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Post by godzilla on Nov 10, 2019 19:13:48 GMT -8
can somebody explain this to me?
Dave
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Post by godzilla on Nov 10, 2019 20:48:22 GMT -8
Btw the prices are 109.00 and $149.00.
Dave
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 10, 2019 21:22:15 GMT -8
Because they have a DCC decoder inside, and maybe a speaker, and some LED's sprinkled around, and lots of detailing, and specific body parts. The Santa Fe caboose I bought in 1958 is still available, though: www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=RND90127It's currently going for 29.98. You might consider that option. It's still a nice little model of a very beautiful caboose. I recommend it highly. And it now includes working knuckle couplers. Ed
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Post by 71eagle on Nov 10, 2019 21:41:40 GMT -8
Contact Athearn with the question.
Arlen Wiederstein
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Post by thunderhawk on Nov 11, 2019 1:17:20 GMT -8
With the snarky answers out of the way, it is because each model for each particular road has different window placements and various cupolas which requires different molds for each. Along with whatever other detail differences there may be.
Add in the fact that while a UP boxcar will sell to a large cross section of modelers, a UP caboose will sell only to those that model the UP, reducing the overall market for each caboose.
So basically it is the same reason high quality, road specific passenger cars are much more expensive than a highly detailed boxcar. Limited market.
The lighting and sound options further raise the price for the top line versions.
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Post by carrman on Nov 11, 2019 3:17:35 GMT -8
They really aren't that much more expensive than the SP bay windows were. My dealer is getting me one for 87.99
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Post by brakie on Nov 11, 2019 3:18:12 GMT -8
IMHO its a museum quality caboose with a very limited market like Thunderhawk mention thus the high price. All three of my C&HV cabooses are ex-Chessie side bays(Athearn) while my Summerset Ry shoving caboose is a former CR ex-NYC caboose (Walthers). Those cabooses is from our connecting roads not (say) the UP,BN,SP,KCS or any road where long transportation was required.
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Post by brakie on Nov 11, 2019 3:34:07 GMT -8
Because they have a DCC decoder inside, and maybe a speaker, and some LED's sprinkled around, and lots of detailing, and specific body parts. The Santa Fe caboose I bought in 1958 is still available, though: www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=RND90127It's currently going for 29.98. You might consider that option. It's still a nice little model of a very beautiful caboose. I recommend it highly. And it now includes working knuckle couplers. Ed Ed, There are much better caboose available then that decades old BB Santa Fe caboose. You should have used a Walthers cabooses as a example in your answer.. And why pay $29.95 for that decades old caboose when they can be found used at train shows with KD couplers for $3-5.00? BTW.. That museum quality caboose costs more then I paid for my the majority of my locomotive fleet consisting of Atlas P2K and my other higher end locomotives.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 11, 2019 5:08:25 GMT -8
Because they have a DCC decoder inside, and maybe a speaker, and some LED's sprinkled around, and lots of detailing, and specific body parts. The Santa Fe caboose I bought in 1958 is still available, though: www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=RND90127It's currently going for 29.98. You might consider that option. It's still a nice little model of a very beautiful caboose. I recommend it highly. And it now includes working knuckle couplers. Ed Ed, There are much better caboose available then that decades old BB Santa Fe caboose. You should have used a Walthers cabooses as a example in your answer.. And why pay $29.95 for that decades old caboose when they can be found used at train shows with KD couplers for $3-5.00? Ed was being facetious. He also forget to mention that today it comes with improved plastic end hand railings, better quality decoration, and metal wheels for your $30.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 11, 2019 5:30:46 GMT -8
They really aren't that much more expensive than the SP bay windows were. My dealer is getting me one for 87.99 Yes. The MSRP of the lighted SP Genesis bays was $99.98. The lights only (apples to apples) new ICC Genesis cabooses is $109.98. only an increase of ten dollars in 8 years. Not too bad.
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Post by markfj on Nov 11, 2019 5:44:43 GMT -8
To replicate just “one” caboose similar to what Athearn is offering you will need (as a minimum):
Good reference material
A starting point, either another model, a 3D printed shell, or a set of styrene sheets.
Detail parts including: brake wheels, brake gear, hand rails and grab irons, interior parts, etc.
Correct trucks and wheelsets
Accurate decals or the ability to print your own set
Several paint colors and an airbursh
Time and skill to assemble the model
Let’s arbitrarily give each of the smaller items a cost of say $4; the detail parts alone will cost ~$20. Trucks and wheelsets add at least another $10 (that’s cheap!). Paint and decals are easily another $10 (that’s cheap too!) So we are into the project for about $40 in parts and material already for just building "one" unit and we’re not paying ourselves a salary (nor did we included shipping, handling, inventory costs, etc.).
I could go into greater detail, but you get the picture (and this argument has been discussed ad nauseam).
Athearn is selling a scale replica, not a toy, and the price reflects the effort.
Thanks, Mark J.
Reading, PA
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Post by godzilla on Nov 11, 2019 5:52:33 GMT -8
I have been in this hobby for a long time and don't get me wrong the cabooses look great and wish I could buy a couple but I can't so to those that can afford them, I hope you enjoy them and please post pictures when they arrive In a year or so.
Dave
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 11, 2019 6:12:36 GMT -8
They cost that much because the market has shown people will pay that.
I've sold older run Atlas cabooses that were like $40 new for double and triple list price once they get hard to find. I have some Bowser ones going now that have a fair amount of attention, I was shocked to find none on eBay at all. FWIW those are a pretty nice deal at $30 or so a shot.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 11, 2019 6:43:30 GMT -8
They cost that much because the market has shown people will pay that. The above implies Athearn is charging a higher than may be customary profit. Or they are making their traditional markup and Athearn believes there is sufficient demand at these price points. Basic Econ 101.
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Post by csx3305 on Nov 11, 2019 7:06:47 GMT -8
Didn’t we recently have a thread/poll on this very forum in which most people seemed to think 100 dollars was a reasonable price for a high-end road-specific crummy?
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Post by riogrande on Nov 11, 2019 7:09:08 GMT -8
I have been in this hobby for a long time and don't get me wrong the cabooses look great and wish I could buy a couple but I can't so to those that can afford them, I hope you enjoy them and please post pictures when they arrive In a year or so. Dave When the Genesis bays first came out I didn't have much hobby money. It was a few years into the great recession and I was recovering with part time or contract work. But the SP bays window was iconic to me as an SP fan so I managed to afford an u lighted for $55 at mbk. Hopefully if there is one special to you, you can swing it.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 11, 2019 8:33:42 GMT -8
With the snarky answers out of the way, it is because each model for each particular road has different window placements and various cupolas which requires different molds for each. Along with whatever other detail differences there may be. Add in the fact that while a UP boxcar will sell to a large cross section of modelers, a UP caboose will sell only to those that model the UP, reducing the overall market for each caboose. So basically it is the same reason high quality, road specific passenger cars are much more expensive than a highly detailed boxcar. Limited market. The lighting and sound options further raise the price for the top line versions. I meant no snark in my answer, so if you find it there, you're the one who put it there. I meant my entire response as a straightforward answer (which is pretty much the same answer you gave) plus also suggesting a lower price alternative (since that seemed a coincident concern of the OP). Ed, There are much better caboose available then that decades old BB Santa Fe caboose. You should have used a Walthers cabooses as a example in your answer.. And why pay $29.95 for that decades old caboose when they can be found used at train shows with KD couplers for $3-5.00? Larry, I chose the Athearn caboose because it just popped into my head. To me, it is a classic. And, as I noted, it's been around for a LONG time. Like myself. My purpose was NOT to find the ideal low-cost caboose for the OP. "Ed was being facetious. He also forget to mention that today it comes with improved plastic end hand railings, better quality decoration, and metal wheels for your $30. Nope, not facetious either. I didn't "forget". I chose not to go further into the subject. And I agree. There have been improvements. In this era of Walthers producing mostly Mainline stuff, that caboose will fit right in. Even though the mold must be at least 70 years old. I, by the way, still have mine. In a box. Paid $0.98, as I recall*. Plus the PX discount. The Santa Fe scheme was artfully replaced by myself with a bright red, brushed on by hand. Testors, I'll wager. Decaling still is yet to occur. Ed *My recollection appears to be incorrect. The catalogs from those years show them at $1.89.
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Post by 12bridge on Nov 11, 2019 8:40:15 GMT -8
Being that Athearn "Placed the order" already, lets hope they don't bomb out like the Genesis SP ones did. Those were so overproduced its not even funny (And this was confirmed by a former representative of the company), they were trying to see if they could keep stock of them so to say. Needless to say it did not work, and Lombard could not give the Lighted ones away for 30$ (It was a score for SP modelers!). I laugh when I see them at train shows with 80$ tags on them (Literally, just yesterday saw that).
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Post by grahamline on Nov 11, 2019 8:46:39 GMT -8
The new Athearn caboose line is not so much different from contemporary engines. Multiple pieces, several decorating schemes, detail variations and so on. All that's missing are a $5 motor and cast chassis. Factor in limited sales appeal, and you might ask why they don't cost more.
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Post by middledivision on Nov 11, 2019 9:11:17 GMT -8
Being that Athearn "Placed the order" already, lets hope they don't bomb out like the Genesis SP ones did. Those were so overproduced its not even funny (And this was confirmed by a former representative of the company), they were trying to see if they could keep stock of them so to say. Needless to say it did not work, and Lombard could not give the Lighted ones away for 30$ (It was a score for SP modelers!). I laugh when I see them at train shows with 80$ tags on them (Literally, just yesterday saw that). U50's anyone?
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Post by valenciajim on Nov 11, 2019 9:23:02 GMT -8
I want to know where the train shows are that you can get old blue box cars for $3-$5.00. In the last year I went to two train shows and I had trouble finding blue box cars for less than $10. And the ones at that price were typically missing couplers or were otherwise defective. Last summer I went to a show and the price of the discounted blue box cars (i.e., those that were missing couplers) was $10 each or three for $24. I offered to buy four for $32, but the vendor said he could not do that. The best he could do was four for $34 (three for $24 plus one for $10). The venue also made them collect sales tax, or so they claimed. Maybe, like most things, old Blue Box freight cars are more expensive in California.
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gnfan
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Post by gnfan on Nov 11, 2019 9:45:22 GMT -8
Road number specific cabooses with lights and sound this seems like a bargain to me at that price. I'm not really excited by the sound but the lights are nice.
So this is why I feel the price is reasonable. Many, and I do mean many, years ago I purchased several GN and SP&S specific brass caboose models. I paid on average about $120.00 each. Then I had to paint them, decal them, add couplers and replace the trucks because they really didn't roll very well. The latest brass imports of GN specific cabooses from "North Bank Line" run $375.00 each. No lights, no decoders.
I also recently purchased from Shapeways some SP&S caboose sides, ends and cupola pieces. These parts ran me around $85.00. Add in the Atlas Caboose for the chassis, a train show bargain at $20, some Plano etch parts for end rails, steps, roof walks etc, add paint, decals, trucks and I have easily $130.00 into the bits and pieces. Now I have to put it all together which is admittedly a pleasant and rewarding task.
So if Athearn does GN, NP and SP&S specific caboose models which if I buy them from my preferred dealer will be at a discount then count me in for some.
DavidB
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Post by brakie on Nov 11, 2019 9:46:28 GMT -8
Ed, There are much better caboose available then that decades old BB Santa Fe caboose. You should have used a Walthers cabooses as a example in your answer.. And why pay $29.95 for that decades old caboose when they can be found used at train shows with KD couplers for $3-5.00? Ed was being facetious. He also forget to mention that today it comes with improved plastic end hand railings, better quality decoration, and metal wheels for your $30. Colin, That's true but, underneath all that fancy trimmings is a caboose body made decades ago and its age shows.. The newer Walthers Main Line cabooses is far better. I love my two Main Line CR (ex-NYC) bay window cabooses that I bought four CR GP38-2s to go with them.. My original plan was to remove CR and put SSRy (Summerset Ry) on the sides.
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Post by brakie on Nov 11, 2019 10:01:12 GMT -8
I want to know where the train shows are that you can get old blue box cars for $3-$5.00. In the last year I went to two train shows and I had trouble finding blue box cars for less than $10. And the ones at that price were typically missing couplers or were otherwise defective. Last summer I went to a show and the price of the discounted blue box cars (i.e., those that were missing couplers) was $10 each or three for $24. I offered to buy four for $32, but the vendor said he could not do that. The best he could do was four for $34 (three for $24 plus one for $10). The venue also made them collect sales tax, or so they claimed. Maybe, like most things, old Blue Box freight cars are more expensive in California. Jim, I found old BB and Roundhouse cars for $3-5.00 at the following shows here in Ohio Bucyrus, Berea, Marion,Wooster and several others that I have attended.
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 11, 2019 11:05:06 GMT -8
Let's look on the bright side. the new Athearn cabooses will have a whole lot less handrails to make wavy, as compared to their locomotives. That alone might be worth the extra money. Less is more, people!
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Post by brakie on Nov 11, 2019 12:56:08 GMT -8
Let's look on the bright side. the new Athearn cabooses will have a whole lot less handrails to make wavy, as compared to their locomotives. That alone might be worth the extra money. Less is more, people! I 've been replacing those wavy handrails on the RTR GP38-2 and GP40-2s with the old fashion metal "water pipe" handrails. Even though they are oversize anything beats the wavy spaghetti thin handrails. To be honest and oddly enough my GATX GP38-2 and my HELM GP40-2 did not suffer the wavy handrail problem but, the flywheel in the GATX unit came loose. A easy fix. Both units still have their plastic handrails.
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Post by craigz on Nov 11, 2019 12:58:13 GMT -8
Road number specific cabooses with lights and sound this seems like a bargain to me at that price. I'm not really excited by the sound but the lights are nice. So this is why I feel the price is reasonable. Many, and I do mean many, years ago I purchased several GN and SP&S specific brass caboose models. I paid on average about $120.00 each. Then I had to paint them, decal them, add couplers and replace the trucks because they really didn't roll very well. The latest brass imports of GN specific cabooses from "North Bank Line" run $375.00 each. No lights, no decoders. I also recently purchased from Shapeways some SP&S caboose sides, ends and cupola pieces. These parts ran me around $85.00. Add in the Atlas Caboose for the chassis, a train show bargain at $20, some Plano etch parts for end rails, steps, roof walks etc, add paint, decals, trucks and I have easily $130.00 into the bits and pieces. Now I have to put it all together which is admittedly a pleasant and rewarding task. So if Athearn does GN, NP and SP&S specific caboose models which if I buy them from my preferred dealer will be at a discount then count me in for some. DavidB For the Seaboard model, you could start with the Wright Trak resin kit which was $60 or thereabouts if I recall...add trucks, couplers, paint, decals...and add your time. $110 retail for the lighted version from Athearn is pretty reasonable and I imagine will look a couple of orders of magnitude better than the resin build. The Athearn car's not cheap, but it's reasonable if one really stops to consider what's involved.
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Post by valenciajim on Nov 11, 2019 13:03:18 GMT -8
I want to know where the train shows are that you can get old blue box cars for $3-$5.00. In the last year I went to two train shows and I had trouble finding blue box cars for less than $10. And the ones at that price were typically missing couplers or were otherwise defective. Last summer I went to a show and the price of the discounted blue box cars (i.e., those that were missing couplers) was $10 each or three for $24. I offered to buy four for $32, but the vendor said he could not do that. The best he could do was four for $34 (three for $24 plus one for $10). The venue also made them collect sales tax, or so they claimed. Maybe, like most things, old Blue Box freight cars are more expensive in California. Jim, I found old BB and Roundhouse cars for $3-5.00 at the following shows here in Ohio Bucyrus, Berea, Marion,Wooster and several others that I have attended. So we do pay more in California!
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 11, 2019 13:20:48 GMT -8
Maybe, like most things, old Blue Box freight cars are more expensive in California. Well, sure, that's intentional. Make the made-in-California business model so prohibitively expensive, that they chase it away to Arizona, Mexico, or (in this case) China.
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Post by theengineshed on Nov 11, 2019 17:03:39 GMT -8
Freight cars interchanged with other roads, cabs not so much. Smaller market, you'd expect to pay more, rightly so. If they keep the runs small so they sell quickly, and do a different set of road names every month or so, I think Athearn will do fine. Quality RTR road specific cabs are long overdue...
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