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Post by mdvle on Sept 14, 2020 17:46:11 GMT -8
Rapido September 14th
As usual my scribbled notes and recollections, possible errors.
- LRC coaches - replacement wheels can be purchased for the earlier runs for better performance - dealers can order or should be on Rapido website soon - EP-5 - finally close to production, pantograph should be finished soon with a sample on video following shortly after - EP-5 - much like with the Royal Hudson factory has undergone a learning curve to deal with a pantograph - EP-5 - will have a surprise sound - CPR D10 - 3D printed samples to check clearances done, close to tooling, hopefully samples by end of year - F59PH - Metrolink/TRE order books kept open, will be renewed promotional push for them - GM fishbowls - should arrive by end of year - Amtrak Turboliner - still finishing the drawings but getting close, hopefully tooling by end of the year - Flexi-Flo - arrived in Canada, should arrive Rapido within 2 weeks - production sample photos on website - Flexi-Flo - the yellow photographed badly - 53' containers should arrive within a week - Budd passenger cars - upgrade to HEP - not likely, changes are extensive enough that it would likely mean entirely new tooling - X72 design complete, into tooling queue - B100 - design about 95% done - X31 - tooling shop adding final rivets - repair times have improved dramatically after the Covid shutdowns - H16-44 - joined tooling queue - PA/PB - tooling about to start - NH County Cars - in tooling queue - F7B - production well underway, leave China in October? - FL9 - starting production very soon, hope for arrival in November/December - Amtrak F40PH - awaiting final samples before announcing order deadline - new diesels, passenger cars and freight cars in the works.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Sept 14, 2020 22:14:25 GMT -8
Add: SW1200 - The most popular roads are SP and NH. Rohr Turboliner - the X2000 demo "they think" is a go. X31A - PRRTHS were a big help and have been suggesting other PRR projects to Rapido. NH 8600 coaches, 2nd Run - Probably arriving in November. EP-5 - Will not have operating/moving 3rd rail shoes. I got called out on the Flexi-Flo PC scale test car yellow paint scheme, and then they started thinking of Flexi-Flo cars in NH McGinnis colors... Ugh. And then I apparently fell over dead when Jordan was asked which fallen flag would be want to see return, and he picked the Penn Central. UGH!
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Post by jonklein611 on Sept 15, 2020 5:53:33 GMT -8
Ironic that we get the HEP in N scale, but not in HO (yes I know smaller details so less changes).
I'll have to check my current LRC fleet, might need to order some wheels. (Rapido, if you could make some fancy inner bearing Amtfleet trucks with your snazzy ball bearing LRC truck setup, I'd be eternally grateful) I know it's been asked before, and very unlikely, but it never hurts to ask.
Most of Rapido's sound locos have a fun easter egg or two.
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Post by mdvle on Sept 15, 2020 6:33:15 GMT -8
Ironic that we get the HEP in N scale, but not in HO (yes I know smaller details so less changes). I'll have to check my current LRC fleet, might need to order some wheels. (Rapido, if you could make some fancy inner bearing Amtfleet trucks with your snazzy ball bearing LRC truck setup, I'd be eternally grateful) I know it's been asked before, and very unlikely, but it never hurts to ask. Most of Rapido's sound locos have a fun easter egg or two.
Budd HEP cars in N and not HO - suspect it is more a case of the tooling being designed from the beginning to do both, and if the HO stuff wasn't existing non-HEP tooling the same would happen today for HO.
As for the Amfleets, I wonder if Rapido might surprise with a new tooled version...
(Amtrak 50th, and for many the Amfleets define Amtrak in the north-east just as the Superliners do for other parts of the US - and the trucks/wheels might be enough to make a new tooled model viable despite the existing options).
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Post by jonklein611 on Sept 15, 2020 7:17:47 GMT -8
Budd HEP cars in N and not HO - suspect it is more a case of the tooling being designed from the beginning to do both, and if the HO stuff wasn't existing non-HEP tooling the same would happen today for HO.
As for the Amfleets, I wonder if Rapido might surprise with a new tooled version...
(Amtrak 50th, and for many the Amfleets define Amtrak in the north-east just as the Superliners do for other parts of the US - and the trucks/wheels might be enough to make a new tooled model viable despite the existing options).
Agreed. I've been asking for the HEP version of the Canadian since the original announcement way back in the early Rapido days. I'll gladly take the N version in HEP, no complaints there. I just use some modeling licensing to "say" my HO ones are HEP.
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Post by drolsen on Sept 15, 2020 8:05:52 GMT -8
As for the Amfleets, I wonder if Rapido might surprise with a new tooled version... (Amtrak 50th, and for many the Amfleets define Amtrak in the north-east just as the Superliners do for other parts of the US - and the trucks/wheels might be enough to make a new tooled model viable despite the existing options).
I don't really see Rapido going head-to-head with Walthers' Amfleet models, which are comprehensive (both Amfleet I and II cars produced) and great quality models, just sometimes hard to come by (another run due shortly). However, there's a petition among the members of the Amtrak Modelers group on Facebook for Rapido to produce the new Viewliner baggage car. I'm not sure why the petition doesn't cover the entire Viewliner series of cars, including the original Viewliner I sleepers, because I think those are a much-needed model, since the Walthers version doesn't have an interior. I think it would be smart for Rapido to look at that series of Amtrak cars before Walthers produces another run of their so-so model. With a couple versions of the new Viewliner prototypes hitting the rails, they'll be around for a while in Amtrak service. Dave
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Post by jonklein611 on Sept 15, 2020 9:10:40 GMT -8
I don't really see Rapido going head-to-head with Walthers' Amfleet models, which are comprehensive (both Amfleet I and II cars produced) and great quality models, just sometimes hard to come by (another run due shortly). However, there's a petition among the members of the Amtrak Modelers group on Facebook for Rapido to produce the new Viewliner baggage car. I'm not sure why the petition doesn't cover the entire Viewliner series of cars, including the original Viewliner I sleepers, because I think those are a much-needed model, since the Walthers version doesn't have an interior. I think it would be smart for Rapido to look at that series of Amtrak cars before Walthers produces another run of their so-so model. With a couple versions of the new Viewliner prototypes hitting the rails, they'll be around for a while in Amtrak service. Dave The Walther's Amfleets are fantastic models, I just wish they had fixed the trucks! Mine do not roll at all, and I've followed the advice provided by Walthers.
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Post by rails4dmv on Sept 15, 2020 9:35:23 GMT -8
I don't really see Rapido going head-to-head with Walthers' Amfleet models, which are comprehensive (both Amfleet I and II cars produced) and great quality models, just sometimes hard to come by (another run due shortly). However, there's a petition among the members of the Amtrak Modelers group on Facebook for Rapido to produce the new Viewliner baggage car. I'm not sure why the petition doesn't cover the entire Viewliner series of cars, including the original Viewliner I sleepers, because I think those are a much-needed model, since the Walthers version doesn't have an interior. I think it would be smart for Rapido to look at that series of Amtrak cars before Walthers produces another run of their so-so model. With a couple versions of the new Viewliner prototypes hitting the rails, they'll be around for a while in Amtrak service. Dave The Walther's Amfleets are fantastic models, I just wish they had fixed the trucks! Mine do not roll at all, and I've followed the advice provided by Walthers. Jon, when your out one day, pick up a can of CRC 2-26 Multi Purpose Precision Lubricant from Home Depot or Lowes'. It comes in a 5oz. can, is plastic safe, and improves electrical contact. A friend of mine recommended to me for my Amfleets and it works.
Spray the inside bearing very lightly and run them for about 30 min. to an hour in each direction, and you should be good to go. I found this worked way better than Labelle and it doesn't drip oil on my tracks.
Speaking of Walthers Amfleets, I hope no one is waiting for the second run anytime soon. The next production run which was due Fall 2020, for only Phase III and VI Amfleet I and II coaches, now has either a notice under the picture that states, "Out of Stock, No Info from Vendor" or "Out of Stock, Retired".
+1 for a Viewliner Sleeper, Diner & Baggage Car.
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Post by rails4dmv on Sept 15, 2020 9:43:07 GMT -8
Add: SW1200 - The most popular roads are SP and NH. Rohr Turboliner - the X2000 demo "they think" is a go. X31A - PRRTHS were a big help and have been suggesting other PRR projects to Rapido. NH 8600 coaches, 2nd Run - Probably arriving in November. EP-5 - Will not have operating/moving 3rd rail shoes. I got called out on the Flexi-Flo PC scale test car yellow paint scheme, and then they started thinking of Flexi-Flo cars in NH McGinnis colors... Ugh. And then I apparently fell over dead when Jordan was asked which fallen flag would be want to see return, and he picked the Penn Central. UGH! Paul, do you get any feel if Rapido might be interested in doing the NH Washboards or the NYC/PC/CR/MNRR/LIRR ACMU's down the road?
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Post by jonklein611 on Sept 15, 2020 10:23:12 GMT -8
Jon, when your out one day, pick up a can of CRC 2-26 Multi Purpose Precision Lubricant from Home Depot or Lowes'. It comes in a 5oz. can, is plastic safe, and improves electrical contact. A friend of mine recommended to me for my Amfleets and it works.
Spray the inside bearing very lightly and run them for about 30 min. to an hour in each direction, and you should be good to go. I found this worked way better than Labelle and it doesn't drip oil on my tracks.
Speaking of Walthers Amfleets, I hope no one is waiting for the second run anytime soon. The next production run which was due Fall 2020, for only Phase III and VI Amfleet I and II coaches, now has either a notice under the picture that states, "Out of Stock, No Info from Vendor" or "Out of Stock, Retired".
+1 for a Viewliner Sleeper, Diner & Baggage Car.
Much appreciated!
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Post by slowfreight on Sept 15, 2020 10:38:57 GMT -8
The Walther's Amfleets are fantastic models, I just wish they had fixed the trucks! Mine do not roll at all, and I've followed the advice provided by Walthers. Jon, when your out one day, pick up a can of CRC 2-26 Multi Purpose Precision Lubricant from Home Depot or Lowes'. It comes in a 5oz. can, is plastic safe, and improves electrical contact. A friend of mine recommended to me for my Amfleets and it works.
Spray the inside bearing very lightly and run them for about 30 min. to an hour in each direction, and you should be good to go. I found this worked way better than Labelle and it doesn't drip oil on my tracks.
Speaking of Walthers Amfleets, I hope no one is waiting for the second run anytime soon. The next production run which was due Fall 2020, for only Phase III and VI Amfleet I and II coaches, now has either a notice under the picture that states, "Out of Stock, No Info from Vendor" or "Out of Stock, Retired". +1 for a Viewliner Sleeper, Diner & Baggage Car.
I may try that next, but I had very good success on a few by using dry lube graphite. They can be made to roll better. I would concur that there's no real justification for another manufacturer releasing an Amfleet after the Proto version. I nabbed a total of 9 of them when they could be found, and don't see any major unliveable shortcomings to them. My biggest disappointment is that the food service cars are all lettered Amcafe with no extra decals, when I really need one to be an Amdinette. Meanwhile, verifying correct numbers for Phase I and Phase II paint schemes has proven to be a project unto itself. I agree that things like Turboliners, Viewliners, and bilevels that haven't been done before are more fertile ground for Rapido than warming over something like Amfleet that was done well. The RDCs are anything but warmed over, as the Rapido model is head and shoulders better than the previous Walthers version.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 15, 2020 11:14:34 GMT -8
Before spraying stuff into the Walthers Amfleet trucks, I would suggest fixing the main problem:
There are two trucks on a car. And four wheels on a truck. So there are 8 "bearing points". (I'm betting you already knew that.) For roughly two or three of those bearing points, the plastic stub axle rubs on the sideframe, frequently the top. So the weight of the car is acting like a brake shoe on the axle. Anyone here think that's a good thing?
There are two ways to fix this. You can thin the plastic of the stub axle, or you can open up the sideframe. I chose the latter.
I took apart the trucks to do it (and also to paint the wheel faces). I used a round file to enlarge the bearing retainer (it's a raised lip around where the bearing sits--you remove enough to clear the axle), so as to provide more clearance for the axle. Shrinking the axle diameter would also work, of course. I think someone on the forum went that route, and could have comments.
The model brake shoe assemblies are VERY delicate. I destroyed three, and had to buy replacement trucks. I s'pose I could have tried repair, but it didn't seem worth it.
There was a dramatic improvement in roll-ability. So far, I haven't lubed the bearings, but that will happen before the train "goes out on the road".
I suppose an alternate plan is to "break the trucks in". You can just run them until the rubbing surfaces abrade larger. Of course, as the problem clears up, progress slows. But, someday, it'll be done. I recommend NOT lubing these surfaces, as it will lessen the abrasive action. And probably form an interesting paste.
Now, if you don't care to fix the main problem, spraying a lubricant on the errant surfaces will certainly lessen friction. But not nearly as much as removing the source of friction. And then lubricating the real bearings.
Ed
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Rapido Q&A
Sept 15, 2020 12:33:00 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 12:33:00 GMT -8
I don't really see Rapido going head-to-head with Walthers' Amfleet models, which are comprehensive (both Amfleet I and II cars produced) and great quality models, just sometimes hard to come by (another run due shortly). However, there's a petition among the members of the Amtrak Modelers group on Facebook for Rapido to produce the new Viewliner baggage car. I'm not sure why the petition doesn't cover the entire Viewliner series of cars, including the original Viewliner I sleepers, because I think those are a much-needed model, since the Walthers version doesn't have an interior. I think it would be smart for Rapido to look at that series of Amtrak cars before Walthers produces another run of their so-so model. With a couple versions of the new Viewliner prototypes hitting the rails, they'll be around for a while in Amtrak service. Dave The Walther's Amfleets are fantastic models, I just wish they had fixed the trucks! Mine do not roll at all, and I've followed the advice provided by Walthers. Really, I don't see how you can call a car that doesn't roll "fantastic". Especially here, where we blast Rapido for every little thing 🙄 Personally I prefer my Bachmann ones, because they aren't shelf Queens.
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Post by rails4dmv on Sept 15, 2020 12:53:57 GMT -8
Jon, when your out one day, pick up a can of CRC 2-26 Multi Purpose Precision Lubricant from Home Depot or Lowes'. It comes in a 5oz. can, is plastic safe, and improves electrical contact. A friend of mine recommended to me for my Amfleets and it works.
Spray the inside bearing very lightly and run them for about 30 min. to an hour in each direction, and you should be good to go. I found this worked way better than Labelle and it doesn't drip oil on my tracks.
Speaking of Walthers Amfleets, I hope no one is waiting for the second run anytime soon. The next production run which was due Fall 2020, for only Phase III and VI Amfleet I and II coaches, now has either a notice under the picture that states, "Out of Stock, No Info from Vendor" or "Out of Stock, Retired". +1 for a Viewliner Sleeper, Diner & Baggage Car.
I may try that next, but I had very good success on a few by using dry lube graphite. They can be made to roll better. I would concur that there's no real justification for another manufacturer releasing an Amfleet after the Proto version. I nabbed a total of 9 of them when they could be found, and don't see any major unliveable shortcomings to them. My biggest disappointment is that the food service cars are all lettered Amcafe with no extra decals, when I really need one to be an Amdinette. Meanwhile, verifying correct numbers for Phase I and Phase II paint schemes has proven to be a project unto itself. I agree that things like Turboliners, Viewliners, and bilevels that haven't been done before are more fertile ground for Rapido than warming over something like Amfleet that was done well. The RDCs are anything but warmed over, as the Rapido model is head and shoulders better than the previous Walthers version. Using the CRC 2-26, my AEM-7 or my ACS-64 can now pull 6 Amfleets I with out a struggle on level grade. Having a well weighted locomotive helps also, which is why I'm glad Athearn has announced their next P42 model will be heavier.
+1 if Rapido decides to take on the Amfleets!
I have an axe to grind when it comes to Walthers. Walthers announcements on re-runs on ANYTHING Amtrak seems to happen once every 7 years or longer, IF at all. This next production run of Walthers Amfleets, which I thought might have a been a rerun of ALL the Amfleet paint phases for the 50th Amtrak anniversary, they decide to do only Phase III and VI coaches. So good luck finding any new Walthers Phase I passenger cars to go along with their Phase I FP7A-B, which is out due later this year.
At the most, Walthers could have combined a 2nd rerun of Phase I & II Amtrak El Cap cars since, wait for it, they announced a third run of Santa Fe El Cap cars for their yearly name train!!
And only after Rapido announces their bells & whistles Horizon cars, TWENTY years later and after A LOT of begging and pleading to Walthers from Amtrak railfans, they decide NOW to do a rerun of their Amtrak Horizon cars.
So you can guess what's going to happen. The Rapido Horizon model will sell well, the Walthers version will sell slowly and get discounted & Walthers will come out with an excuse that Amtrak doesn't sell.
And since Bachmann has never done Amfleet II's, they seems to be happy only doing Phase VI Amfleet I models to go with their SC-44 and ACS-64 locomotives.
If I sniff that a Rapido Amfleet is being considered, my Phase VI Amfleets are going up on eBay for $150 each....
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 15, 2020 13:03:07 GMT -8
The Walther's Amfleets are fantastic models, I just wish they had fixed the trucks! Mine do not roll at all, and I've followed the advice provided by Walthers. Really, I don't see how you can call a car that doesn't roll "fantastic". Especially here, where we blast Rapido for every little thing 🙄 Every "little" thing? Tell us about the little things that have been blasted. Ed
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Post by rails4dmv on Sept 15, 2020 13:36:48 GMT -8
Before spraying stuff into the Walthers Amfleet trucks, I would suggest fixing the main problem: There are two trucks on a car. And four wheels on a truck. So there are 8 "bearing points". (I'm betting you already knew that.) For roughly two or three of those bearing points, the plastic stub axle rubs on the sideframe, frequently the top. So the weight of the car is acting like a brake shoe on the axle. Anyone here think that's a good thing? There are two ways to fix this. You can thin the plastic of the stub axle, or you can open up the sideframe. I chose the latter. I took apart the trucks to do it (and also to paint the wheel faces). I used a round file to enlarge the bearing retainer (it's a raised lip around where the bearing sits--you remove enough to clear the axle), so as to provide more clearance for the axle. Shrinking the axle diameter would also work, of course. I think someone on the forum went that route, and could have comments. The model brake shoe assemblies are VERY delicate. I destroyed three, and had to buy replacement trucks. I s'pose I could have tried repair, but it didn't seem worth it. There was a dramatic improvement in roll-ability. So far, I haven't lubed the bearings, but that will happen before the train "goes out on the road". I suppose an alternate plan is to "break the trucks in". You can just run them until the rubbing surfaces abrade larger. Of course, as the problem clears up, progress slows. But, someday, it'll be done. I recommend NOT lubing these surfaces, as it will lessen the abrasive action. And probably form an interesting paste. Now, if you don't care to fix the main problem, spraying a lubricant on the errant surfaces will certainly lessen friction. But not nearly as much as removing the source of friction. And then lubricating the real bearings. Ed Ed, Did you find any of your Amfleet cars to have cracked axles (that black axle that holds the wheels in place)?
The very first set of Amfleets that I received from Walthers, the wheels were bouncing around in their boxes. I contacted Walthers and they sent me brand new replacement wheelsets.
But before I sent Walthers back their broken wheelsets, at their request, I did a thorough inspection of the broken ones. I also noticed, not only were the axles cracked, but that flimsy plastic with 4 tabs that holds the wheels into place, breaks off so easily that the wheel would bounce around in the cradle. If 2 of those tabs break on the same end, the entire wheelset would just fall out if you picked up the car.
I thought of the same thing you suggested to try to get those doggone cars to run the way they were designed. But between brake shoes falling off from handling, cracked axles, and flimsy plastic wheel holders, I decided a better lubricant than Labelle was the better way to go than taken all those wheelsets apart and to start filing.
It's a great design for $84.99. I can't wait to buy more in the 2nd run (sarcasm)!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 15, 2020 14:06:30 GMT -8
No, I didn't have any cracked axles, including the replacement trucks.
The "flimsy plastic with 4 tabs" was indeed scary, but I didn't break any during disassembly. It's been a few months, but my recollection was that I had to pry in just the right place and way, and then it kind of disassembled. Certainly not GREAT, that's a fact. But I didn't have any breakage.
Doing lubrication instead of fixing the problem is sort of like putting lube on brake shoes. Yup, they'll be less effective, but they'll still be there.
I'm a looong way from calling those trucks great. But they came with the car, and I didn't find any replacements that would do better. Perhaps I didn't look well enough, but then all youse guys must not have either.
I've got 4 cars. I'll only ever need 4 cars. I got the trucks the way I want them (less the lube, of course). While the trucks were disassembled, I painted the outer wheel faces. I've got the interiors painted. I've got the mounting for the Sergent couplers ready (gotta build and paint some more Sergents). Except for the couplers and the lube, they're done!
More work than I wanted, but that seems to be true of EVERY project I get involved in.
Ed
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Post by mdvle on Sept 15, 2020 14:54:37 GMT -8
It is hard to reconcile "great quality models" with the general consensus that they run like blocks of concrete with no wheels.
And not being familiar enough, I wonder if the same comments would have been made 2 years ago about Rapido going head-to-head with Walthers on the Horizon cars?
At a guess, they are simply unaware of the cost of tooling and the realities of shared tooling (with perhaps a subset of them not wanting to be encouraged/forced to replace their existing Viewliner fleet).
But as Athearn Matt commented when they addressed this request sometime over the summer doing just the baggage car isn't feasible, and that anyone doing the baggage car would also be doing the other Viewliner cars.
I wonder though if the Viewliners are too new for Rapido, who seem to have a focus on older things.
I think the problem is that the market realities are few passenger car fleets will sell in sufficient quantities to cover the tooling costs of a Rapido/Genesis/ScaleTrains level product, hence the comment by ScaleTrains last month that they aren't really interested in doing anything passenger.
Turboliner is being done, but it was a struggle.
Viewliners - maybe? How much demand is there really for a baggage car? Perhaps the need for a modern version of the other cars in the Viewliner range might tip the balance. (note I think they should be done, but just don't know if there is business case).
California Cars - maybe Athearn, given the comments during their Q&A sessions including the info that people around the US want them.
Budd Gallery Cars - maybe, but is there enough demand for what at a quick search appears to be a Chicago only prototype? Several paint schemes will help, but could be tough unless done to a lower level (think Athearn RTR).
Beyond those what else exist in sufficiently large numbers with wide geographic appeal to justify the costs of tooling?
Hence the suggestion of the Amfleet, and a previous comment that maybe a new Superliner gets done at the same time at the California Cars if there was enough similarities for tooling purposes - though I agree the existing models make both of those problematic.
Note that the Amfleets have a possible advantage that they made it to Toronto, though I am not sure about 1980 (Superliners did also but much later).
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Post by bnsf971 on Sept 15, 2020 15:37:37 GMT -8
Really, I don't see how you can call a car that doesn't roll "fantastic". Especially here, where we blast Rapido for every little thing 🙄 Every "little" thing? Tell us about the little things that have been blasted. Ed Wrong coupler height on a ten year old caboose comes to mind.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 15, 2020 15:46:50 GMT -8
I think you might have a winner there. Wrong coupler height is common enough that it almost shouldn't be mentioned. Almost.
IF something can be fixed by adding three washers, sure, it's wrong, but hardly a big problem. Now on a loco.....
What else?
He DID say EVERY little thing.
Ed
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Sept 15, 2020 17:29:26 GMT -8
rails4dmv, IMHO, NH Washboards are possible, but it might take the NHRHTA chipping in again for Jason to take the risk. The problem with that is that paying a percentage of the tooling costs for an unpowered passenger car is one thing; it's a whole other zip code to pay the same percentage for a self-propelled passenger car (with pans!). OTOH, they were numerous and ran for 20 years in revenue service for both NH and PC for a total of 4 paint schemes (plus oddballs), and a small selection of them ran 'til 1983 in non-revenue service. Better yet, two still exist at the Danbury Railway Museum...available for scanning and measurements. The NHRHTA's involvement in Washboards would probably only take place after we go through the rest of the passenger car fleet (if we can). I'd like to see sleepers, grills, and 10-window Osgood Bradleys, but I'm not holding my breath.
The negative is that the 4400's only ran some 70 miles between GCT/Penn Station and New Haven (with branches). However, sometimes that can work when that area is popular. I know Rob Pisani at Atlas told me they were very pleased with the response they had to the NJT commuter equipment they came out with. So anything's possible.
The other ACMU cars are in the same boat, I would think, but I don't know if they would have the financial backing of any historical group. You'd have to ask those groups.
Ed, I sanded down the Amfleet axles on a friend of mine's cars. I used the old hobby sanding films and partly wrapped them around the axle where it intersects the bearing. Then I ran the truck back and forth, using the rotation of the axle to rub the sanding film to remove material. It worked, eventually. Then I lubed it with 2-26.
As for Rapido "every little thing" bashing, we just had someone state on another thread that Rapido instruction manuals are "stupid". I can't ever recall anyone ever complaining about the instruction manual for any other RTR product line in the history of this hobby.
Rapido was bashed for daring to say that they make better models than their competition. Does that happen elsewhere? Does Ford (or Chevy or Chrysler) get bashed for saying they make better cars?
Rapido has also been knocked for making silly videos and for being flippant. Apparently, only dead serious "Jack Webb" characters are allowed to make and sell model trains. No fun for you!
It's not that Rapido is beyond reproach and can't be criticized. They have clearly made mistakes over the years, but keep it reasonable. Tell the world that the Rapido 1st run RS-11 fan housing is too tall or that the FA-2 is the wrong color but don't turn that into, "That means they don't care about quality!!! They are no better than a toy train set manufacturer!!! I'm going to keep my 40 year old Rivarossi cars and throw my Rapido cars in the trash!!!", etc. Turn down the hyperbole dial a smidge is all I'm saying.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Sept 15, 2020 18:47:07 GMT -8
You must not follow car groups as yes, the Ford/Chevy bashing is pretty strong. Hell, on Facebook I have a friend who posts a Ford bash at least once or twice a week. Most are in jest - like the seats in the tailgate so you have a place to sit while you wait for the tow truck, etc. Probably not the best example but I understand. I know Athearn Genesis has been bashed over the years from poor motors to missing details (doors). Their slogan has been turned in to jests also. I guess it's Rapido's turn. The videos can be over the top, but's it's marketing like I've said before and that's their brand and way to market and they want to control the message - former "deleted member" didn't agree and I guess he left the forum. Instruction manuals can be "stupid" if it's not helpful or covers some other topic, but I didn't read the comment to see if there is any context to the "stupid" comment. If commented and no context, then it's a little thing complaint. Speaking of slogans, there have been some good ones over the years from several manufacturers. rails4dmv, IMHO, NH Washboards are possible, but it might take the NHRHTA chipping in again for Jason to take the risk. The problem with that is that paying a percentage of the tooling costs for an unpowered passenger car is one thing; it's a whole other zip code to pay the same percentage for a self-propelled passenger car (with pans!). OTOH, they were numerous and ran for 20 years in revenue service for both NH and PC for a total of 4 paint schemes (plus oddballs), and a small selection of them ran 'til 1983 in non-revenue service. Better yet, two still exist at the Danbury Railway Museum...available for scanning and measurements. The NHRHTA's involvement in Washboards would probably only take place after we go through the rest of the passenger car fleet (if we can). I'd like to see sleepers, grills, and 10-window Osgood Bradleys, but I'm not holding my breath. The negative is that the 4400's only ran some 70 miles between GCT/Penn Station and New Haven (with branches). However, sometimes that can work when that area is popular. I know Rob Pisani at Atlas told me they were very pleased with the response they had to the NJT commuter equipment they came out with. So anything's possible. The other ACMU cars are in the same boat, I would think, but I don't know if they would have the financial backing of any historical group. You'd have to ask those groups. Ed, I sanded down the Amfleet axles on a friend of mine's cars. I used the old hobby sanding films and partly wrapped them around the axle where it intersects the bearing. Then I ran the truck back and forth, using the rotation of the axle to rub the sanding film to remove material. It worked, eventually. Then I lubed it with 2-26. As for Rapido "every little thing" bashing, we just had someone state on another thread that Rapido instruction manuals are "stupid". I can't ever recall anyone ever complaining about the instruction manual for any other RTR product line in the history of this hobby. Rapido was bashed for daring to say that they make better models than their competition. Does that happen elsewhere? Does Ford (or Chevy or Chrysler) get bashed for saying they make better cars? Rapido has also been knocked for making silly videos and for being flippant. Apparently, only dead serious "Jack Webb" characters are allowed to make and sell model trains. No fun for you! It's not that Rapido is beyond reproach and can't be criticized. They have clearly made mistakes over the years, but keep it reasonable. Tell the world that the Rapido 1st run RS-11 fan housing is too tall or that the FA-2 is the wrong color but don't turn that into, "That means they don't care about quality!!! They are no better than a toy train set manufacturer!!! I'm going to keep my 40 year old Rivarossi cars and throw my Rapido cars in the trash!!!", etc. Turn down the hyperbole dial a smidge is all I'm saying.
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 15, 2020 19:42:28 GMT -8
I have had nothing but Chevrolets since I switched to trucks 20 years ago, save a short lived Dodge, and I curse them and GM engineers out myself nearly every time I have to work on them. I still won't have anything else.
If Rapido models were 20% cheaper I'd have more of them and no complaints. Except for that red on the one LV engine.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 15, 2020 20:59:51 GMT -8
Ed, I sanded down the Amfleet axles on a friend of mine's cars. I used the old hobby sanding films and partly wrapped them around the axle where it intersects the bearing. Then I ran the truck back and forth, using the rotation of the axle to rub the sanding film to remove material. It worked, eventually. Then I lubed it with 2-26. Yes, a good approach. For me, I wanted to take the trucks apart anyway, because then it was easy to put the wheels in my newly acquired wheel-masks. And then running a round file through the sideframes was lickety-split. I think the problem there is that they SAID it, but the commenters felt they didn't DO it. That's not a good look. I agree it's one thing to dislike the videos or the manuals. It's another to go on a public rant about it. What does it hurt if Rapido wants to do these things? I personally find them entertaining. Even if I didn't like them, what's the harm? I DID question their concern with quality when I said that they had everything they needed to do the SP&S locos right, and then didn't do it. Doing such things as applying a generic nose grab arrangement instead of doing it right was done by intent. Someone decided to do it THAT way--the wrong way. And then I'm told on an announcement video how accurately they were done. I had thought these were to be careful recreations of the prototype. They were more in the style of Walthers Mainline. I have no real knowledge why the paint color was wrong; because, as far as I know, Rapido has never said. I am not hyperoble-ing on this. It's a statement of what I see and believe. I have great hope and expectations that Rapido will change for the better in these matters. The SW1200 is looking very good. I expect them to clean up any final problems (like the exhaust stacks) and produce a terrific product. I also expect them to do great work on the next run of RS-11's. Ed
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Sept 15, 2020 21:12:01 GMT -8
Tim, Obviously Ford, Chevy & Chrysler fans bash the competing companies all the time. My point was that Rapido was bashed just because they dared to claim that they made a better product than their competition (which they do). Ford, et al, are bashed for various flaws, real or perceived but I've never heard anyone bash an automaker just because they dared to say their vehicle was better. Sure, they may laugh, snicker, and mock these claims, but no one has said that they can't make any claim of superiority at all like some imply with Rapido. If Rapido says, "We're making superior models compared to others!", some seem to think, "They can't say that! How dare they? They need to shut up!" I don't know who the deleted member was. I saw that and thought it strange. Could have been a shill, sure, but it could have also been a troll or sock puppet account from another forum member. With Rapido, I don't think they left to "control the message" as some say. I think they were just sick and tired of being bashed for some really petty reasons. Seriously, who would want to hang around with a dedicated group of people trying to make their lives miserable day after day? Does that sound healthy to you? The "stupid manuals" quote was recent, and revolved around the idea that Rapido should stop making videos and "stupid manuals" because somehow that would cause the factory in China to cease making mistakes.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Sept 15, 2020 21:43:12 GMT -8
(Sorry for double posting but Ed's reply came in as I was typing my last one)
Ed, The Rapido models have been better than their competition. Not perfect, true enough, but better doesn't mean perfect; it just means better and I think that gets lost here. Take the Rapido RS-11. It has flaws (the radiator fan, for example) but it's still better than the Atlas or the P1K models.
A WalthersMainline comparison, really? The brand that has no grab irons, MU hoses, cut levers, no sand lines, no brake chains, no see-through grills, no lit numberboards, no working groundlights, no working class lights, and so on. Even the flawed Rapido SP&S FA is better than a WalthersMainline model. If the paint color is a mistake (and I have no reason to doubt you), that's a bad error and I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for being disappointed and not buying them. Rapido came up short there, but they aren't WalthersMainline-type quality, either.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 15, 2020 22:10:01 GMT -8
Paul,
The real problem is those words you used: flaws, flawed
Being the best SP&S FA, it still had 9 detailing failures and the wrong paint. THAT'S something to be proud of? I was gonna buy three. It didn't happen for those reasons.
I put it in the Mainline category because I'm just not that impressed. There might have been a better choice of term.
I will repeat: I love my FL9's. I love my F40PH. I hope to love my RS-11's and SW1200's. But in between those, Rapido really dropped the ball with the RDC's and the FA-2's I ordered. I hope they pick it up.
Ed
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Post by jonklein611 on Sept 16, 2020 3:52:10 GMT -8
The Walther's Amfleets are fantastic models, I just wish they had fixed the trucks! Mine do not roll at all, and I've followed the advice provided by Walthers. Really, I don't see how you can call a car that doesn't roll "fantastic". Especially here, where we blast Rapido for every little thing 🙄 Personally I prefer my Bachmann ones, because they aren't shelf Queens. I should have been more clear in my statement. They LOOK fantastic, but do not perform well. Thanks to all that have posted tips / hints to improve the rolling characteristics of the cars. Personally, I wish Walthers had put ball bearings in like Rapido did. To get back to the main thread, Rapido was guilty of claiming "we scanned the real thing, we're crazy and we'll make it all 100% right!" on quite a few models, then later realizing that some variations were not profitable (tooling costs too high, not enough pre-orders, etc.) and they quietly backpedaled on the accuracy claim. Managing customer expectations is huge in this industry, especially when you're known as the "crazy accurate" company. In their more recent announcements, I've noticed they have changed the wording a bit, and specify which road / unit specific details they are concentrating on vs. claiming all details will be 100% correct. That all said, I fully understand that at the end of the day, it's a business that needs to make a profit to survive. Jason and company aren't doing this for kick and giggles (well sometimes they do), they are doing it to make a living. As we model 1:87 shrunk versions of the real thing, there will ALWAYS be some level of compromise in the design / construction of a specific model. Additionally, I have found Rapido very open to input or correction of errors (if you contact them directly) IF it makes sense to make the fix. Just because you point out something, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to get fixed by any manufacturer. If you're looking for more exacting road specific details, join up with fellow interested modelers and fund the project (like the New Haven guys do, or push enough folks into pre orders to show the demand).
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Sept 16, 2020 6:50:48 GMT -8
Paul, The only Rapido product that I currently own is one of the first-run 3800 covered hopper which has droopy end cages - a model design flaw. I understand they redesigned the car for future runs to address this issue. When I looked at it for detail, I would compare it to an Intermountain car like the PS 4750 which was first produced, in the 90s I believe? In that regard it is not a better product than their competition which I would want to believe you'd agree also - though no one else makes a 3800 so I guess it wins by default. Now since we're mainly discussing locomotives I do have a Rapido SW1200 on order and look forward to receiving it. There is the Walthers P2K SW1200 to compare it to and I look forward to doing just that once I receive it. From what I've seen spotting features on the pre-production models are mixed for finer detail or having a spotting feature or still missing a spotting feature. I haven't seen clear images of the Rapido SW1200 radiator fan or grill area. I was expecting it to be high detail, but I'm prepared to replace it with KV parts if warranted. I agree on your reason for why Rapido left. It would be good if they came back and any other manufacturer would also. I do send my recommendations for improvements to the manufacturers. I also agree with jonklein611 comment on quietly backpedaled on the accuracy claim - which I wish they would have stated opening - specifically on the B36-7 notifying customers they made a compromise thus allowing customers to decide to order or not. Their marketing is evolving as jonklein611 stated and I feel that's a good thing - more honest and not hyperbole. Tim, Obviously Ford, Chevy & Chrysler fans bash the competing companies all the time. My point was that Rapido was bashed just because they dared to claim that they made a better product than their competition (which they do). Ford, et al, are bashed for various flaws, real or perceived but I've never heard anyone bash an automaker just because they dared to say their vehicle was better. Sure, they may laugh, snicker, and mock these claims, but no one has said that they can't make any claim of superiority at all like some imply with Rapido. If Rapido says, "We're making superior models compared to others!", some seem to think, "They can't say that! How dare they? They need to shut up!" I don't know who the deleted member was. I saw that and thought it strange. Could have been a shill, sure, but it could have also been a troll or sock puppet account from another forum member. With Rapido, I don't think they left to "control the message" as some say. I think they were just sick and tired of being bashed for some really petty reasons. Seriously, who would want to hang around with a dedicated group of people trying to make their lives miserable day after day? Does that sound healthy to you? The "stupid manuals" quote was recent, and revolved around the idea that Rapido should stop making videos and "stupid manuals" because somehow that would cause the factory in China to cease making mistakes.
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Post by littlejoee76 on Sept 16, 2020 9:50:35 GMT -8
Surprise sound in the EP5: the dry rustle of Patrick B McGinnis rolling in his grave? Neill
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