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Post by gregw66 on Oct 22, 2012 11:28:21 GMT -8
I want to confirm what I read somewhere and can no longer find, that the Atlas Custom Line #4 turnout is actually a #4 and a 1/2. I am planning a small (4x8) switching layout and am hoping this is true as I have a few longish cars.
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Post by rhpd42002 on Oct 22, 2012 14:02:57 GMT -8
Greg, while I wouldn't stake my life on it, I do beleive the Custom Line turnouts are actually a #4.5. The "snap-trak" turnouts are a #4, to fit in with 18"r curved trackage.
Hope this helps you.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Oct 22, 2012 14:16:56 GMT -8
I don't know who originally made the statement, but I typed the core of your statement into Yahoo search and received numerrous hits. Most of them agreed that the Atlas #4 is actually a #4.5 with a frog angle of 12.5d, where as a true #4 has a frog angle of 14d.
Either way, I don't think 1.5d is going to make too much difference when dealing with long cars. A sharp frog angle is a sharp frog angle, and long wheel based rolling stock and sharp turnouts don't play all that well together. And, on the off shoot that they do work, they won't "look" right doing it. That said, stick with cars 50' or less. Your layout will operate more smoothly.
Donnell
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Post by riogrande on Oct 22, 2012 16:11:13 GMT -8
The place where I read that Atlas Custom Line Turnouts were really 4.5 was in John Armstrongs book Track Planning for Realistic Operation. JA was the dean of track planning and an engineer in his profession.
Personally, I don't like using turnouts less than #6 since I was traumatised by #4 turnouts as a teenager - my SD45 didn't like them one bit. Your choice.
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Post by gregw66 on Oct 22, 2012 16:25:12 GMT -8
I don't know who originally made the statement, but I typed the core of your statement into Yahoo search and received numerrous hits. Most of them agreed that the Atlas #4 is actually a #4.5 with a frog angle of 12.5d, where as a true #4 has a frog angle of 14d.
Either way, I don't think 1.5d is going to make too much difference when dealing with long cars. A sharp frog angle is a sharp frog angle, and long wheel based rolling stock and sharp turnouts don't play all that well together. And, on the off shoot that they do work, they won't "look" right doing it. That said, stick with cars 50' or less. Your layout will operate more smoothly.
Donnell
When I said longish, I meant 50', from the sound of your comment, I gather that #4 will handle 50' and under rolling stock? |
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Post by Brakie on Oct 22, 2012 16:49:12 GMT -8
Personally, I don't like using turnouts less than #6 since I was traumatised by #4 turnouts as a teenager - my SD45 didn't like them one bit. Your choice. ------------------------------- Jim,I don't understand why your SD45 didn't go through CL #4s. The custom line switches makes a smooth transition onto the diversion route as this photo shows.  ------------------ Then comes my second choice Atlas "snap" switch with the 22" radius which is a decent switch for small layouts. www.modeltrainstuff.com/545-Code-83-22-Manual-Right-Hand-Switch-p/atl-545.htm------------------------------- I try to avoid Atlas sharper "snap" switches. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg.The CL #4s will handle 50 cars..  |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 22, 2012 17:25:55 GMT -8
Jim,I don't understand why your SD45 didn't go through CL #4s. That was my experience as a 14 year old with the old blue box fat nose SD45 - I don't have a time machine to understand it but it didin't like #4 turnouts. After that I swore to never use anything smaller than a #6 on yards or mainline. I might use a #4 where a switch engine would go. |
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Post by Brakie on Oct 22, 2012 17:46:58 GMT -8
Jim,I remember when those Athearn SD45s cme out..I rushed out and bought 4..took 1/3 of my pay check but,I was 17 at the time and had a summer job unloading boxcars..
The SD45,SD9,SD7,U33C U30C will go through the CL#4 but,struggles through a snap switch..
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Post by Donnell Wells on Oct 22, 2012 19:08:55 GMT -8
When I said longish, I meant 50', from the sound of your comment, I gather that #4 will handle 50' and under rolling stock?
I think you'll be fine! 
Donnell
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Post by Brakie on Oct 23, 2012 3:11:59 GMT -8
When I said longish, I meant 50', from the sound of your comment, I gather that #4 will handle 50' and under rolling stock?
I think you'll be fine!
Donnell
I fully agree after all a Walthers 72' centerbeam will go through a CL4 diversion route. I forgot to mention 50' cars goes through all three types of "snap" switches. What are those 3 types of "snap" switches? They are the standard,the 22" diversion route and the 18" diversion route. The 22" is the better "snap" switch. BTW..Years ago as a experiment I ran a Walthers 72' centerbeam through a 18" snap switch diversion route at slow switching speed..Wasn't pretty but,it went but,I don't recommend it. |
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Post by ldbennett on Oct 24, 2012 4:55:51 GMT -8
Be aware that the Atlas Custom Line #4 switches (and this may be for all #4 switches made by all companies) do not have a continuous curved section turnout. The equivalent curve through the frog area of the switch may be an 18 inch radius but the exit part of the switch is a straight run. Trying to incorporate the curved part of the switch as part of one continuous curve will not work because of this small straight section on the turnout of the switch.
I ran into this as I was planning my little trolley layout. My original plan required that the switch turnout portion be a continuous 18 inch radius for it to fit in the space I provided. Fortunately someone pointed this out to me and I was able to enlarge the bench design enough to accommodate this before I even started building the bench let alone lay the track down. On one quarter of my 18 inch oval where two #4 switches start and end the one quarter 18 inch oval, the radius through that section has to be less than 18 inches to connect the track. That is no problem for trolleys but most certainly would be for anything else. I have two long commuter interurbans that will not run coupled together through that section without the corners of the bodies hitting each other (so I don't run them as multiple units).
This may not be a concern to the poster but here just as information.
LDBennett
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Post by riogrande on Oct 24, 2012 5:15:11 GMT -8
Larry, I am honestly not sure what #4 I had, only that it didn't work for my longer 5-axle SD45. I was 14 and them were many moons ago! =P
But since I've always modeled "modern" 1970's and 1980's (modern to me) there have been lots of long cars during my teens and adult life such as 86' box cars, 89' autoracks, 89' flat cars and lots of 60' freight cars too, I still prefer to stick with #6 to accomodate the rolling stock - not to mention the large numbers of long diesels (tunnel motors etc).
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Post by rhpd42002 on Oct 24, 2012 18:42:32 GMT -8
Greg, This is a pic of my "portable", 3' x 4' layout. The bottom left turnout and top right turnout are Atlas, Custom line, RH, while the bottom right and top left are Atlas, Custom line Wye's. The oval curves are a very tight, 16.5 - 17", while the inner sidings are about 12"r to 15"r. I usually run this layout with nothing larger than an Atlas, RS-1 or an Athearn/Bachmann, F-Unit and 40' to 50' cars, max. flic.kr/p/korUPMaybe this can help you "see" what can be done, if absolutely necessary. |
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Post by Brakie on Oct 26, 2012 14:56:25 GMT -8
Mike,Your switches look suspiciously like the 18" snap switch not the CL #4.  |
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Post by rhpd42002 on Oct 26, 2012 15:51:24 GMT -8
Larry, until I get back home, I won't be able to say for sure, but.... IIRC, they are the metal frog, Custom-Line turnouts. I do remember cutting the turnout rails just a bit beyond the frog on the straight side so I could get the tight, outer curve to fit. Either way, when I can confirm, I will post what they actually are.  |
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