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Post by sd80mac on Jul 15, 2019 5:20:37 GMT -8
With all of this self-righteous high-horse “I am gonna go do some actual modeling and quit complaining about Walthers cast on grabs” posturing, I couldn’t help but recap the four threads on the top page concerning Walthers products. All but the fourth one are practically free of any kind of complaint or confusion about cast-on grabs. What I do see, and IMO every bit rightfully so I might add, is aggravation and disappointment about Walthers underproducing and artificially creating inflated prices on the 60 foot flat cars. I also see 12bridge trying his best to stifle that discussion. As far as I am concerned, there’s either an element of poor reading comprehension going on here, or there’s a bias confirmation occurring. No one is bemoaning the fact the flats have cast-on grabs, they are bemoaning that the cars have been pushed above a fair price for such a model, not once, but TWICE in less than a year. And I am still waiting for just one example of “borderline psychotic hatred toward certain manufacturers”...... The biggest offender was bgb (who was a Grade A, 100% certified whackadoodle), though there have been a handful of others. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 15, 2019 6:15:22 GMT -8
The biggest offender was bgb (who was a Grade A, 100% certified whackadoodle).... Who could forget his "Are you still beating your wife?" style of open letters to manufacturers here on the forum. |
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Post by NS4122 on Jul 15, 2019 8:22:47 GMT -8
The biggest offender was bgb (who was a Grade A, 100% certified whackadoodle).... Who could forget his "Are you still beating your wife?" style of open letters to manufacturers here on the forum. The sad part was that a large number of people on the forum saw nothing wrong with it and thought is was okay. |
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Post by nsc39d8 on Jul 15, 2019 9:27:00 GMT -8
I will say Brian Banna(bgb) is a great modeler. While I do support his efforts to correct errors I did find the beating down of every model was some what annoying. This was especially true of models where all
anyone had seen was a line drawing. I find it very hard to berate a model on just the preliminary showings. I think a lot of people are happy with the new announcements and some like me have 'lets wait and see"
thinking. The only model announced that interests me was Scaletrains NS C40-9.
CSXT, my shoreline here in NC just bought some CSX SD60I's in the paint scheme in your picture, what paint do you recommend?
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 15, 2019 9:32:31 GMT -8
I will say Brian Banna(bgb) is a great modeler. While I do support his efforts to correct errors I did find the beating down of every model was some what annoying. And his beating down of other members. Heaven forbid someone make some diesel spotting error in one of his threads! He would have gone into meltdown mode last week at the suggestion some were making that a GP40P was just a GP40-2 minus a few Dash 2 spotting characteristics. One can only hope he's not so caustic in person. |
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Post by csx3305 on Jul 15, 2019 9:55:59 GMT -8
The biggest offender was bgb (who was a Grade A, 100% certified whackadoodle), though there have been a handful of others. Banna left in a huff and deleted his profile here back in January, presumably because he wasn’t getting the ego stroke he was looking for in the first place, and to my knowledge hasn’t been back since. So three or four of you are impugning this entire forum chiefly on the actions of one narcissist who hasn’t even posted here in six months? Seems like a bit of a reach to me. And per 12bridge, “.....manufacturers who want nothing to do with this forum....”. Who are these mysterious companies? Walthers? Atlas? Would either of them bother to represent themselves here, even if all we ever did was sing their praises? I doubt it. I know for a fact that Athearn, Scaletrains, Tangent, and Exactrail all have employees that post here, as I have corresponded with them in one form or another. Something just doesn’t wash on this one, IMO. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 10:12:24 GMT -8
When a company calls something "road number specific"; and it doesn't match the photos of the road number in the least? Is that something that gets one labeled a "whackadoodle"? If he or she takes issue with that? I guess if one doesn't have anything nice to say...then keep it to ones' self? In that case: All I want for Christmas is a B23-7 from Rapido. Undecorated. With sound. In a NICE BOX. 
Secondly: I would also take an Extended Vision Caboose in MoPac Vermilion in a nice MINT GREEN BOX. 
Anyway...back to 3rd PlanIt. |
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Post by NS4122 on Jul 15, 2019 10:27:26 GMT -8
CSXT, my shoreline here in NC just bought some CSX SD60I's in the paint scheme in your picture, what paint do you recommend? Sorry I can't recommend the correct paint, since the last time I painted something CSX, the paint scheme used bright future blue which is long gone. Also, I no longer model CSX as I have switched to NS and will soon be changing my screen name and avatar. |
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Post by csxt8400 on Jul 15, 2019 10:36:49 GMT -8
I will say Brian Banna(bgb) is a great modeler. While I do support his efforts to correct errors I did find the beating down of every model was some what annoying. This was especially true of models where all anyone had seen was a line drawing. I find it very hard to berate a model on just the preliminary showings. I think a lot of people are happy with the new announcements and some like me have 'lets wait and see" thinking. The only model announced that interests me was Scaletrains NS C40-9. CSXT, my shoreline here in NC just bought some CSX SD60I's in the paint scheme in your picture, what paint do you recommend? I think the tru-color YN3 blue should get you the desired shade. TCP-289. Admittedly I haven't used it myself. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 15, 2019 11:25:58 GMT -8
You guys will shred one of the best modelers there is, but put up with Al Mayo. What a world.
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Post by fr8kar on Jul 15, 2019 12:05:47 GMT -8
You guys will shred one of the best modelers there is, but put up with Al Mayo. What a world. I don't think anyone is shredding Brian's modeling. It speaks for itself. I can think of only one or two who are his peers. But his all or nothing forum personality doesn't work well with more than a handful of people, especially for people who don't know a personality like that in the real world. Those of us who have followed his build threads over the years knows he does great work but burns out quickly often leaving a build unfinished. I appreciate what I learn from the builds Brian shares, including the unspoken lesson to take it easy and let some things slide lest you quit in frustration. As far as Al Mayo is concerned, the ignore feature is a wonderful thing. It's easy to forget some pests even exist. |
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Post by sd80mac on Jul 15, 2019 12:29:14 GMT -8
You guys will shred one of the best modelers there is, but put up with Al Mayo. What a world. I don't think anyone is shredding Brian's modeling. It speaks for itself. I can think of only one or two who are his peers. But his all or nothing forum personality doesn't work well with more than a handful of people, especially for people who don't know a personality like that in the real world. Those of us who have followed his build threads over the years knows he does great work but burns out quickly often leaving a build unfinished. I appreciate what I learn from the builds Brian shares, including the unspoken lesson to take it easy and let some things slide lest you quit in frustration. As far as Al Mayo is concerned, the ignore feature is a wonderful thing. It's easy to forget some pests even exist. Bingo |
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Post by milgentrains on Jul 15, 2019 15:38:08 GMT -8
I've alwas wondered what happened to the guy who was modelling the D&RGW narrow gauge in the diesel era. I know everything was fiction but his latout tours every Sunday were breathtaking.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 15, 2019 15:50:52 GMT -8
I've alwas wondered what happened to the guy who was modelling the D&RGW narrow gauge in the diesel era. I know everything was fiction but his latout tours every Sunday were breathtaking. Sounds like Mike Lehman. He's still over on the Kalmbach forum, though not as frequently as awhile ago. Yup, he does some interesting stuff. Ed Edward Sutorik |
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Post by el3672 on Jul 15, 2019 21:47:35 GMT -8
Just sayin, I'm an another follower/ peer of Brian's work, a top shelf proto elite modeler. I had a habit in the past of printing out
a lot of his model builds segments, great to learn his process before he seemed to burn out at times. Thanks Brian!!!! keep it going and continue to share.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 16, 2019 3:46:14 GMT -8
I've alwas wondered what happened to the guy who was modelling the D&RGW narrow gauge in the diesel era. I know everything was fiction but his latout tours every Sunday were breathtaking. One or more members complained about the whimsical, non-prototypical aspect of his work. Who could it have been? Initials bgb, if I had to guess.... |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 16, 2019 3:59:13 GMT -8
I've alwas wondered what happened to the guy who was modelling the D&RGW narrow gauge in the diesel era. I know everything was fiction but his latout tours every Sunday were breathtaking. One or more members complained about the whimsical, non-prototypical aspect of his work. Who could it have been? Initials bgb, if I had to guess.... I recall there was a tiff over Mikes loyalty to ST Tsunami sound decoders vs. ESU loksound as well. It was around that time he departed and haven't seen him since. Shame really because he was a regular in the Sunday Photo Fun topic and even if a bit "whimsical" I enjoyed following his work. The MR community is definitely more on the whimsical side, if you had to characterize the forum, so maybe that's where he fits in most. Still, I'd welcome his return. |
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Post by milgentrains on Jul 16, 2019 12:30:59 GMT -8
I seem to remember bgb having a near meltdown about an Intermountain SD40-2. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by valenciajim on Jul 16, 2019 14:35:05 GMT -8
I really enjoyed Mike's posts. His layout was pretty interesting as well. Too bad he doesn't post here any longer.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Jul 16, 2019 14:47:52 GMT -8
Sure, I like layout photos. But my preference is on the detailing equipment aspect most commonly seen in the RPM world and can only dream of achieving even a fraction of the some of the advanced modelling skills seen there. The problem with layout photos and dioramas is they become repetitive very fast. At least with equipment, RPM or workbench postings, the subject matter is different with each new freight car.
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Post by ambluco on Jul 16, 2019 15:27:40 GMT -8
Yes, especially when the same ones are repeatedly posted (instead of referencing a past post). And I don't mean new photos of the same layout, I mean the SAME photos over and over again. We all already know what thickness plywood you used to build your old layout.
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Post by csx3305 on Jul 16, 2019 16:18:00 GMT -8
I seem to remember bgb having a near meltdown about an Intermountain SD40-2. Please correct me if I'm wrong. That was a frequent citation in his posts, but if I remember right, the final straw occurred over the thread about the Genesis 4axle units with the wrong nose piece and the bad mold parting line. GP40P-2 maybe? Not sure. |
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Jul 16, 2019 20:13:42 GMT -8
You all need to start a support group for how brb hurt you where you can discuss all the mean nasty things he did imagined or real. Sounds like some of you could benefit from therapy as you conduct a Salem witch hunt of him in the same manner you believe he did with the manufacturers.
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Post by carrman on Jul 16, 2019 20:59:23 GMT -8
I've alwas wondered what happened to the guy who was modelling the D&RGW narrow gauge in the diesel era. I know everything was fiction but his latout tours every Sunday were breathtaking. One or more members complained about the whimsical, non-prototypical aspect of his work. Who could it have been? Initials bgb, if I had to guess.... I sure got a gut full of his whimsical narrow gauge stuff. I don't miss it. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 16, 2019 22:56:27 GMT -8
SOMECALLMETIM,
I used to be a harsh critic back in the day on the old Atlas Forum and rec.models.railroad, at least when it came to NH stuff. But even at my worst of moments, I never called for someone to be fired over errors like he did.
I learned that if you talk with manufacturers instead of yelling at them, you get better results. My favorite example is when the Rutland guy went nuts on the Athearn reps at Springfield one year because they dared make a Rutland RS-3 with roller bearing trucks when everyone knows Rutland RS-3's had friction bearing trucks. The horror! After the yelling ended (and I mean upset yelling), the Athearn rep turned to us and said that he'd never make another Rutland item again. And I don't blame him. Who'd want to put up with that nonsense?
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Post by stevewagner on Jul 17, 2019 1:17:46 GMT -8
Paul, thanks very much for your post.
I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed Mike Lehman's "whimsical" approach. I still think the best slogan Model Railroader ever used was "Model Railroading Is Fun!" To quote two old Latin maxim, "Suum clique" ("To each his own") and "De gustibus non est disputandum" ("There should be no arguing about tastes.")
This is not to take away from the many informative and inspiring posts others have made on the old Atlas Forum and this one.
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Post by carrman on Jul 17, 2019 17:08:53 GMT -8
SOMECALLMETIM, I used to be a harsh critic back in the day on the old Atlas Forum and rec.models.railroad, at least when it came to NH stuff. But even at my worst of moments, I never called for someone to be fired over errors like he did. I learned that if you talk with manufacturers instead of yelling at them, you get better results. My favorite example is when the Rutland guy went nuts on the Athearn reps at Springfield one year because they dared make a Rutland RS-3 with roller bearing trucks when everyone knows Rutland RS-3's had friction bearing trucks. The horror! After the yelling ended (and I mean upset yelling), the Athearn rep turned to us and said that he'd never make another Rutland item again. And I don't blame him. Who'd want to put up with that nonsense? And you can be sweet as pie, offer a company the earth, moon and stars and all the prototype info they could ever use, and still get blown off. I've been, and so have others. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 17, 2019 17:10:20 GMT -8
I seem to remember bgb having a near meltdown about an Intermountain SD40-2. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Well, it IS a POS..... |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 18, 2019 2:26:30 GMT -8
I seem to remember bgb having a near meltdown about an Intermountain SD40-2. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Well, it IS a POS..... Yeah, it had some things wrong with it that shouldn't even have left the factory with. Structurally, not even detail-wise. I ended up with that particular engine, and spent a good couple of hours taking it apart and fixing the horrible way it was (not) put together. When I was done, I had an engine that ran and sounded good, and didn't fall apart if you happened to pick it up by the shell. It was enough for me to not deliberately buy another one, though I did wind up with a couple more through trades. All are gone now, and ST units replace them. And yes, Brian can be a little --focused-- on prototypical accuracy, but in person he's a little more easygoing. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jul 18, 2019 8:05:51 GMT -8
carrman,
That's also true; after all, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I worked on the BLI NH I-4 4-6-2 project with the NHRHTA. I spent hours going over photos, making Word docs with arrows and comparison photos saying to do this vs. that, etc. We, the NHRHTA, were as helpful as possible to get the most accurate I-4 model made. When the pre-production model came out at Springfield, we were very happy with the model and gave our approval and appreciation of it. But when the model actually came out...
Well, apparently, BLI was not happy with the pre-order levels. A $700 Pacific at the same time a $700 UP 4-12-2 came out didn't fly that well with the public, especially when the NH I-5 4-6-4 was ~$400 five years earlier and $550 for the 2nd run I-5 a year before. So, BLI decided to "tweak" the NH I-4 by widening the rear trailing truck frame (wider than the cab sides above) and reducing the size of the pilot wheels (from 36" to 28" or so) in order for it to go around incredibly tight curves. This was supposed to, I guess, help sales. I put mine on an 18" radius snap track and not only did it fit, I was able to derail both pilot and trailing trucks inwards towards the center of the curve...by a lot.
It really gave the I-4 an odd appearance having tiny wheels under the pilot and a really wide trailing truck. It was not what we signed off on, that's for sure.
Now, some of our more strident NH fans went after BLI tooth and nail. One guy sent a multi-page letter (he doesn't e-mail) ranting about the I-4, and there were others who called and wrote e-mails, etc. Not many, but loud. BLI told us it was the most negative reaction they've ever had to a model. Why would they put up with that? BLI more or less told us it would be a long time, if ever, before they made another NH model. IMHO, I think that's mostly due to the less than stellar sales of the I-4, but the over-the-top ranting pushed us right off the "to do" list for the foreseeable future.
If you approach a manufacturer and explain how making a correct model will improve sales vs. ranting that they should all be fired as incompetent...which argument would you listen to more? No one likes to be told they are wrong, let alone rubbing their nose in it. You get someone's hackles up, and they'll push back.
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