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Post by stevewagner on Jun 28, 2019 3:46:53 GMT -8
Back in the Fifties or early Sixties, one of the HO manufacturers -- Ulrich, perhaps? -- advertised its products as "Toys for Men". I liked that and still do. Not that there aren't some female model railroaders!
P.S. (hours after I posted the above) I think my memory was faulty. Can't find reference to that slogan in old Ulrich and MDC Roundhouse flyers on line. Now that I think of it, I think Toys For Men was the name of a fairly early model railroad dealer doing mostly mail order, advertising regularly in either MR or RMC, located, I think, in New York State not too far north of New York City, that eventually went out of business and left a lot of customers holding the bag!
But I still like the phrase!
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jun 28, 2019 4:25:46 GMT -8
Dictionary.com
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Post by gevohogger on Jun 28, 2019 4:36:02 GMT -8
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Post by cf7 on Jun 28, 2019 5:52:14 GMT -8
Interesting comments, but I don't see anything wrong with running, say, a MKT GP35 if you want to. If it's nicely done and looks the part, who cares? It seems that a bunch of folks get completely wrapped up in extreme prototype modeling and anything other than that...well...
Having said that, I love to model prototype stuff. But sometimes, I like to model something that never happened. Like I've said before, it just has to look right to me. This especially applies to freight cars.
Hell, I'm thinking about modeling a green Penn Central F unit. An updated version of my first loco, a Tyco F7 that was in my first train set that I received for Christmas of '72.
It's such a great hobby and I will not limit myself by sticking solely to what some prototype did.
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Post by sd80mac on Jun 28, 2019 6:24:41 GMT -8
MTH's HO steam locomotives are fantastic. They just as detailed as anything from Broadway Limited and run smoother, sound better, and don't suffer from a million electrical gremlins. Their rolling stock and diesels are whatever (although they do make a very nice Dash 9 and Gevo), but I'd put their steam up against anything that isn't brass.
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Post by trainworm on Jun 28, 2019 6:53:20 GMT -8
I've never owned anything by MTH and I probably never will. I still cant forgive them for going sue happy all those years ago.
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Post by sd80mac on Jun 28, 2019 7:03:25 GMT -8
On a related note, can anyone recommend an MTH dealer with a decent discount on MTH HO products that will accept pre-orders?
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Post by stevewagner on Jun 28, 2019 7:40:06 GMT -8
Re going "sue happy", wasn't Mike of Mike's Train House instrumental in getting Union Pacific to modify its very harsh policy concerning use of its liveries and logos? If so, he deserves some credit for that.
On another matter, I realized my posting earlier this morning re "Toys for Men" was incorrect, and I've edited it accordingly.
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Post by roadkill on Jun 28, 2019 8:29:33 GMT -8
Thanks for waiting. Very expensive, detailed toys. They have electric motors, they run on a layout or on the carpet. Toys, toys, toys. stuffed duck or a live duck. It's still a duck. This is what is commonly known as an "opinion". And no one in their right mind would run anything that costs that much "on a carpet", those would go in a locked showcase, which directly contradicts your assumption that they are "toys". |
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Post by ambluco on Jun 28, 2019 8:35:32 GMT -8
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Post by NS4122 on Jun 28, 2019 9:19:05 GMT -8
Re going "sue happy", wasn't Mike of Mike's Train House instrumental in getting Union Pacific to modify its very harsh policy concerning use of its liveries and logos? If so, he deserves some credit for that. On another matter, I realized my posting earlier this morning re "Toys for Men" was incorrect, and I've edited it accordingly. Steve, It was a shop called "Hobbies for Men" but I don't quite remember where it was (Beacon NY maybe?) Edit: Just found an MR from 1975 and it had a two page Ad for "Hobbies for Men" at 325 Main St. Beacon NY. Looking at what was available and the prices is a real hoot. |
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Post by stevewagner on Jun 28, 2019 9:32:04 GMT -8
CSXT, thanks for yet another useful correction. Beacon, NY sounds right. I vaguely remember that the people at Kalmbach were far from happy about the situation.
If anyone can chime in with accurate info re "Toys for Men", please do so!
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Post by 12bridge on Jun 28, 2019 9:47:10 GMT -8
I think there is still a fair bit of animosity towards MTH over the lawsuit crap years ago. I have no real interest, but simply because most of their stuff is O scale like, in essence. I must say, some of that steam does look good! I know the Ore Car, as mentioned above, is a really fantastic model.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 28, 2019 10:30:31 GMT -8
I didn't really follow the law suite thing and TBH, MTH just doesn't make anything I've ever needed. I'm fine with that since several other companies are doing a fine job keeping my budget over spent.
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Post by brakie on Jun 28, 2019 13:00:53 GMT -8
I wonder.. There are Matchbox car collectors, NASCAR collector, Hot Wheel collectors,Star War collectors, GI Joe collectors Tyco Train collectors ,and yes even brass locomotive collectors display their collection in display cases. I'm sure those Matchbox and hot wheel cars was meant for the toy market as well as the Star Wars and G.I Joe stuff. Collecting children toys like model railroading is a hobby. Nothing more. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 28, 2019 14:08:58 GMT -8
coastdaylight, Just because someone takes models and runs them in an unprototypical consist doesn't make them toys. If you take "War and Peace" in a bookstore and shelve it in the children's section, it doesn't suddenly make it a kids book. My club runs anachronistic stuff like this all the time. Why? We have 65 members who have 65 different interests. If we limited it to one specific hour of one particular day, we'd make one person happy and everyone else would leave. Our layout is in the "Transition Era" (so no container yards), but we'll run anything as long as it passes our wheel & coupler standards. Now we do have things like "Steam Night" where we only run steam (or even All-Alco or All-EMD night), but they'll all be different engines from all over the USA and Canada. That still doesn't make my BLI 4-6-4 something I'd give a kindergartener to play with just because it's running next to a Big Boy. And what prototypical club runs locos "...lettered for railroads that never owned that type of engine because members don't want to wear out their prize toys"? Never heard of that. That's certainly not the case at my club. Sure, we have our own fictional railroad (going back to 1938), but not because it's to prevent wear and tear on something we cherish. Most guys who would care that much have hundreds of engines; they could run a different engine every day for a year and not run the same one twice. Why would they care about wearing out a loco? They won't live long enough. Brakie, What's interesting to me is that someone can spend years researching history in order to write a book or a magazine article and be applauded for it as a worthy goal. Do the same thing, but instead use the research to make a model and suddenly you're an immature man-boy who never grew up. Thanks, Jim! kentuckysouthernrwy, From Merriam-Webster: Definition of toy: 1 : something for a child to play with 2 : something diminutive especially : a diminutive animal (as of a small breed or variety) 3 : something that can be toyed with 4a : something (such as a preoccupation) that is paltry or trifling b : a literary or musical trifle or diversion c : TRINKET, BAUBLE cf7, I agree. Just because something is unprotoypical doesn't make it a toy. Navarch1 here on the forum models the "Modern PC" using SD80MAC's and the like. Just because it's not real doesn't make the Kato something you'd give to a child. roadkill, Heh. Seeing your post brought back a memory about one of our old club members who passed away. He had a large brass collection, including the old Key Import models with the coasting drive (which meant they could be pushed along and the drivers roll freely). One of his friends and fellow members went over to help the family pack up the collection, and found one of the grandkids playing choo-choo across the living room rug with one of the Key steamers. The friend told the family, you might not want to allow that. "Why not?", they said. Because it's worth over a $1000. Suddenly, that child's "toy" went right into the padded box, carefully packaged. Guess it wasn't a toy after all...  |
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Post by westerntrains on Jun 28, 2019 17:15:42 GMT -8
Really amazing how people want to convince themselves they are not playing with toys.
La Mesa train club in San Diego was werr I saw a bachman spectrum USRA 4-8-2 lettered for the SP. It was during the week. when I point out SP didn't have USRA engines, he told me they run the prototype stuff at club meetings and weeked operating sessions. He then told me it's just toy trains and me to relax.
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Post by brakie on Jun 28, 2019 17:22:17 GMT -8
Paul,Your man-boy covers a lot of areas from collecting stamps to video game collecting. Each of those hobbies have their man-boys that writes several articles or maybe several books and then they vanish into thin air when they no longer get those atta-boy applause because new evidence proves their book was full of errors or their modeling techniques wasn't all that great after all.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jun 28, 2019 17:24:01 GMT -8
Jim, There are plenty of people that don't appreciate fine art, wine, music, or books. I hope we don't judge everything by the lowest opinion held of it. Well said. And with regard to the toy discussion, go read the tag under TBIRD1958's avatar - it seems appropriate here. I respect James too and he has a lot of enthusiasm about trains and is good at doing video close-ups of new trains. But next to many here, my impression is he is relatively new to the hobby. Thats a fair impression, I've been in the hobby 10 years but had the YouTube channel since practically day one. Thus, the time I would normally be quietly learning more and more I've been spending making more and more videos instead of learning as much as I could. The result is a 10 year model railroader that has the skill of someone who has been in the hobby for half that time or less. Oh well, no one forced me to turn the camera on and it's still a hobby inside my hobby to do so. |
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Post by snootie3257 on Jun 28, 2019 17:41:21 GMT -8
Really amazing how people want to convince themselves they are not playing with toys. Being you have toy trains I’ll have to send the grandkids over when they want to play trains because I have model trains that they aren’t allowed to touch. Steve |
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Post by milgentrains on Jun 28, 2019 17:43:44 GMT -8
Really amazing how people want to convince themselves they are not playing with toys. Being you have toy trains I’ll have to send the grandkids over when they want to play trains because I have model trains that they aren’t allowed to touch. Steve Somebody sure got off the wrong side of the bed this morning. |
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Post by snootie3257 on Jun 28, 2019 17:53:56 GMT -8
Being you have toy trains I’ll have to send the grandkids over when they want to play trains because I have model trains that they aren’t allowed to touch. Steve Somebody sure got off the wrong side of the bed this morning. Ha Ha Ha!! Not hardly Steve |
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Post by sd80mac on Jun 29, 2019 5:21:03 GMT -8
Really amazing how people want to convince themselves they are not playing with toys. La Mesa train club in San Diego was werr I saw a bachman spectrum USRA 4-8-2 lettered for the SP. It was during the week. when I point out SP didn't have USRA engines, he told me they run the prototype stuff at club meetings and weeked operating sessions. He then told me it's just toy trains and me to relax. Right? At the end of the day we're a bunch of weird grown men (or women) playing with toy trains. Doesn't matter how you slice it, they're toys. They have no practical use other than to be played with, admired and enjoyed. That's NOT a bad thing. |
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jun 29, 2019 15:25:12 GMT -8
 Hey fellas,
Ok, I know I'm interrupting a traditional, diplomatic "Models vs Toys" discussion (argument, huddle, pow-wow, brain bowl, rumble, slam-fest, cage match, saber rattling, mind field, torch session):
But..........just 2 quick questions regarding a set of MTH HO passenger products to anyone familiar with the following (click on the link).
www.mthtrains.com/80-80014
1) Re: MTH HO stainless steel "Empire State Express" passenger car set. Did any of those cars (besides the observation) make it into Penn Central and/or Amtrak?
2) How do these units compare, detail and quality wise, to the Walthers versions?
They look attractive in photos but I've never seen any up close.
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Post by westerntrains on Jun 29, 2019 16:58:37 GMT -8
Hey fellas,
Ok, I know I'm interrupting a traditional, diplomatic "Models vs Toys" discussion (argument, huddle, pow-wow, brain bowl, rumble, slam-fest, cage match, saber rattling, mind field, torch session):
But..........just 2 quick questions regarding a set of MTH HO passenger products to anyone familiar with the following (click on the link).
www.mthtrains.com/80-80014
1) Re: MTH HO stainless steel "Empire State Express" passenger car set. Did any of those cars (besides the observation) make it into Penn Central and/or Amtrak?
2) How do these units compare, detail and quality wise, to the Walthers versions?
They look attractive in photos but I've never seen any up close. The Empire State, Daylight, and Powhatten Arrow cars were very well done. Detail very close Rapido. I don't know if any made it to Amtrak or PC. |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jun 29, 2019 17:35:13 GMT -8
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Post by antoniofp45 on Jun 30, 2019 18:27:35 GMT -8
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Post by talltim on Jul 1, 2019 0:58:29 GMT -8
Even the most prototypical club runs engines lettered for railroads that never owned that type of engine because members don't want to wear out their prize toys. Also the way some model railroaders act, it may as well be a daycare for childern. They are toys, plain and simple. I'm going to disagree with that. I know of many clubs whose members have built stock (kits and scratcbuilding even) specifically for their club layout, not because they don't want to run their own stock, but to get prototypical trains for the location and era of the layout. |
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Post by brakie on Jul 1, 2019 2:07:10 GMT -8
Even the most prototypical club runs engines lettered for railroads that never owned that type of engine because members don't want to wear out their prize toys. Also the way some model railroaders act, it may as well be a daycare for childern. They are toys, plain and simple. I'm going to disagree with that. I know of many clubs whose members have built stock (kits and scratcbuilding even) specifically for their club layout, not because they don't want to run their own stock, but to get prototypical trains for the location and era of the layout. Tim, the NEB&W of RPI was such a layout and as you mention there are other clubs that follow strict era specific modeling. |
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Post by Dear Leader on Jul 1, 2019 2:28:07 GMT -8
Even the most prototypical club runs engines lettered for railroads that never owned that type of engine because members don't want to wear out their prize toys. Also the way some model railroaders act, it may as well be a daycare for childern. They are toys, plain and simple. I'm going to disagree with that. I know of many clubs whose members have built stock (kits and scratcbuilding even) specifically for their club layout, not because they don't want to run their own stock, but to get prototypical trains for the location and era of the layout. I said "most", not "all" clubs. You wrote "many", not "all" clubs. You validate my point. |
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