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Post by mdvle on Mar 8, 2021 17:47:21 GMT -8
Jordan also has an interest in Penn Central I seem to recall, and there are a bunch of employees who we aren't aware of their personal favourites or equally as important era.
But I would point out that they have done things that don't really seem to fall under employee favourite - the NP boxcar for example or some of the recent PRR cars.
But as (I think it was Bill) was made clear you don't have to work for them to get a model done - offer Rapido(*) a full package of drawings and quality photos (that show all the various angles) and they will seriously consider your pitch. Because often one of the most difficult part of a project is finding the necessary research materials(**).
So if the Erie fans, or fans of a railroad perhaps not (yet) covered by them, or a historical society, have a project that you think will be a good idea then consider doing the legwork and creating a package that can be provided to a manufacturer. While it won't be a guarantee it will be made (there will still be a judgement by any of the manufacturers whether they can sell enough to recoup the costs) as indicated they will consider any viable project that involves less research effort on their part.
Now obviously don't spend years prepping a package for a freight car that only had 3 built and only lasted in service for 18 months (as an exaggerated example of a product that wouldn't sell enough), and perhaps create a broad summary of why you think an item would be attractive for RTR to submit for some feedback prior to putting any significant time or money into research and collecting material.
(how many historical societies are sitting on material that could be used to make a model, but it is all hidden in boxes/rooms left either uncatalogued or they don't let the outside world know it's in their collection...)
* - I believe Athearn and perhaps others have made this point as well.
** - hence Jason's plea for help from anyone with drawings for CN's Balloon top passenger cars
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Post by lars on Mar 8, 2021 18:13:50 GMT -8
Just curious here, is there any sort of precedent for compensation if a design package makes it to production?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 8, 2021 20:04:07 GMT -8
Just curious here, is there any sort of precedent for compensation if a design package makes it to production? I have reason to believe there is. Since this is a case-by-case kind of thing, I think you can negotiate your own "deal". Or have your agent do it. Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 8, 2021 20:27:48 GMT -8
Jordan also has an interest in Penn Central I seem to recall, and there are a bunch of employees who we aren't aware of their personal favourites or equally as important era. But I would point out that they have done things that don't really seem to fall under employee favourite - the NP boxcar for example or some of the recent PRR cars. You left out the New Haven. Well, there is that old profit motive, that can get us to think outside the box. It can also help to have all the hard research done by someone else, and then get it all handed to one with a nice bow. And then there can be certain financial incentives. I don't know how many are sitting on material. Perhaps some kind of poll could be arranged. I do know that it takes just a bit of work to go through that material, and it's usually done for free. I suggest you go out to all the historical societies and make them STOP sitting on material. That would be done by your doing some sort of cheer leading or whatever it takes to energize old guys to work faster. You DO want to be part of the solution, right? I also see an interesting view from manufacturers and importers that the historical societies are the absolute knowers of truth. Thus North Bank Line, for their latest offerings, said that they would use the railroad colors supplied by the historical societies. Well, that sorta kinda gets NBL off the hook (WE did what the official knowers of truth said to do. WE'RE in the clear.). Unless the societies are wrong. Well, yeah, I've seen 'em be wrong. Ed
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Post by amtk1007 on Mar 9, 2021 3:45:05 GMT -8
I do know that this was the case for one of Rapido's projects. A proposal complete with drawings and photos of all variations was provided and the people that provided the proposal package then provided additional research as required. Jordan also has an interest in Penn Central I seem to recall, and there are a bunch of employees who we aren't aware of their personal favourites or equally as important era. But I would point out that they have done things that don't really seem to fall under employee favourite - the NP boxcar for example or some of the recent PRR cars. But as (I think it was Bill) was made clear you don't have to work for them to get a model done - offer Rapido(*) a full package of drawings and quality photos (that show all the various angles) and they will seriously consider your pitch. Because often one of the most difficult part of a project is finding the necessary research materials(**). So if the Erie fans, or fans of a railroad perhaps not (yet) covered by them, or a historical society, have a project that you think will be a good idea then consider doing the legwork and creating a package that can be provided to a manufacturer. While it won't be a guarantee it will be made (there will still be a judgement by any of the manufacturers whether they can sell enough to recoup the costs) as indicated they will consider any viable project that involves less research effort on their part. Now obviously don't spend years prepping a package for a freight car that only had 3 built and only lasted in service for 18 months (as an exaggerated example of a product that wouldn't sell enough), and perhaps create a broad summary of why you think an item would be attractive for RTR to submit for some feedback prior to putting any significant time or money into research and collecting material. (how many historical societies are sitting on material that could be used to make a model, but it is all hidden in boxes/rooms left either uncatalogued or they don't let the outside world know it's in their collection...) * - I believe Athearn and perhaps others have made this point as well. ** - hence Jason's plea for help from anyone with drawings for CN's Balloon top passenger cars
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Post by mdvle on Mar 9, 2021 9:57:33 GMT -8
Jordan also has an interest in Penn Central I seem to recall, and there are a bunch of employees who we aren't aware of their personal favourites or equally as important era. But I would point out that they have done things that don't really seem to fall under employee favourite - the NP boxcar for example or some of the recent PRR cars. You left out the New Haven. Well, there is that old profit motive, that can get us to think outside the box. It can also help to have all the hard research done by someone else, and then get it all handed to one with a nice bow. And then there can be certain financial incentives. I don't know how many are sitting on material. Perhaps some kind of poll could be arranged. I do know that it takes just a bit of work to go through that material, and it's usually done for free. I suggest you go out to all the historical societies and make them STOP sitting on material. That would be done by your doing some sort of cheer leading or whatever it takes to energize old guys to work faster. You DO want to be part of the solution, right? I also see an interesting view from manufacturers and importers that the historical societies are the absolute knowers of truth. Thus North Bank Line, for their latest offerings, said that they would use the railroad colors supplied by the historical societies. Well, that sorta kinda gets NBL off the hook (WE did what the official knowers of truth said to do. WE'RE in the clear.). Unless the societies are wrong. Well, yeah, I've seen 'em be wrong. Ed
I wasn't intending to criticize the historical societies - collecting the material is relatively easy assuming there is space to store it.
The hard part is actually working through all the stuff and documenting/cataloging what is there - and digitizing it is another major effort. And unless there is a very generous benefactor who is willing to pay for a staff, that involves a lot of volunteer hours and I know from first hand experience volunteering for minor hockey in the past that very few people are willing to donate their time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2021 17:53:23 GMT -8
Yeah, with brass models the industry standard is the person who develops the research package typically receives one factory painted loco. However, the amount of research can easily be 1000 hours.
So, yeah, in plastic maybe you could negotiate for a few units? But a serious package takes some serious development time.
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Post by lars on Mar 10, 2021 4:22:22 GMT -8
I don’t think I would be willing to “give” a manufacturer half a year of labor worth probably $35-40k worth of salary and fringe for a few products to take home. That feels like a very one sided deal to me.
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Post by mdvle on Mar 10, 2021 4:40:21 GMT -8
Well, Rapido's new product suggestion system has gone online as announced on their Twitter feed.
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Post by amtk1007 on Mar 10, 2021 4:41:15 GMT -8
I don’t think I would be willing to “give” a manufacturer half a year of labor worth probably $35-40k worth of salary and fringe for a few products to take home. That feels like a very one sided deal to me. To each his own. In the projects I have been involved in, I have been happy to provide my assistance because it has lead to quality products.
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Post by mdvle on Mar 10, 2021 4:47:07 GMT -8
I don’t think I would be willing to “give” a manufacturer half a year of labor worth probably $35-40k worth of salary and fringe for a few products to take home. That feels like a very one sided deal to me.
To a large extent it is about getting a prototype that you really want in model form done without relying on the random chance that a manufacturer does it anyway - and it of course helps if you can approach it as a case of enjoying the challenge and process of the research required as part of the hobby rather than as a job.
It won't be for everyone, but it is worth while to some.
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Post by lars on Mar 10, 2021 5:44:45 GMT -8
I get that for some it is a labor of love, but to look at it from a different perspective, if I were a manufacturer I would feel like a huge piece of crap if I knew that someone was coming to me with hundreds or 1000+ hours of work and I gave him/her peanuts in return. I would want to at least try to fairly compensate them because it’s the right thing to do.
The manufactures in this industry have this rather unique ability to exploit people’s passions when getting “their” favorite item to market and I really dislike it when it comes to fruition in the form of expectations that consumers should not criticize their work, put up with poor quality, or offer their time and knowledge without being treated fairly in return.
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Post by amtk1007 on Mar 10, 2021 6:06:22 GMT -8
I don’t think I would be willing to “give” a manufacturer half a year of labor worth probably $35-40k worth of salary and fringe for a few products to take home. That feels like a very one sided deal to me. To a large extent it is about getting a prototype that you really want in model form done without relying on the random chance that a manufacturer does it anyway - and it of course helps if you can approach it as a case of enjoying the challenge and process of the research required as part of the hobby rather than as a job. It won't be for everyone, but it is worth while to some.
Spot on sir.
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Post by amtk1007 on Mar 10, 2021 7:18:38 GMT -8
I get that for some it is a labor of love, but to look at it from a different perspective, if I were a manufacturer I would feel like a huge piece of crap if I knew that someone what coming to me with hundreds or 1000+ hours of work and I gave him/her peanuts in return. I would want to at least try to fairly compensate them because it’s the right thing to do. The manufactures in this industry have this rather unique ability to exploit people’s passions when getting “their” favorite item to market and I really dislike it when it comes to fruition in the form of expectations that consumers should not criticize their work, put up with poor quality, or offer their time and knowledge without being treated fairly in return. Very fair statements, and I respect your opinion. You are correct that this industry tends to abuse those that offer to help, some manufactures are worse then others. In many cases, the people (but not all) that partake in the external research have limited expectations in return. Perhaps the project is something that they were planning to scratch build some day and the have previously done the research, perhaps they just enjoy the research side of the hobby, perhaps they are experts on the equipment from having worked with it in real life. In any case, if they are going into it with realistic expectations, then there should not be an issue. I was happy to assist in the last project I was involved in and am proud that my participation produced a high quality product that everyone seems pleased with... Sort of a sense of Pride.. In my case I am happy with that, and yes I did purchase a quantity of the models produced.
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Post by lvrr325 on Mar 10, 2021 15:08:32 GMT -8
If the Army Reserve place down the road would let me in their now mostly empty yard I could get a ton of info on the old Sea-Land 35 foot containers that somebody could use toward making them. I'm not even sure how many years those are good for though.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 10, 2021 17:44:39 GMT -8
If the Army Reserve place down the road would let me in their now mostly empty yard I could get a ton of info on the old Sea-Land 35 foot containers that somebody could use toward making them. I'm not even sure how many years those are good for though. The August 1971 and the March 1988 Official Intermodal Equipment Register both show Sea-Land having 35' containers. I doubt they lasted much later. Ed
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ras
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Post by ras on Mar 11, 2021 13:21:34 GMT -8
I get that for some it is a labor of love, but to look at it from a different perspective, if I were a manufacturer I would feel like a huge piece of crap if I knew that someone what coming to me with hundreds or 1000+ hours of work and I gave him/her peanuts in return. I would want to at least try to fairly compensate them because it’s the right thing to do. The manufactures in this industry have this rather unique ability to exploit people’s passions when getting “their” favorite item to market and I really dislike it when it comes to fruition in the form of expectations that consumers should not criticize their work, put up with poor quality, or offer their time and knowledge without being treated fairly in return. Very fair statements, and I respect your opinion. You are correct that this industry tends to abuse those that offer to help, some manufactures are worse then others. In many cases, the people (but not all) that partake in the external research have limited expectations in return. Perhaps the project is something that they were planning to scratch build some day and the have previously done the research, perhaps they just enjoy the research side of the hobby, perhaps they are experts on the equipment from having worked with it in real life. In any case, if they are going into it with realistic expectations, then there should not be an issue. I was happy to assist in the last project I was involved in and am proud that my participation produced a high quality product that everyone seems pleased with... Sort of a sense of Pride.. In my case I am happy with that, and yes I did purchase a quantity of the models produced. I second what amtk1007 said... I've helped in various ways on a number of projects, in varying capacities, for a number of companies. I don't do it to make money - I have a "real job" that provides just fine there. Like most labors of love, the hourly rate for projects is often a pittance. But more importantly, it's enjoyable to be able to help bring a product to market that is of personal interest, and to a level that hopefully helps make a successful product. I expect literally nothing in return when I offer help. If manufacturers choose to offer something in return, that's great. If not, that's ok too, as it's their choice. Either way I end up with a model that's hopefully closer to prototype fidelity that I can enjoy. There are many easier ways to make money in the world than helping build model trains. But most of those things aren't as much fun.... -Rick Selby
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Post by lvrr325 on Mar 12, 2021 2:04:52 GMT -8
If the Army Reserve place down the road would let me in their now mostly empty yard I could get a ton of info on the old Sea-Land 35 foot containers that somebody could use toward making them. I'm not even sure how many years those are good for though. The August 1971 and the March 1988 Official Intermodal Equipment Register both show Sea-Land having 35' containers. I doubt they lasted much later. Ed They were a staple on LV Apollo intermodal trains for years. Then they got sold off, I could have actually bought one a few years ago from a school district where it had been used for storage. The state highway facility had one for a while, too, but it vanished and wasn't auctioned so I presume scrapped. And for whatever reason this Army Reserve facility has three in their storage lot. Almost all your intermodal stuff is modern era, be nice to have one or two 70s specific examples. Preferably at a price that owning 20 or 30 doesn't require taking on a second job.
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Post by mdvle on Mar 12, 2021 16:26:35 GMT -8
Great. They have several months to fix the lettering on the side of the UP E's (see below). And to raise the fuel fillers up onto the sides (something I didn't know about until pointed out recently). Ed (For those who care: On the E's, UP side lettering ("UNION PACIFIC") started out having "O"s and "C"s as round circles. Pretty classy, really. About 1960, they changed them to oval profile (like "regular" tall O's). Thing is, the rest of the model is mostly done as a mid-sixties to seventies version. So I think the side lettering should be era appropriate.)
So does the changes announced in the current newsletter solve your issues?
(see the quoting of the newsletter here on the forum for those who aren't on the email list)
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 12, 2021 18:17:04 GMT -8
So does the changes announced in the current newsletter solve your issues? (see the quoting of the newsletter here on the forum for those who aren't on the email list) Strangely, it doesn't. They did a lot of changes, including changing the lettering, as I requested. Unfortunately, I believe IN THIS CASE they should NOT have changed the lettering, as it would have been correct for the era they are now pursuing. Ed
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 13, 2021 12:32:49 GMT -8
I just read a quote from a Rapido newsletter where they say they are doing the E's that were PAINTED between June 1956 and January of 1959. So they will not be representative of the typical UP E's of that period, since there weren't a lot that were "freshly" painted.
However, they might well be (sort of) typical of a time period LATER. That might work out very nicely for me, since I am interested in ones for 1960, where they would have been more common. One thing then to add is UNION PACIFIC on the nose.
In simple: I think I can work with these, and expect to be ordering 3. Don't yet know if it'll be ABA or ABB. Have to think on that.
Ed
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Post by mdvle on Apr 9, 2021 12:45:02 GMT -8
Put it here because I don't think it requires a dedicated thread, Rapido just released newsletter 137 and it's all about a new N scale freight car. The only thing that may be of interest to non-N scalers is their new selection of swag, including several designs for shirts, hoodies, face masks, and some coffee/tea mugs - Rapido isn't actually stocking these things directly, they are using a 3rd party service that makes on demand and ships from the US or EU.
Rapid Swag store
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Post by mdvle on Apr 14, 2021 13:12:14 GMT -8
From their Twitter feed:
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Post by mdvle on Apr 14, 2021 17:20:13 GMT -8
Rapido Trains - Q&A - April 14th 2021
A rambling, often off topic, but fun almost 2 hours with lots of non-model train stories.
recording available on Facebook, an edited version will be put on YouTube at some point.
- Alco fans, get your PA orders in by tomorrow if you want to show the EMD fans who's the boss (the E8 is easily outselling the PA) - top selling roadnames (not in order) - SP, SF, Rio Grande - PA, SW1200 biggest seller for each is SP - PA - Freedom Train - only has 50% of required orders so far, they hope dealer orders as they come in over the next couple of days will make it possible. - reminder - the PA was switched to using an ESU sound decoder, ESU fans who ordered DC can still switch. - B-100-40 - still looking for photos of two more road numbers to go with the 4 announced in SP/UP Shield repaint - possibility of a free car if you can come up with one of the 2 needed numbers - Rapido TCS decoder - still in the works, just not ready yet - more cabooses - yes - several cars they would like to do but don't have complete drawings, particularly underbody. - GM fish bowl buses - left factory, about a month away. - buses - factory never wants to do buses again, but Rapido will do buses again but likely with a higher retail price - SWAG - CP Rail pacman best selling - undecorated FL9's - due to an order error they have lots available, possibility of a discount if order multiples - Jason thinks Rapido and Athearn should photobomb each others live streams - CC&F coaches / E-Series Sleeper rerun - likely in a couple of years - Turboliner samples - hopefully about 6 weeks - Jason wants a muppet version of Jordan for videos - container shortage in China has caused shipping problems - VIA Historical Association - Rapido donated all of their VIA equipment, VHA will have it own YouTube channel soon - new product request form - 1,000 request so far, but over 400 suggestions - leading request so far is the GP40TC with a huge 3 requests - post Covid plan is to have all the Rapido staff take the VIA Rail Ocean, once booked would likely make it public for others to try and book same trip if they wanted.
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Post by mdvle on Apr 16, 2021 11:09:56 GMT -8
Rapido have posted the video to YouTube with the following description: YouTube link
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Post by drolsen on May 1, 2021 10:08:34 GMT -8
FYI, PWRS sent out this information from Rapido about a price increase for the bi-level commuter cars in the the West Coast Express scheme. I'm guessing this was from a Rapido email update, but I don't seem to get their newsletter for some reason (I'm pretty sure I was signed up for it at some point). Looks like it adds $5 per single car and $20 for the 3-car sets. Apparently the price increase is a result of the cost of the license required to produce the scheme:
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Post by mdvle on May 1, 2021 10:15:54 GMT -8
Sounds from the wording like an email that was sent out to anyone who ordered any WCE items from the Rapido website (hence the HO Scale Customers introduction) and to dealers.
They don't appear to have sent out a general email as I haven't received a newsletter or email since the last newsletter.
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Post by mdvle on May 13, 2021 12:38:50 GMT -8
Next Q&A is tonight at 7pm EDT on Facebook, discuss today's announcements, etc.
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Post by mdvle on May 13, 2021 16:33:44 GMT -8
Rapido Facebook Live - May 13th 2021 - 2 products arriving next month as surprises, pay attention to the newsletter if you want to be sure to have a chance at getting them - ATSF Reefer in tooling - RS-18u and RSC-14 - samples should be soonish - Turboliner in tooling - samples hopefully end of June / early July - more freight cars coming, including more modern stuff - tank car sales exceeded expectations - in background of Matt's image - modular layout he is building of a AutoFlood III coal loading facility... - more stuff coming in weeks ahead to the swag store - E8 - in tooling - F59PH - only paint schemes still at risk are the Metrolink ribbon and as delivered, order deadline June 15th - Bilevels roll very well, they kept rolling away when pictures were being taken apparently.
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Post by migalyto on May 14, 2021 14:37:47 GMT -8
Any guesses at what the suprise arrivals will be?
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