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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Feb 17, 2020 17:50:41 GMT -8
A pair of P-42's, a couple of baggage cars and a full set of Superliners...done Rapido style would be expensive but well worth it.
I could unload my Kato P-42's and Walthers Superliners.
Or maybe a Siemens Charger?
RMT
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Post by jonklein611 on Feb 18, 2020 4:09:38 GMT -8
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Post by mdvle on Feb 18, 2020 6:03:50 GMT -8
Total foobie - the California Cars and Surfliners, while similar in look to the Superliners, have 2 sets of doors per side on the lower level vs the 1 per side for the Superliners.
But, for a lot of people these are "good enough" and thus that part of the potential market for an accurate model is gone.
[so correction from below - they are foobies as California Cars / Surfliner cars but accurate in that some Superliner cars did carry those paint schemes]
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Post by sd80mac on Feb 18, 2020 6:24:15 GMT -8
The Amtrak California and Surfliner schemes on the Walthers Superliners are NOT foobies. They represent the group of Superliners that were repainted into the AmCal and Surfliner liveries in the late 2000s. They are actually the only "correct" models ever offered to Amtrak California, other than Athearn's F59PHI and Atlas' B32-8PHW.
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Post by mdvle on Feb 18, 2020 6:40:11 GMT -8
The Amtrak California and Surfliner schemes on the Walthers Superliners are NOT foobies. They represent the group of Superliners that were repainted into the AmCal and Surfliner liveries in the late 2000s. They are actually the only "correct" models ever offered to Amtrak California, other than Athearn's F59PHI and Atlas' B32-8PHW. Good to know, edited my original posting.
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Post by mdvle on Feb 18, 2020 7:04:56 GMT -8
A pair of P-42's, a couple of baggage cars and a full set of Superliners...done Rapido style would be expensive but well worth it. I could unload my Kato P-42's and Walthers Superliners. Or maybe a Siemens Charger?
Siemens Charger is being done by Bachmann.
Superliners. No question Rapido (or someone else) could do a good job with a high end model, and there are some who would pay the price to buy them. But, given the abundance of Kato and Walthers models already on the market (and Walthers today has several of the Kato models on sale for $57) my guess is that a high-end model would struggle to sell sufficient quantities to make it viable given the tooling costs.
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Post by mdvle on Feb 18, 2020 7:24:22 GMT -8
Things that will sell: P42 - the Athearn one sells for top dollar, and it's a midrange model at best. Amfleets - as long as they roll... Viewliners - haven't been done in over a decade and fetch 2x their asking price on eBay. A typical train is a diesel + 5 coaches and a lounge, or 2 diesels, 3-4 coaches, lounge, diner, sleepers, and baggage... 8 cars minimum. Rapido can make money off of them. I suspect licensing is the holdup, not the money.
P42 - also sold by Kato, with a new run due in a couple of months according to the Walthers website. Two existing models, like the Superliners, make it difficult. But unlike the Superliners, modelers are willing to buy/pay for engines and there does appear to be demand for a new Genesis model - and the ability to accurately do the variations increases it's selling potential. So this I could see happening.
Amfleets - enough problems with existing models likely viable.
Viewliners - eBay prices don't reflect demand in terms of a new tooled model. To cover the cost of developing a new model you need to sell several thousand models, eBay prices can simply reflect what 10 people are willing to pay. If Walthers still have the molds then they could re-run in next year, cutting into potential sales for a new model.
Consists - don't really matter. Yes, true Amtrak fans or people who want to recreate passenger operations will look at what Amtrak operates and attempt to recreate that. But 80%+ of the market won't do that, they will buy and engine and a couple of cars and call it a day. Your diesel +5 coaches and lounge is about 6 1/2 feet long, your 2 diesels and 8 cars about just over 9 feet long - most layouts aren't going to dedicate that much space to a passenger train. This cuts into the number of coaches that can be expected to sell, which is why (to get back to the original comments from Rapido), a lot of this depends on how well the Horizon stuff sells as that will help Rapido and others guess how much of a market there is for high end Amtrak models.
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Post by markfj on Feb 18, 2020 7:52:02 GMT -8
I’m not an Amtrak modeler, but I always thought the Amfleet cars were very sharp.
Other than the poor rolling characteristics of the Walthers Amfleet cars are there any other issues that would warrant a better version? I’ve read that even after tweaking, the trucks are still lead bricks.
Given the inside bearing design of the prototype trucks, I think it’s going to take some clever engineering to get an HO scale version that rolls well.
The only Amtrak model I own is an old Bachmann E60CP I got like 35 years ago as a birthday present. I would be tempted to buy a better version if there was a fix for the trucks on the Walthers Amfleet cars (or a better car came to market).
Thanks, Mark J.
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Post by rails4dmv on Feb 18, 2020 9:09:56 GMT -8
If anyone owns a set of the second run of Rapido LRC passenger cars, those cars glide on the tracks. Rapido has the inside bearing design down pat. So I'm confident the Rapido Horizon/Comet cars won't roll like bricks. When I got my Walthers Proto Amfleets, one engine struggled to pull 4 cars. To get them to roll decently, I had to disassemble every single truck, check for burrs on the inner tubing that holds the wheels & lubricate the inside of the trucks after reassembling. This was a major disappointment. The fact that Walthers wanted $90 for a lighted interior car which didn't roll & didn't include red end of car lights burnt me up. On the flipside, Bachmann new run of Amfleets are lighted, with red end of car lights and roll slightly better than the Walthers cars and are cheaper. If Walthers decides to do a second run of Amfleets, I hope they contact Rapido and ask them for help in designing a inner truck bearing. Interesting that Walthers releases as of late seems to be more towards freight related items. Aside from their yearly releases of the "train of the year", their hasn't been an individual Proto passenger car in almost a year.
Walthers is releasing a Proto Amtrak FP7A-B with the pointless arrow later this year, and as far as I know, no plans to release matching Phase 1 passenger cars.
So unless, they are making a surprise announcement, I don't see them doing anything for Amtrak's 50th, which will be a bummer, since for the longest they were the only game in town when it came to Amtrak passenger cars.
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Post by jonklein611 on Feb 18, 2020 9:37:11 GMT -8
I’m not an Amtrak modeler, but I always thought the Amfleet cars were very sharp. Other than the poor rolling characteristics of the Walthers Amfleet cars are there any other issues that would warrant a better version? I’ve read that even after tweaking, the trucks are still lead bricks. Given the inside bearing design of the prototype trucks, I think it’s going to take some clever engineering to get an HO scale version that rolls well. The only Amtrak model I own is an old Bachmann E60CP I got like 35 years ago as a birthday present. I would be tempted to buy a better version if there was a fix for the trucks on the Walthers Amfleet cars (or a better car came to market). Thanks, Mark J. Rapido solved this already. It's costly, but they have a ball bearing where the axle meets the truck (2 bearings per wheel) on their LRC cars, which also have inside bearings. They roll great!
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Post by NS4122 on Feb 18, 2020 13:25:21 GMT -8
I spoke to a KATO rep at the Springfield show about doing the Viewliner Baggage in HO. He said it makes sense and they would like to do it, but the higher ups in Japan aren't on board.
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Post by bdhicks on Feb 18, 2020 17:41:09 GMT -8
Someone definitely needs to do the Viewliner baggage cars in HO, since those get used with the Superliners as well as the eastern single-level trains. The diners and baggage-dorms have also never been done in HO, and I don't know if the Viewliner II sleepers are externally identical to the Viewliner I sleepers or not.
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Post by mdvle on Feb 18, 2020 18:45:03 GMT -8
Someone definitely needs to do the Viewliner baggage cars in HO, since those get used with the Superliners as well as the eastern single-level trains. The diners and baggage-dorms have also never been done in HO, and I don't know if the Viewliner II sleepers are externally identical to the Viewliner I sleepers or not.
So, not aimed at any one person, but.
In general, the models we want will only get made if someone thinks there is a large enough market to make a profit.
So, if you want Amtrak models then: - let manufacturers know, either via email, Facebook, or in person at a show
- when someone announces new Amtrak models, make sure other people interested in Amtrak know(*)
- gently/politely try and get others interested in modeling Amtrak - more modelers, more sales, more product.
* - Rapido announced the Horizon cars. Even if they aren't your era or region, if you know a modeler who they would be appropriate for make sure they are aware of them. It is amazing how many people online aren't aware of everything that is announced, let alone those who don't spend much time online. The more people who order Rapido's Horizon cars, the more likely Rapido will consider more Amtrak models in the future.
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