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Post by raptorengineer on Jul 5, 2021 9:49:23 GMT -8
i have question? depending on your dcc system and if it has low draw power, will it effect speed of two locomotives or more that have same motor and same dcc decoder settings?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 5, 2021 14:35:37 GMT -8
If it does, it should affect them equally.
If you find that those two locos together run dramatically slower than just one, that's not right.
Top o' the list to check/fix is everything between your command station and the rails your engines sit on.
Is the wire too small? Is the run too long? Do you have bad wire connections? Is there an electrical switch acting up? Are you depending on rail joiners to conduct power between track sections?
An easy way to check all the above out is to run some nice quality big-enough clip leads from your command station to your rails. This will bypass all that stuff I said to check. If it fixes it, see above list. If it doesn't, it gets a bit sticky.
Ed
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Post by raptorengineer on Jul 6, 2021 8:45:51 GMT -8
ok. well i upgraded two athearn locomotives with leds and esu decoder.they both have same sound file and 128 speed setting. but one runs little faster. so later i try 2 scaletrains et44ac and one runs little faster then the other yet they both have same speed setting 128. now my layout is 11x15 double track. and dcc system i'm using is bachmann dynamis witch has 2.3 amps power draw. all my connections are good and main bus wire is 12 gauge wire. it an old dcc system.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 6, 2021 11:37:34 GMT -8
128 isn't a speed setting, except maybe for MTH stuff. It's an output setting. And what you describe is that one of each pair runs a bit faster than the other for the same power input to the motor.
If it's just a little, it won't matter when you run them together. But there is a point where the difference is too big, and there's a problem. From the way you write, it sounds like it's not a problem.
You can make them match exactly (in theory) by adjusting CV's.
Do a search for "speed matching for DCC".
Ed
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2021 13:55:49 GMT -8
The speed differential imo becomes a problem when you can audibly hear the two engines fighting each other ie when accelerating is one pushing or dragging the other such that you hear noise at the wheels?
I was trying to speed match two very different engines, and in the end completely gave up because I really don't have to run them together. These two particular engines had VERY different speed curves, so at various speed steps (just 1 through 28) you could hear them fighting a little bit. Ultimately, in 10 hours or so of attempting to match them, the wheel plating wore off some of the wheels.
So imo if you hear wheel chatter like if one is pushing/pulling the other enough that the wheels make audible noise, that is going to wear the wheel plating prematurely.
If you are someone who doesn't care about wheel plating, assumes it's going to wear in 30 to 50 hours of run time anyway, maybe you wouldn't care about a little plating wear. I am just mentioning it for the benefit of others.
The other problem would be if one engine was working harder such that it got too warm, then that would be "too much". I've never yet experienced that in dcc with one model fighting another, so it's likely rare. I have had a Rapido diesel run too hot and then fail on its own, without working with another engine. If they are going to fail it is usually in the first couple hours of run time.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Jul 6, 2021 14:13:31 GMT -8
I use an Accutrak model railroad speedometer to aid in speed matching. I use 28 speed steps, and setup the locomotives, so that speed step 1 equals two mph, speed step two equals four mph, etc.
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 6, 2021 19:00:26 GMT -8
.... So imo if you hear wheel chatter like if one is pushing/pulling the other enough that the wheels make audible noise, that is going to wear the wheel plating prematurely. .... Been a long time since I've seen wheels that were plated .... my old Model Power engines if I recall correctly. Most all engines made in the last 20 years have solid nickel silver wheelsets. No plating to wear off. Mark.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2021 21:50:11 GMT -8
Well, perhaps you just don't run your trains very much?
I am not aware of ANY manufacturer who uses solid nickel silver wheels.
Everything I have has plated wheelsets. The BLI engines start to show brass at 10 hours run time or less. The Athearn Genesis 2.0 units and the latest Bowser units may get to 40 hours before the plating starts to wear.
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Post by Mark R. on Jul 8, 2021 11:48:23 GMT -8
I run my engines a lot, and with roster of over 60 engines, the only ones that have worn through any plating are my two Model Power engines. The rest are all Atlas or Bowser with a couple Proto and Genesis. My Atlas engines are 20+ years old and have never wore through any of that so-called plating. I have no broadway engines, so I can't comment on those. Please post a picture of this plating wore off your Bowser engines - I gotta see this.
Mark.
Edit - Finally heard back from a few reps of the major manufacturers and here is one response ....
"Most wheels are still brass with a nickel silver coating which is much more durable and harder than the old cadmium coating that wore off. Nickle silver is really expensive. And hard to get in China. About the only wheels made from true Nickle silver are from Northwest Shortline and the material comes out of Australia. Every machine I’ve ever seen in China up until I was there last about 2.5 years ago was turning brass for wheels then plating it."
Apparently I was wrong in my assumption. My apologies.
Mark.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 20:46:17 GMT -8
Hello Mark--
No worries.
I had just shot a short video showing bare brass through nickel silver plating, but it's not needed now...
Perhaps my train lengths on the layout are causing wheels to slip just enough to wear plating off by 40 hours. Idk.
John
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 16, 2021 6:54:05 GMT -8
Nickel silver plating? That's a new one on me. Plating with an alloy would seem difficult, as you have to account for the behavior of three different types of metals during the operation. Not to mention plating copper and zinc onto copper and zinc--what's the point?
I would have thought straight nickel. So simple and straightforward, plus it's done all the time.
Just for yucks, I checked the wheels of my old Athearn cow-and-calf--IRON! Cool! The black coating should wear off the treads nicely when I change motors and install DCC. Then they'll be a perfect match for the real stuff.
Oh yeah. Speaking of wheels and treads and stuff, two of my old brass steam engines have stainless steel tires. Also cool, I think.
Ed
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