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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 3, 2020 16:08:18 GMT -8
Bachmann has made an "American" type 4-4-0 steam loco for years. They have wisely kept up with their model and upgraded the tooling and everything else, including this very nice item #51005 PRR 566 model which has a speaker and sound option. I am very impressed by the gorgeous Civil War era 4-4-0s that were around back then and wanted something for my early-1900s era interests. I have mentioned before this (1860-1910) is a generally overlooked era, but there are indeed some exceptionally talented modellers recreating various years during this span of time. While I cannot compete with them on any level, I simply decided to try my hand at an early Canadian Pacific 4-4-0. I'll just show just a few photos of my completed model only over the next few days. The idea was to not need to do a full repaint on this and so here is the black model I started with:
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Post by Christian on Nov 4, 2020 4:48:08 GMT -8
No one can accuse you of being tightly focused on an era!
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 4, 2020 5:23:06 GMT -8
No one can accuse you of being tightly focused on an era!
What do you do when almost everything you want (and more) from your regular era has been well done in RTR plastic? All my stuff has been weathered and tweaked and I'm not interested in building a layout. As a guy who likes building/buying/displaying equipment I would have been sitting here twiddling my thumbs for the past 5 years if I stuck to my own era. LOL
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Post by Christian on Nov 4, 2020 6:29:32 GMT -8
Just yanking your chain! I've flirted with Civil War modeling since my first visit to Gettysburg a long time ago. As a souvenir of that trip, I got a Mantua General and a "tank" car. I added some other Mantua cars - loop couplers at that time. I built a metal kit for a four truck sleeper and also a wood something. Then I discovered narrow gauge which kept me happy for many, many years. The General and cars went to a landfill and by now are molecules. Your locomotive is light years beyond what I had and I want to see what you are going to do.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 4, 2020 10:51:50 GMT -8
Although I prefer the original look of these engines without the post-1900 knuckle couplers, that presents some operational challenges. In this case the model had castings for knuckle type couplers and I decided to use those and date this circa 1908. Prototype CPR 349 appeared quite similar to the Bachmann model in many ways.
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Post by Christian on Nov 4, 2020 11:12:46 GMT -8
That's a very pretty picture.
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Post by edgecrusher on Nov 4, 2020 12:36:26 GMT -8
Very nice, its hard to believe that started as a Bachmann loco.
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 4, 2020 19:41:31 GMT -8
Just yanking your chain! I've flirted with Civil War modeling since my first visit to Gettysburg a long time ago. As a souvenir of that trip, I got a Mantua General and a "tank" car. I added some other Mantua cars - loop couplers at that time. I built a metal kit for a four truck sleeper and also a wood something. Then I discovered narrow gauge which kept me happy for many, many years. The General and cars went to a landfill and by now are molecules. Your locomotive is light years beyond what I had and I want to see what you are going to do. Never ceases to amaze me what people toss out. Those Generals bring around $40 pretty regular if they're all there.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 5, 2020 4:13:00 GMT -8
View of the left side. Unfortunately, this Bachmann paint scheme does not include the nice piece of ornamentation between the two driver wheels and under the sill. If I can manage to track down the part, I'll add it later as the prototype had it in the pre-1900 photo I followed for this project. I wonder if anyone makes an etching but what is that thing even called?
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Post by Christian on Nov 5, 2020 7:48:10 GMT -8
View of the left side. Unfortunately, this Bachmann paint scheme does not include the nice piece of ornamentation between the two driver wheels and under the sill. I just looked at a whole bunch of CP American Standard locomotives and saw lots of interesting stuff, but nothing I'd call ornamental. The earlier ones had steam brake rigging. In the air brake era, the locomotives had some visible driver equalization levers which are sorta simulated on the Bachmann. The most common and striking to a USA viewer were the fenders over the drivers on most/all that I saw.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 5, 2020 8:01:34 GMT -8
View of the left side. Unfortunately, this Bachmann paint scheme does not include the nice piece of ornamentation between the two driver wheels and under the sill. I just looked at a whole bunch of CP American Standard locomotives and saw lots of interesting stuff, but nothing I'd call ornamental. The earlier ones had steam brake rigging. In the air brake era, the locomotives had some visible driver equalization levers which are sorta simulated on the Bachmann. The most common and striking to a USA viewer were the fenders over the drivers on most/all that I saw. Ah crap, you're totally right. I didn't notice those fenders but now I see them on every single photo. Sigh. OK I guess some wide, thin styrene strip would work for those. AFA the ornamentation, here you can see it beside the fenders lacking on the PRR version I used. I have since learned these are available separetely as "logo" parts, though the fenders are part of the underbody shell.
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Post by cp6027 on Nov 5, 2020 9:02:36 GMT -8
Very nice! I've often toyed with the idea of turning one of these into a PDC #3 stand-in to have the odd excursion on my layout. The modernized version of the Bachmann 4-4-0 might be a better starting point since the cab and some of the appliances are a better match for its modern-day appearance, but it really has a strange mix of the new and old. But overall pretty far down on my list of projects!
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Post by GrandeGould on Nov 5, 2020 10:11:54 GMT -8
The decorative "logo" piece that you are referring to is actually a builder's plate. In the 1860s they were generally placed between the drivers or on the steam chest of the cylinders. By the late 1870s most locomotive builders had moved to what we normally consider to be the "normal" place - the smokebox side. The Bachmann models are loosely the Dayton and Inyo built for the Virginia & Truckee; The Inyo was a Baldwin, and the Dayton was built by Central Pacific's shops in Sacramento - the Bachmann piece is a very poor representation of either plate, which featured monograms of the two companies' initials in the center circle.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 5, 2020 10:59:23 GMT -8
The decorative "logo" piece that you are referring to is actually a builder's plate. In the 1860s they were generally placed between the drivers or on the steam chest of the cylinders. By the late 1870s most locomotive builders had moved to what we normally consider to be the "normal" place - the smokebox side. The Bachmann models are loosely the Dayton and Inyo built for the Virginia & Truckee; The Inyo was a Baldwin, and the Dayton was built by Central Pacific's shops in Sacramento - the Bachmann piece is a very poor representation of either plate, which featured monograms of the two companies' initials in the center circle.
Thanks for this. Good to know that was a builder's plate and appreciate the background on the Bachmann model. It looks like my model has some smaller simulated plates on the extended smokebox sides.
Do you know of any sources for aftermarket parts for the plates and fenders besides the Bachmann site? I fear their high shipping costs and USD exchange & don't want to put in all my personal details on their website only to find the cost outrageous. Not much success with a dealer order either.
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Post by GrandeGould on Nov 5, 2020 11:26:17 GMT -8
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 6, 2020 5:47:52 GMT -8
Right side view. I must give Bachmann credit here as I feel they did a really good job on this model. Even black units at the time had a lot of ornamentation and beautiful trim work. I feel these old 4-4-0s were much more beautiful than the workhorses that followed in the first half of the 20th century.
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Post by Christian on Nov 6, 2020 6:03:13 GMT -8
Right side view. I must give Bachmann credit here as I feel they did a really good job on this model. The wheel flanges strike me. No pizza wheels. Sure, the side rods and bolts are supersized, but the small flanges on the wheels help balance that out. It really looks nice.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 7, 2020 4:27:01 GMT -8
Roof shot showing Bachmann's craftsmanship on this model. Seems pretty darn nice to me!
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 7, 2020 10:56:57 GMT -8
I stripped off the old lettering, repainted the tender, added decals appropriate for early CPR steam and sprayed dullcote over everything. Afterwards I hand painted the wheels and trucks flat black to get rid of the shine back here.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 8, 2020 5:16:46 GMT -8
One final view as CPR 349 rolls off into history. Thanks for following along this brief journey with me as I repainted and re-decalled this model. I'm quite pleased with how it turned out and hope this inspired some 1860-1910 mainline modellers to share similar projects here.
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Post by Christian on Nov 8, 2020 8:38:06 GMT -8
One final view as CPR 349 rolls off into history. Not so fast. You got this era started and are well on your way to doing the first photo below. But how about the second photo?
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 8, 2020 9:19:40 GMT -8
^ Thanks for posting those great old time photos. I do have a couple of other pieces to make up a very short train at this point:
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 8, 2020 9:24:22 GMT -8
This loco has some interesting features: There's a clerestory on the cab roof. The lead truck has outside bearings. There looks to be a well-used sheet metal covering on the pilot. The counterweight on the main driver is overlaid on the spokes--can't tell about the rear driver. And the two photos show something I hadn't thought about before. The sides of the cab don't go far enough down for an engineer (and fireman) to have forward facing "chairs" like in late steamers--there's no place below the cab for legs. I assume there must have been a bench there, instead. And either the "sitter" sat sideways or with his legs horizontal out in front of him. I found a picture of the inside of the cab of a 4-4-0: Over on the left, you can see the sitting-platform for the fireman. Painted black. Ed
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Post by aharown on Aug 28, 2021 10:17:15 GMT -8
As someone who models that era and bought one of these myself to redo in a CPR scheme, what did you use to remove the numbers? I assume that's an engine black. What did you use for decals?
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 28, 2021 13:00:24 GMT -8
As someone who models that era and bought one of these myself to redo in a CPR scheme, what did you use to remove the numbers? I assume that's an engine black. What did you use for decals? Welcome to the forum and thanks for your post!
I removed the old lettering with Solvaset and a pencil eraser. The new black is Krylon Rust Protector Flat Enamel spray paint. Decals are from Black Cat of Winnipeg.
You might also be interested in my bobber caboose 3007 from the same era.
I would love to see some of your work posted in this forum. We see very little from the early 20th century.
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Post by aharown on Aug 28, 2021 14:20:18 GMT -8
Thanks - CPR rebuilt many of their older locomotives after 1910. I'm modelling ~ 1900 myself, which this locomotive works well with, along with the Roundhouse 2-8-0's, which I'll have to give the same treatment. Still in the layout building stage at the moment.
Black Cat - yes, I know which set you're talking about. Wouldn't have thought of spray cans for a locomotive, but I did just paint a bridge with one, which worked well. I will have to get some, along with some Solvaset - thank you.
Oh, and I own and really like your CPR Caboose book - here's hoping someone like Rapido comes out with the older 35'5" cabooses - the original built truss rods and arched lettering all the way to multi-mark schemes would make lots of modelers happy.
And yes, the rest of your train from the other thread is very nice too! I assume you don't model that era?
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Post by sd40dash2 on Aug 28, 2021 14:38:04 GMT -8
Thanks very much for your nice post and compliments on my book. I too am hoping it will inspire mfrs to properly address some of the missing cabooses from CP and other railways in RTR plastic form. I recently tried again to drum up support for this in the HO forum.
Wow a CP 1900 modeller, you are a very rare breed! What made you decide on that era? I guess this means that even the upcoming D10 is "too new" for you.
There are some tremendous modellers out there who model the 1860-1910 and "Pre-Depression" eras that blow me away everytime I see their work. I normally model CP in the west circa 1989 but am often inspired by some of the overlooked eras such as the one you model. I for one very much look forward to seeing some of your builds.
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Post by aharown on Aug 28, 2021 15:57:33 GMT -8
If you need another vote for the caboose, I'll certainly add mine.
As far as the older era, I've been backdating my ideas for a while, as I used to model the transition era - in some ways it's easier to model, as the equipment is simpler, although less availability is a downside. I did a road trip in the West a number of years ago, and really like the dry Thompson-Nicola region - deserts in Canada! I'm modeling that area, so old west, but CPR mainline - lots of research so far.
Yes, the D10 is too new, although all D10's were rebuilt by the CPR in ~1910-1912 from their original construction build, so looked a lot different when new. Even a lot of older locomotives, like the preserved 136, were rebuilt at the time, and really aren't as old as their build date, as the only original parts of that engine are the frame, and possibly the bell, according to Omer Lavallee in his "Canadian Pacific Steam Locomotives". Remanufactured might be a better term.
Thanks - I'm not one of those "stick-built" MMR types, but am still having fun.
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Post by Christian on Aug 29, 2021 1:12:58 GMT -8
If you need some excitement - this photo was taken last week in Colorado. Photo from a series of photographs on trainorders.com by Randy in PHX. by
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Post by aharown on Aug 29, 2021 12:02:23 GMT -8
Ooh, yes - I knew about the first restored narrow-gauge locomotive there - didn't know there was a second one now too. Thanks for sharing.
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