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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 16, 2020 10:15:30 GMT -8
While not often discussed today, the early-1990s era on CP Rail was a particularly interesting time to be railfanning, especially if you happened to be doing it in the east. There was an awful lot of strange stuff happening including lots of oddball lease power from the US, various ex-US SD40-2s purchased by CP and integrated into their 5400 series, retirements, un-retirements and re-retirements of the last MLW "Big Alcos", blanked-over cab windows, 5500-5600-series SD40-2s, lease of western passenger VIA F40PH-2s for freight service on the Winchester and Bellleville subs, creation of STL&H and much more. I know there are some ARF users who are aware of this very interesting time but I have not seen many who have replicated the mix of equipment in HO. Much of this is possible with models now available on the market, so I figured I would try my hand at one of the last BIG ALCOS with blanked over cab windows and trail-only status. I purchased a Bowser M636 from a sale bin and went right to work "downgrading" it to generally match this appearance. Some modelling photos to follow in this thread if interest is warranted -- please advise! RHS 4721 Jan '95: www.mountainrailway.com/Roster%20Archive/CP%204700/CP%204721-3.jpgCP 4721, MLW M636, B-Unit Status at Bensenville Illinois
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Post by nsfantodd on Aug 16, 2020 10:42:55 GMT -8
Interesting, Look forward to seeing the pics!
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 16, 2020 13:22:13 GMT -8
Alright, at least nsfantodd is interested so I'll get started unless there are any objections. Model disassembled quickly after arrival, forgot to take photos of what it looked like from factory.
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Post by mdvle on Aug 16, 2020 13:59:50 GMT -8
While not often discussed today, the early-1990s era on CP Rail was a particularly interesting time to be railfanning, especially if you happened to be doing it in the east. There was an awful lot of strange stuff happening including lots of oddball lease power from the US, various ex-US SD40-2s purchased by CP and integrated into their 5400 series, retirements, un-retirements and re-retirements of the last MLW "Big Alcos", blanked-over cab windows, 5500-5600-series SD40-2s, lease of western passenger VIA F40PH-2s for freight service on the Winchester and Bellleville subs, creation of STL&H and much more.
For those wanting an excuse for the unusual there is also a published photo of a VIA F40PH-2 being used by CP on a local freight up to Orangeville, which is a minor branchline with maybe 2 return trips a week.
Other than that look forward to seeing this.
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Post by drolsen on Aug 16, 2020 15:11:50 GMT -8
Oh, very cool project! There are a number of prototype subjects that I really like outside of my core interest in CSX. Among them are BN covered hoppers, SP boxcars, UPFE reefers, newsprint boxcars, and CP Rail equipment as both run-through power and foreign (literally) freight cars. As I've mentioned before, I loved seeing CP "bandit" diesel schemes in the mid-'90s on CSX's Capital Subdivision between Baltimore and DC when I was commuting on MARC trains. Can't wait to see how this one turns out!
On a side note, it's both a great opportunity and a little concerning that you found this model in the bargain bin. I love Bowser's recent Canadian models, so I'm concerned for their sales when I see one deeply discounted, but at the same time, it's great to find a good deal on their excellent diesels.
Dave
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 16, 2020 16:25:01 GMT -8
Oh, very cool project! There are a number of prototype subjects that I really like outside of my core interest in CSX. Among them are BN covered hoppers, SP boxcars, UPFE reefers, newsprint boxcars, and CP Rail equipment as both run-through power and foreign (literally) freight cars. As I've mentioned before, I loved seeing CP "bandit" diesel schemes in the mid-'90s on CSX's Capital Subdivision between Baltimore and DC when I was commuting on MARC trains. Can't wait to see how this one turns out! On a side note, it's both a great opportunity and a little concerning that you found this model in the bargain bin. I love Bowser's recent Canadian models, so I'm concerned for their sales when I see one deeply discounted, but at the same time, it's great to find a good deal on their excellent diesels. Dave Hi Dave. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I had a feeling this thread would interest you. You are one of the few posters on here I've seen discussing the EMD CP SD40-2s of the early-1990s. These represented dozens of common units (esp in the east) along with the other odd lease combinations being seen. Note that many of these units (like the M636 that is the topic of this thread) were not set up to lead trains, so consists from this era should mostly be B units with just one or two leaders max. I know there were exceptions. Regarding the junk bin, there are lots of new models hitting the market all the time and I don't think we are all able to absorb them quite as fast as they come. Even newer models come out, pandemics, divorces and job losses hit, people move and the previous models sometimes get forgotten. I didn't need an M636 but since I'm doing my part to social distance, thought it would be a fun project while stuck inside. I have some photos ready to post in this thread, so please stay tuned.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 16, 2020 16:26:13 GMT -8
The photos of both sides of 4721 online were just too cool not to use, so that's the number I chose.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Aug 16, 2020 17:39:20 GMT -8
I always wondered why the wheelbase on the Dofasco trucks seemed so short. I would have thought stretching wheelbase would be easier on track.
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Post by cemr5396 on Aug 16, 2020 18:25:56 GMT -8
Cool project, I never knew CP gave any of the Big Alcos the B-unit treatment. How many did they do it to?
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 16, 2020 19:04:52 GMT -8
^ I don't know exactly how many of the big alcos got this window treatment; CP 4715 and 4718 are two other B-units and possibly 4567 after late 1993. Bowser did not replicate this feature on any of their big alco models like they did with their SD40-2s.
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Post by cemr5396 on Aug 16, 2020 21:15:13 GMT -8
^ I don't know exactly how many of the big alcos got this window treatment; CP 4715 and 4718 are two other B-units and possibly 4567 after late 1993. Bowser did not replicate this feature on any of their big alco models like they did with their SD40-2s. I feel that has something to do with the higher profile and exposure of the Locotrol receiver units. A fairly large dedicated fleet (25 in the 6000s plus some 5700s, I don't remember how many), on a railway already famous as a Locotrol pioneer, where at least one could be seen on nearly every unit coal or grain train to cross the BC mountains during the time period. Did they run mid-train units on the potash trains too back then? I have a friend who may know, I'll ask him next time I see him if I remember. Plus they could be found nearly anywhere on the system if they wandered away from the Prairies. Compare that to seemingly just a handful of Big Alcos which would have stayed in the East close to the Alco haven of St. Luc. Easy for someone less familiar with the Eastern half of the CP system (like myself) to overlook or even be totally unaware of.
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Post by csxt8400 on Aug 16, 2020 23:38:33 GMT -8
While the CP's D&H and other eastern reach isn't a prime interest of mine, I am certainly aware and enjoy perusing photos from that era. A lot of SOO SD40's and Dash 2's wandered out to Binghamton and were also regulars on the CSX with their "bomb trains", of which the CP bigs and some C424's even were found from time to time. The Kalkman's have a lot of CSX stuff from around the B'More area and consequently the CP run-thru's of which I spoke. www.flickr.com/photos/149706553@N05/41267647674/Interesting commentary on the perception of the MLW's by 1992. www.flickr.com/photos/mastadon4935/23958018304/Certainly an interesting model subject and I'll be staying tuned.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 17, 2020 2:40:44 GMT -8
Getting new '1' decals and setting solution ready. Windows have also been removed from the cab.
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Post by markfj on Aug 17, 2020 3:33:12 GMT -8
Neat project! Can you share where the “sale bin” is? Also, how did you remove the forth number on the cab side so neatly?
Thanks, Mark
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Post by stevewagner on Aug 17, 2020 4:35:44 GMT -8
A question for csxt8400: Which CSX trains were nicknamed "bomb trains"?
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Post by nsc39d8 on Aug 17, 2020 5:31:18 GMT -8
Very nice project on a big ALCO/MLW. Love those pictures of the acid train on CSX with two big MLW's bracketing an X-Southern/NS SD40-2.
Will be following along!
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Post by cemr5396 on Aug 17, 2020 5:31:58 GMT -8
Neat project! Can you share where the “sale bin” is? Also, how did you remove the forth number on the cab side so neatly? Thanks, Mark Not sure what he did, but when I renumbered one of my Bowser SD40-2s I used Solvaset, a toothpick, and a Q Tip to remove the numbers. Worked like a charm.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 17, 2020 6:44:16 GMT -8
Neat project! Can you share where the “sale bin” is? Also, how did you remove the forth number on the cab side so neatly? Thanks, Mark Railway City Hobbies, St. Thomas, ON. Cab side number '3' was removed with comet + toothpick method described in July 1994 MR. Here's what the process looked like when I replaced the numbers on a different model with an incorrect font.
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 17, 2020 8:18:24 GMT -8
Seems like in the same period CP was leasing Conrail GP35s (including one in EL paint) they sent the MLWs and stuff to the D&H where they mixed with leasers in purple, in UP colors, in just plain primer. I have pictures of some of that stuff from a couple trips to Binghamton plus some detour trains on the Water Level Route when the Tier was closed for some reason. Trains that in 1992 had to go all the way to Albany up here, as the NYS&W only went to Jamesville NY. I caught those ex-NS B-units a couple of times too.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 17, 2020 9:01:34 GMT -8
Windows were removed from cab to make painting easier. The left two sideframes are also being detailed with what appeared to be PTC journals and cables. Note also the removed cab wipers and wind deflectors.
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Post by csxt8400 on Aug 17, 2020 9:58:56 GMT -8
A question for csxt8400: Which CSX trains were nicknamed "bomb trains"? Now that I look through more of these particular trains, I am seeing more acid references than the classic "bomb" that I mentioned. I know where I work now, that term is rarely used anymore except for some older guys still here. These CP run thru's came down from Montreal via the D&H apparently and terminated in Baltimore. K140 is one of the symbols I have found, with K501 also being mentioned, during the 1992 timeframe.
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Post by drolsen on Aug 17, 2020 11:10:27 GMT -8
While the CP's D&H and other eastern reach isn't a prime interest of mine, I am certainly aware and enjoy perusing photos from that era. A lot of SOO SD40's and Dash 2's wandered out to Binghamton and were also regulars on the CSX with their "bomb trains", of which the CP bigs and some C424's even were found from time to time. The Kalkman's have a lot of CSX stuff from around the B'More area and consequently the CP run-thru's of which I spoke. These CP run thru's came down from Montreal via the D&H apparently and terminated in Baltimore. K140 is one of the symbols I have found, with K501 also being mentioned, during the 1992 timeframe. Those are great photos. I don't know anything about the train symbols of those CP/D&H run throughs, but some of them continued down as far as NC in the '90s. I recall seeing them on the CSX Capital Sub in the '90s, and there are a number of great photos of them passing through Alexandria, VA. It makes sense that some trains would terminate in Baltimore though. I haven't found any photo evidence of the MLW units making it further south. These are examples of why I was so excited to see the Bowser GMD models released: CP 5698 leading Train R403 through Alexandria, VA in February 1996CP 5678 leading NS train 341 south through Catlett, Virginia on April 4, 1996CP 5678 leading NS train 342 through Linwood, North Carolina on April 28, 1996Windows were removed from cab to make painting easier. It's handy that the blanked out windows are a different shade of red (I assume that's fresh CP red) so you don't have to worry about color matching! They look pretty striking in the prototype photo. Looking forward to seeing them installed. Dave
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 17, 2020 13:01:53 GMT -8
Windows reinstalled, notice the nice gaskets. I knew it would be nearly impossible to preserve those if I tried to paint the windows as they came installed. Not a fan of masking. Small touch ups on the gaskets to come shortly. As well, the cast-on vent below the front window has been plated over per prototype practice.
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Post by Judge Doom on Aug 17, 2020 14:14:01 GMT -8
^ I don't know exactly how many of the big alcos got this window treatment; CP 4715 and 4718 are two other B-units and possibly 4567 after late 1993. Bowser did not replicate this feature on any of their big alco models like they did with their SD40-2s. The "Big M" fleet had been retired in December of 1993 (with a ceremony at St. Luc and all), but chronically power-short CP was forced to reactivate some retired units. The B's were done from reactivated units that only ran for 1-2 more years at most (1994/1995) before being re-retired again, so weren't very well-seen. The window glass on them was replaced with plywood cut to fit and painted red. Units I have seen photos of as B's were M630 4511 (with googly eyes drawn on), 4570 (very ratty), and M636's 4715, 4718, 4719 & 4721. The Locotrol Slave SD40-2 units with blanked windows (apparently the window glass itself was just painted over with red on those) lasted far longer, and when the AC4400's replaced them in coal service, the B's wandered far and wide for many years. Some were converted back into A's, but many ran until retirement as B's. On a side note, it's both a great opportunity and a little concerning that you found this model in the bargain bin. I love Bowser's recent Canadian models, so I'm concerned for their sales when I see one deeply discounted, but at the same time, it's great to find a good deal on their excellent diesels. Dave Sometimes it's just a case of a local shop stocking a few too many units, and having trouble moving those last few at MSRP. MB Klein ended up blowing out the second run of their Canadian C630M's at bargain basement prices a number of years back, years before the M636's hit the shelves.
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Post by cemr5396 on Aug 17, 2020 15:40:24 GMT -8
The Locotrol Slave SD40-2 units with blanked windows (apparently the window glass itself was just painted over with red on those) lasted far longer, and when the AC4400's replaced them in coal service, the B's wandered far and wide for many years. Some were converted back into A's, but many ran until retirement as B's. According to a friend who spent 30+ years working in a CP diesel shop, ALL of CP's 'B' units had plywood in the windows. Evidently locomotive window glass was very expensive (we're talking $800 per pane for front windows on an SD40-2), so they were very careful to remove the glass and put it somewhere for safe keeping so they could be re-used in the future if needed. It was simply a cost cutting measure. Those units would never lead, so why would they need window glass, radios, or seats? Most of the B units were restored to leaders in fall 1997 after CP had enough AC4400s to replace them in the mountains. Of 55 units affected (5702-5715, 5758-5772, and 6055-6080) only 17 were left as B units for the remainder of their careers. They were: CP 5704-5706, 5709, 5710, 5758, 5762, 5767-5771, 6056, 6057, 6070, 6074, and 6076.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 17, 2020 16:24:36 GMT -8
I am quite happy with how the painted windows match the prototype "B unit" appearance. I also added a rain gutter and flag bracket which were both missing from the Bowser model. Note the rain gutter on these units appeared nearly straight vs the virtual upside down V found on the GMD SD40-2s.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 17, 2020 20:36:53 GMT -8
The Locotrol Slave SD40-2 units with blanked windows (apparently the window glass itself was just painted over with red on those) lasted far longer, and when the AC4400's replaced them in coal service, the B's wandered far and wide for many years. Some were converted back into A's, but many ran until retirement as B's. According to a friend who spent 30+ years working in a CP diesel shop, ALL of CP's 'B' units had plywood in the windows. Evidently locomotive window glass was very expensive (we're talking $800 per pane for front windows on an SD40-2), so they were very careful to remove the glass and put it somewhere for safe keeping so they could be re-used in the future if needed. It was simply a cost cutting measure. Those units would never lead, so why would they need window glass, radios, or seats? Most of the B units were restored to leaders in fall 1997 after CP had enough AC4400s to replace them in the mountains. Of 55 units affected (5702-5715, 5758-5772, and 6055-6080) only 17 were left as B units for the remainder of their careers. They were: CP 5704-5706, 5709, 5710, 5758, 5762, 5767-5771, 6056, 6057, 6070, 6074, and 6076. I think we've veered a bit off topic here, so I need to clear up a bit of confusion that has arisen. The Locotrol SD40-2s used for mountain service are a different topic altogether to what I am replicating in this thread. Those units were in dedicated service in the far west until the GEs started bumping them after 1995. The receiver units used for mid-train service had their leader equipment removed and windows blanked over in 1991 as a cost cutting measure. Yes, they were later restored as leaders. The Big Alcos that are the topic of this thread followed a different track. The last of these units were famously retired at St Luc in December 1993 as mentioned above. By this time most of the remaining 4 and 6-axle alcos were a feature of the east and the SD40-2s of the west. With the major increase in traffic starting in 1994, about two dozen of the big alcos were un-retired and operated in various types of eastern service until they again began to fail, in some cases fairly quickly. A small number of these units (but not all) had their leader equipment removed and the windows blanked out. CP was leasing up to 200 units at one point in 1994-95 and was challenged in keeping up with demand. These were desperate times and there was no better place to witness this than in the east. Most of these units could not lead and were named 'rent a wrecks' by us foamers. All the good, newer power like the GP38-2s 3000-3135, SD40-2s in the 5694-6080 series plus the red barns remained in western service (with the Locotrol units listed above continuing in dedicated mountain coal, grain and potash as discussed upthread). You can see this by reviewing their assigned maintenance bases in the 1995 trackside guide for example. The VIA F40PH-2s went back to VIA by July 1995. Brand new AC4400CWs (9500-82) joined the fleet in late 1995 and bumped some of the older SD40-2s eastward by which point the remaining big alcos had failed and were all finally retired for good by the end of 1995. The model in this thread is intended to replicate the un-retired 1994-95 version that saw a lot of chasing in places like Binghamton and Smiths Falls and others in the east. Hope this makes sense.
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Post by Judge Doom on Aug 17, 2020 21:17:00 GMT -8
The Locotrol Slave SD40-2 units with blanked windows (apparently the window glass itself was just painted over with red on those) lasted far longer, and when the AC4400's replaced them in coal service, the B's wandered far and wide for many years. Some were converted back into A's, but many ran until retirement as B's. According to a friend who spent 30+ years working in a CP diesel shop, ALL of CP's 'B' units had plywood in the windows. Evidently locomotive window glass was very expensive (we're talking $800 per pane for front windows on an SD40-2), so they were very careful to remove the glass and put it somewhere for safe keeping so they could be re-used in the future if needed. It was simply a cost cutting measure. Those units would never lead, so why would they need window glass, radios, or seats? Most of the B units were restored to leaders in fall 1997 after CP had enough AC4400s to replace them in the mountains. Of 55 units affected (5702-5715, 5758-5772, and 6055-6080) only 17 were left as B units for the remainder of their careers. They were: CP 5704-5706, 5709, 5710, 5758, 5762, 5767-5771, 6056, 6057, 6070, 6074, and 6076. Looks like we have a case of conflicting information. According to "Canadian Diesel Pictorial: Vol.1 : Canadian Pacific SD40 & SD40-2s" (by Fred Clark), the the window glass on the SD40-2 B's was merely painted over with red paint. The unit on Page 34 for example has paint applied hastily to the side windows and over the window frames. Logically, painting over the glass would be much quicker than having to change out all the window panes on each unit for pieces of plywood (that themselves would have to be cut to fit), and it would make re-converting them to leaders easier if needed. Although, it wouldn't surprise me if this was an early practice or temporary practice and over time, some or all had their red-painted glass windows swapped out for plywood as they were shopped. Others have a cleaner install suggesting they might have had the panes changed out. www.cprdieselroster.com/Roster%20Archive/CP%206000/CP%206078-3.jpg Here's an interesting unit, with paint peeling off its side windows exposing what appears to be glass behind. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1856203If one looks closely, they can see the wooden texture on the red window blanks in the Big M's done. www.trainweb.org/galt-stn/cproster/locomotive/4500s/cp4511c.htmFor the record, the first AC4400's started showing up on CP in September 1995, although I don't think I've seen any photos of them running with the big M's (the AC44's were sent west for coal service, so probably either never or very infrequently ran mixed with MLW's in the east).
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 18, 2020 3:22:33 GMT -8
Rear cab windows blanked out as well as horn repainted and relocated to match prototype. All of this fiddling was done before installation of new number decals.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 18, 2020 6:44:21 GMT -8
Entire cab was sprayed with Krylon Matte Finish after decals were set. This provided a dull look that was much more prototypical than the factory model shine.
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