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Post by riogrande on Oct 3, 2021 12:19:55 GMT -8
Some of the posts may have been deleted. No, some of the threads were horrendous and cumulatively the reason we won't see Rapido posting here for a long time.
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Post by gevohogger on Oct 3, 2021 13:22:21 GMT -8
Rapido making a GP30 with thick handrails, incorrect grill etchings, oversized treadplate, incorrect colors, and no DRGW nose light option would be HILARIOUS. It would set all right with the universe, I do believe. Only then would we see a lot of crow being devoured. That would be just their style. They'd find some random ex-D&RGW GP30 in a museum somewhere, make a 3-D scan of it, lavishly illustrate their website with photos of it and include some vintage in-service photos too, promise 100% accuracy... And then release the model with no nose light. Because that's exactly what they did with the CSX B36-7.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2021 13:30:53 GMT -8
I read ALL 26 PAGES of these two topics.
No one attacked Rapido employees. No one expressed hatred for Rapido, or their employees. No posts were horrendous.
A lot of comments about Rapido were pretty sharp edged, but they did not extend to the personal.
There WAS a lot of nastiness between some/many forum members. And it was NOT all from the CSX crew.
I found NOTHING in those two topics that would justify Rapido quitting this forum in a justified huff.
I found it sad that one of our member kept asking about whether the tread pattern on the SW1200 was going to be coarse, and no one answered from Rapido. I am here to tell that member: YES!
Ed
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Post by jonklein611 on Oct 3, 2021 13:33:49 GMT -8
I read ALL 26 PAGES of these two topics. No one attacked Rapido employees. No one expressed hatred for Rapido, or their employees. No posts were horrendous. A lot of comments about Rapido were pretty sharp edged, but they did not extend to the personal. There WAS a lot of nastiness between some/many forum members. And it was NOT all from the CSX crew. I found NOTHING in those two topics that would justify Rapido quitting this forum in a justified huff. Ed Some of the hateful posts were removed by system admins.
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Post by sd80mac on Oct 3, 2021 13:37:28 GMT -8
Meanwhile, I tried a search for the B36-7 "discussion", and I'm not turning it up. Anyone have a link? I'd like to read what was actually said, rather than it being recalled. I'm starting to think it wasn't as toxic as some like to recall it as. I do clearly remember a "meme" someone made that was hilarious. "Santa Fe pays the bills around here!"Oh, it definitely was. Some people here are truly miserable, it seems. We get. Rapido purposefully went out of their way to wrong you. Grow up.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2021 13:40:40 GMT -8
Some of the hateful posts were removed by system admins. Hey, Donnell. Did you remove hateful posts from these two topics? Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2021 13:45:53 GMT -8
Oh, it definitely was. Some people here are truly miserable, it seems. We get. Rapido purposefully went out of their way to wrong you. Grow up. No, I don't think that is true. There WAS a good bit of criticism of Rapido's choices. But I found no hint that anyone thought Rapido "purposefully went out of their way to wrong" anyone. The majority of anger was between members of this forum. Ed
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Post by sd80mac on Oct 3, 2021 14:59:24 GMT -8
Oh, it definitely was. Some people here are truly miserable, it seems. We get. Rapido purposefully went out of their way to wrong you. Grow up. Give Dave Abeles our warmest regards. Who?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2021 15:40:24 GMT -8
I went to the Rapido website, and tried to find out more about this problem with the F40PH phase III paint. You know, the Official News.
Couldn't find anything. Strange.
Is there some reason that this rather important information is not on their website? Is this another example of Rapido's "failure to communicate"?
Or am I just really bad at cruising websites?
Had a few minutes doin' nuthin', and I found the Rapido video. Works for me, as the guy said. Glad they caught it early!
Ed
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Post by pboilermaker on Oct 3, 2021 15:42:11 GMT -8
Basic takeaway bullet-point from this seems to be, it is easy to dismiss concerns about a mediocre execution of a long-awaited model as “toxic”, “over the top”, etc. and maybe write a 500-word essay trying to excuse/justify it, until it is a model that YOU are interested in. Haven't posted here in a while, but some here seem to have shared sentiments, so I feel the need to vent a bit. The situation did get nasty with the B36 and it didn't have to. It's a two way street, and there will be compromises on these models - there has to be. Let's face it- there's no "perfect" model. This leads to the irritation that I have. While I have no interest in a B36-7, I can tell you that nose is a glaring error and we will never hear about it. It's a very well detailed model, not "perfect," but well detailed and a nice execution.
I was a bit irritated by the "unboxing" F40 video where the stripe issue was almost made into a joke. The overlooked, an non-stated elephant in the room on that mistake was that this exact paint job/pad print, was successfully completed on two F40 runs prior to this. These are identical stripes, paint and units with the same lines. From a production perspective, this would seem to show an inconsistency or lack of standardized repository. The larger the item that has become common place for this company is the artwork not matching the product. Most of these items could be avoided if they produced production samples. Those cost money and take a bit of time, but can save you money and ire in the future (as in the case of this "stripe" issue). This would have been able to be corrected BEFORE it was run and produced. For some odd reason, Rapido has clearly never done production samples.
I received my MBTA production F40 yesterday. It contains one tooling mistake that can't be corrected without major surgery and this is present on all of the NJT/MBTA (phase III) models (photo below). Yes, sure, it's "trivial" in the eyes of some (what isn't?), but this is on drawings and there are photos of this everywhere. It's a simple thing that could have been corrected and wasn't. Additionally, the wrong exhaust silencer hatch was placed on the model (a part that is shared by others on this run) and the ghetto grills for the unit were never done. Rather, included are ones from the phase I units in the parts bag (yes, the artwork on the site shows correct ones).
For the amount of money one spends on these models, this is just frustrating. The artwork shows one thing, we're told "pre-production, there will be revisions" then when things arrive, the artwork, which was correct, gets revised to something that isn't' correct (again, there's a chance to correct these things with production samples).
There are plenty of oddities and dimension issues on the phase I F40, and some of us hoped they would be corrected this time around. The photos shown of production models, displays that they were not.
Here's something that I don't think some may see at certain companies:
We (as a community) know you're people and people aren't perfect. We make mistakes. But does anyone know of another manufacturer that preaches perfection? No. Degrees of accuracy, yes.
For me, I'd rather dimensional accuracy and some detail, so I'd go for 50% less of the underside details for the sake of getting larger items correct and possibly saving a few $$ in the process. Whoa...the Q-fan recess is way off! That is not trivial in the least. Only 'easy' way to fix that is to drill/cut out the whole radiator fan panel and reconstruct the recess correctly with styrene.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2021 17:00:20 GMT -8
Why is it that no one wants to lean over railings to get great roof shots of F40PH's? Here's a quite decent one, from the side: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4856380And the drawwwinnnngggg is the WINNNNNEEERRRRRRRR!!!!! Rapido biting off more than they can chew, I guess. I see that Rapido also missed the "three little pigs", over to the left. SO glad I was planning on the earlier version. So far. Ed
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Post by NS4122 on Oct 3, 2021 17:59:54 GMT -8
Dave Abeles is a Conrail modeler whose "Onondaga Cutoff" layout has been featured in model RR magazines. He also posts photos on Trainorders. No clue on what he has to do with any of this. Give Dave Abeles our warmest regards. Who?
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Post by pboilermaker on Oct 3, 2021 18:15:17 GMT -8
Why is it that no one wants to lean over railings to get great roof shots of F40PH's? Here's a quite decent one, from the side: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4856380And the drawwwinnnngggg is the WINNNNNEEERRRRRRRR!!!!! Rapido biting off more than they can chew, I guess. I see that Rapido also missed the "three little pigs", over to the left. SO glad I was planning on the earlier version. So far. Ed It is not just the commuter scheme Q Fan recesses that are issues. Another non-trivial issue...all of these Later Phase units shipped with the early truck sideframes featuring the older, closed Hyatt journal covers instead of the open bearings shown in the artwork, pre-production samples, and prototype photos. This is even more puzzling/frustrating since the correct open bearing truck sideframes were included in the Modernized F40PH/Cabbage release (they were correctly tooled already). At a minimum, CSX, AMT, Agawa Canyon, Ski Train, and Ditch Light Amtrak Ph III all have the wrong (early) sideframes.
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Post by jonklein611 on Oct 3, 2021 18:32:26 GMT -8
Why is it that no one wants to lean over railings to get great roof shots of F40PH's? Here's a quite decent one, from the side: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4856380And the drawwwinnnngggg is the WINNNNNEEERRRRRRRR!!!!! Rapido biting off more than they can chew, I guess. I see that Rapido also missed the "three little pigs", over to the left. SO glad I was planning on the earlier version. So far. Ed It is not just the commuter scheme Q Fan recesses that are issues. Another non-trivial issue...all of these Later Phase units shipped with the early truck sideframes featuring the older, closed Hyatt journal covers instead of the open bearings shown in the artwork, pre-production samples, and prototype photos. This is even more puzzling/frustrating since the correct open bearing truck sideframes were included in the Modernized F40PH/Cabbage release (they were correctly tooled already). At a minimum, CSX, AMT, Agawa Canyon, Ski Train, and Ditch Light Amtrak Ph III all have the wrong (early) sideframes.Q fan issue was present on the preproduction / paint samples: Not sure on the truck detail because your photo won't load on my connection (firewall issues), but here's the ones from their website:
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Post by pboilermaker on Oct 3, 2021 18:56:14 GMT -8
Not sure on the truck detail because your photo won't load on my connection (firewall issues), but here's the ones from their website: Correct, that is a pre-production photo and I agree, it has the proper sideframes. That is what I was expecting, but that is not what was produced. Here is a production photo from Rapido showing what is shipping to customers: Also note that the recently posted video (where Jason talks about the Ph III stripe error) clearly shows that all production units were made with the earlier incorrect sideframes (Hyatt journal covers). I have received only one of the units I pre-ordered and it has the incorrect sideframes, confirming the above.
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Post by fr8kar on Oct 3, 2021 19:13:41 GMT -8
Looking at all these unforced errors reminds of being a Texas Rangers fan late in the season. Or early in the season, take your pick.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 3, 2021 19:34:14 GMT -8
This is GREAT!
While my locos are being held back so as to get the proper paint, they can ALSO be held back to get the proper sideframes.
Jason said they'll have a mini-production line at Rapido World Headquarters to take care of the paint. They can do the sideframes at the same time.
I'm all right, Jack!
Ed
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Post by westerntrains on Oct 3, 2021 23:33:22 GMT -8
pbase.com/tom_murray/image/172016141[/div][/quote] Whoa...the Q-fan recess is way off! That is not trivial in the least. Only 'easy' way to fix that is to drill/cut out the whole radiator fan panel and reconstruct the recess correctly with styrene. [/quote] This is amazing!
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Post by markfj on Oct 4, 2021 3:44:25 GMT -8
I was going to suggest that if someone had access to a mill they could at least fix the triangular parts that are orientated the wrong way. But there are so many other noticeable issues that it would be better to mill out the whole recess area and start from scratch.
I empathize with those who are disappointed and slightly angered over this issue. Thanks, Mark
PS: Great post TMurray! Your comments are really on point.
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Post by astrosa on Oct 4, 2021 4:57:57 GMT -8
I see that Rapido also missed the "three little pigs", over to the left. Just as an FYI, the "three little pigs" are actually icicle breaker mounts that were specific to the Amtrak version depicted in the drawings. As far as I know, those were not present on the MBTA and NJT versions, but otherwise those units shared the same radiator hatch arrangement as the post-1980 Amtrak units.
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Post by gevohogger on Oct 4, 2021 5:44:30 GMT -8
Whoa...the Q-fan recess is way off! That is not trivial in the least. Only 'easy' way to fix that is to drill/cut out the whole radiator fan panel and reconstruct the recess correctly with styrene. And if you count the rivets... The Rapido has too many along the long sides of the fan area. 14 vs. 13.
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Post by pboilermaker on Oct 4, 2021 6:54:30 GMT -8
Whoa...the Q-fan recess is way off! That is not trivial in the least. Only 'easy' way to fix that is to drill/cut out the whole radiator fan panel and reconstruct the recess correctly with styrene. And if you count the rivets... The Rapido has too many along the long sides of the fan area. 14 vs. 13. In for a penny, in for a pound.
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Post by markfj on Oct 4, 2021 8:26:48 GMT -8
In looking again at the drawing of the fans and the errors on the model, I’m wondering if the mistakes happened because the person doing the CAD design used something like a Mirror command and simply assumed the long sides of the recessed fan area were identical. The Mirror command is common to most CAD software and allows the designer to sketch only one side of an object and use the command to copy a mirror image of the sketch. It’s a great time saver “if” the object being sketched is identical on both sides.
For the fan mistake, the designer must have just inserted the fans on a different layer in the design and again made an assumption that the fans were all orientated in the same direction. It could also be a mistake in the assembly instructions at the factory (assuming the fans are a separate assembly from the body).
Thanks, Mark
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 4, 2021 8:41:57 GMT -8
The side that is correctly oriented also has the "funny shapes" not right: mis-shaped and mis-located.
Way too much assuming, way too little looking.
Ed
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Post by cera2254 on Oct 4, 2021 9:35:36 GMT -8
Just makes you wonder, you’d think they would have someone there watching assembly and reviewing everything…
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Post by jonklein611 on Oct 4, 2021 10:07:40 GMT -8
Just makes you wonder, you’d think they would have someone there watching assembly and reviewing everything… In normal times they would send staff over to China to check in on things throughout the project. I imagine COVID related travel restrictions have prevented those in person visits. This doesn't excuse the mistakes present in the models. It seems as if the operating mode needs to shift. More samples and inspection / feedback periods would be helpful. 360 photos posted online of those samples would also assist in interested parties providing input at a time when changes can actually be made. We've seen similar type errors on other releases from Rapido and from other manufacturers. Athearn's drive truck issue, and others. The ARR crowd was not amused about Athearn's latest release of the SD-70MACs which did not include the north star graphic on the side of the loco. It's clear that inspection processes need to change to reflect the lack of in person sign offs prior to shipment / release of products.
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Post by drsvelte on Oct 4, 2021 10:19:08 GMT -8
What a keen observation; lots of value added.
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Post by pboilermaker on Oct 4, 2021 10:31:16 GMT -8
These really needed to be included on this run as this error affects the majority of units from this run, unlike the commuter unit fan hatch. It is not very easy, economical, or neat to convert sideframes to have open bearings where necessary (Ski Train, CSX, Agawa Canyon, AMT, and Amtrak Ph III with ditch lights). - The correct truck sideframes were present in all images of these units all the way up through preproduction samples. - The correct tooling already exists and was used on a previous run (Modernized F40PH/Cabbage). - A change was inexplicably made at a late stage and they reverted to the as-delivered sideframes for production.
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Post by unittrain on Oct 4, 2021 12:08:11 GMT -8
Anybody using Tik Tok? Never been on it however another model railroader said Scale Trains and Rapido are starting to accuse some of the criticism of the models as hate speech! Please say we're not coming to this point in the hobby goodness. Everything is going crazy these days.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Oct 4, 2021 12:27:54 GMT -8
Also not on Tik Tok, but if someone has a link showing this is true, I’d like to see it - and also what they consider hate speech. Anybody using Tik Tok? Never been on it however another model railroader said Scale Trains and Rapido are starting to accuse some of the criticism of the models as hate speech! Please say we're not coming to this point in the hobby goodness. Everything is going crazy these days.
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