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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Dec 18, 2017 8:54:24 GMT -8
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Post by roadkill on Dec 18, 2017 9:03:04 GMT -8
Talgos are like dominoes, when one goes over they all go over...
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Post by TBird1958 on Dec 18, 2017 9:12:15 GMT -8
This is just a few miles south of my work, several Police units passed me at high speed as I was travelling to work this AM - On their way to the accident.
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Post by Gary P on Dec 18, 2017 10:05:26 GMT -8
Oh dear. I heard some abbreviated info on this, and saw a few pictures online. Hoping for the best regarding crew, passengers, and by-stander fatalities and injuries.... Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Post by theengineshed on Dec 18, 2017 16:30:21 GMT -8
Its being reported that this was a 30 MPH curve and the train was going faster. RIP, there were fatalities.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Dec 18, 2017 18:33:04 GMT -8
Lots of mis-information, and SWAG, Scientific Wild A$$ed Guess, out there. No one wants to wait until the facts come out before they try to vilify and point fingers.
Sad accident, at any time, but especially at Christmas and all holidays time.
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Post by valenciajim on Dec 18, 2017 19:55:59 GMT -8
On the news this evening, a passenger tweeted just before the accident saying that the train was going really fast--passing cars on the interstate. The newscast suggested speed may be a problem. I am sure the NTSB will get to the bottom of this.
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Post by calzephyr on Dec 19, 2017 7:04:40 GMT -8
I saw the curve from an aerial shot and the curve looked as sharp as a larger HO layout. PTC will become the action word. By the way, this was a newly configured line and it really should have had PTC working. The Siemens diesel that was leading has that capability.
Larry
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Post by valenciajim on Dec 19, 2017 8:49:05 GMT -8
On CNN this morning they said that the train was going 80 MPH and the curve had a maximum speed of 30 MPH. Based on the aerial view, the curve looked only slightly wider than the curves on my layout. Apparently the PTC implementation was delayed because of lack of funding. I am not sure if that is correct, but that is what people are saying.
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Post by riogrande on Dec 19, 2017 13:27:13 GMT -8
On CNN this morning they said that the train was going 80 MPH and the curve had a maximum speed of 30 MPH. Based on the aerial view, the curve looked only slightly wider than the curves on my layout. Apparently the PTC implementation was delayed because of lack of funding. I am not sure if that is correct, but that is what people are saying. Yes, I'm still waiting on how the heck a train is going 80 mph into a section marked for 30 mph. This is like a wash, rinse and repeat of the wreck in Philly a couple years ago where an Amtrak train was well above the speed limit too - the engineer in that wreck was a big train fan reportedly. Beggars belief. |
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Post by loco8107 on Dec 19, 2017 17:24:47 GMT -8
On CNN this morning they said that the train was going 80 MPH and the curve had a maximum speed of 30 MPH. Based on the aerial view, the curve looked only slightly wider than the curves on my layout. Apparently the PTC implementation was delayed because of lack of funding. I am not sure if that is correct, but that is what people are saying. Yes, I'm still waiting on how the heck a train is going 80 mph into a section marked for 30 mph. This is like a wash, rinse and repeat of the wreck in Philly a couple years ago where an Amtrak train was well above the speed limit too - the engineer in that wreck was a big train fan reportedly. Beggars belief. Yes that engineer in Philly is a fan. Oddly, the govt wants the railroads to get PTC but won’t give them the funding. But in this part of the country, they can’t keep the roads paved either. And the implementation date keeps getting pushed back. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Dec 20, 2017 17:36:42 GMT -8
Exactly, that and the fact that PTC has numerous interpretations, is almost all new, untested technology and an unfunded mandate.
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timmie
Junior Member
Posts: 57 
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Post by timmie on Dec 22, 2017 12:56:40 GMT -8
On CNN this morning they said that the train was going 80 MPH and the curve had a maximum speed of 30 MPH. Based on the aerial view, the curve looked only slightly wider than the curves on my layout. Apparently the PTC implementation was delayed because of lack of funding. I am not sure if that is correct, but that is what people are saying. Yes, I'm still waiting on how the heck a train is going 80 mph into a section marked for 30 mph. This is like a wash, rinse and repeat of the wreck in Philly a couple years ago where an Amtrak train was well above the speed limit too - the engineer in that wreck was a big train fan reportedly. Beggars belief. Not that I'm defending Amtrak on this, but this was the first official run. Aside from some test runs for executives and government officials, thus was completely new. How fimilar was the engineer with the line? We had a speed related accident a number of years ago here in Southern Ontario involving a Via train where an engineer in training was at the controls and entered a crossover at two or three times the speed restriction. Inexperience could be a factor in this case as well. |
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Post by gevohogger on Dec 22, 2017 20:33:42 GMT -8
Not that I'm defending Amtrak on this, but this was the first official run. Aside from some test runs for executives and government officials, thus was completely new. How fimilar was the engineer with the line? Test runs and crew qualification trips had been going on for months. |
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Post by riogrande on Dec 23, 2017 11:29:43 GMT -8
How familiar was the engineer with the line? Inexperience could be a factor in this case as well. Unfamiliarity with a line shouldn't be an excuse for not doing something basic like maintaining a safe speed. Are there not speed signs along the route similar to roads and highways? I'm not sure there really is a defence in this case. A highway patrolman wouldn't be happy if you were driving 50 mph over the speed limit he'd throw the book at you for sure. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 23, 2017 12:26:03 GMT -8
There was a speed reduction warning sign 2 miles ahead of the curve.
It appears the sharpest part of the curve is 8 degrees (717 feet). The tipping speed for an F9 at that radius is 68 MPH.
It currently appears the engineer made a brake application to slow from 81 MPH to below the 79 MPH limit, and did not try to brake for the curve. Note that it was dark, and he likely could not see it. Though one might think the headlights would help.
If the engineer thought he was inadequately familiar with the line, he should have refused the assignment. If pressured, he then should have called his union rep.
Ed
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Post by ncrc5315 on Dec 24, 2017 18:20:42 GMT -8
If the engineer thought he was inadequately familiar with the line, he should have refused the assignment. If pressured, he then should have called his union rep. Ed Huh, huh, sure that would work  I refused to take a train one time, because the locomotive failed its air test. Trainmaster made sure we, (conductor and I) paid for that one. The union rep was no help. |
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Post by valenciajim on Dec 25, 2017 10:26:17 GMT -8
If the engineer thought he was inadequately familiar with the line, he should have refused the assignment. If pressured, he then should have called his union rep. Ed Huh, huh, sure that would work I refused to take a train one time, because the locomotive failed its air test. Trainmaster made sure we, (conductor and I) paid for that one. The union rep was no help. At least you are still alive. I never worked in the railroad industry or was a union member. I did however "pay the price" several times during my career for doing the right thing. The financial consequences always seemed to come at the worst possible time, but in retrospect, I am glad I took the high road. |
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Post by roadkill on Dec 26, 2017 9:17:21 GMT -8
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Post by roadkill on Dec 26, 2017 10:04:08 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 26, 2017 11:18:28 GMT -8
Adron said: "With the sun just barely risen..."
The sun rose 19 (7:52) minutes after the wreck (7:33).
Hiatt says: "These guys were trained in darkness."
And the train was operating in darkness. At 7:33. Nineteen minutes before sunrise. So the training would have been appropriate for this situation.
Ed
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