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Post by riogrande on Jul 12, 2020 7:40:50 GMT -8
Isn’t the Athearn Genesis F shell the Highliner shell? And isn’t that considered the best shell on the market, even by today’s standards? Mark J. Reading, PA Yes, from what I understand the Genesis F shell is still considered the best among all the F units with possible exception to the Rapido F that was tooled using 3D scans of a real F7 nose.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 12, 2020 7:43:25 GMT -8
So the Kato model is crap? At the time...the Kato AC4400 was an acceptable model and the drive was...and still is...the smoothest I have used. I did not belittle the model in any way, shape or form. Given what I observe in the latest SD40-2/3 and ET44AH locomotives from Scale Trains and the ES44 and SD 70/90 MAC from Athearn Genesis...the details, fit and finish are far superior to the similar Kato offerings I have owned since the early 2000's. Set the Kato SD 40-2/3, SD 70 MAC and SD 80/90 MAC next to a Scale Trains or Genesis version and there is no comparison. At the time...they were nice models but a Scale Trains or Genesis AC4400 would be exceptional. That is my point. The Kato bodyshells were nice... At one time. I forget what model they did first - the GP35 or SD40 or SD45? Maybe the Atlas Alcos? Whatever it was, that was the high-water mark for them. They never improved the fidelity of their detailing in the 35+ years since then. They stood still while everyone else improved their tooling and details.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 12, 2020 8:16:27 GMT -8
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Post by cemr5396 on Jul 12, 2020 8:29:56 GMT -8
The KATO shells were very well done. In front of me right now I have a Kato SD70MAC and a Genesis SD75I, and the Kato shell still stands up. The trucks are also very good. Where the Kato falls short is the execution of the separately applied parts. Done in plastic instead of wire, they are almost universally oversized and clunky. Especially the handrails, which are probably twice the size of Athearn's. Later models like the AC4400 and Dash-9 were better in this regard. I replaced all of the grab irons, windshield wipers, etc. on my AC4400 with better parts and it made a world of difference. Yes, the handrails are a little big even on these (front and rear more so than longhood), but not objectionably so. Unlike the SD70MAC.
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 12, 2020 9:29:01 GMT -8
Seems like Scaletrains is bound to do an AC4400 sooner or later, simply because they're already most of the way there with the Dash 9.
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Post by mdvle on Jul 12, 2020 10:09:08 GMT -8
I'm hoping for a up to date, accurate F unit. The Athearn models are dated. I want something on par to today's standard's. Yes, the Athearn models are dated. The F7 shell was originally released by Globe Models and dates from the mid-1950's. Oh, and check your grammar. I think it would be nice if all these people condemning Athearn and their F7 model*s* would be clear which version they are talking about. The older Athearn F7 (I assume the Globe Models based one) is now a lower end Roundhouse model. The Athearn Genesis F7 (and other F? models) is based on the excellent Highliner molds with a Genesis drivetrain and now with LED lights Latest Athearn F unit announcement
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Jul 12, 2020 15:57:50 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm not sure how one could really criticize the Genesis F-units. The Highliners nose is by far the best out there, even compared to the Rapido which was actually not 3D scanned. In fact, I think they said at some point that doing the complicated F-unit nose was what drove them to start 3D scanning with anything that has compound curves.
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Post by bigblow69 on Jul 13, 2020 17:48:29 GMT -8
I dumped all my Kato Locomotives except for three, a Cumberland Mine Sd38-2 and 2 CEFX AC4400CW's. I hope SCALETRAINS do those in the first run since I see them trundling along all over.
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Jul 13, 2020 18:53:31 GMT -8
I dumped all my Kato Locomotives except for three, a Cumberland Mine Sd38-2 and 2 CEFX AC4400CW's. I hope SCALETRAINS do those in the first run since I see them trundling along all over. I won't get rid of my Kato SD 40-2, SD 70 MAC and SD 80/90 MAC locomotives since they are, at least, 17 years old, but they still run like new. They are being and have been semi-retired as newer, better-detailed models become available. You really notice the difference when you set the new Genesis SD 90 MAC H-2 next to the Kato SD 80/90 MAC but it shows how the model railroad industry has improved in the last 20 years. It is quite obvious, that whatever product Scale Trains releases is going to be a winner.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Jul 13, 2020 22:36:02 GMT -8
Yeah, I'm not sure how one could really criticize the Genesis F-units. The Highliners nose is by far the best out there, even compared to the Rapido which was actually not 3D scanned. In fact, I think they said at some point that doing the complicated F-unit nose was what drove them to start 3D scanning with anything that has compound curves. That guy doing the criticising is a troll and doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Post by unittrain on Jul 14, 2020 4:55:16 GMT -8
Would like to see a GP40, I've got an Atlas B&O unit on pre-order. I need PC and Some Conrail GP40s.
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Post by markfj on Jul 14, 2020 7:01:46 GMT -8
A lot of early “GP” models are now dated and could use a refresh. The GP40 is a good pick, but the GP30 would be a better seller. It’s still one of the most iconic second generation diesels and I predict people would buy an ST version even if they own dozens of the P2K models. We know ST has a track record of producing models offered by other manufactures like the SD45 and tunnel motor, so it’s not a stretch to see a GP30 in the (near) future. I think Shane already made comments that they were looking at it.
Still, I wouldn’t say no to a GP40 either!
Thanks, Mark
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Jul 14, 2020 7:26:14 GMT -8
A lot of early “GP” models are now dated and could use a refresh. The GP40 is a good pick, but the GP30 would be a better seller. It’s still one of the most iconic second generation diesels and I predict people would buy an ST version even if they own dozens of the P2K models. We know ST has a track record of producing models offered by other manufactures like the SD45 and tunnel motor, so it’s not a stretch to see a GP30 in the (near) future. I think Shane already made comments that they were looking at it. Still, I wouldn’t say no to a GP40 either! Thanks, Mark A stretch but a CSX Road Slug converted from a GP30 would be wild...match that to a Genesis GP 40-2 and I would have another option for mainline or district operations.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 14, 2020 9:38:29 GMT -8
A lot of early “GP” models are now dated and could use a refresh. The GP40 is a good pick, but the GP30 would be a better seller. It’s still one of the most iconic second generation diesels and I predict people would buy an ST version even if they own dozens of the P2K models. We know ST has a track record of producing models offered by other manufactures like the SD45 and tunnel motor, so it’s not a stretch to see a GP30 in the (near) future. I think Shane already made comments that they were looking at it. Still, I wouldn’t say no to a GP40 either! Thanks, Mark Same here. I am really hoping for a ScaleTrains GP30, but could also used GP40's as well.
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 14, 2020 11:25:08 GMT -8
A lot of early “GP” models are now dated and could use a refresh. The GP40 is a good pick, but the GP30 would be a better seller. It’s still one of the most iconic second generation diesels and I predict people would buy an ST version even if they own dozens of the P2K models. We know ST has a track record of producing models offered by other manufactures like the SD45 and tunnel motor, so it’s not a stretch to see a GP30 in the (near) future. I think Shane already made comments that they were looking at it. Still, I wouldn’t say no to a GP40 either! Thanks, Mark Same here. I am really hoping for a ScaleTrains GP30, but could also used GP40's as well. Just curious here...is the P2K GP30 too dated? Is it the mechanism that's the problem? Not enough time to roll ones own? I still feel like the P2K GP30 shell is a fantastic starting point and while I haven't bought any of the Walthers release I find the stock mechanism adequate and a Kato mechanism fantastic. So I'm guessing I'm the weird one here?
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Post by riogrande on Jul 14, 2020 11:50:33 GMT -8
Just curious here...is the P2K GP30 too dated? Is it the mechanism that's the problem? Not enough time to roll ones own? I still feel like the P2K GP30 shell is a fantastic starting point and while I haven't bought any of the Walthers release I find the stock mechanism adequate and a Kato mechanism fantastic. So I'm guessing I'm the weird one here? No, I'm the weird one. Bottom line I really don't have the fine motor skills to do the Rio Grande low nose light and have it come out looking decent. I know this has become a "modelers board". I am not worthy. Oh well.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 14, 2020 11:52:08 GMT -8
How about a GP35? Kato's is ancient and although the drive is excellent the shell is typical Kato 80s-era tooling with clunky solid fans, coarse walkway tread and thick handrails. The Athearn shell still dates from Rail Power era if I am not mistaken?
The GP35 outsold the GP30 even though the latter holds more interest among modelers due to its one-of-a-kind styling.
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 14, 2020 12:03:14 GMT -8
WalthersProto came out with a GP35 recently, I don't remember if there were any problems with it.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 14, 2020 12:03:37 GMT -8
How about a GP35? Kato's is ancient and although the drive is excellent the shell is typical Kato 80s-era tooling with clunky solid fans, coarse walkway tread and thick handrails. The Athearn shell still dates from Rail Power era if I am not mistaken? The GP35 outsold the GP30 even though the latter holds more interest among modelers due to its one-of-a-kind styling. Agree. Isn't the chassis/frame shared by GP30 and GP35? According wiki 948 GP30's were built for American railroads and 1251 GP35's. D&RGW bought 28 GP30's and only 22 GP35's. Their GP35's were not particularly liked by Rio Grande and were classified as B units starting in 1972 after only 7-8 years from delivery. Reportedly engineers preferred the GP30, not so much for the styling but because apparently better attention was paid to the fit of the cab's and the doors etc., which made the cabs better environments. GP30's on the D&RGW often led trains with newer engines in the power set behind. So at least for D&RGW modelers, there is a prototypical reason for the GP30 over the GP35. GP35's are still needed in the power set, but only as trailing units.
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Post by edgecrusher on Jul 14, 2020 12:17:59 GMT -8
Well, the Kato 35 covers a few versions of the phase 1 models. The Walthers is a Phase 2. The biggest difference being the side sill and fuel tank. Plus many others. The 35 line was EMD's most "phase complicated" loco to date. So I can understand why a manufacturer why shy away from it.
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Post by mdvle on Jul 14, 2020 12:18:35 GMT -8
A look through Wikipedia shows the GP30/35 are the same length, so likely could share some stuff.
But the original owners shows lots of SF/UP/NYC/Pennsy so there should be a reasonable to very good market for a new modern model - thus likely more a question of when rather than if given the amount of stuff now being put out by Athearn/ScaleTrains/Rapido in the high detail diesel area.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 14, 2020 12:34:35 GMT -8
WalthersProto came out with a GP35 recently, I don't remember if there were any problems with it. Wow I missed those totally! I've never seen one. But I guess that explains where they got the Santa Fe GP35 on the "Name Train" announcement page.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 14, 2020 12:55:03 GMT -8
WalthersProto came out with a GP35 recently, I don't remember if there were any problems with it. Wow I missed those totally! I've never seen one. But I guess that explains where they got the Santa Fe GP35 on the "Name Train" announcement page. I don't recall them doing D&RGW GP35; if they did and it had the nose signal light, I would have probably bought them. Here is the SP.
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 14, 2020 20:07:27 GMT -8
Just curious here...is the P2K GP30 too dated? Is it the mechanism that's the problem? Not enough time to roll ones own? I still feel like the P2K GP30 shell is a fantastic starting point and while I haven't bought any of the Walthers release I find the stock mechanism adequate and a Kato mechanism fantastic. So I'm guessing I'm the weird one here? No, I'm the weird one. Bottom line I really don't have the fine motor skills to do the Rio Grande low nose light and have it come out looking decent. I know this has become a "modelers board". I am not worthy. Oh well. You have a layout and run trains. You are automatically worthy. Meanwhile, if you could get the nose out of a P2K unit (not sure if any are factory lettered), I suspect someone on this board could probably get the nose headlight added. I had to do that on a GO Transit ex-Rock unit a few years ago. Only took me a decade to get around to it...
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Post by riogrande on Jul 15, 2020 3:05:16 GMT -8
You have a layout and run trains. You are automatically worthy. Meanwhile, if you could get the nose out of a P2K unit (not sure if any are factory lettered), I suspect someone on this board could probably get the nose headlight added. I had to do that on a GO Transit ex-Rock unit a few years ago. Only took me a decade to get around to it... Working on it. After a several month pause to tear down the 18x19' deck to the frame and replace most of the wood, I was going to resume work on the layout but strained my back while on my hands and knees painting, but only a milds strain so hopefully this weekend I'll start laying track in the staging yard. Well, hopefully ScaleTrains will have one out in a lot less than a decade. If no GP30 is announced in the next year or two, maybe I'll look into help with the nose. The P2K isn't a bad looking model overall and I've got 5 in the inventory.
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Post by mdvle on Jul 23, 2020 17:23:47 GMT -8
Given that it is N scale doesn't matter to most on here, but for completeness today's announcement was the Standard Turbine.
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Post by simulatortrain on Jul 23, 2020 17:43:58 GMT -8
Also for completeness they announced plain versions of the Bethlehem 68' flats.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 23, 2020 18:24:37 GMT -8
Also for completeness they announced plain versions of the Bethlehem 68' flats. From the info supplied, it appears there were about 40 numbers produced for the CH version and 15 for the DH version. Not massive numbers. I could use a couple of them.
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