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Post by curtmc on Sept 15, 2012 15:47:56 GMT -8
Atlas made some new HO announcements on September 6th. Did anybody notice?
They were new paint schemes and numbers on the Alco RS3 and RSD4/5, corn syrup tanks, and Thrall 4750 covered hoppers... And some laser cut building kits for a small station and a double deck outhouse (where dealer and consumer are lower level).
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Post by valenciajim on Sept 15, 2012 16:12:33 GMT -8
I noticed. Also read the Golden Spike Members Club newsletter. They discussed the closing of the Atlas Forum at length. They claim to have spent $150K per year keeping it open.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 15, 2012 16:22:17 GMT -8
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Post by atsfan on Sept 15, 2012 16:51:17 GMT -8
Atlas for me is really a non factor.
They don't make new engines in HO.
They spend most of their energy on Atlas O, which from what I hear from stores is chasing a very small market.
And they just put new paint on old products and raise the prices.
So I don't buy anything from them.
I had thought about their lumber centerbeams, but they were damaged.
I had thought about their stack cars but the first type were warped, and the second type were too light, don't run well, and only have scale accubreaks.
So I really and not tracking if they every announce anything for September...........
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 15, 2012 17:40:02 GMT -8
^ That can probably be said for Kato and N as well.
I wish they'd dump those Junkumate craplastic couplers already...
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Post by steveturner on Sept 15, 2012 17:44:07 GMT -8
I lost interest in Atlas product and many others after the close of the forum.The Atlas forun was always a buzz with new product etc and reviews. I am ok with that as i have enough stuff and pretty much was buying for the sake of buying sometimes. Nothing will replace the old forum it was a bit of a magnet for everything! This forum is getting interesting and is pretty diverse.Steve
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Post by spookyac47 on Sept 15, 2012 17:45:58 GMT -8
I noticed. Also read the Golden Spike Members Club newsletter. They discussed the closing of the Atlas Forum at length. They claim to have spent $150K per year keeping it open. Actually, they stated it cost $75,000 per year. From a strictly dollar and cents point of view the forum was currently costing Atlas, in hard and soft dollars, approximately $75k per year which necessitated more than $150k in annual sales to offset.I am by no means an expert on websites but doubt that figure - is the Atlas Rescue Forum costing that much? Perhaps that is what it cost for their entire Atlas website for the hosting, development and maintenance. The Atlas forum on the website was a readily available package, "Snitz Forums 2000", one can get for their own website |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Sept 15, 2012 18:02:20 GMT -8
For all practical purposes, this forum is free (thanks to the ads!)
It really doesn't take much of my time to run, though I do check it several times a day...
Donnell
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 15, 2012 18:16:30 GMT -8
$75k a year to run their simple forum with that basic, off-the-shelf software?  What the hell were they running it on, gold-plated servers? |
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Post by middledivision on Sept 15, 2012 18:39:27 GMT -8
$75k a year to run their simple forum with that basic, off-the-shelf software? What the hell were they running it on, gold-plated servers? They paid the web master $74.5K a year! ;D |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Sept 15, 2012 18:42:47 GMT -8
Personnel costs for all the tight control moderation and chasing away spamming new members, all behind the scene activities add costs, I'm sure. They had to pay someone to keep Frank at bay. Who ever the heck Frank was.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 15, 2012 18:46:00 GMT -8
Agree'd. Atlas seems to have fallen back and has become a minor player - not much new of interest to me in some time, only old stock. The loss of the forums only put them further out of my mind, but thats their call. I think Atlas is going to need to make some changes to turn their popularity around and generate some buzz and interest.
Like anything, I go where the models are that I need: Atlas has been a good supplier but their direction has turned decidely more focused on the last 20 years (post-1990) or pre-1960 for a few other things. None of that is any good to me, but ExactRail has definitely been supplying alot of my 1970's and 80's niches, and Athearn too. Hopefully Athearn will get their RTR line back up and going soon as they had a lot of good stuff there too.
As it is, the slow down in new products has been fine with me - I couldn't keep up with the rising costs plus the flood of nice new products, so the past year or so I've been slowly chipping away at my want list from items already produced and selling off some items I don't need as well.
I'll continue to watch Atlas with interest to see if they make anything I would be interested in - but they really need to step up their game or they will continue to drop back to a minor player in the model railroad product market.
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Post by atsfan on Sept 16, 2012 7:55:51 GMT -8
There is no way that forum should have cost them $150,000 per year to operate.
if they were paying that much somebody was making a huge profit off of them........
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Post by Brakie on Sept 16, 2012 8:19:12 GMT -8
Agree'd. Atlas seems to have fallen back and has become a minor player - not much new of interest to me in some time, only old stock. The loss of the forums only put the further out of my mind, but thats their call. I think Atlas is going to need to make some changes to turn their popularity and generate some buzz and interest. Jim,There's many reasons why Atlas closed their forum but,we won't go there. I also agree Atlas is sitting on their laurels (except for a new N Scale S2-their first new N Scale locomotive since the GP15-1 in '08) as is Athearn.Of course both has suffered production problems over the past few months. Bachmann seem to be the one forging ahead with new product annoucements on a routine bases.. I figured Atlas would pump up their Trainman Line with new products but,I missed that thought by a country mile.  |
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Post by riogrande on Sept 16, 2012 9:06:05 GMT -8
Jim,There's many reasons why Atlas closed their forum but,we won't go there. I also agree Atlas is sitting on their laurelsas is Athearn.Of course both has suffered production problems over the past few months. Bachmann seem to be the one forging ahead with new product annoucements on a routine bases.. I figured Atlas would pump up their Trainman Line with new products but,I missed that thought by a country mile. Yes, and I realize many of the woes faced by Atlas and Athearn are related to the loss of production facilities or capacity overseas. But that is their business challenge - find new capacity or suffer a decline in their business. Yes Bachman has forged ahead, but I have read that they still have a large factory or factories in China at their disposal so they can continue to ship product ... but so far Bachman's products for the most part don't interest me so as my wife would say - that ain't no good to me! ExactRail seems to be able to continue to ship product too long after Athearn and Atlas hit the wall, interestingly. So ER must also have been able to keep production capacity somewhere, at least some of it - the down side to them is they are direct sales only so that will hamper my acquisition of their newest products greatly. I expect I may still g'head and buy new products from them, but with the availability of other items for cheaper on my "to do" and "catch-up" list, ER new items will probably be a "when I get around to it" kind of thing. If that is how others are with ER, their new business model may be in for a rocky road ahead - so it will be interesting to see how they fair over the next couple of years - although we may never know unless they are frank with us about their before direct sales and after direct sales info. |
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Post by Brakie on Sept 16, 2012 9:14:51 GMT -8
Yes, and I realize many of the woes faced by Atlas and Athearn are related to the loss of production facilities or capacity overseas. But that is their business challenge - find new capacity or suffer a decline in their business.
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Jim,I agree with that assessment.
Maybe its me but,Athearn seems to be focusing on their Genesis line..
As far as Atlas I suspect they have something new in the works.
Of course they may be focusing on their Branchline cars so they can get a ROI.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 16, 2012 9:27:07 GMT -8
Jim,I agree with that assessment. Maybe its me but,Athearn seems to be focusing on their Genesis line.. As far as Atlas I suspect they have something new in the works. Of course they may be focusing on their Branchline cars so they can get a ROI. Athearn has already publically acknowledged that the factory where they produced their RTR line was closed and in the last couple months they recovered their tooling etc from it. They still have production capacity at a different factory operational, and it is at that location that the Genesis products are produced - that is why we continue to see Genesis stuff announced and slowly coming out - although maybe slower than before. Athearn stated that they were going to try to squeeze in a few RTR items at the same factory as the Genesis stuff, and to that end they did announce one product on their page that is non-Genesis. So the challenge for Athearn is to find a way to pick up capacity that was lost so they can begin producing the RTR line again and start catching up on the already announced stuff, like the RTR UP "fast forty" SD40-2's and other announced products that have been delayed due to the closure. My guess is rather than continue to announce more RTR new items, they will eventually slot the already announced RTR stuff to finally try to get it to market, like some of the 40' Fruehauf trailers, some of the loco's etc. But until they acquire more capacity, it's probably going to be just more Genesis stuff with the odd RTR item coming slowly. As I said, this isn't all bad for me - I had stuff on my want list that I am slowly catching up on while the companies spend time trying to re-acquire production capacity at other factories, or in other countries. |
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Post by nw611 on Sept 16, 2012 9:40:29 GMT -8
Larry, a few months ago I was skeptical about Atlas future and I started a thread titled "What's going on at Atlas" on this forum. I compared Atlas and Athearn new announcements in the last 3 years.
I would not say that Athearn is "sitting on its laurels". AS a matter of fact, in the last three years Atlas announced zero new locomotives, while Athearn introduced the GP15s, the GP7/9s, the DDA40X and, shortly, will release the GP38-2, that will give them infinite possibilities in terms of railroad details and paint schemes. The Genesis GP38-2 will flood the market and its modular design will permit other desired models (GP39-2, GP40-2, GP50, as well as GP38, GP39 and GP40). Athearn is having problems with its RTR line, but the Genesis line is doing very well. Ciao. Raffaele
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Post by riogrande on Sept 16, 2012 10:50:32 GMT -8
Agree Raffaele,
Athearn has been pushing forward with new projects even while the economy and other issues have put the beat down on Atlas and others. There are some things I'd like to see Athearn offer like more road names in the 40 and 45' Fruehauf trailers etc, so I hope they get the RTR line up and running soon!
As for the GP38-2's, I would love to see more GP40, GP40-2 variants because the D&RGW was a major user of GP40's. The only class I don't have now are the last / late GP40 class. Of course the down side will be every new engine will cost nearly double what many of my old engines cost (old = 65-80 dollars vs new = $130-150) non sound etc, based on the Genesis prices.
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Post by Brakie on Sept 16, 2012 13:38:22 GMT -8
Jim:I would love to see more GP40, GP40-2 variants because the D&RGW was a major user of GP40's.
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Jim,What's stopping Athearn from redoing their GP40-2 like they did the GP38-2?
I checked Athearn web page and see where the NS GE Heritage locomotives will be RTR.
I could use several Athearn Railgons.
Of late I have bought several Atlas cars especially the ACF Precision Design boxcars and two of the Berwicks.
As a side note I'm begining to like the Atlas Trainman cars as well.
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Post by valenciajim on Sept 16, 2012 14:38:11 GMT -8
You are correct, I misstated the $150K figure. It was $75K. I suspect Atlas is doing OK and I plan to make futire purchases of their product.
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Post by riogrande on Sept 16, 2012 16:25:44 GMT -8
Jim,What's stopping Athearn from redoing their GP40-2 like they did the GP38-2? I could use several Athearn Railgons. Of late I have bought several Atlas cars especially the ACF Precision Design boxcars and two of the Berwicks. As a side note I'm begining to like the Atlas Trainman cars as well. Nothing should stop them but time and capacity, and of course my wallet! But hopefully they will do them. People who were talking about the potential Athearn Genesisi GP40-2, were also dissing the Atlas GP40-2, of which I have 6 of, but there is a point you feel you are on a merry go round of upgrades so well, we'll just see how that goes. I think the Atlas GP40-2 is pretty decent and it does have the gyra light on the nose only most of the past diesels painted for Rio Grande - the only others are Athearn SD45's and tunnel motors, which are important to be sure. Interesting you brought up the Atlas ACF box cars, I bought 4 of those back when they were first out (UP, D&RGW, N&W and RI) and at the last train show I went to I just picked up the Cotton Belt I had missed out on - nice box car! I too like the Trainman stuff and will dip into that as I need - I have a few including 3 D&RGW 3-bay coal cars and want to get the other 3 numbers I don't have plus I think I have a covered grain car. They did some nice 40' box cars would be nice to pick up a few for 1960's era freight trains. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 17:14:45 GMT -8
Atlas announced they were changing their builder in China because of production problems. The new facility was supposed to take a little time to get up and running and after that it would be calm seas and smooth sailing......that was some time ago.....
Atlas STILL can't get track out the door, let alone new rolling stock. Word leaking out in the hobby trade now is Atlas will not have any re-supply of track until 2013. Some dealers and distributors, are muttering that the "new" factory is actually worse than the old!
I chuckle at Atlas for trolling for reservations, because they are more plugged up than Athearn.......It seems they did a complete belly flop from the frying pan into the fire. IF the China issue doesn't right itself soon Atlas may be a pile of carbon.
Now lets look at Atlas rolling stock.
Much of their Master line of freight cars is not as well tooled as recent models from the likes of Exact Rail, Tangent, Athearn Genesis, BLMA and a few others. I feel that only Intermountain is more pat than Atlas in freight cars.
The Atlas Trainman line have some cars for a decent price. I personally have some and think the two bay offset side hopper is especially nice for the price. But for all of you old enough to remember......what did Atlas originally advertise about the Trainman line? They told the public that "the Trainman line would be available at all times and you would not need to pre-order. Hmmmmmm that sure changed in a hurry. Now even the Trainman line is on the order it and hope to see it within year.
The best part of Atlas' line of diesels has been their drive. But while most were dropping QSI, Atlas and for a while Walthers hung on. Only with the current announcement of sound for the RS/RSD has Atlas gone with a different sound board.
Except for the GP40-2, and some detailing on the U30C's, Atlas has by and large stuck with the generic one size fits all detailing. Even Bowser, which joined the prototype specific detailing party late, had the jump on Atlas. The latest run of RS/RSD's will not have prototype specific detailing, but they are adding sound.
To me Atlas has a lot models that with some tool work, they could be raking in the dollars. Do some work on the GP40/38 and offer prototype specific detailing, modify the SD24 to allow for an SD24B, update the U33C, U36C and C30-7, scrap the old Kato C424/425 platform and begin to offer with and without dynamics, etc. There is SO MUCH Atlas could do where they are the only cat in the room and they sit in New Jersey counting their money.
One of the biggest problems I think that dogs Atlas is its a family owned and run business. In fact it is the same family that started the business in the 1930's. Atlas is the family's legacy and more importantly meal ticket. In these tough times, pulling in the horns and taking it easy is a safe way to go. But another family owned and run business, Bowser, HAS NOT sat on its hands. So......for Atlas being so ultra conservative seems to be hurting them more than helping.
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Post by atsfan on Sept 16, 2012 17:22:31 GMT -8
Unless Atlas produces something new, and that thing is released with quality, I do not even look at the Atlas products in a train store. I need no more of their engines. Same with Freight Cars. Sorry but NEW PRODUCT is what sells nowadays............... I have picked up of few of their 89 foot intermodal flat cars on clearance sales. A two story out house is the New Product of Note ? Seriously. An out house!? |
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Post by carrman on Sept 16, 2012 19:57:52 GMT -8
Atlas is resting on their laurels, plain and simple. When the Genesis GP40-2 lands, folks will forget that Atlas ever offered one. They didn't kill the forum because everything is so peachy in NJ.
Dave
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Post by Judge Doom on Sept 16, 2012 21:06:16 GMT -8
Looking at my purchases within the last few months, 3 were Atlas including a new GP40-2W, 1 IMRC, 1 TLT and two old P2K kits plus one old MDC kit. I know another guy who's bought quite a bit of Atlas cars and locos in the last little while as well. Not everyone is buying less Atlas They might not be pumping out new models like Athearn, but if the stock is in the LHS and it's appealing... |
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Post by drolsen on Sept 16, 2012 21:17:38 GMT -8
When the Genesis GP40-2 lands, folks will forget that Atlas ever offered one. I'm really not sure what I'm going to do when the Genesis model arrives. I need about a dozen GP40-2s for my future layout plans, and the likelihood of me getting my hands on that many undecorated Genesis models is pretty slim, not to mention the cost of buying that many (I certainly won't be buying sound units in that quantity, but I may have to buy some just to get more undecs). I wish they would offer the model with the classlights blanked out, because that would at least allow me to buy some factory-painted models. I have about a dozen Atlas models already, including 6 undecs, and their parts are so easy to get that I can "create" more undecs if needed. I doubt that Athearn's parts will be as easy, or as cheap, to get my hands on. If it wasn't for the Atlas fuel tank, sideframes, and stepwells, I'd be perfectly happy with them, since everything else is going to get Cannonized anyway. Dave |
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Post by diburning on Sept 16, 2012 23:07:50 GMT -8
I'd take the Atlas over the Athearn any day as I have found the Athearn Genesis models to be a hit or miss operationally. Also, as time goes by, you can get the older Atlas locos for less!
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Post by Brakie on Sept 17, 2012 3:11:03 GMT -8
as time goes by, you can get the older Atlas locos for less! ----------------------------- Agreed..If one isn't so finicky he can pickup yellow and red box Atlas engines at train shows for $35-60.00..I seen the Atlas/Kato RS11 for $25.00 used. So far all of my Athearn RTR has been smooth runners but,those fool handrails that fall off if you sneeze needs to be address as does these spaghetti thin stirrups on some 50' boxcars.. The last 2 5347 boxcars I bought had 2 of their 4 stirrups laying in the box!  Sure,its a easy fix but,still that shouldn't be on a $25.00 car. Guys,as you may recall from my Atlas forum days I'm a big supporter of Athearn but,of late I 'm looking elsewhere for my boxcars because of stirrup problems on Athearn's boxcars.. I'm upgrading my freight car fleet that I will be using on my home switching layout..I sold most of my older car fleet and kept 60 for club use.. |
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Post by drolsen on Sept 17, 2012 6:24:27 GMT -8
Guys,as you may recall from my Atlas forum days I'm a big supporter of Athearn but,of late I 'm looking elsewhere for my boxcars because of stirrup problems on Athearn's boxcars.. That must be a new (unfortunate) development with Athearn - maybe a change in how they are shipped or change in material. I think I have at least two dozen FMC 5347s, and I've never found a broken stirrup step. I did find a car that was missing a side grab iron, but I bought it secondhand, so I don't think it was Athearn's fault (couldn't find it loose in the box like most parts). Dave |
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