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Post by curtmc on Sept 15, 2012 11:18:33 GMT -8
If you can't find something to purchase at Caboose Hobbies you probably need a new hobby........:-) The problem isn't finding something to purchase... It's finding the item you wanted to buy in the first place, or finding something in stock that you think is worth the price being asked for it. Any shop is going to end up with stagnant stock. In the old days they could make up for it by restocking those items or roadnames that sold well. With the pre-order fiasco they can't do that any more, plus the stagnant stock has much higher price/cost than it used to. Thus more shops are going to fail. And the manufacturers and distributors cutting the discounts is just going to pound the nails into the coffin that much quicker... |
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Post by atsfan on Sept 15, 2012 16:54:42 GMT -8
If you can't find something to purchase at Caboose Hobbies you probably need a new hobby........:-) The problem isn't finding something to purchase... It's finding the item you wanted to buy in the first place, or finding something in stock that you think is worth the price being asked for it. Any shop is going to end up with stagnant stock. In the old days they could make up for it by restocking those items or roadnames that sold well. With the pre-order fiasco they can't do that any more, plus the stagnant stock has much higher price/cost than it used to. Thus more shops are going to fail. And the manufacturers and distributors cutting the discounts is just going to pound the nails into the coffin that much quicker... Curt, I certainly agree with you. The hobby manufacturers seem to be self rushing to their own cliff. When stores are gone, so is much of the market. Caboose Hobbies is still such that there is so much in it that I find it hard not be able to get SOMETHING in it. Not sure how often you get into the store, but it is truly something. The best train store in the USA hands down. Period. And I have been in most of them. Others USED to be able to hold their own, but not now. Although even Caboose is not what it used to be...........  |
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Post by chessie77 on Sept 15, 2012 20:13:21 GMT -8
 Hey, Calzepher, just for you information, I think Overlands discount for brass models to dealers is 30%, meaning a $1100 locomotive costs them about $770.
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Post by mlehman on Sept 16, 2012 6:15:53 GMT -8
If you can't find something to purchase at Caboose Hobbies you probably need a new hobby........:-) The problem isn't finding something to purchase... It's finding the item you wanted to buy in the first place, or finding something in stock that you think is worth the price being asked for it. Any shop is going to end up with stagnant stock. In the old days they could make up for it by restocking those items or roadnames that sold well. With the pre-order fiasco they can't do that any more, plus the stagnant stock has much higher price/cost than it used to. Thus more shops are going to fail. And the manufacturers and distributors cutting the discounts is just going to pound the nails into the coffin that much quicker... Whatever. Warehouses and backrooms full of "stock" items will cause indigestion for CPAs and give new -- and unprofitable meaning -- to the word "stockholders." Any business that carries significant amounts of unsold stock for very long won't be long for this world...whether or not they engage in the boogeyman of the "pre-order fiasco." Besides, if you miss something went it comes out, there's always Ebay...which amounts to the world's vast, virtual stockroom for all that stuff you have nostalgia for finding in someone's crowded shop of 20-year old kits that didn't sell when they came out  |
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Post by drolsen on Sept 16, 2012 7:07:27 GMT -8
Caboose Hobbies is still such that there is so much in it that I find it hard not be able to get SOMETHING in it. Not sure how often you get into the store, but it is truly something. The best train store in the USA hands down. Period. And I have been in most of them. Caboose went through a rough patch about 5 or 6 years ago where a lot of us in Colorado (I was living there at the time) were concerned that they were at risk of going under. Their shelves were half empty, and they didn't have much in stock in the back. I think they were having trouble generating enough revenue to buy more stock. Fortunately, they managed to recover and seem to be back on track. Dave |
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Post by dti406 on Sept 16, 2012 7:52:52 GMT -8
Part of Caboose Hobbies problem is that they were their own and many other hobby shops along the Front Range distributor. When Athearn and MDC went to Horizon it changed their whole pricing and warehousing structure.
The big thing was even though they discounted all their Athearn, they still made more on each item than a store that sold for the full retail. Again losing Athearn hit them badly.
Regarding their brass sales, when the mainstay of the brass department left in the late eighties, the prices on the consignment brass skyrocketed as the remainder of the guys their would just take the consignee's price without telling them that the price was too high for the item to sell. I sold my unwanted items quickly as we set a reasonable price on the brass.
Regarding the personal property tax on inventory, Ohio, where I live, has junked that tax and gone with a Commercial Activities Tax (or Gross Receipts Tax) in place of that tax. This has led to school districts losing major amounts of income as the State is not giving them a cut of the CAT Tax.
Rick J
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Post by atsfan on Sept 16, 2012 8:01:23 GMT -8
There is a nice balance a store has to maintain between no inventory at all, versus walls of dusty old stuff at full MSRP.
Good stores figure this out. The others...............
I still never understand stores that hoard hundreds of items at full MSRP year after year after year.......
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Post by johndmock on Sept 16, 2012 13:28:07 GMT -8
Well, there are other fine train stores besides Caboose Hobbies...for those folks in the east, The Caboose has always maintained a nice inventory of brass models. I never got in the store myself, but have dealt with them numerous times at shows and through the mail. I also bought and sold models through Caboose Hobbies--but I always preferred to deal with The Caboose. Never entered either store---too far away.
As far as "those other stores that sell at full retail" some of them have their niche, and who am I to fault them. When I'm looking for a certain older Atlas or Kato diesel or now hard to find Kadee freight car, I know there's at least a reasonable chance the Amherst Depot will have it, and I don't mind paying full retail (yesterday's price) to get it. I've called them up and ordered from them, and I'd gladly do it again. Even my layaway experiences with them have been very positive experiences--the merchandise was brand new exactly as described.
If a store keeps items till they are the only ones who have the item, what is that to me if I "need" to buy it? I'll pay their price at that time. The Original Whistle Stop is another place I've never entered, but I do buy from at full retail or nearly full retail if they still have the item I need. Also The Train Station in Ohio.
At this point, in this economy, perhaps we should take a moment to stop, chill out, and stop criticizing the wonderful train stores that remain. If their business models have allowed them to survive, it's probably because they make their customers happy in ways beyond merely the price markdown! One cannot put a price on customer service.
I was recently thrilled to be able to buy some older Proto 2000 units from The Station in New Cumberland, PA--I was just glad to find the units and even better, to be able to trade for them. Those folks are great and provide great value to their customers beyond the price markdown from retail.
If I want to be selfish and always get the best price, I would miss out on all the relationships developed at the local train stores that still exist...how can we put a price on that? Of course I want reasonable prices, but I want the stores to make a living too--and to be around tomorrow. I order from M.B. Klein when easy and convenient, or when they blow out the items on sale, but just as often I still buy locally where I can personally check out the stuff I'm buying.
John
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Post by calzephyr on Sept 16, 2012 17:39:28 GMT -8
Hey, Calzepher, just for you information, I think Overlands discount for brass models to dealers is 30%, meaning a $1100 locomotive costs them about $770. Thanks. I was not sure what the numbers were but that a problem for the dealers since the new diesels recently have listed for $1065, the wholesale price at 70% would be $745. As a dealer working on a limited budget, it takes real guts to order stock that is not sold!!! The brass market is slow now and I continue to look for great used buys of items that I really want. Larry |
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Post by drolsen on Sept 16, 2012 21:31:13 GMT -8
I still never understand stores that hoard hundreds of items at full MSRP year after year after year....... There's a hobby shop in Timonium north of Baltimore (a couple miles from M.B. Klein) called Yorktowne Hobby Shop. It's been there forever - I used to love to go in there as a kid when we'd go to the IHOP next door for Sunday brunch. It's the classic hobby shop with military models, cars, ships, RC, crafts, and a small train section, plus a display case of customers' finished military models up front. They even have the classic key-duplicating machine behind the counter. I still like going to the place, even if the prices are high. It's a great place to browse and pick up basic supplies. However, their train section leaves a lot to be desired - last time I was in there a year or so ago, they still had an original run Life-Like BL2 in the display case, along with other models of similar vintage, all at full list price. But it's still a good place for kids in the neighborhood to pick out their first model trains to get them started in the hobby. Hopefully they're not suffering too much from Klein's move to the neighborhood. Dave |
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Post by el3637 on Sept 16, 2012 22:50:07 GMT -8
last time I was in there a year or so ago, they still had an original run Life-Like BL2 in the display case, along with other models of similar vintage, all at full list price. One hobby shop here that was always full sticker price just stopped getting new items for stock. They'd order anything for you, and their service was pretty good. I pre-ordered all of the Randall Pullman Standard Library series (16 volumes) and IIRC it was nearly a decade before they were all released.. and they got me every book I ordered. But I remember asking him about ordering some of this or that (new run stuff) and he said "I'll die with it". I remember thinking it's a lot more likely he'll die with all those 1971 AHM passenger cars at full price, or that brown-box Tyco, Life-Like, even early run P2K at full list. He did. He had an inventory of P2K E units... not a lot, but I guess after the initial release he had maybe a dozen first run units left on the shelf. At the full sticker of $85. This was when Johnnys was dumping their stock for $25, and show dealers even cheaper. He just *never* discounted. Stayed in business because his shop was very, very low overhead. He once asked me if I'd like to make a few extra bucks doing repairs. I'm thinking ok, once a week or two I'd stop by and pick up repair orders and parts, bring them back when I got them done, and get paid by the job. Nope, he wanted me to work *in* the store, and get paid by the hour. At minimum wage. He did have a few guys who were retired that worked on those terms, both in the store at large and doing repairs. But really, he stayed in business doing special orders and some custom work for some loyal customers with lots of money.. and doing it all as a sideline from his day job, with very low overhead. I ran into a couple guys at a show in 2009(?) selling some of his inventory - easy to recognize it. Hope they didn't pay too much. I did appreciate having the shop there, and I spent plenty of money there between 1982 and 2008 when he closed up due to health, I think he passed away in 09. I didn't mind paying sticker for parts, decals, books... he was very reliable at getting that stuff, and in some cases keeping it in stock. Also bought some brass from him at full monty... IMO his service was always good, but he could and did PO people at times, and in some cases alienated some long term customers. New business was a problem, because anybody that he didn't recognize (and some that he did) got followed around and every move was watched. I was one of the few who had "behind the counter" privileges. Not when the owner was there though :-) Sometimes I'd ask for this or that, and one of the old guys working there would say, "Heck you know where it is - come on back and get it - you can find it faster than I can". Detail parts were all in drawers - impeccably organized - but not very browsable. Ironically, I organize all my detail parts that way now, and when I want something from my own stash, I go to Walthers on line to get the part# so I can easily find it in my bins. Andy |
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Post by calzephyr on Sept 17, 2012 11:43:16 GMT -8
last time I was in there a year or so ago, they still had an original run Life-Like BL2 in the display case, along with other models of similar vintage, all at full list price. One hobby shop here that was always full sticker price just stopped getting new items for stock. They'd order anything for you, and their service was pretty good. I pre-ordered all of the Randall Pullman Standard Library series (16 volumes) and IIRC it was nearly a decade before they were all released.. and they got me every book I ordered. But I remember asking him about ordering some of this or that (new run stuff) and he said "I'll die with it". I remember thinking it's a lot more likely he'll die with all those 1971 AHM passenger cars at full price, or that brown-box Tyco, Life-Like, even early run P2K at full list. He did. He had an inventory of P2K E units... not a lot, but I guess after the initial release he had maybe a dozen first run units left on the shelf. At the full sticker of $85. This was when Johnnys was dumping their stock for $25, and show dealers even cheaper. He just *never* discounted. Stayed in business because his shop was very, very low overhead. He once asked me if I'd like to make a few extra bucks doing repairs. I'm thinking ok, once a week or two I'd stop by and pick up repair orders and parts, bring them back when I got them done, and get paid by the job. Nope, he wanted me to work *in* the store, and get paid by the hour. At minimum wage. He did have a few guys who were retired that worked on those terms, both in the store at large and doing repairs. But really, he stayed in business doing special orders and some custom work for some loyal customers with lots of money.. and doing it all as a sideline from his day job, with very low overhead. I ran into a couple guys at a show in 2009(?) selling some of his inventory - easy to recognize it. Hope they didn't pay too much. I did appreciate having the shop there, and I spent plenty of money there between 1982 and 2008 when he closed up due to health, I think he passed away in 09. I didn't mind paying sticker for parts, decals, books... he was very reliable at getting that stuff, and in some cases keeping it in stock. Also bought some brass from him at full monty... IMO his service was always good, but he could and did PO people at times, and in some cases alienated some long term customers. New business was a problem, because anybody that he didn't recognize (and some that he did) got followed around and every move was watched. I was one of the few who had "behind the counter" privileges. Not when the owner was there though :-) Sometimes I'd ask for this or that, and one of the old guys working there would say, "Heck you know where it is - come on back and get it - you can find it faster than I can". Detail parts were all in drawers - impeccably organized - but not very browsable. Ironically, I organize all my detail parts that way now, and when I want something from my own stash, I go to Walthers on line to get the part# so I can easily find it in my bins. Andy Andy I have experienced a couple of shops like the one you described. It is sad that they go away after the owner passes, but a shop like that cannot be sold as a business. No bank will loan on the P&L. Our hobby is really a great passtime, but very few new full service trains shops can make money. If you want to become a millionaire in the train business, you better have several million to start with!!Larry |
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 17, 2012 16:16:23 GMT -8
last time I was in there a year or so ago, they still had an original run Life-Like BL2 in the display case, along with other models of similar vintage, all at full list price. Dave And probably sitting on its original cracked axles, with the gearbox locked up from all the peanut butter lube. |
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Post by calzephyr on Sept 18, 2012 15:41:04 GMT -8
last time I was in there a year or so ago, they still had an original run Life-Like BL2 in the display case, along with other models of similar vintage, all at full list price. Dave And probably sitting on its original cracked axles, with the gearbox locked up from all the peanut butter lube. I purchased one of the original FA-2 models back in the eighties era and it has been in the box for thirty years or so. I tried it a few years ago and it barely ran. It is probably in need of a cleaning of the gear boxes also. I was not aware of cracked gears on all of the old P2K models. I know the Geeps certainly had the problem. Larry |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2012 16:24:12 GMT -8
And probably sitting on its original cracked axles, with the gearbox locked up from all the peanut butter lube. I purchased one of the original FA-2 models back in the eighties era and it has been in the box for thirty years or so. I tried it a few years ago and it barely ran. It is probably in need of a cleaning of the gear boxes also. I was not aware of cracked gears on all of the old P2K models. I know the Geeps certainly had the problem. Larry The cracked gear issue on the P2K's is generally limited to the four axle models. Six axle models like the E8, SD7, etc. are not prone to cracking. But, if a model is OLD or OLDER as I've found working on the UP DD35A and DD35B project, axle gears will be cracked. I've found about half the axle gears on the DD40 drives which I'll be using have cracked gears. My drives are from the LAST Athearn production run of this model featuring the "gold standard" scale width hood motor and turned flywheels. The axle gears are long sleeved on these models because their axle end rides in the side frame. Yet they still cracked at the mold line where the two halves of the mold join. Remember, the axle is a little bit larger than the opening in the gear. Over time the pressure of stuffing 6 pounds in a 5 pound bag, causes the bag to start to split.......  |
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Post by bnsf971 on Sept 18, 2012 16:49:42 GMT -8
The cracked gear issue on the P2K's is generally limited to the four axle models. Six axle models like the E8, SD7, etc. are not prone to cracking. I bought one of the last LifeLike Proto E6's with DCC/sound (new from my LHS), and all six axles were cracked. After Walthers told me to go pound sand, I went and bought some Athearn gears, which worked fine in it. |
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 18, 2012 18:03:15 GMT -8
I purchased one of the original FA-2 models back in the eighties era and it has been in the box for thirty years or so. I tried it a few years ago and it barely ran. It is probably in need of a cleaning of the gear boxes also. I was not aware of cracked gears on all of the old P2K models. I know the Geeps certainly had the problem. Larry The cracked gear issue on the P2K's is generally limited to the four axle models. Six axle models like the E8, SD7, etc. are not prone to cracking. But, if a model is OLD or OLDER as I've found working on the UP DD35A and DD35B project, axle gears will be cracked. I've found about half the axle gears on the DD40 drives which I'll be using have cracked gears. My drives are from the LAST Athearn production run of this model featuring the "gold standard" scale width hood motor and turned flywheels. The axle gears are long sleeved on these models because their axle end rides in the side frame. Yet they still cracked at the mold line where the two halves of the mold join. Remember, the axle is a little bit larger than the opening in the gear. Over time the pressure of stuffing 6 pounds in a 5 pound bag, causes the bag to start to split....... Generally minor cracks at the edges are no trouble, say on those longer Athearn axle gears with the sideframe pickups, as long as the gear holds the wheels tight and the crack is only at the edge. But they tend to develop into bigger cracks over time so get the replacements handy.  It's the shorter axle gears, more specifically the P2K ones, that like to crack all the way through. The clunking noise is when the crack has occurred where the gear teeth are and pushed them out of alignment. I've had P2K locos with only minor cracks on the axle gear edges (some I still use), some that have split all the way through, and a few that have mysteriously only split in the middle where the gear teeth are...funny how that works sometimes. The Athearn RS3 made from ex-MDC tooling that used the P2K trucks, yup, those were known to split too. Athearn sent me some new wheel assemblies for mine, unfortunately they had Superman vice-press them on to 42" wheelsets (should be 40"). |
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Hey, Calzepher, just for you information, I think Overlands discount for brass models to dealers is 30%, meaning a $1100 locomotive costs them about $770.
