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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 9, 2016 14:31:55 GMT -8
If we are going there, a software engineer is a modeler, I think not. Perhaps the person who USES his sooper-dooper railroad simulator would be, since that user will be making intentional choices of variables--thus making a sort of model. a fashion model is a MODEL, not a modeler. The designer could be called a modeler. Again, he makes choices--thus creating a model. I can go with this, at least as far as possibly also accepting sculptors and painters as modelers. see fashion model comment above. Ed
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Post by GP40P-2 on Dec 9, 2016 15:57:57 GMT -8
Whooooosh!!! What was that? A Scale trains SD40-2 post way back around page 2 or there abouts.
Great discussion on "what is a modeler", but maybe it needs its own thread?
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Dec 9, 2016 16:10:41 GMT -8
Brian, Wow. Do you always swear when someone disagrees with you?
So what is your opinion of what a modeler is? I've given mine. From what I can gather, it appears that you think only people who build models are modelers. Since a guy who buys RTR models is not a modeler and people who operate trains are not modeling, it figures that a person who paints brass engines without making any modifications to them is also not a modeler, right? He's just a painter. It's not like he built them.
But how about an Athearn BB kit builder? Are they modelers?
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Post by dharris on Dec 9, 2016 16:16:08 GMT -8
dharris, why do you come to these forums? Are we not allowed to voice our passions and opinions? Isn't that what this whole social media thing is. Having conversations about what moves you to be in this hobby? Mr. dharris, it is called a conversation. We all have opinions. Some are stronger than others. I get along with everyone. But I am not going to go along and shut up. These forums are here for us to "converse". Apposing opinions are not bad. I take my modeling seriously and enjoy the art of modeling. I can also comment on what I see and I am not asking anyone to agree with me simply for the sake of agreeing. I am stating my argument and opinion. So dharris. Please go ahead and get along to get along and go play with your trains. Brian I have lost track of what your argument even is. If you dislike the Scale Trains SD40-2 so much, why are you spending so much time foaming about it? Just don't buy any and scratch build your own.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 16:21:57 GMT -8
I was not upset or am upset that you disagree with me or anyone who disagrees with me. I was frustrated that your feeble mind can't grasp what I am referring to or you just want to start a pissing match because you know darn well what I was referring to. So Paul, I am not going to get into a pissing match with you.
As Mr. gp40p-2 suggested. If you want to start a new thread and debate what a modeler is. Its an open forum. I am confident in my position and I believe most folks on this forum understand what I am referring to.
Brian
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Post by Donnell Wells on Dec 9, 2016 16:46:03 GMT -8
Hi everyone, I am going to agree with Brian on this one. A modeler (or modeller) is someone that creates models, and buying an RTR model does not make one a modeler. However, it may qualify one as a model railroader depending on how the model is utilized. Now, adding detail to, or altering an RTR model to represent an actual prototype does make one a modeler.
Donnell
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 17:10:51 GMT -8
dharris, why do you come to these forums? Are we not allowed to voice our passions and opinions? Isn't that what this whole social media thing is. Having conversations about what moves you to be in this hobby? Mr. dharris, it is called a conversation. We all have opinions. Some are stronger than others. I get along with everyone. But I am not going to go along and shut up. These forums are here for us to "converse". Apposing opinions are not bad. I take my modeling seriously and enjoy the art of modeling. I can also comment on what I see and I am not asking anyone to agree with me simply for the sake of agreeing. I am stating my argument and opinion. So dharris. Please go ahead and get along to get along and go play with your trains. Brian I have lost track of what your argument even is. If you dislike the Scale Trains SD40-2 so much, why are you spending so much time foaming about it? Just don't buy any and scratch build your own. I do not dislike the ScaleTrains SD40-2. Nowhere in any of my posts did I suggest I disliked it. In fact I praised it on a number of different occasions as the best starting point for an SD40-2 to date. It has issues, but I have not once said to not buy it. My original point was that I look at this model from the point of view of a modeler and not an RTRer or good enougher. I am not using RTR or good enougher as a derogatory statement. Only to differentiate between standards (as I am sure this statement will get blown out of proportion too). I am currently a freight car RTRer. I hope to change that soon, but right now I am a diesel modeler. My original argument too is that NO manufacturer can build or assemble a model better than a skilled modeler. However you want to define modeler is up to you. In this context, I define a modeler as someone who "builds" models. A good enougher IS a modeler because they are at least adding or enhancing the RTR model to a standard that is good enough for them. They are doing something to it. Contemporary diesel locomotives from F-units up to the SD40-2 are my specialty. I am not at all satisfied with any manufactures finished product because THEY cannot build a model or assemble a model better than I can. It is impossible because their workers are only assemblers. Nothing more. They do not care about the end product other than they get a paycheck at the end of each week. If it was different, you would not see mold parting lines, parts installed crooked, glue blobs and just plain bad assembly. My negative comments about ScaleTrains are that they should take a good close look at their photos before releasing them. And my final point is undecs. The modeler is losing them more and more as the years go on because the RTR crowd is happy with what they get and they outnumber the modeler. So the RTR dollar is telling the manufacturers to build the models for them goobers and all. Brian
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Post by Donnell Wells on Dec 9, 2016 17:18:29 GMT -8
Good lord Surrender Monkees Riding on the coat tails Operating is not Model Railroadiing Can't we all just get along ?! It is all just playing with trains as a hobby for fun Or relaxation or enjoyment. Get over it and go have fun ? Everyone's participation in this hobby is subjective. Some maintain strict adherence to prototype fidelity while others create fantasy. No one way is better than another, and if buying RTR models brings you enjoyment, that's fine. If building accurate scale models bring enjoyment to others, that is great as well.
Donnell
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Post by Brakie on Dec 9, 2016 17:19:45 GMT -8
Hi everyone, I am going to agree with Brian on this one. A modeler (or modeller) is someone that creates models, and buying an RTR model does not make one a modeler. However, it may qualify one as a model railroader depending on how the model is utilized. Now, adding detail to, or altering an RTR model to represent an actual prototype does make one a modeler.
Donnell Donnell,After 60 years in the hobby I consider myself a lot of things a modeler, a member of the RTR gang, a model railroader, a former brakeman yet, it doesn't bother me to know I never put a craftsmen structure kit or a freight car with a zillion itty bitty pieces together. For me that has always been a Eh! nice but, not my cup and yet I manage to fully enjoy the hobby for 60 years. What I do know is when I operate my ISL basic safety and operating rules are in effect. You will not see high speed crash couplings that moves the standing car 10 scale feet down the track, nor will I have any switch line before my train comes to a complete stop nor will you see a crash and shove switching nor high speed switching. I also allow time for the switchman to unlock and line the switch and derail, set or release the handbrakes etc. That would make me a railroad modeler. After all I am utilizing my 9 1/2 years experience as a brakeman in my operation..
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 19:14:55 GMT -8
I have lost track of what your argument even is. If you dislike the Scale Trains SD40-2 so much, why are you spending so much time foaming about it? Just don't buy any and scratch build your own. I do not dislike the ScaleTrains SD40-2. Nowhere in any of my posts did I suggest I disliked it. In fact I praised it on a number of different occasions as the best starting point for an SD40-2 to date. It has issues, but I have not once said to not buy it. My original point was that I look at this model from the point of view of a modeler and not an RTRer or good enougher. I am not using RTR or good enougher as a derogatory statement. Only to differentiate between standards (as I am sure this statement will get blown out of proportion too). I am currently a freight car RTRer. I hope to change that soon, but right now I am a diesel modeler. My original argument too is that NO manufacturer can build or assemble a model better than a skilled modeler. However you want to define modeler is up to you. In this context, I define a modeler as someone who "builds" models. A good enougher IS a modeler because they are at least adding or enhancing the RTR model to a standard that is good enough for them. They are doing something to it.
<<snip>> And my final point is undecs. T he modeler is losing them more and more as the years go on because the RTR crowd is happy with what they get and they outnumber the modeler. So the RTR dollar is telling the manufacturers to build the models for them goobers and all. Brian I agree with Brian as well.
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Dec 9, 2016 19:55:22 GMT -8
Shane:
...back to the original reason for the post.
I, for one, greatly appreciate the efforts that went into researching and producing a quality model of the SD-40-2 and posting photos for your future clients to review.
I see the CSX Dash 3's all the time on the mainline that runs through town and hope Scale Trains versions are ready about the time my layout is near completion.
My work schedule plus civic and family commitments has cut way down on my model railroading time and building and super-detailing of locos and rolling stock requires the most effort so R-T-R models are perfect for me.
I can concentrate on structures, scenery, track laying, design, benchwork, wiring and limited DCC installations and leave the tedious work to Scale Trains, ExactRail, Tangent, Intermountain and Athearn.
Congratulations and much success
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Post by canrailfan on Dec 9, 2016 20:28:19 GMT -8
... How much more trouble would it be to tell the factory to take X number of trees off the line before they go to paint? Say they wanted to produce 1000 undecorated kits. The factory pulls off the line 1000 of each tree. Bags them and puts them in a box with a frame/drive train/electronics. Done. Just a thought. Make it perfectly clear that there are no instructions. It is the responsibility of the modeler to understand how to build the model. There are very few modelers that do not understand how to put these things together. Brian This is the most interesting comment in this thread. I like this idea and would buy such a "kit." That's really what's at the heart of this discussion, kits or RTR. I think the manufacturers have overlooked the potential of true kits as a way to sell more models. Instead of, as Brian says, just putting the sprues into a bag and packaging them with a chassis, manufacturers turned kits (they call them un-decorated models) into a headache for themselves by doing too much, cutting parts off sprues, then having to count them to ensure enough of each part is included and wrapping them up in many little plastic bags. Why? As far as instructions, just enclose the usual exploded parts diagram they put in the RTR models. It has been said by a number of manufacturers that their major expense in making a RTR model is the assembly of its 200 to 350 parts and the painting and lettering. For example, Bowser can do all their design, mold making and injection casting in the U.S. but must then send all the parts to China for assembly and finishing. Is it not feasible to just package the same sprues they send to China in a kit with a chassis (which probably would come from China) and let kit builders buy it? There a significant number of prototype modellers and others who end up modifying (thereby destroying much of the work done in China) expensive RTR models to build the models they want. I have an Atlas GP38-2 on my workbench right now as a prime example. The kit price could/should be lower than the RTR price, something most undecorated models have not been.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 20:40:09 GMT -8
David, you are dear to my heart.
Brian
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 21:16:07 GMT -8
... How much more trouble would it be to tell the factory to take X number of trees off the line before they go to paint? Say they wanted to produce 1000 undecorated kits. The factory pulls off the line 1000 of each tree. Bags them and puts them in a box with a frame/drive train/electronics. Done. Just a thought. Make it perfectly clear that there are no instructions. It is the responsibility of the modeler to understand how to build the model. There are very few modelers that do not understand how to put these things together. Brian This is the most interesting comment in this thread. I like this idea and would buy such a "kit." That's really what's at the heart of this discussion, kits or RTR. I think the manufacturers have overlooked the potential of true kits as a way to sell more models. Instead of, as Brian says, just putting the sprues into a bag and packaging them with a chassis, manufacturers turned kits (they call them UN-decorated models) into a headache for themselves by doing too much, cutting parts off sprues, then having to count them to ensure enough of each part is included and wrapping them up in many little plastic bags. Why? As far as instructions, just enclose the usual exploded parts diagram they put in the RTR models. It has been said by a number of manufacturers that their major expense in making a RTR model is the assembly of its 200 to 350 parts and the painting and lettering. For example, Bowser can do all their design, mold making and injection casting in the U.S. but must then send all the parts to China for assembly and finishing. Is it not feasible to just package the same sprues they send to China in a kit with a chassis (which probably would come from China) and let kit builders buy it? There a significant number of prototype modellers and others who end up modifying (thereby destroying much of the work done in China) expensive RTR models to build the models they want. I have an Atlas GP38-2 on my workbench right now as a prime example. The kit price could/should be lower than the RTR price, something most undecorated models have not been. YES!!!!! It would be a dream come true for modelers! All we need is the ability to pre-order the model in this form...and we're SET. We call them "Super Undecs". Just leave the parts on the sprues...we'll de-sprue 'em. We'll clean off the mold parting lines...we'll assemble them ourselves...
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Post by Brakie on Dec 9, 2016 22:35:28 GMT -8
How much more trouble would it be to tell the factory to take X number of trees off the line before they go to paint? Say they wanted to produce 1000 undecorated kits. The factory pulls off the line 1000 of each tree. Bags them and puts them in a box with a frame/drive train/electronics. Done. Just a thought. Make it perfectly clear that there are no instructions. It is the responsibility of the modeler to understand how to build the model. There are very few modelers that do not understand how to put these things together.
Brian ----------------------------------------- Brian,That would work for those that wants undecorated or shoot maybe even decorated kits. Like everything today they would need to be pre ordered.
I'm buying the operator SD40-2 with DCC/Sound and will order the detail parts bag later.
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Post by dharris on Dec 10, 2016 5:09:47 GMT -8
People do not understand how these things are tooled. There are not sprues with all of the parts put on them so you can just pull some from the line. That is how it is done if you are building for a kit (like a plastic model of a plane)
But that is not what you do if you are tooling for RTR. A sprue will have many of the same part on it, to be cut off and used enmasse on an assembly line.
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Post by Brakie on Dec 10, 2016 6:25:26 GMT -8
People do not understand how these things are tooled. There are not sprues with all of the parts put on them so you can just pull some from the line. That is how it is done if you are building for a kit (like a plastic model of a plane) But that is not what you do if you are tooling for RTR. A sprue will have many of the same part on it, to be cut off and used enmasse on an assembly line. As you know ST will be releasing a detail parts bag for upgrading the Operator SD40-2s so, I doubt if they will just dump tiny parts into one big freezer bag so, yes,sprues of undecorated detail parts could be done.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 7:24:42 GMT -8
dharris, you are correct. I do not understand how these things are tooled. Your short explanation is the first time I have ever been educated on how it is done. If that is the case, then bagged sprue trees would not work. But instead of despruing the parts, just cut the trees up. The factory workers can't even cut a part off the tree correctly. Take a real close look on the ScaleTrains web site at the BN units windows. It appears whoever desprued the window glass just twisted them off and stressed the edge of the windows that were connected to the sprue. I do understand that all this is banter over pre-production models. We hope these are pre-production models. How many times have pre-production models become production models? I cancelled my order for one a couple weeks ago. I will wait to see what the production model looks like before I dive in. If they fix the errors and tooling and offer undecorated kits, I will be very happy to throw my hobby dollars their way. If they do not fix the errors and tooling, then I will simply plod along with what I already have. ScaleTrains definitely did not put their best foot forward with these photos. They had to know they were going to get hammered for them. I do not know who took the photos, but if ScaleTrains paid for them. They got ripped off. So getting back to the conversation. How to improve this model to be THE quintessential SD40-2 model. Detail Oriented: 1. Add the builders mark to the side frames. 2. Fix the tooling to remove the mold lines. 3. Redo the fan grill photo etch to be multi layer. 4. Photo etch the drop steps with tread plate on them. 5. Use a Kato motor. 6. Offer undecorated kits or the ability to kit a model off your web site. RTR version: 1. Find out how Atlas does their paintwork and copy that method. 2. Teach your assemblers how to cut parts from the parts tree. 3. Teach your assemblers how to assemble a model "properly". 4. Use a different silver that is not Christmas glitter on your UP truck side frames. 5. Use a Kato motor. 6. Mold longer pins on the handrail stanchions to help them stand up straight. Or slightly oversize the handrails to remove the wave. Or figure out how Atlas does their handrails because they are straight. Or metal spin cast your handrails with dental steel (See Photo). Dental steel does not shrink. Just a few suggestions: Fire the person who assembled your pre-production samples and Find capable people who can properly assemble your marketing models. Fire the photographer and find someone who has at least a rudimentary knowledge of photography. Don't use a point and shoot camera. Shane, your supposed to be the salesman. These photos are not helping you sell this model. There is obviously GREAT potential for this model. There are a lot of positive features on this model. Brian
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 8:18:06 GMT -8
I run a pair of Rapido F40's in a circle, pulling 8 superliners and a baggage car. I think Jason (of Rapido) once called it "playing roundy round". I have a lot of fun with my toys. Now that I've hopefully offended every single one of you "real" "modelers", I'd like to add that I wouldn't mind a painted but unassembled engine. I don't want to deal with painting or getting the decals in the right location and straight, but I have no problem adding detail parts with a dab of glue. And it beats the pants off of undoing what's been done so I can re-do it over again with better parts.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Dec 10, 2016 8:52:35 GMT -8
Hi everyone, I am going to agree with Brian on this one. A modeler (or modeller) is someone that creates models, and buying an RTR model does not make one a modeler. However, it may qualify one as a model railroader depending on how the model is utilized. Now, adding detail to, or altering an RTR model to represent an actual prototype does make one a modeler.
Donnell Beg to differ. If you are building one of Brian's excellent locomotives, you are a locomotive modeler. However, if you have a 30 x40 basement and 500 feet of track that ready to run right out of the box Kato SD-40-2 in your favorite paint scheme is no more than a 'detail part' on your MODEL of a railroad than a set of Nathan KLA brass horns is on Brian's locomotive. Both individuals are modelers. It's a degree of scale. Sorry to see the nasty scale of discourse on this thread. It saddens me.
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Post by Brakie on Dec 10, 2016 9:17:27 GMT -8
Fire the person who assembled your pre-production samples and Find capable people who can properly assemble your marketing models. ---------------------------------- Yeah,Right a American company is able to hire/fire the contractor's employees in China. Better would be to find a better contractor--if that is even possible in China- or go to Japan or Germany and find a model contractor that specializes in models.
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Post by avel on Dec 10, 2016 11:35:29 GMT -8
Wow, very nice models! Amazing detailing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 11:54:06 GMT -8
As far as the model goes...it's THE BEST TOOLED 2nd Generation Diesel I have seen to date, IMO. It surpasses the GP15-1 from Genesis; The GP38-2/40-2/50 from Genesis; and even the Atlas MP15DC...IMO.
I will differ with Brian on the motor...as I think their motors are superb...based on the Turbine I saw at the Indianapolis Train show...very nice and quiet.
If they fix the truck side frames...adding the builder raised lettering; and fix the fit and finish issues; I'm going to be very happy. They will fix the mold release line around the short hood. The under frame and detailing is second to NONE, IMO. I'm wanting my 4 BN units badly...and future MP units...so my points here are based on trying to get the things that I see wrong fixed...they would have a superb model.
Brian is correct on the fit and finish...and If I were working at their factory...I WOULDN'T DARE send Shane or Mike ANY engine to show for marketing that looked like those did. The fit and finish for pre-production is "a piece of sand paper away or a small file...and a pair of PBL sprue nippers."
ST is NOT going to release (or at least currently aren't) a true "super undec" as they say it's a pain to do so...So, I'm going to agree with dharris in saying that I don't know how these things are done anymore...and I'll leave that to the Company to decide on what they will or will not do. It's not a deal breaker for me...but I'd be a buyer of their Super Undec.
I'm going to wait and see what comes...but I have faith in Paul, Shane, and Mike and Co. to make the necessary corrections. The under frame detailing is AWESOME. It's nice to see manufacturers attending to that...I really like the touch in regards to the traction motors on the side frames...as well as the sanding lines/brackets.
So, I'm grateful to see this model finally getting its' due...and I think the constructive criticism will help ensure it and future products live up to the "See the Difference" moniker.
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Post by TBird1958 on Dec 10, 2016 12:48:09 GMT -8
Photography of scale models is a hard anvil to test anyone's modeling skills against, even more so for any production piece.
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Dec 10, 2016 13:26:30 GMT -8
dharris, you are correct. I do not understand how these things are tooled. Your short explanation is the first time I have ever been educated on how it is done. If that is the case, then bagged sprue trees would not work. But instead of despruing the parts, just cut the trees up. The factory workers can't even cut a part off the tree correctly. Take a real close look on the ScaleTrains web site at the BN units windows. It appears whoever desprued the window glass just twisted them off and stressed the edge of the windows that were connected to the sprue. I do understand that all this is banter over pre-production models. We hope these are pre-production models. How many times have pre-production models become production models? I cancelled my order for one a couple weeks ago. I will wait to see what the production model looks like before I dive in. If they fix the errors and tooling and offer undecorated kits, I will be very happy to throw my hobby dollars their way. If they do not fix the errors and tooling, then I will simply plod along with what I already have. ScaleTrains definitely did not put their best foot forward with these photos. They had to know they were going to get hammered for them. I do not know who took the photos, but if ScaleTrains paid for them. They got ripped off. So getting back to the conversation. How to improve this model to be THE quintessential SD40-2 model. Detail Oriented: 1. Add the builders mark to the side frames. 2. Fix the tooling to remove the mold lines. 3. Redo the fan grill photo etch to be multi layer. 4. Photo etch the drop steps with tread plate on them. 5. Use a Kato motor. 6. Offer undecorated kits or the ability to kit a model off your web site. RTR version: 1. Find out how Atlas does their paintwork and copy that method. 2. Teach your assemblers how to cut parts from the parts tree. 3. Teach your assemblers how to assemble a model "properly". 4. Use a different silver that is not Christmas glitter on your UP truck side frames. 5. Use a Kato motor. 6. Mold longer pins on the handrail stanchions to help them stand up straight. Or slightly oversize the handrails to remove the wave. Or figure out how Atlas does their handrails because they are straight. Or metal spin cast your handrails with dental steel (See Photo). Dental steel does not shrink. Just a few suggestions: Fire the person who assembled your pre-production samples and Find capable people who can properly assemble your marketing models. Fire the photographer and find someone who has at least a rudimentary knowledge of photography. Don't use a point and shoot camera. Shane, your supposed to be the salesman. These photos are not helping you sell this model. There is obviously GREAT potential for this model. There are a lot of positive features on this model. Brian Brian, I enjoyed meeting you at Trainfest. Thank you for visiting with Paul and I at the show to share what you liked and felt could be improved on our SD40-2. As Paul mentioned at the time, the issues you've noted at the show and in this thread are being addressed. As we discussed in Milwaukee, the models we're showing are built from first test shots. This includes the upcoming second run announcement which will be made during the first quarter of 2017. We decided to show the first test shots of the SD40-2 instead of final models because we're investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into this project over the course of nearly three years and need to recover the money as quickly as possible. Announcing the models early while wrapping-up the tooling changes shortens the time we're without these funds by as much as nine months. This allows us to continue investing in other new models and keep our young company afloat. We currently have 10 unannounced projects in Engineering and Tooling plus six families who are counting-on us for their livelihood. Mike, Joe, Paul, and I have invested our family's life savings into our business. Needless to say, this coupled with our commitment to our employees creates a tremendous amount of incentive for us to be successful. We do not want to disappoint our families or our team members by going out of business and destroying their source of income. So why do we show first test shots beyond the financial side? We believe it's important to show modelers what we're creating is tangible and not vaporware. It's easy to announce a model with a prototype photo or artwork. This requires little time or money and is a great way to test the viability of project. Holding a model in your hands is proof it's real and will be available in a reasonable timeframe. Will the first test fully-assembled, painted, and decorated shots ever be perfect... absolutely not. There will always be fit and finish issues, parts not molded correctly, part installed incorrectly, paint flaws, printing issues, etc. This is exactly why we have early samples built. It allows us to make changes before production to ensure the final model is as good as humanly possible. We welcome feedback about any of our models. Unfortunately posting issues on a forum can cause a manufacturer more harm than good. Since our Industry does not rely on reviews like restaurants and hotels, some modelers turn to the forums to help determine whether or not they should purchase a model. If they read negative comments and do not realize the issues were addressed, they may not purchase the model. We have experienced this first-hand. Please contact us directly at Support@ScaleTrains.com with your praises and concerns. Paul spearheaded the SD40-2 project and is the best person to address the comments in this thread. He'll post shortly. We appreciate everyone's support and business. Sincerely, Shane Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc.
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Post by milgentrains on Dec 10, 2016 13:35:55 GMT -8
Photography of scale models is a hard anvil to test anyone's modeling skills against, even more so for any production piece. I've seen folks get bent out of shape over a drawing of a future locomotive offering.
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Post by calzephyr on Dec 10, 2016 13:37:33 GMT -8
Shane
Thanks for the updates. I don't think most of us know what it costs to bring a model to the market from start to finish. That is one reason so many models are sold as is without changes.
I hope your profit on this model exceeds any of your expectations and your continue to bring us fine models. I don't model in this era, but will pick up at least one just to have it.
The way my turbine runs at all speeds is amazing.
Larry
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Post by fr8kar on Dec 10, 2016 14:03:35 GMT -8
Thanks for checking in, Shane. In spite of the flaws of the pre-production samples shown, this is still far and away the best SD40-2 out there. I don't reserve or pre-order anything - ever - yet I have done that twice now for the carbon black cars and the SD40-2. I know you guys will deliver a great model. Even if it needs a little attention here and there to take it form RTR to the next level, I am totally fine with that. That's okay. It's modeling. Anyway, it's far better than trying to fix up the other starting points available.
To anyone suggesting they'd do without over the raised casting marks on the trucks: that's insane. How hard can it be to draw those in CAD and print some Archer-style decals?
Anyway, I'm glad you guys bet the farm on Scale Trains. You have my attention and my support. I can't wait to see what you guys announce next.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 14:07:00 GMT -8
Thanks for checking in, Shane. In spite of the flaws of the pre-production samples shown, this is still far and away the best SD40-2 out there. I don't reserve or pre-order anything - ever - yet I have done that twice now for the carbon black cars and the SD40-2. I know you guys will deliver a great model. Even if it needs a little attention here and there to take it form RTR to the next level, I am totally fine with that. That's okay. It's modeling. Anyway, it's far better than trying to fix up the other starting points available. To anyone suggesting they'd do without over the raised casting marks on the trucks: that's insane. How hard can it be to draw those in CAD and print some Archer-style decals? Anyway, I'm glad you guys bet the farm on Scale Trains. You have my attention and my support. I can't wait to see what you guys announce next. It may be insane to you...but it's been on models since the 1980's...no excuse to not be on there. There are lesser models out there with the correct raised lettering and such... And, they said they will be putting it on the trucks.
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Post by ScaleTrains.com on Dec 10, 2016 15:14:29 GMT -8
"Put them in a box with bagged parts trees. Every part available so the modeler can choose what model or phase to build. ...I'll buy as long as they corrected the side frames. I would like to ask Scaletrains. How much more trouble would it be to tell the factory to take X number of trees off the line before they go to paint? Say they wanted to produce 1000 undecorated kits. The factory pulls off the line 1000 of each tree. Bags them and puts them in a box with a frame/drive train/electronics. Done. Just a thought. Make it perfectly clear that there are no instructions. It is the responsibility of the modeler to understand how to build the model. There are very few modelers that do not understand how to put these things together. Brian" "dharris, you are correct. I do not understand how these things are tooled. Your short explanation is the first time I have ever been educated on how it is done. If that is the case, then bagged sprue trees would not work. But instead of despruing the parts, just cut the trees up. The factory workers can't even cut a part off the tree correctly. Take a real close look on the ScaleTrains web site at the BN units windows. It appears whoever desprued the window glass just twisted them off and stressed the edge of the windows that were connected to the sprue. Brian" Brian, Paul has another commitment this evening and asked me to post his replies so there is no further delay. "Unfortunately, this method is just not practical. For background, there are nearly 500 parts that have been tooled for this project. This does not included the etched metal parts and wire form pieces. There are nearly 20 different body variants tooled so far, covering different combinations of intake grills, short hoods, class lights, and so on. Same goes for the walkways; different combos of EFCO buttons, jack pads, steps, anticlimbers, etc. And many, many, many parts sprues of various detail parts. And that's just the start. It's not a simple matter of just "cutting the trees up" due to part layouts. And as odd as it sounds, from our experience, offering undecs is just as much work, if not more, then doing a decorated version. Parts breakdowns for any particular version(s) have to be determined, communicated to the factory, packaged (being sure parts counts are accurate), and so on. That, and the fact there are so many parts, make offering undecs, let alone a "one-size-fits-all, all-inclusive" undec a difficult proposition. This is why we are planning to offer and undec chassis, and separate parts and/or parts groups, to help streamline the process, and allow the modeler to build up the configuration they desire. We're modelers too, and understand the desire to have undecs available to create your own. Paul Paul Ellis Executive Product Developer ScaleTrains.com, Inc." Shane Wilson President ScaleTrains.com, Inc.
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