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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Mar 23, 2018 8:25:41 GMT -8
I only buy the non-sound locomotives. Why? I'm on the real thing for 8, 9, 12 or however many hours each day. I don't want to hear that noise in my free time, and frankly, the HO sound models sound tinny and fake. All of them. No thanks; I'd rather keep my money. Amen Brother! Plus it's just an added expense when something breaks.
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Post by roadkill on Mar 23, 2018 8:36:40 GMT -8
If you are becoming annoyed by your sound equipped locomotives, your volume is set too high. I have never once been irritated by any sounds emitted from my fleet, except maybe when an operator forgets to shut the friggen' bell off! Wrong. Your comment assumes everyone has the same tolerance to annoyances which is absolutely not the case. I find it annoying because even at lower volume after a while it starts to monotonously drone. Volume has nothing to do with it.
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Post by riogrande on Mar 23, 2018 8:51:06 GMT -8
If you are becoming annoyed by your sound equipped locomotives, your volume is set too high. I have never once been irritated by any sounds emitted from my fleet, except maybe when an operator forgets to shut the friggen' bell off! Wrong. Your comment assumes everyone has the same tolerance to annoyances which is absolutely not the case. I find it annoying because even at lower volume after a while it starts to monotonously drone. Volume has nothing to do with it. I agree with that. It really depends on a persons tolerance. Volume may be part of the picture but not all of it.
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Post by lvrr325 on Mar 23, 2018 10:49:02 GMT -8
One of my sound engines is a Bowser C430. The sounds are great, but I grew up without that stuff and I'm used to the sound being the actual electric motor in the locomotive.
Now on the other hand, I have considered going over the flex track with a little cutoff wheel every 39 scale feet and putting a score in the railhead to get that sound.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 23, 2018 14:15:47 GMT -8
If you are becoming annoyed by your sound equipped locomotives, your volume is set too high. I have never once been irritated by any sounds emitted from my fleet, except maybe when an operator forgets to shut the friggen' bell off! Wrong. Your comment assumes everyone has the same tolerance to annoyances which is absolutely not the case. I find it annoying because even at lower volume after a while it starts to monotonously drone. Volume has nothing to do with it. I'll second the motion about annoyance. At first it is interesting after a while, especially turbocharged sounding models begin to sound like "whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllll" Everything lacks bass. The bell is the one thing that sounds pretty much like the prototype. But when you are around the prototype, where the bell is left on......it is second to finger nails on the blackboard. Another factor is the sound chip. If you have a trio of BLI E9's after a minute or so of "does this sound like anything recognizable?" It then turns immediately into a death by ten thousand paper cuts.....please just turn it off!!!!! I'm also in the very minority of preferring bulbs to LED's. When you are modeling in the sixties to early 70's having the second coming of the sun blasting out of the headlight is just too bright. LED's also don't do the Mars light effect as well as a bulb. They are getting better but a bulb still does the better Mars and headlight dim.
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Post by bnsf971 on Mar 23, 2018 14:48:35 GMT -8
I only buy the non-sound locomotives. Why? I'm on the real thing for 8, 9, 12 or however many hours each day. I don't want to hear that noise in my free time, and frankly, the HO sound models sound tinny and fake. All of them. No thanks; I'd rather keep my money. Yes, I think they sound tinny, but I do like the sound. I think it is probably because I ran stuff on a tourist road, "for fun". Nothing turns something fun into drudge quite as effectively as doing it for a living. Though all the stuff I ran was older, and didn't have a turbo or equipment blower howling and screaming 10 feet from my head for 12 hours a day.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Mar 23, 2018 16:43:06 GMT -8
I buy sound equipped, and if it doesn't have ESU Loksound, it comes out and the ESU goes in.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Mar 23, 2018 19:56:32 GMT -8
I like sound...in moderation. When I'm not using the sound units, I prefer them silent in the engine facility/yard. More than a few and it's a cacophony around there. But when I'm running around, it's a "fun multiplier". I can blow a grade crossing whistle whereas a silent engine...well, I'm not making the sounds myself. Station announcements, bells, whatever it has, it adds more to the experience for me. It also forces me to run in a more realistic fashion. Waiting for the diesel to spool up before moving or pausing for air releases, it adds to my enjoyment. That being said, I hate EMD turbos. Gimme steam, Alcos and pre-turbo EMD's and I'll run 'em all day with sound. But 10 seconds of EMD 645 turbo whine and I'm reaching for the mute button.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Mar 24, 2018 4:59:46 GMT -8
Now me, I like the sound of the turbo, I actually have a sound loco on my desk, that when I'm working, I just let it sit and idle. Maybe it's because I have spent most of my life around turbo'ed engines, and other annoying noises.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 7:55:42 GMT -8
For me, the turbo sound is the best "sounding" on the market now. I think the "loop effect" of the sound is what really annoys me. With non-turbo EMD units, they sound really cool revving up...and down. If speaker technology gets better, maybe I'll dabble a bit in sound some more.
For now, no sale.
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wsor
Full Member
The Route of the Ruptured Duck
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Post by wsor on Mar 25, 2018 18:28:41 GMT -8
Now on the other hand, I have considered going over the flex track with a little cutoff wheel every 39 scale feet and putting a score in the railhead to get that sound. I've tried that. The sound isn't really noticeable unless you make the scores really big. maybe an eighth inch or so. As for factory installed sound, my local hobby store sells Atlas with LokSound for $60 more than non-sound. For me, it is a no-brainer to get sound. A non-sound decoder is ~$30, plus my time to take it apart and install it, and hopefully not break something in the process. Once I get my JMRI to find the port, programming is fairly easy. Adjusting the master sound level to about 45 of 128 helps a lot to not have it overpowering. My Rivarossi U25C sounds fine at this level, and is fun to switch with, lots of unusual sounds compared to the EMDs I run at work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 19:24:54 GMT -8
I say to each their own with regards to sound...It's just not worth it to me, to have a sound that is digitally looped together in a speaker that is not equipped to handle the dynamics of the file. I'd rather see development of WiFi control and make the battery packs smaller so we could go true dead rail.
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Post by luebeck3102 on Mar 26, 2018 5:38:05 GMT -8
Usually, I see units with sound sell between $60-90 more than those without sound. For example, the Intermountain Tier 4 GEVOs without sound (equipped with a Lokpilot V4.0) are usually $159.99 and the ones with Loksound are usually $224.99. Again, it varies by store.
And the nice thing with Loksound, all you need is a LokProgrammer and all your engines can sound differently. Yes you can use JMRI, but if you want to download new sounds, a Lokprogrammer is a must.
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Post by loco8107 on Mar 26, 2018 10:24:38 GMT -8
Usually, I see units with sound sell between $60-90 more than those without sound. For example, the Intermountain Tier 4 GEVOs without sound (equipped with a Lokpilot V4.0) are usually $159.99 and the ones with Loksound are usually $224.99. Again, it varies by store. And the nice thing with Loksound, all you need is a LokProgrammer and all your engines can sound differently. Yes you can use JMRI, but if you want to download new sounds, a Lokprogrammer is a must. I was wondering if price is a factor at all with the amount of leftover sound units I always see. I’m not a sound guy but it’s way out of my budget if it was.
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Post by rockisland652 on Mar 26, 2018 10:36:08 GMT -8
Now on the other hand, I have considered going over the flex track with a little cutoff wheel every 39 scale feet and putting a score in the railhead to get that sound. A better solution for Code 83 and Code 70 rail is to use Details West brass joint bars between the rails, with the less expensive plastic ones on the outside of the rails. This will give a slight jointed rail sound (esp with deeper flanged wheelsets) and give the appearance of jointed rail. Easy install every 39 feet, plus more around switches and diamonds. Any sound decoder needs to be able to be tuned to the speaker for maximum fidelity. I look forward to the next generation, as all but one of the current offerings sound like they are coming from a handheld walkie talkie.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jul 1, 2018 12:24:18 GMT -8
Usually, I see units with sound sell between $60-90 more than those without sound. For example, the Intermountain Tier 4 GEVOs without sound (equipped with a Lokpilot V4.0) are usually $159.99 and the ones with Loksound are usually $224.99. Again, it varies by store. And the nice thing with Loksound, all you need is a LokProgrammer and all your engines can sound differently. Yes you can use JMRI, but if you want to download new sounds, a Lokprogrammer is a must. Been catching up on the threads. This caught my attention. A modeler I spoke with is a big fan of Loksound decoders because of their versatility as far as sound schemes and their motor control. He's picky about certain sounds and special effects but complains about the price of the Lok Programmer. The kicker is that over time he's spent $300-$400 each on MTH, Genesis, and BLI locomotives without batting an eyelash!. My comment to him: "Dude, just get the programmer! Buy the items you want for your layout before you retire and fall on a fixed income." I don't mind the complaining, but if the solution is in front of your nose then save the extra quarters and dollar bills and go for it! Walthers sells it for $179, but some of the online dealers offer them at discounted prices in the $160-$170 range. I will be getting one this year myself. I've seen one in action and it's worth it as they do make things so easy.
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Post by John Sheridan on Jul 2, 2018 5:49:14 GMT -8
Usually, I see units with sound sell between $60-90 more than those without sound. For example, the Intermountain Tier 4 GEVOs without sound (equipped with a Lokpilot V4.0) are usually $159.99 and the ones with Loksound are usually $224.99. Again, it varies by store. And the nice thing with Loksound, all you need is a LokProgrammer and all your engines can sound differently. Yes you can use JMRI, but if you want to download new sounds, a Lokprogrammer is a must. Been catching up on the threads. This caught my attention. A modeler I spoke with is a big fan of Loksound decoders because of their versatility as far as sound schemes and their motor control. He's picky about certain sounds and special effects but complains about the price of the Lok Programmer. The kicker is that over time he's spent $300-$400 each on MTH, Genesis, and BLI locomotives without batting an eyelash!. My comment to him: "Dude, just get the programmer! Buy the items you want for your layout before you retire and fall on a fixed income." I don't mind the complaining, but if the solution is in front of your nose then save the extra quarters and dollar bills and go for it! Walthers sells it for $179, but some of the online dealers offer them at discounted prices in the $160-$170 range. I will be getting one this year myself. I've seen one in action and it's worth it as they do make things so easy. Although the LokSound Programmer is a tad expensive, it is well worth its weight in Gold simply because it is so versatile. If you have Loksound Select decoders, you can override the stock sound package with any of the packages offered by ESU. If it is a Loksound V4.0 chipset, then you can modify each sound file separately. Every CV is listed in the programmer & it is simple to use. I have one & I buy Loksound Select chipsets in bulk. I program each one to which ever locomotive I am working on.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Jul 2, 2018 6:04:36 GMT -8
Although the LokSound Programmer is a tad expensive, it is well worth its weight in Gold simply because it is so versatile. If you have Loksound Select decoders, you can override the stock sound package with any of the packages offered by ESU. If it is a Loksound V4.0 chipset, then you can modify each sound file separately. Every CV is listed in the programmer & it is simple to use. I have one & I buy Loksound Select chipsets in bulk. I program each one to which ever locomotive I am working on. I agree on the ESU programmer hardware. Plus, if you have used Decoder Pro and plant to still use it as your database, it's extremely easy to copy the ESU decoder file into Decoder Pro. Still would do any programming of ESU decoders with the ESU programmer. But, I find it nice to have all my engines, with and without ESU chips, in one place.
Bob
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 2, 2018 7:58:05 GMT -8
Antonio, Hey, howzitgoin'? The price complainer you mention reminds me of an old-timer fellow club member (Bob) who bitterly complained once about our monthly dues going up $1 per month. He ranted long and hard against it, saying he was retired, on a fixed income, can't afford to keep raising dues, etc. We passed the $1 increase anyways. The very next month, the same guy shows up with two brand new Overland brass cabooses ($250...each!) and a brand new Overland brass steam loco (probably $1000 at the time).
When he was showing them off, I asked, "Bob, last month you complained that you couldn't afford a dues increase and tonight you show up with $1500 worth of brass? How could you afford these?" He said, with a straight face, "I saved up for them." I laughed and shot back, "And you couldn't save up $12 a year for the club?" He weakly replied it was about the principle of the thing, but at least he stopped complaining about the dues going up. Bob was a great guy, but he could be a real cranky pants when he wanted to be.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 2, 2018 8:27:21 GMT -8
The "principle of the thing" appears to be that it was OK to spend $1500 on himself, but not $12 on "everyone".
And it sort of makes sense because when you stomp out of the club in a tizzy/huff/swivett, you still have your $1500 worth of equipment. But you leave your $12 behind. But following that reasoning would seem to end at not joining a club at all.
Ed
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Post by riogrande on Jul 2, 2018 10:30:53 GMT -8
Of course they guy with the $1500 in trains he bought may not have a place to run if he doesn't want to pony up, which is probably why he stopped complaining.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 20:16:12 GMT -8
As I may have said before, I've noticed the latest dcc/sound equipped units seem to be much better than previous offerings.
I am also assuming that two factors are at work on my layout:
1. Aging MRC Tech 6 controller is very touchy in dc mode/perhaps is going bad. So a light touch of the throttle either way can cause a plain dc engine to surge or slow down in running speed.
2. The dcc/sound equipped engines generally speaking are now running better for me in dcc mode than the exact same models from the same runs in analog versions run in plain dc. This may be due to 1.
Due to "luck of the draw" I have some models in both analog and dcc/sound versions.
I plan to keep the few analog versions I still have without installing decoders in them (but this is only two units).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 7:09:25 GMT -8
I've done sound installs for people, and I would have to agree that sound is definitely in vogue. It's just not there yet for me. I did read an article from Lance Mindheim a few months back about HI-Fi sound and running with headphones to enhance the sound decoder features and such.
Still, I would say after two attempts at a sound equipped fleet, I'd rather have the engines without sound. I can devote the extra $100 per engine to scenery and new rolling stock.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 3, 2018 7:48:21 GMT -8
Ed, To this day I don't know why Bob was so loudly against a minor dues increase (we'd had them before and he hadn't popped off like that). He was USMC in WWII, then was a union pipefitter and a reserve cop, retiring from both. He had joined the club in the 1950's, quit when he had a family, and rejoined in the 1980's until his death in the early 2000's. The club got a new building in 1993 and moved in 5 years later. We needed more money to build a new 6300 sq. ft. layout; it's not like we were raising dues for lolz. All the members that remember Bob laugh about it now, but we were all kind of shocked at the time. And then to see all that brass...too funny.
Jim, That may have been it. Bob didn't have a layout, and he was a big operator on the club one. In fact, we named a town and switching area on the new club layout after him because he loved switching local freights so much.
Thomas, While sound in HO scale is not perfect, it is a realism multiplier for me (especially when I'm running solo). Back in the DC pre-sound era, I would find myself operating unrealistically in the yards because it was all about getting the switching done as fast as possible. I would literally set the throttle to switching speed and just use the direction toggle to control both speed and direction (there was a center-off position).
But with sound, I find myself listening to the engine. I try to time the coupling sounds to the function. I accelerate the cars after the engine spools up and not instantly. I ring the bell where appropriate, and blow the horn when needed. I also play around with momentum more than I ever did on DC. Can it become annoying? Yep...that's what F8 is for. But when it is going and I'm in the mood for it, I feel much more like an engineer moving hundreds of tons of rolling stock than a model train operator moving cars weighing mere ounces. YMMV.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jul 3, 2018 7:57:21 GMT -8
Hey Paul, guys, it's been a good while! Paul, thanks for your response. A coworker of mine recently said to me "Dude, you overreact to these situations.". Baffled me as I don't get upset at all. My reaction to the modelers that make these types of complaints is more accurately that of being DUMBFOUNDED, LOL! . The club member that you mentioned "Bob" is a good example of what I was pointing out. My intent is not to be judgmental. I respectfully point out to complainers that if they're financially capable of budgeting for an item that will make their modeling experience more enjoyable (and/or easier) then they should stop complaining about the price tag and go for it! The two, three, or five months that it takes to save up or budget for that item will fly by quickly. Once you have the item, you can move forward, throw the concern over the cost behind you, and enjoy the benefits of that item (programmer, booster, throttle, or whatever it may be). Chairman Meow - Hey thanks for the info! I didn't know that you could override the packages in the LokSound Select decoders. Good, useful feature. I plan on sticking with LokSound as their products continue to get better and better. I still plan on trying out one, possibly two TCS decoders, but LokSound will be my primary sound decoder of choice. Antonio, Hey, howzitgoin'? The price complainer you mention reminds me of an old-timer fellow club member (Bob) who bitterly complained once about our monthly dues going up $1 per month. He ranted long and hard against it, saying he was retired, on a fixed income, can't afford to keep raising dues, etc. We passed the $1 increase anyways. The very next month, the same guy shows up with two brand new Overland brass cabooses ($250...each!) and a brand new Overland brass steam loco (probably $1000 at the time). When he was showing them off, I asked, "Bob, last month you complained that you couldn't afford a dues increase and tonight you show up with $1500 worth of brass? How could you afford these?" He said, with a straight face, "I saved up for them." I laughed and shot back, "And you couldn't save up $12 a year for the club?" He weakly replied it was about the principle of the thing, but at least he stopped complaining about the dues going up. Bob was a great guy, but he could be a real cranky pants when he wanted to be.
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