|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 13, 2020 8:25:16 GMT -8
So it looks like they had bought the building, as opposed to renting/leasing.
I assume the caboose is included, though not noted in the flyer.
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by santafe49 on Dec 13, 2020 18:07:57 GMT -8
Gee, instead of opening in a lower rent/lease area, let's open in a very high value location. Then when our low volume, focused clientele don't pay inflated prices for our product line, we can file bankruptcy. And lets spend a hundred thousand to have a full size caboose moved in to suck more money out of the business, when a cheap sign would do.
|
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 14, 2020 9:33:54 GMT -8
Taking a virtual tour of the neighborhood, I'm not seeing a lot of businesses I would equate to a "very high value location". Sure, there's a Grease Monkey. And even medical marijuana. But there's no Hermes. Not even a Victoria's Secret. Neither do I see a business selling "scent", which appears to be vital to such an area.
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by gevohogger on Dec 14, 2020 11:05:07 GMT -8
And even medical marijuana. Sure. It IS Colorado. |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 2, 2021 13:40:26 GMT -8
Caboose updated their facebook page finally on Dec 31
I wonder what Caboose Public Benefit Corporation will be doing? Oh, it says "cultivating the worldwide community of train enthusiasts in our shared passion for trains"
So maybe a train social group but no mention of plans to sell model trains. I don't do Facebook and that seems to be the platform/environment they are now operating in.
|
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 2, 2021 16:24:32 GMT -8
I surely wonder about "upgrading the retail location for safe operations in a post-COVID world." WHAT exactly do they think they have to do after COVID is gone?
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by sgoti on Jan 3, 2021 14:13:32 GMT -8
I surely wonder about "upgrading the retail location for safe operations in a post-COVID world." WHAT exactly do they think they have to do after COVID is gone? Ed Actually have product on the shelves, for starters. |
|
|
|
Post by Colin 't Hart on Jan 3, 2021 15:07:46 GMT -8
And a) ship products that people have put down money for, and b) pay your suppliers.
|
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 3, 2021 15:51:07 GMT -8
Yes, those could be the "tremendous challenges" they spoke of.
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by drsvelte on Jan 5, 2021 7:46:44 GMT -8
More news......
Source: businessden.com/2021/01/04/caboose-once-worlds-largest-model-train-shop-runs-out-of-steam-in-lakewood/"The reboot of the world’s largest model train shop has derailed.
Caboose, which earned that recognition from the Guinness Book of World Records in 2014, has given up its brick-and-mortar presence nearly four years after downsizing in a move from Denver to Lakewood.
Kevin Ruble, who bought the business in late 2016 and later converted it to an employee-owned company, said Caboose has moved out of the building it leased at 10800 W. Alameda Ave.
The business itself will continue operating, he said, although it hasn’t been decided what form that will take.
“We’re focused on getting that done,” Ruble said in late December of moving out. “After the first of the year we’re going to assess that next step. That likely means that we’ll continue online.”
Caboose, which was previously named Caboose Hobbies, has deep roots in Denver. The store opened downtown in 1938. It moved to the South Broadway corridor in the 1980s, where it had 18,600 square feet of floor space open to the public, according to Guinness.
Not many similar businesses can claim such a legacy, Ruble said.
“That’s as long as almost any business in the train enthusiast community has been around,” he said.
The business’ previous owner, Duane Miller, closed it in September 2016. Ruble arranged to buy it shortly after that. He needed a new location, and wanted a freestanding building where he could install a caboose out front. He opened in Lakewood in February 2017 in a notably smaller space — about 6,800 square feet.
“When we reopened we had 200 people standing outside the front door,” Ruble said.
But while it may have had a fan base, the business had deep challenges, according to Ruble.
“The previous business had failed,” he said. “They had lost a significant amount of money over the previous five years … We weren’t saving it as much as we were doing the best to resurrect it.”
[Huh?]
Ruble had previously run an actual railroad — Marquette Rail, operating 126 miles of track in Michigan. He founded the company in 2005 and sold it in 2012 for a reported $40 million, which he said was 40 times what had been originally invested in the company.
Ruble changed the name of the model train shop from Caboose Hobbies to Caboose after buying it “because of what I felt was a stigma, and particularly among professional railroaders.”
Those working on the rails often hide the fact that they’re fascinated by trains, he said.
They’d have to wear a disguise to go into a place that had the word ‘hobbies’ above it,” Ruble said.
But the model train business has been tougher for Ruble than the short-line railroad business.
Ruble said his assumptions about the business’ possibilities were based on the assumption that e-commerce could grow to 60 percent of sales. Instead, pre-pandemic, about 90 percent of sales were still made in-person in Lakewood.
Ruble said he invested $200,000 trying to set up an e-commerce system [$200K really?] that would work with Caboose’s abnormally-large inventory, which includes many items that are hard to source elsewhere. That effort essentially failed, he said.
“The $200,000 that was invested is a fraction of what I’ve invested total, and we’re at a point with capital where we can’t stick around six months to see what happens,” Ruble said, adding he is also selling his personal home.
The business’ staff levels have also been based off the e-commerce modeling that never came to fruition. Staff were furloughed in November.
Caboose’s retail store had been closed to the public since March 18. Ruble described the building as an old structure that “would require capital expenditures that would be significant” [responsibility of lessor?] in order to be COVID-compliant, particularly when airflow is suddenly a concern to the average customer.
The building’s owner has put it on the market. John Livaditis of Axio Commercial Real Estate has the listing.
Despite the fact that online sales have historically been lackluster, now is the natural time to leave the physical store behind, Ruble said. And, in a twist, systems offered by outside e-commerce providers have advanced to the point that the business can now use them.
Beyond focusing on online sales, Ruble said the future of Caboose could involve private-label products or doing some of its own manufacturing [really and he thought IT was expensive!] . But no decisions have been made.
“At the end of the month, I’ll take a breather of some period of time — it might be a week, it might be six months,” he said in late December.
Ruble said the overall goal is to “continue to cultivate that community of, as we say sometimes derisively ‘foamers’ — people who just foam at the mouth when they start talking about trains.”
Comments in red are mine
|
|
|
|
Post by gevohogger on Jan 5, 2021 8:00:54 GMT -8
Wow, talk about furthering the stereotype, calling his customers "foamers" and admitting the "Hobbies" in their name is undesirable.
Typically, when we see supervisory types at the hobby shop, we just pretend we don't see each other. What happens at the hobby shop, stays at the hobby shop!
|
|
|
|
Post by trainboyy on Jan 5, 2021 8:30:33 GMT -8
Ruble said the overall goal is to “continue to cultivate that community of, as we say sometimes derisively ‘foamers’ — people who just foam at the mouth when they start talking about trains.”
Yikes. And to think people are on their side still (if any are left). That 'foamers' comment might've broken the camels back, in addition to all the other things they've done. |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 5, 2021 8:41:03 GMT -8
Interesting read. He says 90% of the sales were made in-person, and online sales were lack-luster. That's polar opposite of what many of us would guess in todays world. I did look at the online store during Caboose's first year of operation and immediately noticed prices were MSRP, or nearly so. Add to that I didn't find items I needed.
I'd guess a couple things:
1) The in-person traffic was likely a lot of locals or even visitors to the Denver area came to see what Caboose Hobbies replacement was all about. There are a lot of folks with nostalgia so that was probably part of it as well.
2) The online sales were lackluster because the pricing was at/near MSRP and there are many online vendors offering lower prices or much better discounts. If you live somewhere else in the US and have to have stuff shipped to you, you will need to find enough stock at competitive prices to draw you away from a number of preferred vendor you have already been doing business with who have better pricing.
As the owner of Caboose discovered, running a hobby shop is a totally different beast than a short-line RR. The old saying "how do you make a small fortune in the model train hobby business? You start with a large fortune. If Mr. Ruble sold the shortline for 40 million, where did all that money go?
One thing the owner appears to claim a legacy going back to 1938, but the reality is his legacy only goes back to 2017 when Caboose opened. IMTO, the 1938 legacy only belongs to the former shop, Caboose Hobbies.
|
|
|
|
Post by gevohogger on Jan 5, 2021 8:58:41 GMT -8
Interesting read. He says 90% of the sales were made in-person, and online sales were lack-luster. That's polar opposite of what many of us would guess in todays world. I did look at the online store during Caboose's first year of operation and immediately noticed prices were MSRP, or nearly so. Add to that I didn't find items I needed. I'd guess a couple things: 1) The in-person traffic was likely a lot of locals or even visitors to the Denver area came to see what Caboose Hobbies replacement was all about. There are a lot of folks with nostalgia so that was probably part of it as well. Absolutely. Even the most casual of modeler would sometimes visit Caboose Hobbies if they were in Denver for other reasons. I've been in Denver twice in my life.... And both times I found time to make the drive to Caboose Hobbies (when they were on Broadway obviously).
MSRP pricing doesn't help.... Unless they had stuff no one else had. Maybe that was the case? A similar case exists with Desplaines Hobbies where they have full-boat retail pricing and a dreadfully outdated website, but they seem to do OK. Maybe they get a lot of walkup sales too? Been a long time since I was in Chicago.
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 5, 2021 9:22:39 GMT -8
As it happens, I haven't been to/through Denver since about 1985, and hadn't heard of Caboose Hobbies yet. Around 1989 was getting back into HO and was hunting for a brass Palace Car Company D&RGW combine and I called Caboose Hobbies (with it's large brass selection) had it. Photo below - Mark Hills did an great job on it a few years go:  That was my first purchase from CH but I was living in Rochester NY at the time and although I continued to do business with them after that, I never made it to Denver after that 1985 trip. It helps if a shop has has items hardly anyone else has and can justify MRSP. Hawkins Rail Supply in Lafayette IN comes to mind. I visited Hawkins in the early 90's while I was a starving grad student at IU with some fellow modelers and he did have lots of hard to find stuff and people were calling him all the time cause he "had it". Some shops have built up a reputation over many years. Maybe Desplaines Hobbies is like that. I have heard of them but never bought anything from them that I can recall. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 14:15:59 GMT -8
Well I bought a lot of trains from Caboose Hobbies in the past.
I see no issues with the owners' comments. They were candid. Yes, it could actually take a ton of money to get internet sales up and running well.
Rule of thumb I've been told: you have to sell 10 times the amount of model trains as the salary you want to make in a given year. When you look at it that way, $200,000 seems or would have seemed about right to get internet sales going...
In the past they "had everything" and yes people came from all over the world just to shop there. |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 5, 2021 14:26:50 GMT -8
I'm sure the owners comments were candid. I also wonder if his pricing when compared to so many other online vendors lost online business. I know I looked and then walked away. How many customers were like me?
|
|
|
|
Post by migalyto on Jan 5, 2021 15:36:55 GMT -8
Is the guy who left Athearn to manage the place still with them?
|
|
|
|
Post by Colin 't Hart on Jan 6, 2021 5:25:13 GMT -8
Caboose Hobbies had a working e-commerce system. Why didn't he take over that? 200K to build a system seems absurd when one can build one incrementally using eg Shopify and pay as you go.
And I've said it before and I'll say it again: As long as existing customers aren't refunded deposits they paid -- or are shipped products they paid down-payments on -- and outstanding debts to suppliers are paid, I won't be spending a cent there. And maybe not after that either. Too risky, IMHO.
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 6, 2021 6:08:44 GMT -8
Caboose does have a negative reputation to overcome regarding all the customers who have paid for items not received. Iowa Scaled Engineering is one example among others. I reread the above statements but recall that the onlything mentioned was Caboose was planning to return consignment items. No mention of refunds to those who put deposits or down payments. Hopefully they will get their money back.
With the shop gone, it seems there isn't any "financially gainful" plans. He mentioned cultivating the community of rail fans. Do they really need to be cultivated? What money is there in it? It seems Mr. Ruble needs to find a way to make an income to restore finances lost and to repay those who have lost money to Caboose, and more.
I'm sure it really sucks to invest a great deal of money into a business and have it end up going bust and losing it all. It's like a train version of Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares:
"Kitchen Nightmares is an American reality television series formerly broadcast on the Fox network, in which chef Gordon Ramsay is invited by the owners to spend a week with a failing restaurant in an attempt to revive the business.[1] It is based on the British show Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares."
My wife and I were watching the British version with an episode of a former British Actor Allen Love, who had a posh seafood restaurant on the ocean front in England. He had a vision of how to run it and it was losing thousands each month. In the episode, Gordon basically gave him the hard truth that his plans, his staff and décor were all on a losing streak and if he didn't listen and change things, it was going out of business in a matter of weeks. The fish restaurant owner was down to selling his house to keep funding the rapidly sinking restaurant. IT would be throwing good money after bad. At the end, he finally listened to Gordon and changed the menu, and whipped the cooks into shape and turned things around and began making money again. The then managed to stay open but did close 2 years later (reportedly due to a credit crunch).
If there was a famous model RR guy in the US, he could probably do a Hobby Shop Night Mare's and try to turn some of the shops around to save them. Like Restaurants, model train hobby shops are a tough business, probably much tougher - and it requires a very savvy person with some secret sauce to make them work these days. Most of us who have watch hobby shops over the last 20 or 30 years would be very reticent to ever try such an endeavor.
|
|
|
|
Post by peoriaman on Jan 6, 2021 6:44:29 GMT -8
He mentioned cultivating the community of rail fans. Do they really need to be cultivated? What money is there in it? I tend to think he was using the term "foamers" as a catchall term to include all who hold an interest in trains, not specifically the camera-toting railfan who more often than not carries only a passing interest in modelling. |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 6, 2021 7:15:43 GMT -8
He mentioned cultivating the community of rail fans. Do they really need to be cultivated? What money is there in it? I tend to think he was using the term "foamers" as a catchall term to include all who hold an interest in trains, not specifically the camera-toting railfan who more often than not carries only a passing interest in modelling. What surprised me is that he decided to Change the name to Caboose from Caboose Hobbies because of the perceived negative connotation to the word hobby. Yet Caboose Hobbies was in the Guinness book in 2014 for it's long running (since 1938) success. That success seems self explanatory. I wonder if there are any unspoken reasons Caboose changed their name from Caboose Hobbies. |
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 6, 2021 12:33:53 GMT -8
I wonder what the real owners of the business have to say. Kevin sold it, remember? I wonder what the new owners paid him for the business.
Are they pleased with their investment?
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 9, 2021 16:56:09 GMT -8
Probably not, or won't be when things don't pan out. It seems a schrewed move by Ruble.
|
|
|
|
Post by modeler on Jan 28, 2021 19:06:30 GMT -8
Not piling on just my observations as I live in Colorado and have gone to the shop on occasion. I'll base it on the fact that at this point I have pretty much everything I need/want and my occasional visits there were pretty much an effort to give them some business, for 2019 and likely going back into 2018 I found there was almost nothing I wanted, even glue was out of stock for many months, something cheap to keep on the pegboards, many times I walked out empty handed, sometimes I bought a magazine just so I got something from them. When I would look at some odd item to maybe buy to justify my walking in the door the prices were shocking. True when they started out in 2017 they were much smaller than Caboose Hobbies was on Broadway but I hoped for the best that they would establish and grow but that was not the case. It was clear to me in 2019 that the shelves got emptier as time went on. I went there in November 2019 figuring they would be stocked for Christmas but again emptiness. It was clear they were in bad trouble to me. I stopped there in April 2020 and they were closed with the March 18 note on the door regarding corona virus. I stopped again in November 2020 hoping to see some stock with Christmas coming and still dark, same note on the door. I can tell you many retail stores remained open during the height of the Corona Panic in the spring and offered curbside service. Pretty much all these stores were fully re-opened by June at the latest. So why Caboose stayed closed all those months when they could have opened the doors. Why after 3 plus years in business had they not engaged online sales in a more robust effort. I had no idea about the support for BLM and such, why on god's green earth would you want to alienate half your customer base ? I do not know about kept deposits or unpaid vendors so I won't speak to that. I don't understand anything about being a public benefit company or whatever......they are a privately owned retail establishment. I guess in the age of gender fluidity anything goes, maybe they can define themselves as a ham and cheese sandwich. Why would employees agree to take over ownership of an establishment that likely has a lot of debt and angry creditors ? I'll bet they were unemployed mostly for some period, so taking on the debt of their employers is a good deal  ?? If it were me I would formally cut ties immediately, the owners have the debt, not the employees. I saw this sort of deceptive game several years back with Mizell trains, they got a new owner who implemented a lot of poor business practices as I understand it and it was clear when I visited in it's later days they were in trouble. They denied it up and down but when the store was largely empty and they even had sale tags on the framed pictures on the walls and empty show cases ? I was born but I wasn't born yesterday. Sure enough the 30% then 50% off etc. signs came out and still denial. Finally when the place was more than 75% empty they admitted they were closing. Yes the Caboose Hobbies on Broadway was a magical place and I'm glad I had so many visits there. My wife even loved to go, there was so much neat stuff to see and tempt you to buy. When I move to Colorado 27 years ago from Upstate New York we also had Mizell and Trainmaster out in Aurora was decent too, probably others I have forgotten. I guess I will check Roys in the Springs but otherwise I get good service from WigWag in New Mexico. Another great shop comes to a final end, like Spoonley the Trainman in Buffalo when I was really little and all the years me and my buddies hung out at KVAL. Fields hobbies was also great back in the day in the original store on Bailey. As for the Denver area I don't think there is a decent model railroad store remaining. |
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Jan 28, 2021 19:31:46 GMT -8
There was a discussion on Rio grande io.groups recently about hobby shops in Denver and they said the same thing, nothing left.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2021 17:30:27 GMT -8
$200,000 for an e-store is insane.
Try spending $80,000-$100,000 (maybe more in Colorado) for a year or two for an IT staffer who can administer an e-store, plus e-store fees, and they're a warm body who can man the register during slow times to boot.
It sounds to me like he wanted a customized product that he would self-host, with custom programming and everything. That's a lot to pay for, with very little to show.
|
|
|
|
Post by Colin 't Hart on Jan 30, 2021 13:54:02 GMT -8
$200,000 for an e-store is insane. Try spending $80,000-$100,000 (maybe more in Colorado) for a year or two for an IT staffer who can administer an e-store, plus e-store fees, and they're a warm body who can man the register during slow times to boot. It sounds to me like he wanted a customized product that he would self-host, with custom programming and everything. That's a lot to pay for, with very little to show. Not even that. Anyone can setup a shop on eg Shopify in a few hours to a few days and pay for it as you go (they take a percentage fee). |
|
|
|
Post by 12bridge on Jan 30, 2021 17:34:53 GMT -8
One must have stock before you can have an estore...
|
|
|
|
Post by NS4122 on Jan 30, 2021 19:36:15 GMT -8
The Original Caboose Hobbies was the first online hobby shop that I did business with. They were advertising a Bachmann Acela Express trainset and they were including the extra end business class car. The price was fantastic, so I jumped on it. Sure enough when the order came there was no end business class car and when I emailed them they replied that the listing was a mistake. While I wasn't happy, I didn't pursue it any further because it was still a good bargain without the extra car. I placed one more order with them that was fulfilled without any issues, but several months later I got an email that said they were hacked and my credit card could have been compromised. Never placed another order after that.
|
|
