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Post by middledivision on Apr 14, 2021 16:01:06 GMT -8
Yep. My new CP SD60M’s front and rear trucks are warped. And a guy at my club has a BNSF patched unit with the same problem. Check your unit on a piece of glass. This is very disappointing, considering the overall great job they did on these.
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Post by espeenut on Apr 14, 2021 18:45:02 GMT -8
My SD-60's from a number of years ago had the exact same issue, I returned them for a refund. I went with the Proto 2000 version...
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Post by middledivision on Apr 14, 2021 19:00:39 GMT -8
Here's Athearn's response when I asked about sending mine in for repair. "There is currently not a fix for the warped trucks on the SD60M and parts for the SD60M are limited in quantity." Glad I don't have any Dash 9's on order. Can't trust Athearn to stand behind their products.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Apr 14, 2021 19:33:26 GMT -8
I recommend taking it back to the shop where you bought it, and let them deal with it. That's why they get the Big Bucks.
They could either give you a refund, or send it back to Athearn for repair.
I don't see why you feel you should have to be the one to deal with the problem.
Ed
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Post by middledivision on Apr 14, 2021 19:38:04 GMT -8
Athearn won't fix them. I like the engine and don't want to return it for a refund. I agree that for the price, the buyer should not have to deal with it.
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 15, 2021 3:17:01 GMT -8
That's crazy that they can't A: solve a known problem before another run and B: stand behind it to fix it.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 15, 2021 3:27:17 GMT -8
No win scenario here it appears, and Athearn behind the eight-ball. Maybe go on their social media site and report your experience publicly. Seem unacceptable.
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Post by markfj on Apr 15, 2021 3:36:38 GMT -8
Just out of curiosity; is it the side frames or the gear towers that are warped? It also sounds like substitute parts from another Athearn six axle locomotive won’t solve this problem either. If that were the case, Athearn would probably offer those parts as a fix.
If it is the gear towers, maybe someone can design a 3D replacement (I know, that’s a long shot).
Thanks, Mark
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Post by fr8kar on Apr 15, 2021 3:53:47 GMT -8
If anyone is around next Tuesday, maybe this is something that should be discussed. "Currently not a fix" could mean it's a known problem and we're trying to solve it. Not a very inspiring way to say that though. It could also mean tough luck.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 15, 2021 4:10:20 GMT -8
Ryan, agreed. Customer service is often about being diplomatic but also offering hope to the customer who has a defective product they paid their hard earned money for. They must be solution oriented rather than just say sorry, we can't help. That is patently unacceptable.
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Post by cemr5396 on Apr 15, 2021 4:36:47 GMT -8
From what I have read on other groups they are not 'warped' per se, it is more a case of things being able to move around that shouldn't be able to. Apparently taking the trucks apart and reassembling them with some shimmage in the right spots fixes them up nicely.
Is it ideal that they have this problem? No. But it is certainly not the end of the world if it can be fixed relatively easily by a competent modeler.
If I can find the post again later I will try and copy the method I saw used here for anyone that needs it.
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Post by middledivision on Apr 15, 2021 6:04:05 GMT -8
^^^ Correct. The problem is there is a shim missing on one side of the truck. The repair seems pretty straightforward but still, at the price they are charging, you should not have to fix their mistake. And for Athearn to just say that there is no fix available, that’s unacceptable. They should say they’re aware of the problem and are working on a solution.
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Post by cnsd60f on Apr 15, 2021 6:05:11 GMT -8
I picked up three of the BN units and one happens to be on my desk. I took a quick test with it sitting on a flat surface and used a piece of paper and a business card to see if any of the wheels are not touching.
Here is what I found. The front and mid axle wheels on the conductor side (left side) are off the ground. The mid axle only slightly but the front axle I could get a business card under. On the rear axle it is the outer most and middle wheel on the engineer side. This makes sense as it is the flip of the front truck.
I haven't taken it apart yet, but in flipping over the locomotive and looking at the wheelsets I also noted the following that tends to indicate what Brad has reported. The inner most and middle wheelsets have a lot of side play. The end wheelsets (outward most) have significantly less. From a visual inspection it looks like the pickup is positioned higher up on the sideframe for the wheel that is being lifted off. Will have to explore if this is in fact the issue and if it can be adjusted.
Ryan C.
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Post by middledivision on Apr 15, 2021 6:06:29 GMT -8
Here’s the fix from a FB post: There is a fix. The issue causing the warped shape is due to the side frame mount. The piece that holds it in is too small on one side allowing the sideframe to move around. Athearn put a shim on one side frame, I’m guessing they thought that would fix it. However a shim needs to be installed onto the other side frame in order to fix the problem. That straightens the truck back out. I used .020 styrene to fix it
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Post by cemr5396 on Apr 15, 2021 6:29:02 GMT -8
Does nobody remember the days when pretty much EVERY model required work (in some cases, lots of it!) to get it to run properly? We have it good these days, really good.
I'd still far rather have a very nice SD60M sitting on the layout that needs a couple tweaks to get into tip top shape, than have what was available in the past or not having it at all. I have been seriously considering getting one of them, regardless of the truck problem. The only thing stopping me so far has been the budget.
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Post by cnsd60f on Apr 15, 2021 6:53:24 GMT -8
Remember the toothpaste trick to smooth out the Athearn Bluebox locomotive gears? I was also thinking about when I would purchase one of these and have 15-20 packs of detail parts to add on to them to make them accurate.
I don't know how bad this problem is for running. The three I bought are waiting for decoders and speakers. With the cost of these things this has helped me purchase what I need and spread it out over time. Plus I get the decoder and sound system I prefer.
I do know that the lead wheel is quite high on the one side on the one I checked. I would suspect that would be a problem at frogs.
Ryan C
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Post by fr8kar on Apr 15, 2021 6:59:24 GMT -8
Does nobody remember the days when pretty much EVERY model required work (in some cases, lots of it!) to get it to run properly? We have it good these days, really good. I'd still far rather have a very nice SD60M sitting on the layout that needs a couple tweaks to get into tip top shape, than have what was available in the past or not having it at all. I have been seriously considering getting one of them, regardless of the truck problem. The only thing stopping me so far has been the budget. I am firmly in the camp of "this is MODEL railroading and you're going to have to do some MODELing" but this isn't your father's (or grandfather's) Athearn anymore. Any manufacturer offering what they are offering should be expected to deliver a quality product. If they don't, and it happens to everyone eventually, it's time to get a fix together and make it happen posthaste (see Rapido: FB-2 sideframe debacle). I know I must sound like a whiny collector but this isn't a shake-the-box model. The product cannot operate as intended or advertised due to a design flaw that was picked up and jury-rigged instead of actually corrected. Not OK.
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Post by cemr5396 on Apr 15, 2021 7:25:44 GMT -8
Does nobody remember the days when pretty much EVERY model required work (in some cases, lots of it!) to get it to run properly? We have it good these days, really good. I'd still far rather have a very nice SD60M sitting on the layout that needs a couple tweaks to get into tip top shape, than have what was available in the past or not having it at all. I have been seriously considering getting one of them, regardless of the truck problem. The only thing stopping me so far has been the budget. I am firmly in the camp of "this is MODEL railroading and you're going to have to do some MODELing" but this isn't your father's (or grandfather's) Athearn anymore. Any manufacturer offering what they are offering should be expected to deliver a quality product. If they don't, and it happens to everyone eventually, it's time to get a fix together and make it happen posthaste (see Rapido: FB-2 sideframe debacle). I know I must sound like a whiny collector but this isn't a shake-the-box model. The product cannot operate as intended or advertised due to a design flaw that was picked up and jury-rigged instead of actually corrected. Not OK. I don't actually disagree with you. As nice as it would be to have everything come out perfect every time, we don't live in a perfect world so that's not gonna happen. And when things are 'not perfect', yes, they should be trying to help us out and find a solution. However that is also a bit of a perfect world scenario and we have seen in the past that doesn't always happen. (note I'm not picking on any one manufacturer here. There have been several guilty parties over the years) My philosophy has always been to roll with the punches. There are more important things in life to worry about than model trains. If I run into a model that has something wrong with it, my first instinct is to see what I can do about it, not find the nearest person to complain to. It's just not my style. The only problem I have ever run into I couldn't fix on my own was a light board/decoder combo that fried on a Rapido unit I have (it wasn't one of the RS-18s, btw). I sent it back to them and they fixed it, no fuss.
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Post by gevohogger on Apr 15, 2021 7:32:26 GMT -8
Does nobody remember the days when pretty much EVERY model required work (in some cases, lots of it!) to get it to run properly? We have it good these days, really good. I'd still far rather have a very nice SD60M sitting on the layout that needs a couple tweaks to get into tip top shape, than have what was available in the past or not having it at all. I have been seriously considering getting one of them, regardless of the truck problem. The only thing stopping me so far has been the budget. I am firmly in the camp of "this is MODEL railroading and you're going to have to do some MODELing" but this isn't your father's (or grandfather's) Athearn anymore. Any manufacturer offering what they are offering should be expected to deliver a quality product. If they don't, and it happens to everyone eventually, it's time to get a fix together and make it happen posthaste (see Rapido: FB-2 sideframe debacle). I know I must sound like a whiny collector but this isn't a shake-the-box model. The product cannot operate as intended or advertised due to a design flaw that was picked up and jury-rigged instead of actually corrected. Not OK. Not only that, but if I understand the thread title correctly, this as a Genesis locomotive? From the "Premium Trains by Athearn" line?
These really need to be pretty much perfect right out of the box. No fixxes necessary on the part of the buyer.
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Post by cr9617 on Apr 15, 2021 8:16:28 GMT -8
I believe someone mentioned it another thread, but this is like buying a brand new toaster or TV and having to disassemble it and fix when you get it home. There is no one I know that would tolerate that.
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Post by kpack on Apr 15, 2021 8:30:20 GMT -8
I am firmly in the camp of "this is MODEL railroading and you're going to have to do some MODELing" but this isn't your father's (or grandfather's) Athearn anymore. Any manufacturer offering what they are offering should be expected to deliver a quality product. If they don't, and it happens to everyone eventually, it's time to get a fix together and make it happen posthaste (see Rapido: FB-2 sideframe debacle). I know I must sound like a whiny collector but this isn't a shake-the-box model. The product cannot operate as intended or advertised due to a design flaw that was picked up and jury-rigged instead of actually corrected. Not OK. I don't actually disagree with you. As nice as it would be to have everything come out perfect every time, we don't live in a perfect world so that's not gonna happen. And when things are 'not perfect', yes, they should be trying to help us out and find a solution. However that is also a bit of a perfect world scenario and we have seen in the past that doesn't always happen. (note I'm not picking on any one manufacturer here. There have been several guilty parties over the years) My philosophy has always been to roll with the punches. There are more important things in life to worry about than model trains. If I run into a model that has something wrong with it, my first instinct is to see what I can do about it, not find the nearest person to complain to. It's just not my style. The only problem I have ever run into I couldn't fix on my own was a light board/decoder combo that fried on a Rapido unit I have (it wasn't one of the RS-18s, btw). I sent it back to them and they fixed it, no fuss. I agree with both of these points. It's frustrating when things like this happen for sure. But I've found that I can take care of most things myself, plus I usually learn something in the process. It's definitely not what I prefer to do, but it's faster and less of a hassle for me to just fix it and move forward. Preserves heart muscle and stomach lining. Problems like this happen in every industry, every hobby. Most of it is not a huge deal. If I can address the problem myself then I do so. If I can't fix it myself then I get others involved we get it figured out. Approaching these types of issues in a straightforward but kind way tends to make people more willing to help. -Kevin
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Post by riogrande on Apr 15, 2021 8:33:10 GMT -8
Speaking of Genesis "Premium Trains by Athearn" - in 2015, I purchased several Genesis GP40-2's and the side frames of the lower sill body were bowed up at the front. Mark Hills, who is much more experienced at disassembling these models kindly looked at two of them and noticed the metal frames were indeed bowed. They were sent to Athearn who, according to the paperwork, they did replace the frames. But when I received them back, they still have that bow up at the front bottom side sill. In contrast, the new run (2020) were nice and straight.
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Post by severn on Apr 15, 2021 8:38:51 GMT -8
Isn't this kind of thing just a side effect of the manufacturing model? Which is that's it contracted out. There may be prototypes and sign offs and all that but once the product ships, there appears to limited recourse on addressing manufacturing issues except in a "second run" scenario.
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Post by fr8kar on Apr 15, 2021 8:44:12 GMT -8
The fact that they discovered the problem then installed a shim on one side as a fix which didn't actually fix it and still shipped the product is a problem. They applied a bug fix that only partially worked out only worked in some cases. I would be more understanding if they were ignorant of the problem rather than the approach of half-fixing it then saying to the customer we know there's a problem with the model we designed but we don't have replacement parts for it. Should have delayed the release when they picked up the problem.
Again, I don't mean to come across like a spoiled brat. These models aren't in my era and I wasn't going to buy them anyway so I have no skin in the game. And you guys see what I post here. I'm not afraid to take things apart or build my own better mousetrap. But the majority of people buying these models are not willing to or possibly capable of taking them apart to fix them. It's just not the same thing as manhandling a blue box shell off a zinc frame. You breathe on these things wrong and five detail parts fall off. It's not easy to engineer a fix on your own while avoiding damaging the model. The brand new model that came from the factory not working properly.
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 15, 2021 13:55:45 GMT -8
when you're paying top dollar for a high end ready to run locomotive I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it runs without falling off the track because the trucks are warped like it's a 1983 Life-Like train set that sold for 12.98 in a discount store.
Edit: I used that example because I remember MR or RMC did a holiday train set review around that time and the LL set they got had problems with wheels falling off and being out of gauge, it got the lowest rating out of the dozen or so they examined.
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Post by drolsen on Apr 15, 2021 16:30:35 GMT -8
Disappointing to see this kind of quality control issue, but it's sort of a relief for me, in a strange way. I mentioned in another thread that I really wanted one of these UP models as an example of one of their "signature" diesels in the '90s. However, this is the kind of issue that disqualifies a model for me so I don't spend the money on something I don't really "need." There are more than enough models out there, and more to come, that exceed my hobby budget, so I won't spend money on a risky model like this that I may have to put additional effort into fixing.
Dave
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Post by westerntrains on Apr 15, 2021 22:38:36 GMT -8
If we continue to accept and repair a faulty model, Athearn, and others, will continue with no quality control and terrible service. This isn't modeling, it's repairing defective models.
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Post by markfj on Apr 16, 2021 3:56:53 GMT -8
If we continue to accept and repair a faulty model, Athearn, and others, will continue with no quality control and terrible service. This isn't modeling, it's repairing defective models. Unfortunately you are correct. Compounding the problem is the low production quantities based on preorders. This limits the availability of parts and complete replacement models. Demand is strong enough that when people get their models, defectives and all, many simply accept and live with the problems rather than return it. I did exactly that when my preordered GP38-2 arrived with factory damage (not shipping damage as Athearn claimed). Athearn did offer to replace the model with something else, but could not give a matching replacement since all the GP38-2s in the road I wanted were sold out. They also said they would send replacement parts, but never did. Thanks, Mark
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Post by es80ac on Apr 16, 2021 8:24:19 GMT -8
Thanks to the original poster for making us aware of the problem. I had to open the UP and CP ones I bought last night and check them, and sure enough both had slight issue of the wheels on the front left sitting in the air.
So what is the consensus of what we should do in this case? 1: send it back to Athearn? 2. send it back to the dealer? 3. try to fix it ourselves? 4. And raise a collective complaint to Athearn about the shoddy QA and releasing a product with known issue and demand a recall?
The other problem with this engine is the bearing cap is very easy to fall off. I have this issue with both of my units, the problem is the axle end is too small verses the Scaletrains rotating axle. Also Scaletrains provides a set of axle cap replacement, while Athearn cheaped out and did not provide any when their units will much more likely to loose those axle caps. Thumbs down on that one.
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Post by middledivision on Apr 16, 2021 9:08:37 GMT -8
^^^ Your options are: 1- Return the unit to your dealer for a refund or replacement (although they might be out of stock or have the same problem) 2- Fix it yourself, which can be done if you are capable of doing it
That's it. Athearn will not repair the engines and have said the parts supply is limited. Although they will send replacement bearing caps if you jump through a few hoops, first.
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