -8
Please, save me the Kumbuya rhetoric. I don't believe in the NMRA. Never have and never will. Me not supporting the convention over there is hardly making enemies. I'm not wishing them ill will. I'm not obligated to like the NMRA, Canadian trains, English trains, or narrow gauge trains for that matter! Doesn't mean I'm wishing or plotting for anyone's ruination because I don't like foreign railroading. I'm allowed to not like something Mike, even if you feel I shouldn't be. Dave Dave, You can believe in whatever you want, even talk about it. It's part of what's great here. Lots of folks have spent time or even their lives defending that right. One of the first things I think of, having spent time as a military dependent/tripwire to discourage war in Europe back during the Cold War, is that things that make life there easier for those still stationed abroad, like positive cultural events where Americans and others can interact outside more formal duties, are good things. I guess I just don't see putting our worst foot forward and telling the world how much you dislike them is something that should go unremarked in a discussion likely to be read by thousands of non-US model railroaders in the future. The rest of the world is well aware of how some Americans are jerks (we export a lot of reality TV, for starts), so if they somehow think that about you, at least they know there's others among us who take a more sanguine view of the fact that our hobby is not isolated from the rest of the world. I take it you whittle all your models out of chunks of home-grown American wood to avoid any of that unwelcome communing with foreigners you so despise? What "right" are you referring to? This is a private forum and the owner/moderator has the absolute right to decide what is published. This isn't public/government property (thankfully). You were a tripwire as the dependent of someone in the military? Bwwwwwwaaaa.... I was but a lowly USN sailor, never got to tripwire. Tell me about it. Dave never said anything like "telling the world how much you dislike them". You just made that up, aka more BS. He said he didn't like Canadian or English trains or narrow gauge (including that in the USA I assume). So what? Why does that bother you? Surely, there must be a few things you don't like? I happen to like European culture and many European railroads. I've traveled extensively all over Europe on rail passes. But I don't model Euro railroads. Not my bag. And I don't care if the NMRA does a Euro show one way or the other. Well I do hope they don't scare too many people off, I wouldn't want Europeans to get the idea that all or even most North American model railroaders are NMRA members or supporters. I tire of your patronizing "social justice warrior" posts of late that have nothing to do with railroading, model or proto. But it's not my forum... As a railroader, I have to say you pump out more misinformation and pure fiction about prototype railroading than the next four high-volume BSers on this forum combined. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 18:24:05 GMT -8
I attended a train show at the Expo in Birmingham while there on a business trip. It was very interesting but mostly UK and EU trains with very little USA items at that time. It would seem that a National Train Show should be in the USA unless it is renamed to be called the International Train Show. It is always good enlarge the audience for our models since many overseas layouts do model our railroads. Larry Larry, ....We're only shooting ourselves in the foot when a few insist the rest of the world somehow has nothing of interest, value or worth and we should all just stay home so we can fulminate against the subversive tendencies of the NMRA to undermine that myopic world view. No one here said anything like that. |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 2, 2016 3:41:54 GMT -8
I attended a train show at the Expo in Birmingham while there on a business trip. It was very interesting but mostly UK and EU trains with very little USA items at that time. It would seem that a National Train Show should be in the USA unless it is renamed to be called the International Train Show. It is always good enlarge the audience for our models since many overseas layouts do model our railroads. Larry Larry, how long ago was that. My wife and I were in northern England Dec 2014 and visited a train club in Sunderland as well as Jon Grant (a UK modeler who used to post here regularly). Both the club and Jon had multiple layouts which was mostly US trains which I was surprised to see. I knew Jon had his Sweet Home Alabama RR he showed photo's of, as well as Sweet Home Chicago. But he also had a Virginian layout and at least one other. I think only one of his layouts was a UK type. The club was similar, mostly US type layouts. Some of the members had made trips over to the US to rail fan as well. I've noticed a number of UK modelers posting on forums - especially Brian Moore (bxmoore) and a few others. I don't know country-wide what the percentage is but it does seem US modeling is pretty popular in the UK. Definitely per capita there seems to be a much larger percentage of the population that are modelers vs. the US. I was in a shop in a suburb of Newcastle which has a large wall of magazines and counted some 35 different train related magazines there among the many other magazines. I was quite amazed. |
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Post by mlehman on Aug 2, 2016 23:56:00 GMT -8
Mike,
I think you read a lot more into Dave's statement than was there, even if it was there (that sounded weird huh?). His statement went straight to the point that he would not support any NMRA events outside of the US. That said, you went in on him pretty hard for what seemed to be quite simply a difference of opinion, which honestly warranted no further explanation.
There is no doubt that the NMRA has done much to advance the hobby, however, it not essential to one's enjoyment of the hobby.
DonnellDonnell, I didn't see any explanation for why Dave so dislikes the NMRA. Maybe that's assumed to be a natural reaction to a volunteer organization, because it's not essential to the hobby or something? As you note, non-essential, so Dave only need not join and that problem is solved, so I have to wonder about random drive-by accusatories with no substantive basis in an argument. Nope, the NMRA is just eviiiil and you better believe it. Not a word from anyone else that Dave's attack on the other Dave was really unwarranted. I can only assume NMRA Dave had nothing to do with anti-NMRA Dave's grudge, so how about just treating others a little better? Ultimately, silence in the face of such bullying behavior is regrettable to me. So I said something. W hatever basis anti-NMRA Dave has (still mysterious, but so intense it must remain unexplainable?) for disliking the NMRA was obviously extended by something -- don't know what, because Dave doesn't explain that anymore than his dislike of the NMRA -- to do with the organization going abroad, and for that same unexplained reason Dave wanted to make clear he wouldn't support that either. I simply suggested that, if he must bash the NMRA, try not to insinuate that there's something wrong about this brief foreign adventure that should further inflame his ill will towards, well, whatever inspires such insistent dislike. Dave even seems to think that his objections to the NMRA should somehow be immune from those who might object to his poorly articulated reasons. If you were a foreign fan of our hobby, what should you make of this? That Dave only intended to insult the NMRA? Only intended to insult first Dave? Doesn't like it that other Americans want to meet other model railroaders? Could be any of that. But it's really hard to be generous in seeing angry Dave's comments as neutral, justified, or reasonable in his reply to NMRA Dave. Someone might just object to the tone of such comments. If Dave wants to mumble through some angry objections for no clear reason, it would seem not unreasonable that someone else might complain in detail about the problems they have with Dave's comments. Why? It's pointless to blame foreigners for our problems -- Was Dave suggesting, insinuating, nodding at such an explanation for his NMRA-phobia? Maybe, maybe not, but if you're going to start throwing insults, then at least be clear who you're hurling them against. Consider the context this happened in. I do appreciate Dave came back and said that's not what he meant, that he meant no ill will and I'm satisfied with that. This is hard enough to parse what's going on when you have roughly the same language skills. So a good clear statement that there's no ill will involved towards anyone by Dave *to anyone but the NMRA, that is* is an improvement. People who live outside our country spend thousands of dollars to come here. I've run into them frequently on tourist lines and at conventions I've been to; . This is addition to whatever model items they might purchase. Whether Dave appreciates it or not, turning the tables and having Americans go aboard is both a cultural and economic opportunity for payback. Spreading what our hobby does builds demand that keeps prices lower than they other would be for us. Don't shoot the golden goose just because you feel obligated to diss the NMRA. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 3, 2016 5:18:17 GMT -8
Mike  You're rambling.... How do you get anything done in life with all your posts? just wondered. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 3, 2016 5:32:22 GMT -8
Mike,
Now I know that you are reading way more in to Dave's statement than was there. He responded to NMRA Dave's comment by simply stating that the NMRA would not receive his financial support for venues outside of the United States. I think his statement was very clear, and IMO needed no further clarification.
Is it not his right to spend his discretionary income as he chooses? If he chooses not to support the NMRA financially, then so be it. But I think it quite far of a stretch for you to insinuate that he had ill intent, or that his intent was to offend or blame anyone for anything.
The O.P. asked what peoples' thoughts were, and Dave response was in line with the O.P.
Donnell
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Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 3, 2016 5:36:46 GMT -8
Karl,
That was a cheap jab... keep it clean.
Thanks,
Donnell
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Post by roadkill on Aug 3, 2016 6:31:54 GMT -8
I didn't see any explanation for why Dave so dislikes the NMRA. Dave doesn't owe you or anyone else an explanation for his dislike of the NMRA. I have a strong dislike for them too and I don't owe you any explanation either. Quite frankly it's none of your bloody business why some dislike the NMRA. |
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Post by dharris on Aug 3, 2016 9:58:53 GMT -8
The NMRA's website lists nothing beyond one line for the 2019 show in Salt Lake City.
Nothing for 2020 or 2021 let alone 2022.
Has there been official publication via other means ?
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Post by bnsftcdiv on Aug 3, 2016 11:06:28 GMT -8
The website may or may not get updated....San Jose/Silicon Valley and then St Louis, or vice versa. Not sure on who get which year, just sites.
Dave...
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 3, 2016 15:05:35 GMT -8
Karl,
That was a cheap jab... keep it clean.
Thanks,
Donnell My nickel with a couple pennies change. I'll clean up after the horse...  |
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Post by carrman on Aug 4, 2016 19:07:04 GMT -8
Karl,
That was a cheap jab... keep it clean.
Thanks,
Donnell My nickel with a couple pennies change. I'll clean up after the horse... I'll grab a shovel too! And Mike, I've attacked NO ONE. And, I owe you NOTHING as far as an explanation. NOTHING. I'm not married to you or related to you, so I owe you ZIP. Dave |
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Post by Brakie on Aug 5, 2016 2:47:08 GMT -8
Dave,If I may,whenever folks I know on various forums says they don't like Athearn BB,Roundhouse,Accurail ect they usually very loud about saying why and they have no qualms about jabbing at folks that uses those brands as being less then a real modeler and they're just playing with toys.
As far as the NMRA it played and still plays a key role in the hobby even though it does need to improve in some areas.
Thank goodness the NMRA and members like my dad was around to set the standards and RPs that we take for granted today-even the DCC standards came from the NMRA. Manufacturers still follow those standards that's why your Atlas flex track works with other brands and every coupler pocket is standardized.
I'm not a NMRA member and haven't been for several years and while I never did like the MMR program I don't hate the NMRA.
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