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Post by mdvle on Oct 30, 2020 15:39:15 GMT -8
I also added Chicago Metra Nippon Sharyo cars. Didn't think to add the MP36 locomotive. They would probably sell a ton of these!
Re: the MP36 - while it has never been confirmed the suspicion is that the MP36/MP40 project is what put TrueLine Trains into cash flow problems, and eventually out of business.
Now it could be that TrueLine was simply too soon to market, but I suspect it would give most manufacturers a cause to hesitate (unless they pick up the TrueLine tooling at a good price).
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Oct 30, 2020 18:29:21 GMT -8
mdvle,
I don't think it was necessarily the MP36 that did in TLT. One of the first things they did, the CN U-2-g 4-8-4, was probably not the best choice due to the very high expense (for the times) and the improbable demand for a 2nd run (and that's where the real money is). They also had some lingering QC problems coming out of China. The 5-axle NH C-Liners arrived with the wrong number of roof fans and they had to re-run all the NH shells. A bunch of 4-axle DCC/Sound C-Liners came without sound decoders so each one had to be opened, checked, and a decoder installed if needed. They also had a run of cars arrive in North America without any couplers at all, so they had to sit down and install several thousand of them. The two particulars at TLT each went through a divorce during all this, and one of them lost his "real" job and had to work retail just to pay his rent. All of this used up a lot of time they could have spent researching, drawing, and financing new product. TLT did have some self-inflicted issues, but a lot of it was outside of their direct control.
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Post by severn on Oct 31, 2020 6:26:44 GMT -8
I think the new acela could be cool if it included sounds and the front nose folded open like I saw in a pic of the real thing for ... Maybe station sounds ... is that too much to ask?
How about the doors open in the passenger cars with a whoosh sound and the interiors are done enough to be believable?
I know your gonna say that sounds expensive. So that's my last wish ... That it's not.
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Post by mdvle on Oct 31, 2020 6:40:57 GMT -8
mdvle, I don't think it was necessarily the MP36 that did in TLT. One of the first things they did, the CN U-2-g 4-8-4, was probably not the best choice due to the very high expense (for the times) and the improbable demand for a 2nd run (and that's where the real money is). They also had some lingering QC problems coming out of China. The 5-axle NH C-Liners arrived with the wrong number of roof fans and they had to re-run all the NH shells. A bunch of 4-axle DCC/Sound C-Liners came without sound decoders so each one had to be opened, checked, and a decoder installed if needed. They also had a run of cars arrive in North America without any couplers at all, so they had to sit down and install several thousand of them. The two particulars at TLT each went through a divorce during all this, and one of them lost his "real" job and had to work retail just to pay his rent. All of this used up a lot of time they could have spent researching, drawing, and financing new product. TLT did have some self-inflicted issues, but a lot of it was outside of their direct control.
They certainly had other issues, but at the time (before online forums were big) the Canadian modeling email list was asked about improving the sales of the MP40 and would more people buy it if they tooled up better than Athearn Bombardier bi-levels. That was a clear indication that the MP36/40 wasn't selling/as popular as expected.
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Post by slowfreight on Oct 31, 2020 6:58:05 GMT -8
mdvle, I don't think it was necessarily the MP36 that did in TLT. One of the first things they did, the CN U-2-g 4-8-4, was probably not the best choice due to the very high expense (for the times) and the improbable demand for a 2nd run (and that's where the real money is). They also had some lingering QC problems coming out of China. The 5-axle NH C-Liners arrived with the wrong number of roof fans and they had to re-run all the NH shells. A bunch of 4-axle DCC/Sound C-Liners came without sound decoders so each one had to be opened, checked, and a decoder installed if needed. They also had a run of cars arrive in North America without any couplers at all, so they had to sit down and install several thousand of them. The two particulars at TLT each went through a divorce during all this, and one of them lost his "real" job and had to work retail just to pay his rent. All of this used up a lot of time they could have spent researching, drawing, and financing new product. TLT did have some self-inflicted issues, but a lot of it was outside of their direct control. They certainly had other issues, but at the time (before online forums were big) the Canadian modeling email list was asked about improving the sales of the MP40 and would more people buy it if they tooled up better than Athearn Bombardier bi-levels. That was a clear indication that the MP36/40 wasn't selling/as popular as expected.
Unfortunately, it appears there's great interest now for another run of the MP36. I bought one on a blowout clearance at M.B. Klein when they could be had, but now the prices have skyrocketed for those seeking another. It sounds like they were strugging to find a reliable manufacturing partner, which is not unusual. So in that regard, IF you could find the tooling, it may not be in good enough shape to do a second run. |
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Oct 31, 2020 16:23:28 GMT -8
I voted for the AC4400 and SD70MAC, but those models are both going to need a lot more than "factory-installed handrails" to bring them up to current day standards. Kato was great 20 years ago, but the bar has risen considerably. I have a set of the Kato SD 70 MAC's that are 17 years old. At the time...I added the Microscale diesel decals for CSX and painted the step edges yellow. I remember having an open house in November of 2003 and folks asked if they were brass. As far as details go...they don't hold a candle to a Genesis or Scale Trains modern loco...but...back then they were very nice. As far as running goes...these Kato's are still unmatched for quiet, slow-speed and smooth operation. I too would like to see a ready to run, updated version of these models. |
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Post by GP40P-2 on Oct 31, 2020 17:05:05 GMT -8
The SD38-2 is the only thing that I could really "use", and I suspect that a Scale Trains version is a just matter of time.
Soooooo, I put a vote in for the E5, just way cool.
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Post by rockfan on Nov 1, 2020 4:45:05 GMT -8
Glad to see Kato hasn't forgotten about us in HO. I voted for the E5, hoping they will make other E units in the future and I emailed them about making Budd cab and coach commuter cars.
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Post by drolsen on Nov 1, 2020 8:49:56 GMT -8
CSX AC4400CW that is what I want. I'm really torn on this. I'm surprised that they never produced the CSX version in HO, and 5 or 6 years ago, I probably would have bought a bunch (I need about 8 for my future layout plans). If they offered an undecorated CSX version, I'd probably still buy some, but I think it's only a matter of time before ScaleTrains produces the AC4400CW series. Even then, I'm not sure how I feel about the see-through grills on ScaleTrains' Rivet Counter GEs - they remind me of old OMI brass with their heavy, oversized screen material, getting the see-through effect at the expense of prototypical appearance. Aside from SD50s and CW40-8s, CW44ACs are probably the most important CSX road diesel for me. Decisions... |
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Post by stevewagner on Nov 1, 2020 10:14:37 GMT -8
I voted for the E5 for reasons similar to rockfan's.
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Post by espeenut on Nov 1, 2020 20:42:56 GMT -8
I voted for the AC4400CW, ES44AC and the SD70ACe. I have quite a collection of Kato locomotives and I still think they are some of the finest HO scale locomotives made. On the updated versions there is no way the railings look like "sewer pipes", plus the fact the stay put and aren't wavy like wet spaghetti noodles. I don't model time periods that can utilize the E5 and Zephyr and I don't model modern commuter or passenger so those aren't on my radar. I've seen the new ST GE models and the screens are a complete turnoff along with extremely wavy handrailings. The Kato's I have are all bullet proof runners and I would welcome any of the choices I voted for.
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 2, 2020 5:57:05 GMT -8
I am hopeful that maybe the poll will lead to two things: One, an all-new model from Kato, and secondly, a re-tooled version of one of the other locomotives listed. The poll seems to have several examples of each category. If the end goal was just to re-tool an existing model, why list nuggets like the Zephyr and Charger and E5? And vice-versa.
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Post by jonklein611 on Nov 2, 2020 6:08:30 GMT -8
I voted for the AC4400 and SD70MAC, but those models are both going to need a lot more than "factory-installed handrails" to bring them up to current day standards. Kato was great 20 years ago, but the bar has risen considerably. I have a set of the Kato SD 70 MAC's that are 17 years old. At the time...I added the Microscale diesel decals for CSX and painted the step edges yellow. I remember having an open house in November of 2003 and folks asked if they were brass. As far as details go...they don't hold a candle to a Genesis or Scale Trains modern loco...but...back then they were very nice. As far as running goes...these Kato's are still unmatched for quiet, slow-speed and smooth operation. I too would like to see a ready to run, updated version of these models. I've got a set of them in Alaska scheme. I've hardly touched them (other than DCC + sounds) and they still run like tanks. |
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Nov 2, 2020 8:15:11 GMT -8
Sent a complimentary request to the Kato survey for a comparable Genesis level GE U Boat line. U-25-C, U-33-C, U-36-C & U-34-CH. Chime In Guys. I did too! But added the C30-7/36-7 |
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 2, 2020 8:36:20 GMT -8
On the updated versions there is no way the railings look like "sewer pipes", plus the fact the stay put and aren't wavy like wet spaghetti noodles. Other than the AC4400 and Dash 9, Kato's handrails are grossly oversized. And funny enough, my Kato AC4400 has the worst case of wavy handrail disease out of all my locomotive fleet. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 2, 2020 8:57:38 GMT -8
Honestly, does anyone here think a new and improved Kato AC4400/C44-9W or brand new ES44/SD70ACe/SD70MAC/(insert suggestion here) would compare to the higher end models we are seeing from other companies?
We simply aren't going to see 'Genesis level' anything from Kato, IMO. They've never shown an inclination to go in that direction, and I don't see that changing now. Even in N scale, which has been Kato's main focus for years, their models fall short in detail compared to their contemporaries.
A year or two ago I would have been all over an improved AC4400 from Kato, because there wasn't a better option. But now, with Athearn Genesis and Scale Trains versions looming on the horizon, I'll just wait for those. Unless ST makes big improvements to the screens and windshields of their GEs, I'm leaning towards Genesis on those for the moment.
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Post by drolsen on Nov 2, 2020 10:45:21 GMT -8
A year or two ago I would have been all over an improved AC4400 from Kato, because there wasn't a better option. But now, with Athearn Genesis and Scale Trains versions looming on the horizon, I'll just wait for those. Unless ST makes big improvements to the screens and windshields of their GEs, I'm leaning towards Genesis on those for the moment. I think I must have missed that. Did Athearn mention in one of their recent talk sessions that they're going to upgrade the AC4400CW to the Genesis line? I'm wary of Athearn's past CSX releases, in terms of how they executed some of the paint colors, but I'd certainly like to have a better detailed model. The benefit of the Kato model, in my opinion, is that you get a fantastic drive and a good quality shell that serve as a solid base for additional detailing. Since Details West and a few other manufacturers have some excellent detail parts from back in the Athearn Blue Box days, you could have everything you need to build an excellent model. The issue for me is doing it 6-8 times, to build the CSX CW44AC fleet that I'd like to have. Kato's diesels also leave a lot to be desired with their pilot designs, with the giant, strange-looking buffer around the coupler box, requiring a rebuild of the pilot face. The Details West website still has their old but excellent example of how their parts can be used to build a highly-detailed AC4400CW: Details West AC4400CW Modeling InfoDave |
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 2, 2020 11:42:59 GMT -8
I think I must have missed that. Did Athearn mention in one of their recent talk sessions that they're going to upgrade the AC4400CW to the Genesis line? Dave It was brought up during the Genesis Dash-9 live announcement. Several people had asked why not an AC4400 and they said that given the Dash9 had already provided most of what they would need, we would most likely see a Genesis AC4400 in the near future, after a run or two of Dash 9s. They didn't say it was 110% guaranteed to happen, but it's highly probable. I'd have to watch the whole thing again to remember exactly what was said. |
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Post by mdvle on Nov 2, 2020 12:39:16 GMT -8
I think I must have missed that. Did Athearn mention in one of their recent talk sessions that they're going to upgrade the AC4400CW to the Genesis line? Dave It was brought up during the Genesis Dash-9 live announcement. Several people had asked why not an AC4400 and they said that given the Dash9 had already provided most of what they would need, we would most likely see a Genesis AC4400 in the near future, after a run or two of Dash 9s. They didn't say it was 110% guaranteed to happen, but it's highly probable. I'd have to watch the whole thing again to remember exactly what was said.
Sounds very much like what I remember.
The AC4400's are still recent enough, and ran in enough numbers, that I would guess a new Genesis 2.0 model would be justified from an Athearn investment perspective.
(for those who want to look, it would have been the July 31st special live session on Athearn's YouTube page).
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