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Post by edwardsutorik on May 24, 2020 19:53:18 GMT -8
Well, if anyone is still interested in comparisons between the various Alco RS-11 models, here are a few more photographs of trucks….
I know I am. Except for the hi-hat fan, I'm not seeing any place that the Rapido doesn't excel the P1K. Oh, yeah. The grill/screens probably need some work. Looks like maybe, when/if they do the BN/NP ones, these might be winners. I could use some. The question then is, will Rapido fix these things? And inform its customers (though not on THIS forum, of course) that they have done so? I hope the answer to both questions is yes. Ed
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Post by markfj on May 25, 2020 4:26:10 GMT -8
Thanks for posting the comparison photos Drsvelte; very interesting. In the photo showing the tops of the Rapido, Proto, and Atlas models, I would say that it is the Proto model that has the cab in the wrong position – too close to the short hood end – and that the Atlas and Rapido appear to be in the same position. It’s really hard to tell though.
Also, I agree with the comment made earlier that Rapido’s photo etched grills aren’t that see-thru. Looks like Atlas and Proto did a better job on that detail.
Trucks: well it looks like Rapido is the only one to get the correct contour on the upper cross beam of the truck. The others are straight whereas Rapido’s has the slight bulge near the center.
So here we are again with a collection of models that have good and bad points. None are perfect, but I think Rapido’s is the best overall. I would be interest to know if the radiator detail can be removed “easily” from the shell and milled down a bit to get the height correct.
Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA
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Post by gevohogger on May 25, 2020 5:26:37 GMT -8
Case in point - yesterday thebessemerkid asked me if I worked for Rapido. That in itself was fine, but when I replied that no I don't work for Rapido or have any connection with them they called me a liar. And the moderators have done nothing about a member of this forum calling another member a liar.
I don't want to speak on behalf of Bessemerkid, but I think most of the confusion stems from the timing of Rapido's people all leaving the forum, and then right away you've stepped up to the plate posting links to their announcements, newsletters and videos. I think there's more than a few people who have wondered the same thing. It actually came to a surprise when I clicked your profile and saw threads about other manufacturers too. Athearn, Peco, etc...
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 25, 2020 6:16:45 GMT -8
I would be interest to know if the radiator detail can be removed “easily” from the shell and milled down a bit to get the height correct. Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA Here is drsvelte's photo of the fan housing: The screen looks like it is glued in from the top, so it may be removable with a sharp blade. I can't tell if there's a fan down inside or how it's held in. Once these are removed, one could file or mill the top to a proper height, in situ. The housing is a separate piece, as evidenced by the large gap to its right. My guess is that it's glued in from the bottom, and that it might be difficult to remove. Touch-up paint will be essential for the top of the modified housing. It can also be used should one fill the mentioned gap. Those with black locomotives will be the lucky ones, here. Since it's a separate piece, it will be easy for Rapido to fix the problem in upcoming runs, either by cutting a new mold for the housing or installing it with an added spacer, to lower it in the shell. They might make it a tad larger in diameter, while they're at it. I believe with proper engineering, the assembly could be produced with no visible gap at all. That's also a good photo of the other noted problem with the model: the screen covering the opening on the right. Ed
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Post by rrpolice on May 25, 2020 10:34:59 GMT -8
@mdvle Please be part of the solution and kindly use the report feature if you see a post with offensive or rule breaking content. Click on the gear on the upper-right side and select "report". Thanks.
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Post by lvrr325 on May 25, 2020 13:53:29 GMT -8
This back and forth kind of proves my point, guys would put up with flaws in a $100 model but a $325 (with sound) model is going to get nitpicked pretty hard.
If Atlas was paying attention I'd suggest they retool the RS11 shell so they can do non-dynamic and other grille position variants with it. That, and finding some way to put the RS11 long hood on the RS32 chassis/cab/nose and I'd never need to buy anyone else's models.
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Post by brammy on May 25, 2020 14:19:54 GMT -8
This back and forth kind of proves my point, guys would put up with flaws in a $100 model but a $325 (with sound) model is going to get nitpicked pretty hard. Other than that the $325 is the MSRP, and what I imagine you'd pay if you pre-ordered through Rapido (I don't really follow their pre-order pricing, so I am guessing since they list the units on their site for $349), they aren't that much more expensive that at least the Athearn Genesis 2 line. The MSRP on the new SD70s from Athearn is $299. So, the MSRP for the Rapido is $50 more than the Athearn. Modeltrainstuff has the DCC/Sound RS11 for $239. Overall, I am happy with the Rapido units I have seen. A friend has a few of the B36s, and I am thinking of getting the CSX one. I do think they have issues with color, though. Their Erie passenger cars had a more of a minty green than Erie green. I wasn't overly happy with the colors on the EL FAs either. I don't know how accurate the Athearn stuff is, for close to the same price point. I think the horns on my Athearn EL SD45 are wrong, and the horns on my old Atlas EL C425 are wrong also. Everyone has their own levels of acceptable errors. A good friend of mine is very shall we say, particular about his models, and he does call Rapido to task about errors. But, he buys the units because they are overall good units, and he knows that only people like him will notice the errors. Constructive criticism is always good, and I do think Rapido doesn't mind being told, "Hey, those units for this road name had this difference." How the message is delivered matters a lot, though.
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Post by Judge Doom on May 25, 2020 21:03:40 GMT -8
This back and forth kind of proves my point, guys would put up with flaws in a $100 model but a $325 (with sound) model is going to get nitpicked pretty hard. If Atlas was paying attention I'd suggest they retool the RS11 shell so they can do non-dynamic and other grille position variants with it. That, and finding some way to put the RS11 long hood on the RS32 chassis/cab/nose and I'd never need to buy anyone else's models. Well, right now the market is flooded with Rapido RS11's, so I doubt Atlas would drop the money into any RS11 retooling. And their prices for every release and rerun have been creeping up too, so a retooled Atlas RS11 at 2020 prices probably won't be a hot train show seller. Their last run was in February 2018 at $159 DC/$269 DCC, I'd expect a rerun today, plus improved and new components, would be at least $20-30 higher at $189/$299 MSRP. Not too far off from the Rapido's $225/$335 MSRP, but again, Atlas probably wouldn't bother given Rapido's offerings on the shelves (with potentially more to come in the future).
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Post by el3672 on May 25, 2020 22:16:29 GMT -8
At this point, this is a dead thread for me, the P1K RS-11 wins. My long a go P1K LV & PC detailed, custom painted & weathered RS-11's keep my wallet safe. Snooze for now, been a while if anything that might appeal to my Rapido interests, I have to agree with Brammy that the Erie colors are a bit off and to minty green.
Good Night and Stay Safe.
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Post by stevewagner on May 26, 2020 5:23:34 GMT -8
The paint and lettering on the Life-Like Proto 1000 RS-11's decorated in the Delaware & Hudson's lightning stripe livery was very, very good. But wasn't there an issue with the height of either the hoods or the cab or both on those models?
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Post by unittrain on May 26, 2020 5:55:46 GMT -8
I bought a Conrail B36-7 but sold it as I decided to keep my era range 1968 to 1978. I have flexi flos pre-ordered hopefully those are good. But yeah at $325 a model needs to be built on solid research. Dimensionally speaking anything below 1/32" off to me is not too important but assembly issues and incorrect details is kinda ridiculous to have at a prices over $250.
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Post by brammy on May 26, 2020 6:15:22 GMT -8
I bought a Conrail B36-7 but sold it as I decided to keep my era range 1968 to 1978. I have flexi flos pre-ordered hopefully those are good. But yeah at $325 a model needs to be built on solid research. Dimensionally speaking anything below 1/32" off to me is not too important but assembly issues and incorrect details is kinda ridiculous to have at a prices over $250. I thought about getting a CSX B36, but decided this morning against it. I have one CSX SD40 I use as pool power with my UP engines. I thought of getting a B36 to run with the SD40, but that gets too far into the "Ok, now I model three railroads" territory. Modeling the UP and EL gives me no shortage of stuff to buy.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 26, 2020 6:18:10 GMT -8
The paint and lettering on the Life-Like Proto 1000 RS-11's decorated in the Delaware & Hudson's lightning stripe livery was very, very good. But wasn't there an issue with the height of either the hoods or the cab or both on those models? It had something to do with the height of things off of the walkway. It's been a LONG time since I delved into it. Maybe the cab or the cab windows heights were off? My recollection is that the problem threw the black/green separation line off, on a BN paint scheme. On a PC, maybe it's not a problem. Or N&W, for that matter. Ed
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Post by drsvelte on May 26, 2020 6:35:40 GMT -8
The paint and lettering on the Life-Like Proto 1000 RS-11's decorated in the Delaware & Hudson's lightning stripe livery was very, very good. But wasn't there an issue with the height of either the hoods or the cab or both on those models? Yes, the hoods are apparently too low by about 6 scale inches. According to notes I recorded some time ago "an RS-11 measures 8' 10 1/2" from the walkway surface to the top of the hood at center. The Protos are about 8' 5" in this dimension." I'm not sure of the attribution of this statement; might have been on the old Atlas forum or TO. To me, the differences in overall height between the Proto, Atlas, and Rapido are not noticeable when they are all placed next to one another. What does seem apparent is that the frame of the Proto sits a bit higher on the bolsters. You can see this in the photo I posted above comparing the Proto with the Rapido -- the fuel tank sits higher on the Proto. One can also take issue with the exhaust stack on the Proto which looks sort of like a truncated RS-3 stack. But I have photos of PRR RS-11s with modified stacks which are taller than the "as delivered" versions. A number of PRR RS-11s also sported spark arrestors.
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Post by Judge Doom on May 26, 2020 11:17:57 GMT -8
The paint and lettering on the Life-Like Proto 1000 RS-11's decorated in the Delaware & Hudson's lightning stripe livery was very, very good. But wasn't there an issue with the height of either the hoods or the cab or both on those models? On the Proto 1000 RS10-11-18 models, the hoods ares too short height-wise, and the walkways sit too high. There's not really much you can do to fix either of those, unless you like frame milling and heightening the hoods including all the hood doors on the shell (among other things).
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Post by drsvelte on May 26, 2020 13:19:17 GMT -8
I think this needs to be said about Rapido: the overall feel of their locomotives needs some improvement given their price. All of my Rapido stuff is very light, feels "plasticky", and generally is not the best pulling or smoothest running, although still better than many other companies. The FL9s specifically are also very slow with a maximum scale speed around 45 mph, and the F40s are not great with their max speed being around 65-70. ScaleTrains and recent Athearn Genesis are currently the best out there in my opinion, as their fit and finish match the performance and detailing. They also do road number specific stuff which Rapido does not seem to want to do.
Rapido became the #1 quality manufacturer about 10 years ago but never really advanced from there, and has been overtaken. They are a very personable and likable company, and I am still a fan, but I really would like to see them get back to the front of the pack if they are going to keep MSRP well above $300. The B36-7s were definitely a step in the right direction but still too plasticky and toylike in their finish. Am I crazy or does anyone else agree? I would only take issue with what you say with repect to what Rapido did with their Norfolk & Western RS-11s. Rapido added four road specific details which were unique to the N&S: 1. Three pane cab widows; 2. Louvered carbody air filter covers on the "as modified" model; 3. Top of hood sand filler hatches (and steps) instead of hatches in the notches; 4. A frame mounted toolbox. In particular, the cab windows and the boxy filter covers scream Norfolk & Western. I received Toy Train Heaven's Cloud 9 Sale flyer today advertising a non-sound Rapido N&W RS-11 (in blue) for $105.00. I've never seen them advertised that low. 😲
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 26, 2020 13:31:45 GMT -8
"road number specific" is not the same as "road specific". Note the road number specific detailing for the BN and MRL models, below: www.athearn.com/newsletter/052617/02_GEN_GP7-9_052617.pdfThe Santa Fe models are road specific. That is, all of the offered models are the same, except for numbering. This, of course, is most likely because they're as-delivered, as opposed to the "customized" BN and MRL versions. Ed
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Post by lvrr325 on May 26, 2020 19:49:58 GMT -8
You're forgetting Atlas has a better discount on theirs. The Rapido RDC one Canada seller had for $169 plus shipping (DC), the last Atlas DC I sold was around $130. Most Rapido was closer to $200 for DC.
If Atlas wanted to retool the hood and swap some things around they could offer a run of low-hood and make them dynamic or non-dynamic or whatever hood grille configuration was right I'd bet they'd sell a ton. But given they've used their RS36 to fudge a low-hood RS11 already I don't see that one happening.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 26, 2020 20:00:44 GMT -8
Atlas is plain not forward thinking. So they're not going to do anything with their RS-11, except maybe make some more.
They DO make some nice things. The 50' double door boxes in SP come to mind.
I think the last WOW think they did was that useless little Alco switcher. Yeah, it was really great if you needed one; but it was no gotta-have SD40-2. Or even an SD24B.
Ed
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Post by markfj on May 27, 2020 4:27:34 GMT -8
I received Toy Train Heaven's Cloud 9 Sale flyer today advertising a non-sound Rapido N&W RS-11 (in blue) for $105.00. I've never seen them advertised that low. 😲 Yeah, I saw that too and almost jumped on it, but a cooler head prevailed. I want a PC unit and think I’ll wait for the prices on those to fall next. There are just so many listed on eBay that I can’t imagine sellers “not” lowering the price to move the item (or relist with a “best offer” option). I could be wrong, but I'm still going to wait. Thank, Mark J. Reading, PA
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Post by simulatortrain on May 27, 2020 5:29:32 GMT -8
Thanks for the heads up on that sale. I'd have jumped on the RS11, but I found some other goodies instead.
I'd almost expect those RS prices to fall too.
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Post by lvrr325 on May 27, 2020 23:22:33 GMT -8
Somebody dumped a Rapido sound LV Tuscan RS11 and a sound FA2 on eBay sold as "lights work, motor is bad" and each got bid to a little over $100.
I'd bet you the $230 or so they sold for combined that all that was wrong was someone changed the DCC address from default. The seller didn't even change the description correctly for the one, it had details for the other engine listed.
That Toy Train Heaven RS11 is being sold at a big loss. I haven't seen TTH do one of those deals in a long time, I ended up with a second N&W C420 that way, they blew one out for $60 and I grabbed it. I had and sold a couple of sound U30Bs that way too. They used to throw in a goodie like that a couple times a month.
Unless someone is really having a fire sale you're not going to see any others this cheap, not brand new, used perhaps like the LV units I mentioned. Particularly when we can go to train shows again, is when that sort of thing tends to show up. I wanted a Proto RS27 in PC and I got one for I think $40 from an estate being dumped at a show and lo and behold it's a factory sound one, probably worth about $100. I flipped enough other stuff off the same table to be about even after buying that and three undec SW8s.
I just had a look at my own distributor's catalog and they show in stock plenty of Conrail, N&W, NH, PRR, PC and even undec NH version DC plus some sound units yet too. LV is the only one totally out of stock.
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Post by mdvle on Jun 26, 2020 15:32:06 GMT -8
Rapido June 26th - Jordan Smith, Bobby Allard, John Sheridan - recollections (hopefully no mistakes)
- B36-7 sideframes - should arrive next week - H16-44 - goes to tooling in July - Ski Train - landed at Vancouver today, should arrive at Rapido in a week or 2 depending on port congestion - NH County Cars - design done, waiting to go to tooling - Amtrak Turboliners - design should go to factory in August for them to produce CAD - B-100-40 Boxcars - tooling soon, hopefully sample by end of summer - B-100-40 - Rapido is looking for photos of the Southern Pacific / Union Pacific Shield Repaint in road numbers they don't already have - they have 4 but need 2 more for the 6-packs. Potential of a free model of the boxcar if one can help (and unsaid, but I assume if first to provide the roadnumber).
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Post by riogrande on Jun 26, 2020 16:19:20 GMT -8
I'm modeling pre-Ski train but I bet these will be gorgeous!
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ADK
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Rapido Q/A
Jun 26, 2020 18:08:49 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by ADK on Jun 26, 2020 18:08:49 GMT -8
Having ridden the ski train growing up (both summer and winter) I can't wait for the model to arrive. One of my friends had his M3 on the lead F40 till the train was sold, so I'll be making sure that's correct.
Do we just send an email to Rapido for the replacement side frames?
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Post by bdhicks on Jun 29, 2020 9:08:55 GMT -8
I just got an e-mail from Rapido that the side frames just arrived. Do we just send an email to Rapido for the replacement side frames? Fill out the contact form on their website. If you scroll down to "Incorrect Truck Configuration" on the B36-7 support page (https://rapidotrains.com/warranty/product-support/ho-scale-ge-b36-7-support) it tells you what information you'll need to tell them and provides a link. I had been forgetting and only remembered to do that last week.
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Post by llxlocomotives on Jun 29, 2020 15:17:13 GMT -8
This is in response to some earlier parts of this thread. My assessment on Rapido performance based on a sample of three, an RS-18, an FP40H & an FPA-4 is they are very competitive. At 12 volts DC, their scale speeds exceed the actual locomotive maximum speed based on published data. Their measured draw bar force is again competitive. Better than Genesis, about the same as most Atlas China versions.
A big piece on the cost is in the DCC module, which is also impacting the speed & draw bar force in a negative way. I hesitate to knock a model with a DCC module, because of the impact it has. That is particularly true for modules from ESU. The realistic action comes with a performance price. It is probably a reasonable compromise, because most people aren’t concerned with the maximum speed issue. The pulling short coming usually is solved by having multiple units. Which is realistic & good for the manufacturer.
I found the model RS-11 comparisons interesting. However, a comparison with an actual Locomotive would also be informative. Other than different, it is not clear which is the closest.
Unfortunately, the demand for more exact models is likely having a strong impact on the cost. If all parts are unique to the model, then they are all more expensive, and that shows in the bottom line. P2K used the same basic chassis for models of the GP7 up to at least the GP30. It is unlikely that would fly in today’s environment.
I have been surprised with the number of manufacturers that post on an individual forum. Having a periodic discussion on a Face book kind of platform makes more sense. The audience is likely larger & they only have to do it live once per cycle, the can take Q&A in conjunction & get a lot of the input that they get on a forum with more control.
These discussions are always interesting. I find it amazing how particular some can be about a paint color on a model of a 50 year old object. It is unlikely that photos from that era actually captured the colors sufficiently, unless they were professionally done. Even then the prints are still subject to change depending on how they were stored. It is not to say that a particular color is right or wrong, It is what is the basis of the quandary. Either can be flawed or correct, depending several factors, including your perspective.
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Post by mdvle on Jun 29, 2020 15:23:00 GMT -8
Unfortunately, the demand for more exact models is likely having a strong impact on the cost. If all parts are unique to the model, then they are all more expensive, and that shows in the bottom line. P2K used the same basic chassis for models of the GP7 up to at least the GP30. It is unlikely that would fly in today’s environment.
I don't know what Rapido does, but in the Athearn Q&A sessions they often reference the idea that a suggestion is likely because it re-uses an existing platform they have so it may still be happening.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 29, 2020 16:58:01 GMT -8
This is in response to some earlier parts of this thread. My assessment on Rapido performance based on a sample of three, an RS-18, an FP40H & an FPA-4 is they are very competitive. At 12 volts DC, their scale speeds exceed the actual locomotive maximum speed based on published data. Their measured draw bar force is again competitive. Better than Genesis, about the same as most Atlas China versions. A big piece on the cost is in the DCC module, which is also impacting the speed & draw bar force in a negative way. In what way do they do that? It seems "realistic action" would, by definition, not have a "performance price". Perhaps you could develop this theme a bit more. I, too, found the model RS-11 comparisons interesting. There were comparisons with the prototype in an earlier topic. It appears all the models have flaws. Thus there is, unfortunately, not a flawless one. Not even the newest one. One ideally studies these flaws and decides which is less bad. It appears some manufacturers prefer to control the narrative. And that is best done on their own turf, rather than here. Photo reproduction of color is unreliable. What IS reliable is comparing colors within a photo. Thus, if after studying photos of diesels of a certain railroad, you find that the colors on their locomotives don't vary, you can deduce that the colors on your models of those diesels should not either. With SP&S, for example, most of the manufacturers have pretty much standardized on the broadband colors. So when someone produces one far out of range, that fact is definitely not prototypical. Also, over the years, there have been people who have made great effort to get correct prototypical railroad colors. Coming to mind are SP&S, GN, NP, PRR. And, of course, if your favorite railroad uses black, that is a real convenience. Ed
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Jun 29, 2020 18:12:24 GMT -8
This is in response to some earlier parts of this thread. My assessment on Rapido performance based on a sample of three, an RS-18, an FP40H & an FPA-4 is they are very competitive. At 12 volts DC, their scale speeds exceed the actual locomotive maximum speed based on published data. Their measured draw bar force is again competitive. Better than Genesis, about the same as most Atlas China versions. I think I was referring to the FL9 specifically, which is very very slow (like 45 scale mph max). In my experience the F40s are able to hit a scale 79 mph with a train which is all I really need from a passenger diesel. The prototype was timetabled for 100 mph, but had the ability to exceed that by 5 or 10 before speed limits were as strictly enforced as they are today.
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