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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 14, 2020 15:56:10 GMT -8
And Walthers STILL thinks that AB sets of diesels were paired for life.
I DO wonder what "real metal finish" is. Is it "plating", without using the word "plating/plated"?
I guess I should be happy they didn't do the NCL, 'cause it would be personal. With Santa Fe, it's just a subject of conversation. For me. Maybe not for Santa Fe people.
Ed
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Post by brakie on Jul 14, 2020 16:27:14 GMT -8
And Walthers STILL thinks that AB sets of diesels were paired for life. Ed Ed, There are modelers that fully believes AB sets or ABBA sets was indeed paired for life. Of course these are the same modelers that fully believe you couldn't kick cars with a GP7, GP9, SD7, or SD9
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 14, 2020 18:00:57 GMT -8
And Walthers STILL thinks that AB sets of diesels were paired for life. I DO wonder what "real metal finish" is. Is it "plating", without using the word "plating/plated"? I guess I should be happy they didn't do the NCL, 'cause it would be personal. With Santa Fe, it's just a subject of conversation. For me. Maybe not for Santa Fe people. Ed Well... you could imagine the BNSF merger happened in 1940 and buy one or both Walthers sets and run them as your "North Coast Chiefs"... *ducks & runs*
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Post by westerntrains on Jul 14, 2020 18:12:47 GMT -8
Really disapointing. Just a rehash of past products.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 14, 2020 19:40:21 GMT -8
]Well... you could imagine the BNSF merger happened in 1940 and buy one or both Walthers sets and run them as your "North Coast Chiefs"... *ducks & runs*
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 20:20:26 GMT -8
Well there goes yet another Walthers disappointment, I mean..."announcement". It's hard to support a company that constantly misses the target on new products. Whether it's in the wrong product line or just the wrong product. Seems the only thing they do exceptionally well is Cornerstone.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 14, 2020 20:31:03 GMT -8
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 14, 2020 21:22:46 GMT -8
Hope springs eternal... Preorders due: tomorrow by lunchtime. Available in ATSF Plated & UP Armour Yellow. NP Loewy green *cancelled*
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Post by mdvle on Jul 15, 2020 1:34:47 GMT -8
Well there goes yet another Walthers disappointment, I mean..."announcement". It's hard to support a company that constantly misses the target on new products. Whether it's in the wrong product line or just the wrong product. Seems the only thing they do exceptionally well is Cornerstone.
Alternatively, you and many on here simply aren't the market Walthers is serving.
It's hard to reconcile "misses the target on new products" and "wrong product line or just the wrong product" with a company that remains in business after all these decades.
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Post by littlejoee76 on Jul 15, 2020 2:00:21 GMT -8
Hope springs eternal... Preorders due: tomorrow by lunchtime. Available in ATSF Plated & UP Armour Yellow. NP Loewy green *cancelled* OUCH- but so true. But even if they did the NCL, would you trust them an inch to get the tones of green correct? Their current interpretation of Loewy greens is bilious. You'd be better off buying undecs and painting them yourself, but I've already done that with Oriental cars so I'm relived they're not doing it. I guess in the current economic climate, conservatism is the rule of the day. Still think the baggage dorm and sleepers for the Oly Hi would be a smart infill and the FP7s are coming later in the year anyway. Neill Horton
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 15, 2020 3:33:50 GMT -8
Well there goes yet another Walthers disappointment, I mean..."announcement". It's hard to support a company that constantly misses the target on new products. Whether it's in the wrong product line or just the wrong product. Seems the only thing they do exceptionally well is Cornerstone.
Alternatively, you and many on here simply aren't the market Walthers is serving.
It's hard to reconcile "misses the target on new products" and "wrong product line or just the wrong product" with a company that remains in business after all these decades.
Odds are at least 50/50 that the preorders are lackluster and Walthers cancels the train altogether...
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Post by brakie on Jul 15, 2020 4:15:35 GMT -8
Alternatively, you and many on here simply aren't the market Walthers is serving.
It's hard to reconcile "misses the target on new products" and "wrong product line or just the wrong product" with a company that remains in business after all these decades.
Odds are at least 50/50 that the preorders are lackluster and Walthers cancels the train altogether... I wouldn't want to gamble either way.. Santa Fe's "war bonnet" scheme has always been popular with modelers and UP seems to be a popular road name. Hey even I like the war bonnet scheme and UP.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 15, 2020 4:29:53 GMT -8
I wouldn't want to gamble either way.. Santa Fe's "war bonnet" scheme has always been popular with modelers and UP seems to be a popular road name. Hey even I like the war bonnet scheme and UP. That probably has something to do with why Walthers keeps coming back to Santa Fe. They are extremely risk averse and prefer to go with that they feel is a pretty sure thing, even if it's ad nauseum.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Jul 15, 2020 4:29:55 GMT -8
Gee, a train I actually rode in the early Amtrak days when ATSF took back their new passenger units and the train had warbonnet F's. Won't be on my Christmas list, tho.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 15, 2020 4:32:33 GMT -8
It will likely be on enough Christmas lists or buy lists to turn a profit however.
Sure, I like the Santa Fe red/silver War Bonnet scheme too. I was even tempted to buy a Genesis F7A at a train show for a paultry $50 but I have more engines than I need as it is. My out of scope D&RGW Grande gold/silver F units are still very pretty so those will have to satisfy my F needs.
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Post by brammy on Jul 15, 2020 4:49:22 GMT -8
I wish when Walthers did the run of the UP excursion trains they also did the observation car with the platform on it.
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Post by drolsen on Jul 15, 2020 4:56:24 GMT -8
Wow, I was going to post a comment when this was still a one page thread, asking if there were any other “new” trains they could do using existing Santa Fe models, but I thought that would have been a bad joke that came across as a bit snarky.
Dave
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 15, 2020 5:27:09 GMT -8
Wow, I was going to post a comment when this was still a one page thread, asking if there were any other “new” trains they could do using existing Santa Fe models, but I thought that would have been a bad joke that came across as a bit snarky. Dave Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instincts. You'd have been 100% right!
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Post by markfj on Jul 15, 2020 5:44:26 GMT -8
This may be a letdown for some, but Walther’s probably had marketing research to back up their decision to release this set. You also have to figure the decision was made many months ago, way before Covid, and they may still be dealing with the delays created by the Affa closure. Santa Fe sells, they have existing tooling, so there ya go!
I can only imagine the difficultly Walthers or any company now has predicting demand and potential sales. Think of the dilemma of trying to figure out if people will buy more because they are at home more (and thus more likely to shop online) or will they buy less because the economy is slow or they lost a job.
Just read that both new and used car sales are up in my part of PA despite high unemployment, so go figure!
Thanks, Mark Reading, PA
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Post by slowfreight on Jul 15, 2020 5:50:25 GMT -8
markfj,
I don't buy that they had any market research. And you can tell on ebay which already-tooled, already-decorated models are in high demand--that would be more market research than most model train manufacturers seem to employ. Releasing single cars in high demand at $100-$120 each, or single cars that just require new paint masks, would seem a way safer bet than a $1400 train.
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Post by riogrande on Jul 15, 2020 5:53:37 GMT -8
I can only imagine the difficultly Walthers or any company now has predicting demand and potential sales. Think of the dilemma of trying to figure out if people will buy more because they are at home more (and thus more likely to shop online) or will they buy less because the economy is slow or they lost a job. Just read that both new and used car sales are up in my part of PA despite high unemployment, so go figure! Thanks, Mark Reading, PA I'm sure these are things most model train companies have to grapple with, however, it seems Walthers is usually more skittish than others what with the oft canceled projects. Add to that the obvious demand for certain Amtrak passenger car models that sell for insane prices on the secondary market yet no sign of them being run.
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Post by gevohogger on Jul 15, 2020 5:55:24 GMT -8
Any market research they DID do probably consisted of "let's offer up another Santa Fe offering every couple years, because they seem to sell well". Which probably took them all of about three seconds to come up with.
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Post by sd80mac on Jul 15, 2020 5:58:11 GMT -8
This train would look awesome behind some Genesis FP45s!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 15, 2020 6:43:16 GMT -8
In Walthers defense (sort of), they have been known to do some neat stuff:
The undec Jordan spreader kit--EXPENSIVE--but I am SO looking forward to playing with it. Someday. Gonna be an SP&S one.
Their single-unit intermodal stuff--G85 and those 60' flats. Sure, they're not Proto. But, being flats, there's not a lot to carve off. Or to see, if you don't do the carving.
Their passenger car trucks, when they're in the mood to run them. Really handy, if yer into passenger cars. I got some of their wood-beam 6-wheelers to put under some Athearn "Palace" cars. One of which is a close stand-in for SP&S 403.
Their E's keep getting improved, incrementally. And slowly. I actually really like my 3 Burlington's I bought a few years ago. Yup, they DID number them in pairs, like the AB's. And YES. They painted them in a later scheme, when the pairs would have long been broken up.
And then there's their GP35. Not done in RF&P yet. It could happen.
Ed
PS: I'll add, for the intermodal, their really nice buncha Flexi-van stuff. I'm sure they did it because of the MILW. Which is fine by me. But I LOVE putting my bright red Burlington one in a train, with two sharp Burlington boxes mounted! Almost burns your eyeballs out.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 15, 2020 7:00:32 GMT -8
The Flexi-vans were beautiful and they had a hard time selling them. I bought a bunch, mostly NYC / P&LE but did get a couple of the others.
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 15, 2020 7:01:58 GMT -8
Seems like Walthers doesn't really have their hearts in doing the name trains anymore, since they're more focused on their Mainline products now and the last few name trains have been rehashes of previous ones.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 15, 2020 7:05:20 GMT -8
markfj, I don't buy that they had any market research. And you can tell on ebay which already-tooled, already-decorated models are in high demand--that would be more market research than most model train manufacturers seem to employ. Releasing single cars in high demand at $100-$120 each, or single cars that just require new paint masks, would seem a way safer bet than a $1400 train. I called up marketing and asked what their research came up with... Behold!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 15, 2020 7:35:12 GMT -8
Behold! I think it needs just one thing: Ed
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Jul 15, 2020 7:37:36 GMT -8
I actually model Santa Fe passenger and I am happy to see this release. However, the prices are absolutely outrageous. $100 for the non-lighted cars and $110 for the lighted ones!? Really??
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Post by riogrande on Jul 15, 2020 7:42:41 GMT -8
The Flexi-vans were neat and tempting but don't think they ran where I am insterested. The Jordan spread is pretty cool. I like the G86 and PS 60' flat cars.
They did a nice SP bloody nose SD9 but didn't make nearly enough of them.
If they rerun the GP35's and include D&RGW with the correct nose, I'll be interested.
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