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Post by SantaFeJim on Oct 11, 2012 16:18:54 GMT -8
Antoniofp45
This one is for YOU.
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Post by bnsf971 on Oct 11, 2012 17:02:05 GMT -8
That was interesting. Do both FP45's have QSI sound?
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Post by antoniofp45 on Oct 11, 2012 17:17:47 GMT -8
Hey Jim thanks!  I enjoyed that very much.
Almost always, whenever a model HO El Cap video is posted on YouTube, the motive power is the classic F-unit lashup. It is good to see the covered wagons, but to me the FP45's big boxy cowling style, tear drop windshields and that turbocharged whine conveys sleek elegance and solid muscle. Glad that there are modelers doing the 1960s era with this beautiful train.
Very cool seeing the big jacks doing what they did best.....slicing through the wind at speed. The prototypes regularly ran 90+mph on some of Santa Fe's long stretches. That must have been a thrill to see.
I believe that this FP45 is equipped with a QSI decoder as I recognized the horn sound from the Q2 programmer. It's #1050-292v, which is a Nathan M5.
On the vid, the only scene that temporarily soured the effect was the departure from the station. A bit jerky between 00:38-00:42. Once it smoothed out, the speedy acceleration was pretty good as I remember seeing Amtrak SDP40fs back in the late 70s taking off that fast with Florida to NY trains when running behind schedule.
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Post by buffalobill on Oct 11, 2012 18:02:18 GMT -8
The Santa Fe Warbonnet FP-45 was truly a timeless unit. Glad a bunch were preserved.
Bill
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Post by nw611 on Oct 12, 2012 0:45:33 GMT -8
Were Santa Fe FP45s always running elephant style in passenger service? Ciao. Raffaele
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 4:32:38 GMT -8
Were Santa Fe FP45s always running elephant style in passenger service? Ciao. Raffaele Every photo I've ever seen has them running elephant style. Even when a steam line equipped F45 was in the consist. |
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Post by garr on Oct 12, 2012 4:39:17 GMT -8
All good scenes but the last one tops them all.
Jay
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Post by SantaFeJim on Oct 12, 2012 7:28:44 GMT -8
Were Santa Fe FP45s always running elephant style in passenger service? Ciao. Raffaele Raffaele - When I was 10 years old (1957) my family moved to Forest View Illinois. Our house was 1/2 block away from the Santa Fe tracks. In the 60's when the FP45's started to appear on some of the named passenger trains I never once saw them in any configuration other that "elephant style". I can not speak for 1966-1969 because I was in the military and the Santa Fe did not have trackage rights in Vietnam or Washington D.C. |
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 12, 2012 9:22:00 GMT -8
Were Santa Fe FP45s always running elephant style in passenger service? Ciao. Raffaele Raffaele - When I was 10 years old (1957) my family moved to Forest View Illinois. Our house was 1/2 block away from the Santa Fe tracks. In the 60's when the FP45's started to appear on some of the named passenger trains I never once saw them in any configuration other that "elephant style". I can not speak for 1966-1969 because I was in the military and the Santa Fe did not have trackage rights in Vietnam or Washington D.C. Jim I believe the Santa Fe normally ran the units elephant style to allow the second unit to lead in case of some failure to the lead unit. I did find one exception of this practice in a picture taken in 1968 of the Texas Chief leaving Chicago using the 104 and one other unit back to back. I don't think this was common but it did happen on that train. Page 40 of the Santa Fe Through Passenger Service Vol 2 by Greg Stout What?? The Santa Fe did not have trains overseas?  ? Larry |
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 12, 2012 9:43:30 GMT -8
The Santa Fe Warbonnet FP-45 was truly a timeless unit. Glad a bunch were preserved. Bill All of the Santa Fe FP-45 were preserved except for one which was wrecked and destroyed. It is great the Santa Fe donated all of the remaining units to museums! They also donated many steam locomotives to cities and museums. Anyone think the BNSF will donate any of the present days units to museums in the future? Larry |
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Post by SantaFeJim on Oct 12, 2012 11:44:25 GMT -8
I don't know about BNSF... But didn't the Burlington donate the Nebraska Zephyr to the Illinois Railway Museum?  I'm thinking that AustralianTerrier will help us out on this one. |
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 12, 2012 11:57:59 GMT -8
I don't know about BNSF... But didn't the Burlington donate the Nebraska Zephyr to the Illinois Railway Museum? I'm thinking that AustralianTerrier will help us out on this one. Jim Yes, the CB&Q donated several locomotives and should be thanked also. I was wondering how the present day BNSF would do in future donations. I believe there are four 4-6-4's and four 4-8-4's in parks donated by the CB&Q and probably other smaller locomotives. I am not sure how the Zephyr got to the musuem, but it was probably donated also. There is a fifth CB&Q 4-6-4 that ended up at Union Illinois from a private owner. The four 4-8-4's are all at city parks except for the 5629 at Golden Colorado. Thanks to the CB&Q! I would like to express this same gratitude to all of the railroads that donates steam locomotives to cities and parks for us to enjoy today. The information below is from a search feature and states the train was donated to IRM. Larry Jump to: navigation, search
One of the trains used in the Nebraska Zephyr service which operated in the era between the 1930s and the 1970s was donated to the large Illinois Railway Museum (IRM) at Union, northwest of Chicago, Illinois. It is powered by the only surviving EMD E5, one of the large "E" series passenger diesel-electric locomotives made in nearby McCook, Illinois, by General Motors Electro-Motive Division. The train features the distinctive and durable stainless steel fluting made famous by the original "Silver Streak" Pioneer Zephyr. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 12:29:17 GMT -8
I don't know about BNSF... But didn't the Burlington donate the Nebraska Zephyr to the Illinois Railway Museum? I'm thinking that AustralianTerrier will help us out on this one. The Nebraska Zephyr and "Silver Pilot" the EMD E5A were purchased by then IRM President, the now late Herbert Hansen in 1968, the E5A followed shortly after. Herb bought the NZ directly from the Q and the E5A was purchased from scrapper Pilet Brothers. CB&Q had traded the E5A along with all the remaining E5A's and B's to EMD as credit towards new SD40's. Under the contract that Pilet had with EMD, anything that was sent by EMD to Pilet had to be cut up. No parts or anything could be saved from the locomotives, but EMD and Pilet must have thought the E5A was special and should be saved. The E5A has the distinction of being the ONLY locomotive sent to Pilet by EMD for scrapping to be saved from the torch. The shame is Herb didn't have the money or no one thought to save E5B, 9911B "Silver Mate". It was the B-unit to "Silver Pilot" 9911A. The Nebraska Zephyr and the E5A recently made two 500 mile round trips from Chicago Union Station to Quincy, Illinois. The trips were in cooperation with BNSF and Amtrak. www.irm.org/events/zephyrexcursion.htmlP.S........Since early 1990's when BN began to "borrow" the E5 and the Nebraska Zephyr on through BNSF.......it has sort of become BNSF's bright silver toy capable of reaching speeds of 90 mph.....don't tell anyone but most feel the E5A is still geared for 117 mph...... |
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Post by onequiknova on Oct 12, 2012 12:42:43 GMT -8
BN donated their executive F7 A/B E8A set to IRM just before the merger too. at least I think that's how they got them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 12:57:42 GMT -8
BN donated their executive F7 A/B E8A set to IRM just before the merger too. at least I think that's how they got them. BN donated the former executive F9A-2, F9B-2 and the E9AM before the BNSF merger. BN also donated GE U30C 5383. |
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 12, 2012 13:11:34 GMT -8
I don't know about BNSF... But didn't the Burlington donate the Nebraska Zephyr to the Illinois Railway Museum? I'm thinking that AustralianTerrier will help us out on this one. The Nebraska Zephyr and "Silver Pilot" the EMD E5A were purchased by then IRM President, the now late Herbert Hansen in 1968, the E5A followed shortly after. Herb bought the NZ directly from the Q and the E5A was purchased from scrapper Pilet Brothers. CB&Q had traded the E5A along with all the remaining E5A's and B's to EMD as credit towards new SD40's. Under the contract that Pilet had with EMD, anything that was sent by EMD to Pilet had to be cut up. No parts or anything could be saved from the locomotives, but EMD and Pilet must have thought the E5A was special and should be saved. The E5A has the distinction of being the ONLY locomotive sent to Pilet by EMD for scrapping to be saved from the torch. The shame is Herb didn't have the money or no one thought to save E5B, 9911B "Silver Mate". It was the B-unit to "Silver Pilot" 9911A. The Nebraska Zephyr and the E5A recently made two 500 mile round trips from Chicago Union Station to Quincy, Illinois. The trips were in cooperation with BNSF and Amtrak. www.irm.org/events/zephyrexcursion.htmlP.S........Since early 1990's when BN began to "borrow" the E5 and the Nebraska Zephyr on through BNSF.......it has sort of become BNSF's bright silver toy capable of reaching speeds of 90 mph.....don't tell anyone but most feel the E5A is still geared for 117 mph...... Jim Thanks for the update. The searched information is incorrect if the train set was purchased, but it is a great train set and it is a one of a kind. Larry |
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 12, 2012 13:17:22 GMT -8
BN donated their executive F7 A/B E8A set to IRM just before the merger too. at least I think that's how they got them. BN donated the former executive F9A-2, F9B-2 and the E9AM before the BNSF merger. BN also donated GE U30C 5383. True, the BN gave away several units and some of those were still in running order. My hope is the BSNF will donate one of the previous merger road Santa Fe Dash 8-40BW and at least one of the GP60M models someday. They were both unique units and one of each should be preserved. Both types are still being used in some local service and might be around for many years into the future. Larry |
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Post by nw611 on Oct 12, 2012 13:48:02 GMT -8
According to "ATSF All Time Diesel Roster" all the FP45s (now SDFP45s), withe the exception of those wrecked and scrapped or sold to WC, went to museums after the BNSF merger. I think they were donated by BNSF (before Warren Buffett?). Ciao. Raffaele
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Post by onequiknova on Oct 12, 2012 14:09:48 GMT -8
BN donated their executive F7 A/B E8A set to IRM just before the merger too. at least I think that's how they got them. BN donated the former executive F9A-2, F9B-2 and the E9AM before the BNSF merger. BN also donated GE U30C 5383. Duh. Man, I completely blew that. I knew they were F9's and an E9 too. On a side not, way back around the year 2000 or so, I saw the F's heading south past the job site I was workring on in Plainfield IL, toward Joliet on an EJ&E freight train. They must have been taking a round about way to the CNW on their trip to IRM. |
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Post by antoniofp45 on Oct 12, 2012 14:20:23 GMT -8
I hope I'm accurate about this, but I remember reading an article that explained the reason why the Burlington Northern executive F-units were donated. During a run on a Business Special the train came to a stop somewhere along the route. BN ceo, Rob Krebbs was onboard. He asked one of the company officers why they were stopped. The reply was that the F-units, with their small tanks, needed refueling. Krebbs' response: "GET RID OF THEM!" Hence, that's how they winded up at the museum. Since then BNSF OCS trains have usually been hauled by modern fuel efficient six axle units which can log many miles before refueling. BN donated their executive F7 A/B E8A set to IRM just before the merger too. at least I think that's how they got them. BN donated the former executive F9A-2, F9B-2 and the E9AM before the BNSF merger. BN also donated GE U30C 5383.
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Post by bnsf971 on Oct 12, 2012 15:04:30 GMT -8
The Santa Fe Warbonnet FP-45 was truly a timeless unit. Glad a bunch were preserved. Bill All of the Santa Fe FP-45 were preserved except for one which was wrecked and destroyed. Larry Actually, both 94 (or what would have been 94, it was originally 104) and 96 were wrecked and scrapped. 94 in 1981 in Texas, and 96 wrecked in 1994 on Cajon. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 18:03:35 GMT -8
BN 1, BN 2 and BN 3 came to the museum in 1997, two years after the merger. It is speculated that one the reasons BNSF donated the trio was because of the small fuel tanks of the F's and the worn out condition of the E-unit. The "no one's saying for sure" reason for their sudden departure from BNSF......maybe their paint scheme.
The executive F's and the lone repainted E (the second E was never repainted) were the brain child of departing BN CEO Gerald Grinstein. AT&SF's Rob Krebs became CEO of the new BNSF, while Grinstein retired. There has been some mumbling soon after the merger that it was more a Santa Fe taking over BN, than a merger of near equals.
It is safe to say, it is highly doubtful that exact truth and reasons for the F's and E's dismissal from business train service will ever be known....
History of BN 1 and BN 2
BN 1 was built as Northern Pacific F9A, number 6700A for passenger service. Transfered to BN and renumbered 9800 and used in BN passenger service. Upon the formation of Amtrak, it was assigned to freight service and renumbered 766. Removed from freight service and converted to rotary snow plow power plant.
BN 2 was built as Northern Pacific F9B, 7002C for freight service. Became BN 809, until retired from freight service and convered to rotary snow plow power plant service.
BN 1 and BN 2 were rebuilt by BN's West Burlington shop in 1990. In the rebuilding process the original Blomberg B trucks were swapped for the newer design Blomberg M. The units were gutted completely and received 16 cylinder non-turbocharged 645 engines and dash two electrical gear. Basically BN1 and BN 2 are "F38-2's", much like the three Union Pacific E9 A-B-A set.
BN 3 was built as CB&Q E9A 9989A for passenger service. It became BN 9980 upon the merger and was transfered to Chicago commuter service upon the start up of Amtrak. It was rebuilt by Morrison-Knudson in 1973 and re-numbered 9919. It served in daily commuter service until it was retired by Metra in 1992.
BN 3 was not mechanically rebuilt by BN before being placed into executive service. It only received body work and new paint. This led to BN 3 having a reputation for less than reliable service.
A forth unit which was to become BN 4 was never completed by BN. The unit was BN E9AM 9920. It was built for the CB&Q and numbered 9990. It now resides in Keller, Texas in quasi-CB&Q paint with BNSF heralds.
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Post by onequiknova on Oct 12, 2012 18:46:07 GMT -8
I wonder what BN 1&2 were doing when I saw them on the EJ&E around 2000. It had to be later than 97 since I wasn't in construction back then. Maybe it was when they were used in that movie.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Oct 12, 2012 19:46:52 GMT -8
Jim,
I'll look for the info as I read it about 5 years or so ago but I should still have it among my piles of magazines. Apparently I have the BN and SF railroad presidents crossed as I remember reading quite a bit about the BNSF merger that occurred afterwards. But I'm certain that the info was in the article where BN's president became irritated with the fuel stop and apparently the official was caught off guard since quite a bit of money had been spent upgrading the vintage units for executive/ocs service.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 3:45:36 GMT -8
Jim, I'll look for the info as I read it about 5 years or so ago but I should still have it among my piles of magazines. Apparently I have the BN and SF railroad presidents crossed as I remember reading quite a bit about the BNSF merger that occurred afterwards. But I'm certain that the info was in the article where BN's president became irritated with the fuel stop and apparently the official was caught off guard since quite a bit of money had been spent upgrading the vintage units for executive/ocs service. BN was very happy with the F's as far as we at IRM were told by former BN employees. The F's along with the E were a favorite of Mr. Grinstein. IRM's E5A and Nebraska Zephyr were also a favorite of Grinstein. When the first "Grinstein executive green" EMD SD70MAC was reveled for the first time in Fort Worth in 1992, along side of the big EMD was the E5A and Nebraska Zephyr. BN hired a number of the IRM volunteers to work the E5A and Nebraska Zephyr for the event. A couple of weeks ago, the E5A and the Nebraska Zephyr made two 500 mile round trips between Chicago and Quincy, Illinois. The foundation for this trip can traced back to 1992. Besides spending the money on the executive F's, BN also spent money on the E5A and the Nebraska Zephyr. My memory is fuzzy, but I want to say the E5A headed to BN's West Burlington shops, a shop the locomotive visited many times in the past, and the passenger cars to BN's business car shop in Springfield, Missouri. BN, BNSF and IRM have spent a considerable amount of money in keeping the E5A "blue carded" and passenger cars road ready. Now Amtrak is involved with the E5A and the Nebraska Zephyr.....maybe Amtrak will copy it for high speed service in Illinois... ;D |
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 13, 2012 6:32:26 GMT -8
All of the Santa Fe FP-45 were preserved except for one which was wrecked and destroyed. Larry Actually, both 94 (or what would have been 94, it was originally 104) and 96 were wrecked and scrapped. 94 in 1981 in Texas, and 96 wrecked in 1994 on Cajon. Thanks. I was forgot about the 94 being wrecked in Texas. The 96 wreck on Cajon was really a bad wreck. I used to take pictures on the hill above that curve and noticed the memorials there. Did they ever figure out what caused the runaway? Larry |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2012 7:06:41 GMT -8
I wonder what BN 1&2 were doing when I saw them on the EJ&E around 2000. It had to be later than 97 since I wasn't in construction back then. Maybe it was when they were used in that movie. In the early years following the donation BNSF would borrow the BN 1, BN 2, BN 3, E5A 9911A and the Nebraska Zephyr from IRM from time to time. BN 1 and 2 while on loan to BNSF roamed around a bit. BNSF pretty much stopped asking for the executive units in the early 2000's. Currently, BN 1, BN2 and BN 3 are looking a little shabby. The chrome "BN" on the nose of BN 1 is pitted with rust, the bodies of all three units have rust spots and holes, paint is popping off the units and BN 2 is no longer operational due to leaking radiators. After sitting outside from 1997 to last year the trios bodies took it on the chin. The good news is all have been stuffed inside with the completion of the diesel barn at IRM so the body rot will slow. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Oct 13, 2012 8:07:21 GMT -8
Actually, both 94 (or what would have been 94, it was originally 104) and 96 were wrecked and scrapped. 94 in 1981 in Texas, and 96 wrecked in 1994 on Cajon. Did they ever figure out what caused the runaway? Larry The most common theory was somebody closed the angle cocks about midway through the train. With only about half the cars providing braking, it got away from them pretty quick. This is one reason "smart" FREDs are now used, so it can dump the air from the rear, if needed. This is also a reason spectators are no longer encouraged to be around Summit, where the trains regularly stop. |
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Post by onequiknova on Oct 13, 2012 10:32:28 GMT -8
I wonder what BN 1&2 were doing when I saw them on the EJ&E around 2000. It had to be later than 97 since I wasn't in construction back then. Maybe it was when they were used in that movie. In the early years following the donation BNSF would borrow the BN 1, BN 2, BN 3, E5A 9911A and the Nebraska Zephyr from IRM from time to time. BN 1 and 2 while on loan to BNSF roamed around a bit. BNSF pretty much stopped asking for the executive units in the early 2000's. Currently, BN 1, BN2 and BN 3 are looking a little shabby. The chrome "BN" on the nose of BN 1 is pitted with rust, the bodies of all three units have rust spots and holes, paint is popping off the units and BN 2 is no longer operational due to leaking radiators. After sitting outside from 1997 to last year the trios bodies took it on the chin. The good news is all have been stuffed inside with the completion of the diesel barn at IRM so the body rot will slow. When I saw them, it was just BN 1&2. The were tacked behind the lead power of an EJ&E freight. I don't know if they were on loan to the BNSF that day, but I can say they were just interchanged off the BNSF, (ex BN) heading south on the J. edit: I found this pic online. The descriptions says they are being delivered to the BNSF at Eola. I must have seen the return trip when the BNSF handed them back to the EJ&E. I guessed the date pretty good. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2324410 |
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Post by calzephyr on Oct 13, 2012 11:06:03 GMT -8
Did they ever figure out what caused the runaway? Larry The most common theory was somebody closed the angle cocks about midway through the train. With only about half the cars providing braking, it got away from them pretty quick. This is one reason "smart" FREDs are now used, so it can dump the air from the rear, if needed. This is also a reason spectators are no longer encouraged to be around Summit, where the trains regularly stop. Terry Thanks. If they had a regular FRED on the rear, which is not the latest kind that could dump the air from the rear, it should still have given a result when they exercised the running brake test. I know they have to do a brake test which would give them an indication that the rear was not responding and that should have caused them to walk the train. No railfan would do this so if it was done on Summit, it must have been an illegal rider or dumb donkey so to speak! Larry |
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I enjoyed that very much. 
