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Post by mdvle on May 25, 2021 14:45:54 GMT -8
- why won't bring back kits? - not cost effective, most Athearn customers don't want kits Yet people still keep asking for kits. They keep getting told and it still isn't sinking in. Go to train shows and they are still out there, left over from when kits were produced. - GP30 need to look into, but don't want to duplicate Duplicate whos? The GP30's currently out there are 25 year old Proto2000.
But if the kits are still out there at train shows, doesn't that show that there isn't demand for them - if people wanted them, the train show vendors would sell out at some point...
As for the GP30, I took it as a hint that somebody else is working on a new tooled version.
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Post by riogrande on May 25, 2021 15:06:42 GMT -8
- why won't bring back kits? - not cost effective, most Athearn customers don't want kits Yet people still keep asking for kits. They keep getting told and it still isn't sinking in. Go to train shows and they are still out there, left over from when kits were produced. - GP30 need to look into, but don't want to duplicate Duplicate whos? The GP30's currently out there are 25 year old Proto2000. But if the kits are still out there at train shows, doesn't that show that there isn't demand for them - if people wanted them, the train show vendors would sell out at some point... Bingo. But yet they still ask. Is their any intelligent life down here? Sounds like it. ST please!
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Post by stevewagner on May 25, 2021 15:33:21 GMT -8
The principal of Scale Trains stated in a Zoom session or video not long ago that the GP30 was his favorite locomotive. I'm pretty sure the product development people at Athearn are aware of that.
I thought the GP30 was the last really attractive locomotive type that EMD made. In an ideal world I'd go for a trio of nicely done models of B&O's in their as built "Sunburst" paint like those I saw hustling a time freight westward through Cumberland, MD in August 1963. And maybe a Reading unit, the first to see active use. And maybe Milwaukee and Soo units riding on trucks from Alco locos those roads traded in. Given lack of funds and space, those are just "pipe dreams", however.
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Post by wp8thsub on May 25, 2021 15:57:44 GMT -8
As for the GP30, I took it as a hint that somebody else is working on a new tooled version. A Scale Trains representative at the 2019 National Train Show in Salt Lake City was openly telling attendees that a GP30 was in development. I was at that show.
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Post by lars on May 25, 2021 16:41:28 GMT -8
There was a lot of subtext in Jim’s remarks on the GP30 vs GP40. So he said that they didn’t want to do something that someone else is doing and mentioned the 20+ year old Proto locomotive. And he said that we’ll likely see a GP40, yet some body else makes 38s and 40s, which is contrary to his first remarks.
I think this is good for people who have been wanting and upgraded GP30 AND a GP40.
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Post by slowfreight on May 25, 2021 17:11:52 GMT -8
So do I pull out my SOO GP30 and Atlas RS3, and start the long-delayed repowering/detailing project, or save the time and shelve it until the "perfect" one is released? Then I'll have to purge the extra project stuff....
P2K GP30s and Kato GP35s are still my 2 favorite starting platforms for projects. As old as it is, the P2K GP30 shell really does hold up to modern offerings.
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Post by cera2254 on May 25, 2021 17:22:37 GMT -8
So do I pull out my SOO GP30 and Atlas RS3, and start the long-delayed repowering/detailing project, or save the time and shelve it until the "perfect" one is released? The sooner you start the sooner the perfect one will be announced. Lol
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Post by dti406 on May 25, 2021 17:51:37 GMT -8
- why won't bring back kits? - not cost effective, most Athearn customers don't want kits Yet people still keep asking for kits. They keep getting told and it still isn't sinking in. Go to train shows and they are still out there, left over from when kits were produced. Whose kits, Athearn Blue Box, those are shake the box kits of no known prototype with cast on detail that has to be replaced, and if they are painted the paint job was poor at best. Branchline and Proto decorated kits are around but no undecs are able to be found, some people do not like to strip decorated kits, especially the decorated detail parts like ladders and grabs. Both Atlas and Tangent have undecorated kits and they sell out almost as fast as the decorated kits. Tangent's 86' Hi-Cubes and the combo door boxcars have already sold out. Rick Jesionowski
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Post by surlyknuckle on May 25, 2021 20:22:18 GMT -8
GP30s and GP38s/GP40s of later phases are all things I can use multiples of (Chessie System modeler). I do have my 4 Proto 2000 units that I started (but stopped) upgrading several years ago.
As for kits, it may depend on what people are looking for. If there are still kits languishing at shows, it may be safe to say those are the cars and engines that aren't in demand, rather than saying kits as a whole are not. I've been trying to pick up new-in-box Athearn kits of models I had as a youngster, and some are near impossible to find (because those prototypes were popular).
A question I haven't seen asked when it comes to the whole kit thing; Do we want kits like Athearn blue-box aimed at beginners or people on a budget who truly don't care about detail, or more inline with those Proto 2000 or Branchline kits for more advanced modelers?
I belong to an Athearn blue box group on Facebook, and while I enjoy the nostalgia of looking at nice examples of classic train offerings from years gone by, a sad chunk of the "content" is made up of older guys who consider the rtr stuff "cheap Chinese crap" and they want no part of it. They lack the understanding that scale models should be treated carefully and that "details that break off when you just LOOK at them" aren't the fault of the manufacturer trying to produce higher fidelity models, but rather those who ham-fist their trains and run them on the shag carpet. They want specifically, Athearn kits, made in the USA, at the prices they remember. That ain't happenin'.
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Post by calzeph on May 26, 2021 0:42:40 GMT -8
You could adapt the Atlas cab and chassis to a Herpa/Promotex mixer body. Except the Herpa body is a fairly crude piece, which drives one back to finding more Athearn bodies.
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Post by calzeph on May 26, 2021 0:51:40 GMT -8
The Herpa body is far from a crude piece. It is a close second to Athearn's body and made in two or three bowl ( drum ) sizes. Herpa has always been recognized as a high quality German toolmaker and designer of vehicles. It is far better than any other manufacturers mixer bodies , except Athearn as mentioned. Note Athearn makes two styles of mixer bodies.
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Post by calzeph on May 26, 2021 0:53:00 GMT -8
Except the Herpa body is a fairly crude piece, which drives one back to finding more Athearn bodies. Well, it's better than Boley, Lindberg or Wiking mixer bodies. Most resin models need tons of work and they still don't finish out as nice as the Herpa mixer unless you bring a lot to the table. Until Athearn runs their mixer body again - on whatever chassis they choose (spoiler alert: it won't be a Mack B or R) - your only choice is to fight it out with everyone else over the existing stock unless you can make the Herpa body work. You're not likely to pick up an Athearn Mack mixer for less than a Tangent car and the Ford or Kenworth mixers don't fall far behind. By the time you add in shipping you're looking at around $55 for a Ford or Kenworth mixer and $65-70 for a Mack mixer. Fortunately I'm not modeling a batch plant, but it's something I'd consider if I could get clean Mack R cabs and mixer bodies in bulk.
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Post by calzeph on May 26, 2021 1:15:58 GMT -8
I agree with Ryan, again. It is better than Boley, Lindberg, Wiking, CCM (we won't go there ). As we are unlikely to see Athearn Macks again, only the Kenworth has the newer hydraulic driven mixer bowl, which is patterned after a McNielus prototype. The Ford F-850 has the older chain driven bowl. The former Mack R had the newer hydraulic bowl, the former Mack B-62 had the older chain drive bowl. When choosing an Athearn mixer bowl beware of the style that fits your era. The Herpa mixer bowl is an excellent model to do conversions with as there are several capacity sizes of them, all high quality German products. Kibri also made very nice examples of two sizes of mixers.
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Post by lars on May 26, 2021 4:02:16 GMT -8
First off, I don’t buy the line that RTR is more cost effective than kits. Wherever you can make a comparison between Athearn Roundhouse or RTR and an Accurail or ScaleTrains kit, the kit is $7-10 cheaper. For instance, the wonderful Accurail 4750 hopper MSRP is $10 less than the 2018 Athearn RTR run of 4740s. Not to be cynical, but my guess of “cost effective” refers more to profit than cost.
Second, looking at the more detailed kits, I have a hard time squaring up the statements from the manufacturers about the rising cost of labor and the unwillingness to offer kits. It seems to me that if you can knock off a few hours of assembly and pass that off to the customer as a savings, it’s win-win. The lack of kits signals that the manufacturers are more willing to work the “value-added” model of adding cost + additional profit to the price. Likely as long as price increases can be passed on to the customer without lowering sallies volume, RTR is here to stay.
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Post by mdvle on May 26, 2021 4:14:51 GMT -8
First off, I don’t buy the line that RTR is more cost effective than kits. Wherever you can make a comparison between Athearn Roundhouse or RTR and an Accurail or ScaleTrains kit, the kit is $7-10 cheaper. For instance, the wonderful Accurail 4750 hopper MSRP is $10 less than the 2018 Athearn RTR run of 4740s. Not to be cynical, but my guess of “cost effective” refers more to profit than cost.
Except ScaleTrains has said the same thing.
In one of their recent Q&A's they were asked about the KitClassics line and they openly stated they could only see 1 or 2 more being offered because beyond that the number of parts would go up and they would have to price the kit at the same cost as an Operator release.
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Post by mdvle on May 26, 2021 4:20:52 GMT -8
There was a lot of subtext in Jim’s remarks on the GP30 vs GP40. So he said that they didn’t want to do something that someone else is doing and mentioned the 20+ year old Proto locomotive. And he said that we’ll likely see a GP40, yet some body else makes 38s and 40s, which is contrary to his first remarks.
Another case of one needs to read between the lines.
When he says Athearn doesn't want to duplicate, he is referring to a modern tooled highly detailed model with all the lighting features and not some 20 or more year old tooled model.
They can sort of get away with the duplication with the Dash-9/AC4400 and newer stuff because that tooling will sell for another 10+ years easily and those models will only get more popular as that bubble of 45-65 year old modelers shifts heavily into the 90s and later.
The GP30/35 and GP38/40 aren't in the same place - while there is still a market for them duplication of new models would likely hurt financially as that bubble either has passed them buy or is close to.
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Post by schroed2 on May 26, 2021 5:19:12 GMT -8
Second, looking at the more detailed kits, I have a hard time squaring up the statements from the manufacturers about the rising cost of labor and the unwillingness to offer kits. It seems to me that if you can knock off a few hours of assembly and pass that off to the customer as a savings, it’s win-win. which "more detailed kits" are you talking about ? If I just look at MY stash of kits (the ORIGINAL P2K PS4427 comes to mind), I completely understand the statement about the rising cost of labor. There was also a time some years ago, when most of the kit manufacturers shipped their remaining stock to China and brought it back fully assembled as RTR or (in the case of P2K) half-assembled as time-saver kits. I DO not think this shows that kits were selling well at that time... That stash of kits also includes undecorated kits from the RTR era made by Atlas, Athearn, Intermountain, Red Caboose, Exactrail, Tangent. I do try to avoid the classic style kits (not only shake-the-box) but still have more then enough of THEM in my stash, too (but the painting and lettering quality is not up to todays standards - if the details are)
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Post by lars on May 26, 2021 5:49:00 GMT -8
There was a lot of subtext in Jim’s remarks on the GP30 vs GP40. So he said that they didn’t want to do something that someone else is doing and mentioned the 20+ year old Proto locomotive. And he said that we’ll likely see a GP40, yet some body else makes 38s and 40s, which is contrary to his first remarks.
Another case of one needs to read between the lines.
When he says Athearn doesn't want to duplicate, he is referring to a modern tooled highly detailed model with all the lighting features and not some 20 or more year old tooled model.
They can sort of get away with the duplication with the Dash-9/AC4400 and newer stuff because that tooling will sell for another 10+ years easily and those models will only get more popular as that bubble of 45-65 year old modelers shifts heavily into the 90s and later.
The GP30/35 and GP38/40 aren't in the same place - while there is still a market for them duplication of new models would likely hurt financially as that bubble either has passed them buy or is close to.
I think we’re coming to the same conclusion here. My guess is we’ll see a Genesis GP 38/40 at some time and “another manufacturer” will bring out a Genesis (or Rivet Counter) level GP30 soon.
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Post by riogrande on May 26, 2021 5:50:10 GMT -8
First off, I don’t buy the line that RTR is more cost effective than kits. Wherever you can make a comparison between Athearn Roundhouse or RTR and an Accurail or ScaleTrains kit, the kit is $7-10 cheaper. For instance, the wonderful Accurail 4750 hopper MSRP is $10 less than the 2018 Athearn RTR run of 4740s. Not to be cynical, but my guess of “cost effective” refers more to profit than cost. Second, looking at the more detailed kits, I have a hard time squaring up the statements from the manufacturers about the rising cost of labor and the unwillingness to offer kits. It seems to me that if you can knock off a few hours of assembly and pass that off to the customer as a savings, it’s win-win. The lack of kits signals that the manufacturers are more willing to work the “value-added” model of adding cost + additional profit to the price. Likely as long as price increases can be passed on to the customer without lowering sallies volume, RTR is here to stay. Either way, manufactures seem to be unwilling to increase kit production so whether you "buy" their rational is ultimately moot. My guess is we’ll see a Genesis GP 38/40 at some time and “another manufacturer” will bring out a Genesis (or Rivet Counter) level GP30 soon. Hopefully sometime within my life time or before things implode overseas.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 6:41:23 GMT -8
First off, I don’t buy the line that RTR is more cost effective than kits. Wherever you can make a comparison between Athearn Roundhouse or RTR and an Accurail or ScaleTrains kit, the kit is $7-10 cheaper. For instance, the wonderful Accurail 4750 hopper MSRP is $10 less than the 2018 Athearn RTR run of 4740s. Not to be cynical, but my guess of “cost effective” refers more to profit than cost. Second, looking at the more detailed kits, I have a hard time squaring up the statements from the manufacturers about the rising cost of labor and the unwillingness to offer kits. It seems to me that if you can knock off a few hours of assembly and pass that off to the customer as a savings, it’s win-win. The lack of kits signals that the manufacturers are more willing to work the “value-added” model of adding cost + additional profit to the price. Likely as long as price increases can be passed on to the customer without lowering sallies volume, RTR is here to stay. Lars--
To put this nicely, you just do not know what you do not know:
I actually HAVE packed model railroad kits for a manufacturer located in the United States, years ago--BEFORE they furloughed almost all staff and offshored all production to China. Packing kits just utterly sucks; it is mentally very tedious--for anyone. Someone must count out each individual part based on the exploded view diagram. Then someone else must do a recount to verify the kit was packed correctly. That is how it was done. As much as possible, parts of subassemblies are grouped together into sealed plastic bags so that less parts are counted at one given time. This is all VERY labor intensive, mind-numbing work. Doing 10 or 25 units is easy. Doing it all day 8 hours per day is hard.
The packaging MUST be done differently for kits versus RTR, and especially with locomotives, the packaging of undecorateds is significantly different--so they must design a completely different box for them (typically for only very limited sales--that alone becomes a money losing proposition).
Now, even in China--EVERYTHING that ScaleTrains said is LITERALLY 100% TRUE. I actually admire and appreciate that they took the time to try to explain it. You can simply choose to not believe what they said; that is your right.
However, that does not make what they said untrue.
I am not authorized to speak on behalf of any manufacturer, but I know some would agree 100% with everything ScaleTrains said. (Also, I'm not even a ScaleTrains fan, owning only a couple of their freight cars, that's it.)
It costs more time to pack the kits relative to the price they can actually sell them for than it takes to completely assemble the finished model with their experienced workforce. If they drop a part on the floor, they just pick another from the pile--no counting is involved--and they assembly line as much as they possibly can into steps. Their workforce could assemble rings around most of us.
There are modelers on here who do fantastic work--but not under time constraints. It is much more difficult to do this kind of assembly work in an amount of time that is profitable, and I'd really love to see how accurately you or most of the middle aged (or older) now visually challenged (like myself) people could try to pack kits.
"More profit" is not the case. It's more like "make A profit" as opposed to losing money.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 26, 2021 7:31:53 GMT -8
Packing little bits reliably into plastic bags is "very tedious" and "utterly sucks". Got it.
How about putting little grab irons in little holes and making sure they're all straight and square? Is it also "very tedious" and utterly suckable? Because THAT'S what people are doing in the RTR production line. As far as my uninformed mind knows, anyway.
Ed
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Post by cera2254 on May 26, 2021 8:16:50 GMT -8
Packing little bits reliably into plastic bags is "very tedious" and "utterly sucks". Got it. How about putting little grab irons in little holes and making sure they're all straight and square? Is it also "very tedious" and utterly suckable? Because THAT'S what people are doing in the RTR production line. As far as my uninformed mind knows, anyway. Ed My guess is that most people wouldn’t be willing to pay RTR prices for kits. I imagine that’s what would have to happen for mfrs to be willing to produce kits. Also, my guess is that the mfrs also aren’t ignorant of the costs. If they could make more money selling kits why wouldn’t they already be doing it?
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Post by mdvle on May 26, 2021 8:32:55 GMT -8
Packing little bits reliably into plastic bags is "very tedious" and "utterly sucks". Got it. How about putting little grab irons in little holes and making sure they're all straight and square? Is it also "very tedious" and utterly suckable? Because THAT'S what people are doing in the RTR production line. As far as my uninformed mind knows, anyway.
I think the issue is that packaging kits, being labor intensive, means there isn't room for cost savings over a fully assembled model as much as customers would expect - hence the point ScaleTrains made where as the part count went up the price becoming the same as a fully assembled model.
And if offered item X at $40 as a kit or as a fully assembled model 99% of customers choose the fully assembled model.
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Post by mdvle on May 26, 2021 8:35:52 GMT -8
Both Atlas and Tangent have undecorated kits and they sell out almost as fast as the decorated kits. Tangent's 86' Hi-Cubes and the combo door boxcars have already sold out. How fast things sell out tells us nothing if we don't know how many are made.
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Post by lars on May 26, 2021 8:46:31 GMT -8
First off, I don’t buy the line that RTR is more cost effective than kits. Wherever you can make a comparison between Athearn Roundhouse or RTR and an Accurail or ScaleTrains kit, the kit is $7-10 cheaper. For instance, the wonderful Accurail 4750 hopper MSRP is $10 less than the 2018 Athearn RTR run of 4740s. Not to be cynical, but my guess of “cost effective” refers more to profit than cost. Second, looking at the more detailed kits, I have a hard time squaring up the statements from the manufacturers about the rising cost of labor and the unwillingness to offer kits. It seems to me that if you can knock off a few hours of assembly and pass that off to the customer as a savings, it’s win-win. The lack of kits signals that the manufacturers are more willing to work the “value-added” model of adding cost + additional profit to the price. Likely as long as price increases can be passed on to the customer without lowering sallies volume, RTR is here to stay. Lars--
To put this nicely, you just do not know what you do not know:
I actually HAVE packed model railroad kits for a manufacturer located in the United States, years ago--BEFORE they furloughed almost all staff and offshored all production to China. Packing kits just utterly sucks; it is mentally very tedious--for anyone. Someone must count out each individual part based on the exploded view diagram. Then someone else must do a recount to verify the kit was packed correctly. That is how it was done. As much as possible, parts of subassemblies are grouped together into sealed plastic bags so that less parts are counted at one given time. This is all VERY labor intensive, mind-numbing work. Doing 10 or 25 units is easy. Doing it all day 8 hours per day is hard.
The packaging MUST be done differently for kits versus RTR, and especially with locomotives, the packaging of undecorateds is significantly different--so they must design a completely different box for them (typically for only very limited sales--that alone becomes a money losing proposition).
Now, even in China--EVERYTHING that ScaleTrains said is LITERALLY 100% TRUE. I actually admire and appreciate that they took the time to try to explain it. You can simply choose to not believe what they said; that is your right.
However, that does not make what they said untrue.
I am not authorized to speak on behalf of any manufacturer, but I know some would agree 100% with everything ScaleTrains said. (Also, I'm not even a ScaleTrains fan, owning only a couple of their freight cars, that's it.)
It costs more time to pack the kits relative to the price they can actually sell them for than it takes to completely assemble the finished model with their experienced workforce. If they drop a part on the floor, they just pick another from the pile--no counting is involved--and they assembly line as much as they possibly can into steps. Their workforce could assemble rings around most of us.
There are modelers on here who do fantastic work--but not under time constraints. It is much more difficult to do this kind of assembly work in an amount of time that is profitable, and I'd really love to see how accurately you or most of the middle aged (or older) now visually challenged (like myself) people could try to pack kits.
"More profit" is not the case. It's more like "make A profit" as opposed to losing money.
Well I’m a scientist, so the first thing I lean on above anything else is evidence. When it comes to low parts count freight car kits, there is good evidence, ScaleTrains products included, that kits are cheaper than comparable RTR. I haven’t personally mentioned locomotives in this discussion, and I do think they’re another beast entirely. When the parts count goes up, a lot of when you mentioned starts to happen. However, my guess is that those items aren’t designed as kits. For instance, rather than having all the small parts for a single model on one or two sprues, there are 100 brake wheels on a single sprue, of which someone has to clip off every one and put in a bag with 25 other small parts. When you design something to be built as a kit, you can significantly knock down the number of parts you have to pack, and anytime you lower counts, you lower errors as well. I had a bit of fun at lunch. I timed myself packing an Accurail 4750 and a Proto 4427 kit. I have multiples of each so I referenced a “correctly” packed kit. This was my first time, and I’m fairly certain an experienced person would be faster than me, just as those on an assembly line can likely assemble a RTR 2-4 times faster than I can. Here’s what I came up with: Accurail 4750 - approx 45 parts total -2 large parts -4 sprues -1 baggie w/ 12 parts -2 pieces of paper -1 weight -Packing time - 1 min, 7 sec Proto 4427 -1 large part wrapped in tissue -9 sprues wrapped in 3 tissues -4 weights taped to bottom of box -2 pieces paper -18 parts in 3 baggies -3 pieces bubble wrap -Packing time - 3 min, 49 sec In both cases the most of a single part was 4. You’re a lot less likely to screw up packing 4 wheel sets than 40 grabirons, so I don’t know if would be worthwhile having someone double check each kit vs dealing with the occasional incorrectly packed item after the fact. Regardless, I my guess it’s substantially faster than having even the most experienced hands build them as RTR. I fully understand that the two I packed were designed for quick packing, and would be up to a manufacturer to decide if it’s worthwhile to tool something as a kit or RTR. I’m sure they know which one is the most profitable and don’t design for selling models as kits. It may also mean as you start getting into lots of individual wire parts, that the spread between packing costs vs assembly likely does not becomes worth it. However, that does not mean it’s the only way to do something in every case. I think your comment “It costs more time to pack the kits relative to the price they can actually sell them for” is the whole point of things. There is some space in the train market for easy to assemble kits, whereby someone can save $5-10 by taking an hour or two of their time putting together an Accurail or Kit Classics kit vs buying an Athearn Roundhouse or low-end RTR item. When the complexities of packing parts goes up, and the cost spread doesn’t change that much, the math isn’t quite the same for taking all weekend to assemble a freight car to save $10. However, as the price of labor continues to rise, the spread between packing vs assembly might be enough that some high end kits could be an option. And profit certainly comes into consideration of assembling vs packing. The whole point of value added products is to make a little more above costs to do an extra step in the manufacturing process. ScaleTrains, Athearn, et al. I’m fairly sure know they can charge a little above the marginal cost to assemble each unit and/or more move volume because they’re assembled. In other words, they’re certainly not losing money on every RTR they sell vs selling it as a kit.
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Post by schroed2 on May 26, 2021 9:22:04 GMT -8
In other words, they’re certainly not losing money on every RTR they sell vs selling it as a kit. another thing to consider is: can "they" sell as many kits as RTR models in the year 2021+ ?
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Post by schroed2 on May 26, 2021 9:33:12 GMT -8
Packing little bits reliably into plastic bags is "very tedious" and "utterly sucks". Got it. How about putting little grab irons in little holes and making sure they're all straight and square? Is it also "very tedious" and utterly suckable? Because THAT'S what people are doing in the RTR production line. As far as my uninformed mind knows, anyway. Ed from a first world worker (male, middle-aged) point of view, both lines of work suck utterly...but from a typical chinese factory workers (young female, family back in the village, etc.) point of view, this kind of work (especially in a room full of similar workers) has definitely advantages (including higher wages) over the alternatives (like working in the rice paddies or garbage collecting...) disclaimer: this statement is based on my own experiences (in other industrial fields) for 11 years all over Eastern Asia and is also heavily influenced by the explanations provided by my Singapore-born wife of pure Hainanese origin (who demonstrated her superior skills in painting Preiser figurines quite early in our 25+ year relationship).
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 12:14:57 GMT -8
Packing little bits reliably into plastic bags is "very tedious" and "utterly sucks". Got it. How about putting little grab irons in little holes and making sure they're all straight and square? Is it also "very tedious" and utterly suckable? Because THAT'S what people are doing in the RTR production line. As far as my uninformed mind knows, anyway. Ed Ed--
The difference is the workers in those factories become so adept at putting the grab irons in the holes that they are faster at doing that than having to count out all the parts for kits, and you are forgetting what ScaleTrains, and other manufacturers have plainly said: They simply DO NOT WANT to sell kits ie they jack the price UP on you.
That is why I said the price point at which a high end kit can sell versus labor to pack it is most likely a worse differential, for the manufacturers, than for selling RTR freight cars and locos.
You the modeler also have the luxury of spending large(r) amounts of time to complete the same task that smaller, very adept hands in those factories can do the same task.
Some of you seem to have this perception that the manufacturers are all greedy expletive deleted people who are just out to make all the profit they possibly can. Not in THIS industry. It just doesn't work that way.
It is true that manufacturers want to sell fully featured locos with working class lights and everything else etc. because they figured out that is the best way to make money, the highest profit margin. They have privately admitted as much.
However you can't have engines arriving all the time, so you need to sell lots and lots of freight cars.
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Post by stevewagner on May 26, 2021 14:42:02 GMT -8
For some of us, new locos have to be few and far between. Freight cars are generally a good deal less expensive.
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Post by mdvle on May 28, 2021 13:19:33 GMT -8
Athearn June 2021 Announcements 0:02 - Genesis 2.0 - SD90MAC 0:11 - RTR - 16k slurry tank cars 0:14 - RTR - 4740 0:17 - RTR - 52' Mill Gon 0:20 - RTR - 45' containers 0:22 - RTR - Ford pannel truck 0:24 - Roundhouse caboose 0:28 - N Scale 0:32 - Q&A - Virtual Railfan - Oklahoma City OK - nothing that seemed interesting 0:45 - Jim's thoughts on Memorial Day YouTube link
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