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Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 16:09:03 GMT -8
And I (a lowly nobody not connected to Rapido in anyway) agree that design failures are a problem - and will at this point remind people that Rapido spent $15,000 to fix the cab mistake on the RS-11 and that while people caught the cab height nobody apparently noticed the fan in question... I caught all the mistakes on the SP&S/BN FA-2 BEFORE they happened. I supplied Rapido with all the information that would have avoided those mistakes months earlier. They spent $0.00 correcting those. The higher price of the FA-2 would allow a lot more money to be spent on making that "niche" model. No problemo, as you Americans say. Ed
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Post by NS4122 on May 23, 2020 16:10:18 GMT -8
People need to realize that they can be critical without being jerks. I'm convinced that one individual's over the top, childish temper tantrum pertaining to a certain model is the reason they don't post any more. And I will say again that it would be irresponsible of a manufacturer not to follow the forums, ESPECIALLY the ones that allow negative criticism of manufacturers. I am not of the opinion that ignoring bad news is the best way to handle it. Ed
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Post by Judge Doom on May 23, 2020 16:39:42 GMT -8
10 years ago, Rapido was still only making passenger cars, and its only loco out was the FP9. That's a pretty low marker for #1 quality manufacturer, especially with some of the problems some had brought up with the old Super Continental line of cars. I'm not even sure they had their first freight car out yet (the CP Angus caboose). As for why they left this forum, go read the dozens of pages of posts in the B36gate threads for an answer. It's pretty evident. At a certain point, the environment of a forum and its members becomes too toxic for a manufacturer to keep engaging with it. Some at Rapido might lurk occasionally, but good luck getting replies from any of them. The old Atlas Forum had a stigma of its own among model RR manufacturers and those involved in the hobby, that some members there spent no small amount of time (or posts) "earning" for everyone. Rapido does nice work, but their etched parts leave a lot to be desired. Others can make things a lot finer... I think this needs to be said about Rapido: the overall feel of their locomotives needs some improvement given their price. All of my Rapido stuff is very light, feels "plasticky", and generally is not the best pulling or smoothest running, although still better than many other companies. The FL9s specifically are also very slow with a maximum scale speed around 45 mph, and the F40s are not great with their max speed being around 65-70. ScaleTrains and recent Athearn Genesis are currently the best out there in my opinion, as their fit and finish match the performance and detailing. They also do road number specific stuff which Rapido does not seem to want to do. Rapido became the #1 quality manufacturer about 10 years ago but never really advanced from there, and has been overtaken. They are a very personable and likable company, and I am still a fan, but I really would like to see them get back to the front of the pack if they are going to keep MSRP well above $300. The B36-7s were definitely a step in the right direction but still too plasticky and toylike in their finish. Am I crazy or does anyone else agree?
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 17:21:13 GMT -8
People need to realize that they can be critical without being jerks. I'm convinced that one individual's over the top, childish temper tantrum pertaining to a certain model is the reason they don't post any more. Maybe. It is wise, and sometimes difficult, for people in business to not make decisions based on emotion. I believe that person is in exile, and in no position to be irritating. Here. And it would be easy for Rapido to find that out. So I think I will tentatively disagree that that is the reason, and assume Rapido's presence or lack thereof is based on rationality. Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 17:27:24 GMT -8
I agree with Judge Doom that the environment here can get pretty, uh, tense. I prefer that over that of Kalmbach, where I don't bother to post anymore.
That does not mean that some of us don't sometimes need a rolled up newspaper across the nose. I might be included. Or not.
Anyway, I prefer rowdiness over repression. And I suggest manufacturers should get a thick(er) skin. I note that Shane, of ScaleTrains, takes no crap from anybody on this forum. Food for thought, perhaps.
Ed
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Post by NS4122 on May 23, 2020 18:46:05 GMT -8
That person is definitely not in exile. It's not a coincidence that they stop posting when they did. Maybe. It is wise, and sometimes difficult, for people in business to not make decisions based on emotion. I believe that person is in exile, and in no position to be irritating. Here. And it would be easy for Rapido to find that out. So I think I will tentatively disagree that that is the reason, and assume Rapido's presence or lack thereof is based on rationality. Ed
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Post by brammy on May 23, 2020 18:51:52 GMT -8
I prefer that over that of Kalmbach, where I don't bother to post anymore. I went down some weird rabbit hole over there trying to get a feel for when UP ran the SD90MACs and if they overlapped with the Gevos. I had a private message discussion with someone who said that forums like this might be a good place for that discussion. SO, I joined here and haven't regretted it. I enjoy the level of community here, and not having to worry about it being the board for a publisher. Now, this is the only model forum I go to, other than maybe taking a stroll through TrainOrders.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 23, 2020 19:20:22 GMT -8
Kalmbach has ceased alerting people of a PM. By doing this, they inhibit communication outside of their forum by members of the forum. A person could wonder why they would do that.
Ed
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Post by mdvle on May 23, 2020 19:25:17 GMT -8
It is a case of actions speak louder than words. Specifically, Rapido (Jason) stopped posting. Jason was last on this site 5 months ago (December 19th). It has been over 2 months for Bill, and he last posted in December. John Sheridan (chairmanmeow) last logged in over 2 months ago. As for the why, consider what happened on this site in December. More generally, even the Athearn guy has posted on here that they don't check the forums and other places regularly - they are busy doing their jobs. Thus posting on a public forum and assuming the manufacturer sees it is false. If you want a manufacturer to know your opinion, the only way is to send it to them directly.
I suggest you not assume, because there haven't been recent posts from the Rapido crew, that they aren't on the forum.
I did not assume, I just couldn't remember at the time whether it was one of the Q&A's or another source where Jason covered it and given the hours of material wasn't willing to go and search.
However I remembered this evening where, and so here it is.
Episode 146 of A Modeler's Life interviewed Jason, and the topic came up.
12:30 and Lionel brings up the topic about online complaints, and Jason makes it clear constructive criticism is always good.
then at:
16:50 "one forum where I told my team we are not participating on it online anymore we are not posting any messages they can talk about us that's fine but the negativity was getting to the point where people my team members didn't want to open their computer in the morning" ... "you look on forums where you want to hangout out as a model railroader not even as a manufacturer and your just being attacked"
So while he doesn't come out and name this forum, it is clear he means this forum and the lack of activity on the accounts demonstrates that.
(and, the states on the members link are when the member last posted - it is when they last logged in).
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Post by amtrakfl9 on May 23, 2020 20:06:45 GMT -8
Wow, I didn’t know there was any kind of issue like that here as I have not really been on this forum much until pretty recently. I didn’t mean to stir the pot with my post about Rapido quality, I was just adding to the existing discussion with my opinion about where they stand against the competition. I’m sure we’ve all had these types of conversations in real life with other modeler friends about various manufacturers and such.
Count me out of the drama!
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Post by csx3305 on May 24, 2020 0:33:26 GMT -8
As for why they left this forum, go read the dozens of pages of posts in the B36gate threads for an answer. It's pretty evident. At a certain point, the environment of a forum and its members becomes too toxic for a manufacturer to keep engaging with it. Some at Rapido might lurk occasionally, but good luck getting replies from any of them. The old Atlas Forum had a stigma of its own among model RR manufacturers and those involved in the hobby, that some members there spent no small amount of time (or posts) "earning" for everyone. Gee your honor, what took ya? For sake of clarity and non-bias, you should also note the grossly incorrect Lehigh Valley red on the Alco. You know, the one Rapido tried to defend with a heavily color-shifted photo? Whose ballast color and girder bridge color didn’t match the other photos of different units from the same run, posed on the exact same module?
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Post by csx3305 on May 24, 2020 0:54:48 GMT -8
And for the record, no exile past or present in regards to me, I still lurk occasionally, but my posting is greatly reduced and will continue to be because I don’t feel this forum is moderated with any manner remotely approaching consistency.
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Post by lvrr325 on May 24, 2020 2:42:29 GMT -8
I generally have a favorable opinion of the models, but the problem almost is that they're too nice, and as a result too expensive to grab impulse buyers given the pricing allows for only minimal discounts. Unless you want to just give them away as at least one Canadian retailer does; his pricing makes me wonder if he gets a better deal on them. They could fix that with a MAP, minimum advertised price, agreement.
The price point is also really too high for some of these mistakes to crop up. They have stepped up to fix some of them, others, that RS11 fan, they seem to have not responded to. I would guess they might fix it on a future run and then offer replacement parts at that time, but it would be nice to hear it. But that's a problem, when you make premium models for a premium price the crowd who buys these things is much less forgiving to mistakes.
So the bottom line for me is I will only get them if a customer orders one. I've had a pair of LV RDCs now going on 18 months with very little interest, although if they were even 30% cheaper I think they would have sold. That's just too long to sit on something I might make $20 profit on. I did sell a NYC one, and a pair of the LV FA2s, but they had to go on the internet. Despite doing around 15 shows a year in four large and several smaller markets they were just eye candy for people.
The RS11 also illustrates a case where they made a model that already has been done, the Atlas which can still be bought new for cheaper, and the Proto, which who knows if Walthers will ever run again. I think I have less tied up in my two than cost is on one of theirs - and one of them came (used) with DCC already in it. For that I'll put up with some detail issues.
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Post by Judge Doom on May 24, 2020 5:48:48 GMT -8
As for why they left this forum, go read the dozens of pages of posts in the B36gate threads for an answer. It's pretty evident. At a certain point, the environment of a forum and its members becomes too toxic for a manufacturer to keep engaging with it. Some at Rapido might lurk occasionally, but good luck getting replies from any of them. The old Atlas Forum had a stigma of its own among model RR manufacturers and those involved in the hobby, that some members there spent no small amount of time (or posts) "earning" for everyone. Gee your honor, what took ya? For sake of clarity and non-bias, you should also note the grossly incorrect Lehigh Valley red on the Alco. You know, the one Rapido tried to defend with a heavily color-shifted photo? Whose ballast color and girder bridge color didn’t match the other photos of different units from the same run, posed on the exact same module? As always, thank you CSX3305 for your valued contributions to this thread and the B36 one, and the RS11 one. I'm sure they had nothing to do with driving Rapido off this forum. And I'm sure everyone can pull up the LV Redgate or the SP&S FA2-gate threads and read them in their entirety too. Gee, you're losing your touch, you forgot to remind us about the SP RS11 UDE light controversy! IMHO, low blows at the moderators is a pretty petty reason to not like this forum. Jim and Co. try to do a pretty fair job keeping things running on the level IMHO, but with some of the people they have to deal with, they've got their work cut out for them. Got anything else to point out before you go back into the burrow you crawled out from? More personal attacks because you don't like my username perhaps? Or maybe another reminder that the steps on the Rapido CSXT B36 are still wrong (yes, they are! Someone alert the media!).
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Post by Judge Doom on May 24, 2020 6:01:22 GMT -8
The RS11 also illustrates a case where they made a model that already has been done, the Atlas which can still be bought new for cheaper, and the Proto, which who knows if Walthers will ever run again. I think I have less tied up in my two than cost is on one of theirs - and one of them came (used) with DCC already in it. For that I'll put up with some detail issues. The Proto 1000 RS11 hasn't been rerun since at least before the Walthers takeover of Life-Like (mid-2000's?). Ditto for reruns of the RS10-18 that was done in conjunction with Hobbycraft Canada (now True Line Trains). Rumour from some members on another forum was some of the tooling for the RS10-18 was lost in the Walthers takeover shuffle, so it wouldn't surprise me if the P1K RS11 had also vanished into the mysterious lost tooling void. True Line also had some delays in re-releasing the C-liners under their own name because they had to redo some of the C-liner tooling that had gone missing (they had mentioned years ago the rear 3-axle truck specifically). It's probably no big loss either: with all the retoolings Walthers had done to old LL models in recent years (think the old Proto E7A and E8A models), they would almost certainly have to retool the RS11 from scratch for a re-release today. A well-detailed** but dimensionally-flawed RS11 might have sold well when they came out around 2003-2004 at $99 per unit DC, but with today's prices, detail levels and buyer expectations they'd be a hard sell "as-is". Years ago, some modelers in the know tried to correct the RS11 problems themselves on their own models, but finally came to the conclusion that everything was so out of wack due to the frame being too high and hoods being too short that nothing was really re-usable and it was a lost cause to try. If I had to guess, part of the appeal of Rapido doing their own RS11 (even with the others out on the market for years) was to do more road-specific detailing, like the units with PRR trainphone antennas, the full SP lighting packages, and the special N&W carbody filter variations. Things that both LL and Atlas hadn't done, or weren't likely to do, and that the serious modelers of those specific roads want. The price-conscious buyers at train shows that just want more trains will go for the generic Atlas or Proto RS11's, while the hardcore PRR and SP modelers that companies like Rapido, Athearn (Genesis), ScaleTrains (Rivet Counter) often to target will spend extra to get the models with the road-specific features they want when they first hit the shelves at whatever price. One can point to the same thing with Rapido's upcoming SW1200 (that's already been done quite nicely by LL and later Walthers for years now) with variations such as the full SP-style switcher lights. As hideous as they are, you've got to have them if you're a serious SP modeler, and the DIY route can be a PITA. ** The LL Proto 1000 RS11 wasn't really a Proto 1000 model; it was more of a Proto 2000 and had all the extra detailing such as separate grabs, MU lines, hood door latches, etc that the Proto 1000 releases at the time didn't have (think re-fried LL toy train line freight cars with metal wheels and body-mounted couplers, new-tooling F3A's with cast-on parts, and RS2's without any of the grab irons or pilot details). It's a bit of a mystery why it wasn't in the 2000 line, but the Canadian-release RS10-18 models came out as "Proto 1000 Deluxe" models.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on May 24, 2020 6:34:25 GMT -8
You know after you list the various very recent releases from Rapido and the errors that were discussed ad nauseam maybe Rapido has bit off more than they can chew? An example of this is they announce a new model - say the SW1200 with 17 different road names and some of those have different paint schemes that they are trying to produce too many variations and not able to dedicate the proper time to each one? What other manufacturer releases 17 different road names of a locomotive at once? I can't think of any. Usually it's maybe 3 to 5 different road names. That's a lot of research and capital put in to a single run. I guess it's been done with freight cars, but freight cars generally are not as varied or tailored as a locomotive can be. I have one of the SW1200s on order for my road and I've reached out to them to provide images and feedback to ensure accuracy. I only own one of their freight cars and this will be the first locomotive for me of theirs and I want it to be a success and not fail. Gee your honor, what took ya? For sake of clarity and non-bias, you should also note the grossly incorrect Lehigh Valley red on the Alco. You know, the one Rapido tried to defend with a heavily color-shifted photo? Whose ballast color and girder bridge color didn’t match the other photos of different units from the same run, posed on the exact same module? As always, thank you CSX3305 for your valued contributions to this thread and the B36 one, and the RS11 one. I'm sure they had nothing to do with driving Rapido off this forum. And I'm sure everyone can pull up the LV Redgate or the SP&S FA2-gate threads and read them in their entirety too. Gee, you're losing your touch, you forgot to remind us about the SP RS11 UDE light controversy! IMHO, low blows at the moderators is a pretty petty reason to not like this forum. Jim and Co. try to do a pretty fair job keeping things running on the level IMHO, but with some of the people they have to deal with, they've got their work cut out for them. Got anything else to point out before you go back into the burrow you crawled out from? More personal attacks because you don't like my username perhaps? Or maybe another reminder that the steps on the Rapido CSXT B36 are still wrong (yes, they are! Someone alert the media!).
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 24, 2020 8:04:47 GMT -8
You know after you list the various very recent releases from Rapido and the errors that were discussed ad nauseam maybe Rapido has bit off more than they can chew? An example of this is they announce a new model - say the SW1200 with 17 different road names and some of those have different paint schemes that they are trying to produce too many variations and not able to dedicate the proper time to each one? I believe Rapido has said much the same. So, for some reason, they pushed the go button when they had not done adequate research. Or implemented same. "Speed over accuracy" is the term I've heard. I do know that Rapido HAD all the material to make a proper SP&S/BN. For some reason, they chose not to. I would assume because it would have cost more. Perhaps there's a different reason. But Rapido won't post here, so I guess we won't be hearing from the horse's mouth. While Rapido did not implement the material I sent them, I am told by others that they DID use their advice for other road names. So it sounds like it'll be what's called a crap-shoot for your particular loco. On the plus side for your wishes, Rapido's feelings seem to have been stung badly by some comments on this forum, so perhaps they will reconsider their approach to production. We, on this forum, will never know. Apparently. Ed
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Post by Judge Doom on May 24, 2020 8:25:05 GMT -8
You know after you list the various very recent releases from Rapido and the errors that were discussed ad nauseam maybe Rapido has bit off more than they can chew? An example of this is they announce a new model - say the SW1200 with 17 different road names and some of those have different paint schemes that they are trying to produce too many variations and not able to dedicate the proper time to each one? What other manufacturer releases 17 different road names of a locomotive at once? I can't think of any. Usually it's maybe 3 to 5 different road names. That's a lot of research and capital put in to a single run. I guess it's been done with freight cars, but freight cars generally are not as varied or tailored as a locomotive can be. I have one of the SW1200s on order for my road and I've reached out to them to provide images and feedback to ensure accuracy. I only own one of their freight cars and this will be the first locomotive for me of theirs and I want it to be a success and not fail. [/quote] I'd tend to agree. With a lot of variations being done at once, it'd be easy for things to slip through the cracks or get overlooked. Throw in the possibility that the person(s) managing the project may not be experts or knowledgeable in all the railways being done, and what seems like an elementary detail to a modeler of Road X might be totally missed. Another thing to consider is some problems may be brought to their attention after everything's been sent to the factory for production, or during production, so it might or might not be possible to implement corrections depending on how far along a project is. Or another run might be needed if the problem was bad enough...like that mention in one of their newsletters years ago of a run of Illinois Central baggage cars that slipped through the factory as "Central Illinois" and had to have their shells redone. One thing to note about Rapido's tendency to "bare-all" and give modelers a behind-the-scenes look into their factories and manufacturing process is we also get to see some of their errors and rework, something you wouldn't see highlighted by a Walthers or Athearn the way Rapido does. Maybe Rapido needs to be more secretive about what goes on behind the scenes, as mentioning every so often a factory has to redo shells or that they used the wrong numbers might contribute to the overall impression that Rapido has a much poorer level of QC than most, when those same kinds of errors happening at Walthers or Athearn get addressed behind the curtain without any mention in newsletters or videos at all.
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Post by csx3305 on May 24, 2020 8:38:45 GMT -8
Gee your honor, what took ya? For sake of clarity and non-bias, you should also note the grossly incorrect Lehigh Valley red on the Alco. You know, the one Rapido tried to defend with a heavily color-shifted photo? Whose ballast color and girder bridge color didn’t match the other photos of different units from the same run, posed on the exact same module? As always, thank you CSX3305 for your valued contributions to this thread and the B36 one, and the RS11 one. I'm sure they had nothing to do with driving Rapido off this forum. And I'm sure everyone can pull up the LV Redgate or the SP&S FA2-gate threads and read them in their entirety too. Gee, you're losing your touch, you forgot to remind us about the SP RS11 UDE light controversy! IMHO, low blows at the moderators is a pretty petty reason to not like this forum. Jim and Co. try to do a pretty fair job keeping things running on the level IMHO, but with some of the people they have to deal with, they've got their work cut out for them. Much obliged on the counterpoint, cant be letting you fanboys whitewash the narrative to support your bias. Have a lovely afternoon! :-)
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 24, 2020 9:27:07 GMT -8
A SNARKFEST!
Ed
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Post by Christian on May 24, 2020 10:11:08 GMT -8
Ah gee. You edited out the whiney stuff. You could just grow a pair and bring up your issues with Donnell. (BTW, I don't have a basement and I do model gas lights.)
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Post by gevohogger on May 24, 2020 10:26:40 GMT -8
You know after you list the various very recent releases from Rapido and the errors that were discussed ad nauseam maybe Rapido has bit off more than they can chew? An example of this is they announce a new model - say the SW1200 with 17 different road names and some of those have different paint schemes that they are trying to produce too many variations and not able to dedicate the proper time to each one? What other manufacturer releases 17 different road names of a locomotive at once? I can't think of any. Usually it's maybe 3 to 5 different road names. That's a lot of research and capital put in to a single run. I guess it's been done with freight cars, but freight cars generally are not as varied or tailored as a locomotive can be. I have one of the SW1200s on order for my road and I've reached out to them to provide images and feedback to ensure accuracy. I only own one of their freight cars and this will be the first locomotive for me of theirs and I want it to be a success and not fail. Or perhaps not build up every model as the be-all and end-all for that particular locomotive (or car, whatever) in the accuracy department. "It's 3-D scanned from a real CSX B36-7" is the foible that came back to bite them, when the finished models showed up and they ain't CSX at all. Wasn't there a video where the Rapido crew visited a line of dead ex-CSX B36s? I spent half the morning looking for it and now I can't find it, so maybe it wasn't theirs after all. But its just like Arrowhead and the "best box ever".... The finished product better be pretty much perfect or they're just furthering another internet meme.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 24, 2020 10:33:30 GMT -8
I don't much care whether, during development, I see behind the curtain or not.
What I care about is product that I pre-ordered being shipped that STILL has problems.
I do agree that braggin' on how you're doing some heavy duty research had better be followed with heavy duty results.
Ed
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Post by 12bridge on May 24, 2020 15:06:56 GMT -8
My oh my has the tide turned on this one.
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Post by mdvle on May 24, 2020 16:30:57 GMT -8
People need to realize that they can be critical without being jerks. I'm convinced that one individual's over the top, childish temper tantrum pertaining to a certain model is the reason they don't post any more. Maybe. It is wise, and sometimes difficult, for people in business to not make decisions based on emotion. I believe that person is in exile, and in no position to be irritating. Here. And it would be easy for Rapido to find that out. So I think I will tentatively disagree that that is the reason, and assume Rapido's presence or lack thereof is based on rationality. First, I am sorry that you spent the time and effort to provide correct information and for whatever reason Rapido did not use such information. It cannot be a good feeling to have a model that you presumably wanted, to go through that effort, and then the model isn't what you hoped for.
But, regarding this forum and the behavior of some. It is not up to Rapido (or anyone else driven away by such behavior) to monitor this forum to see if the offenders leave. It is up to the moderators of this forum, if they don't want manufacturers like Rapido or ordinary users who get victimized to leave, to deal with the issues when it happens. By allowing the toxic behavior to continue, the moderators are condoning such behavior, and thus clearly telling Rapido and others that they are not welcome on this forum.
And even if the offender(s) leave, the point still remains that such behavior is tolerated and thus the risk is high that a repeat occurrence will happen.
Case in point - yesterday thebessemerkid asked me if I worked for Rapido. That in itself was fine, but when I replied that no I don't work for Rapido or have any connection with them they called me a liar. And the moderators have done nothing about a member of this forum calling another member a liar.
And worse, it is an indirect attack on Rapido, because the insinuation is that Rapido is secretly posting on this forum and then denying it. It is this sort of toxic behavior that drives people away, and it is apparent by a lack of action that the moderators are fully supportive of such behavior.
So I will agree with your final point - that Rapido's lack of presence is based on rationality - the reality that the toxic behavior on this forum will continue.
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Post by mdvle on May 24, 2020 16:33:52 GMT -8
Wow, I didn’t know there was any kind of issue like that here as I have not really been on this forum much until pretty recently. I didn’t mean to stir the pot with my post about Rapido quality, I was just adding to the existing discussion with my opinion about where they stand against the competition. I’m sure we’ve all had these types of conversations in real life with other modeler friends about various manufacturers and such.
To be clear, at least in my opinion, there was nothing wrong with your posting - which is of course why I suggested also sending it to Rapido.
As Jason said in that podcast, constructive criticism and differing opinions are fine.
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Post by mdvle on May 24, 2020 16:39:41 GMT -8
You know after you list the various very recent releases from Rapido and the errors that were discussed ad nauseam maybe Rapido has bit off more than they can chew? An example of this is they announce a new model - say the SW1200 with 17 different road names and some of those have different paint schemes that they are trying to produce too many variations and not able to dedicate the proper time to each one? What other manufacturer releases 17 different road names of a locomotive at once? I can't think of any. Usually it's maybe 3 to 5 different road names. That's a lot of research and capital put in to a single run. I guess it's been done with freight cars, but freight cars generally are not as varied or tailored as a locomotive can be. I have one of the SW1200s on order for my road and I've reached out to them to provide images and feedback to ensure accuracy. I only own one of their freight cars and this will be the first locomotive for me of theirs and I want it to be a success and not fail. I can't recall offhand whether it is the podcast interviews, the Q&A, or one of their newsletters (or combinations of) but Rapido have admitted that they took on too many different SW1200's at once, and they have thus learned from it.
On the other hand, if they only announce 3 to 5 roadnames they get complaints from all the people whose roadname isn't being done.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 24, 2020 17:11:50 GMT -8
Maybe. It is wise, and sometimes difficult, for people in business to not make decisions based on emotion. I believe that person is in exile, and in no position to be irritating. Here. And it would be easy for Rapido to find that out. So I think I will tentatively disagree that that is the reason, and assume Rapido's presence or lack thereof is based on rationality. First, I am sorry that you spent the time and effort to provide correct information and for whatever reason Rapido did not use such information. It cannot be a good feeling to have a model that you presumably wanted, to go through that effort, and then the model isn't what you hoped for. But, regarding this forum and the behavior of some. It is not up to Rapido (or anyone else driven away by such behavior) to monitor this forum to see if the offenders leave. It is up to the moderators of this forum, if they don't want manufacturers like Rapido or ordinary users who get victimized to leave, to deal with the issues when it happens. By allowing the toxic behavior to continue, the moderators are condoning such behavior, and thus clearly telling Rapido and others that they are not welcome on this forum. And even if the offender(s) leave, the point still remains that such behavior is tolerated and thus the risk is high that a repeat occurrence will happen. Case in point - yesterday thebessemerkid asked me if I worked for Rapido. That in itself was fine, but when I replied that no I don't work for Rapido or have any connection with them they called me a liar. And the moderators have done nothing about a member of this forum calling another member a liar. And worse, it is an indirect attack on Rapido, because the insinuation is that Rapido is secretly posting on this forum and then denying it. It is this sort of toxic behavior that drives people away, and it is apparent by a lack of action that the moderators are fully supportive of such behavior. So I will agree with your final point - that Rapido's lack of presence is based on rationality - the reality that the toxic behavior on this forum will continue.
If you want to stop loutish behavior on this forum, you should call it out immediately, when it happens. As you just did. I will try to do the same. I am not interested in having a censor make sure that no one offends a manufacturer, which is just what you are calling for. And I am not interested in avoiding negative criticism because it might hurt the manufacturer's feelings, and make them sad. Too bad! You are correct that I am upset with Rapido for making a bad model when I provided them with all they needed to make a good one. I note that you chose your words in that sentence in a patronizing way, as if you are talking to a 5 year old. And I don't like it. Ed
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Post by drsvelte on May 24, 2020 17:52:06 GMT -8
Well, if anyone is still interested in comparisons between the various Alco RS-11 models, here are a few more photographs of trucks….
Rapido, Proto 1000
Proto 1000
Rapido
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Post by mdvle on May 24, 2020 17:56:26 GMT -8
First, I am sorry that you spent the time and effort to provide correct information and for whatever reason Rapido did not use such information. It cannot be a good feeling to have a model that you presumably wanted, to go through that effort, and then the model isn't what you hoped for. But, regarding this forum and the behavior of some. It is not up to Rapido (or anyone else driven away by such behavior) to monitor this forum to see if the offenders leave. It is up to the moderators of this forum, if they don't want manufacturers like Rapido or ordinary users who get victimized to leave, to deal with the issues when it happens. By allowing the toxic behavior to continue, the moderators are condoning such behavior, and thus clearly telling Rapido and others that they are not welcome on this forum. And even if the offender(s) leave, the point still remains that such behavior is tolerated and thus the risk is high that a repeat occurrence will happen. Case in point - yesterday thebessemerkid asked me if I worked for Rapido. That in itself was fine, but when I replied that no I don't work for Rapido or have any connection with them they called me a liar. And the moderators have done nothing about a member of this forum calling another member a liar. And worse, it is an indirect attack on Rapido, because the insinuation is that Rapido is secretly posting on this forum and then denying it. It is this sort of toxic behavior that drives people away, and it is apparent by a lack of action that the moderators are fully supportive of such behavior. So I will agree with your final point - that Rapido's lack of presence is based on rationality - the reality that the toxic behavior on this forum will continue.
If you want to stop loutish behavior on this forum, you should call it out immediately, when it happens. As you just did. I will try to do the same. I am not interested in having a censor make sure that no one offends a manufacturer, which is just what you are calling for. And I am not interested in avoiding negative criticism because it might hurt the manufacturer's feelings, and make them sad. Too bad! You are correct that I am upset with Rapido for making a bad model when I provided them with all they needed to make a good one. I note that you chose your words in that sentence in a patronizing way, as if you are talking to a 5 year old. And I don't like it.
And I'm tired of you twisting my words to suit your agenda.
I said the moderators should be taking care of toxic behavior, not that they should prevent someone from being offended.
And I have made clear that criticism is not bad, and thus is not something to be avoided despite your claim.
Finally, I try being nice by pointing out that I agree that you have reason to be upset with Rapido and the FA models, and you call me patronizing.
And then people wonder why this forum has such a bad reputation.
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