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Post by slowfreight on Sept 6, 2021 18:02:34 GMT -8
I know I've been thrashed on this forum for being torqued at Rapido's disrespect of/disinclination for help on these units. I, too, hope that it's a one-time thing that they bit off too much here. I would have appreciated an acknowledgment of such. Unfortunately, the lack of imagination in E units has me expecting the worst. (Why no BN 9900-series? At least 6 accurate contemporary paint schemes!)
Guess I'll keep my Walthers Proto units and rebuild them accordingly. They're not bad, and my skills have improved while I waited for the Rapido SW.
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Post by cemr5396 on Sept 6, 2021 18:39:21 GMT -8
Thanks for the side by side photos with the 1200RS. I stand corrected, it appears the new 1200 shares very little with the 1200RS.
The 1200RS in spite of it's warts is still a pretty good model, the 1200 is..... honestly not.
I was debating getting an undec and building it into something just for the hell of it... at this point I think I'm better off saving the money for things I already have on order.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2021 18:41:42 GMT -8
I know I've been thrashed on this forum for being torqued at Rapido's disrespect of/disinclination for help on these units. I, too, hope that it's a one-time thing that they bit off too much here. I would have appreciated an acknowledgment of such. Unfortunately, the lack of imagination in E units has me expecting the worst. (Why no BN 9900-series? At least 6 accurate contemporary paint schemes!) Guess I'll keep my Walthers Proto units and rebuild them accordingly. They're not bad, and my skills have improved while I waited for the Rapido SW. I had high hopes for these engines…but the shine has worn off the penny…I’ll pass. |
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Post by GP40P-2 on Sept 6, 2021 18:48:01 GMT -8
That difference in the hood top radius between the 1200 and the 1200RS is concerning.... One of them is likely not right.
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Post by 12bridge on Sept 6, 2021 18:59:10 GMT -8
That difference in the hood top radius between the 1200 and the 1200RS is concerning.... One of them is likely not right. Interesting catch. If I remember, I will bring a square to work. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 6, 2021 19:21:25 GMT -8
That difference in the hood top radius between the 1200 and the 1200RS is concerning.... One of them is likely not right. The prototypes look to have matching curve radii between the top and the sides. I just measured the curve radius for my GN SW1200, and it's 1/16". We've seen a Geep measured with a 6" radius, so it's pretty close. It looks like the Rapido SW1200RS is the big failure here. Ed |
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Post by es80ac on Sept 6, 2021 19:46:48 GMT -8
That difference in the hood top radius between the 1200 and the 1200RS is concerning.... One of them is likely not right. The prototypes look to have matching curve radii between the top and the sides. I just measured the curve radius for my GN SW1200, and it's 1/16". We've seen a Geep measured with a 6" radius, so it's pretty close. It looks like the Rapido SW1200RS is the big failure here. Ed That does not make me feel good since I bought 2 SW1200RS. |
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Post by es80ac on Sept 6, 2021 19:49:40 GMT -8
Since we are all of sudden finding Rapido's prototype fidelity to be high suspect, did any one seriously reexamined Rapido's past products to see if they are correct? F40PH, Dash8-40CM for example?
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Post by thunderhawk on Sept 6, 2021 19:57:14 GMT -8
That difference in the hood top radius between the 1200 and the 1200RS is concerning.... One of them is likely not right. In comparing to prototype pics the radius on the model RS appears way too tight. The model 1200 looks correct. As far as the windows, speaking to the fronts, I'd say they ran into some limitations on just how little they could reliably mold between the openings. Some things simply can't be done at perfect scale and have a usable part. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 6, 2021 20:50:31 GMT -8
Since we are all of sudden finding Rapido's prototype fidelity to be high suspect, did any one seriously reexamined Rapido's past products to see if they are correct? F40PH, Dash8-40CM for example? You can read here on this board issues with some of the engines. First run of RS-11 has a batch of issues. Some engines they 3D scanned so the contour should at least be right, but some of these other things guys are finding seem to just be from rushing development and assuming some things are the same from Canadian locos to US locos. Which would be fine if they were lower-end models, but they're presented as high-end quality pieces. They need a little more I's dotted and T's crossed. |
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Sept 7, 2021 4:05:19 GMT -8
The picture comparing the P2K windows to the Rapido windows shows the P2K windows to be much closer to correct then the Rapido ones. I guess they must have had the technology back in the late 90s/early 2000s to be more accurate. That difference in the hood top radius between the 1200 and the 1200RS is concerning.... One of them is likely not right. In comparing to prototype pics the radius on the model RS appears way too tight. The model 1200 looks correct. As far as the windows, speaking to the fronts, I'd say they ran into some limitations on just how little they could reliably mold between the openings. Some things simply can't be done at perfect scale and have a usable part. |
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Post by unittrain on Sept 7, 2021 6:29:24 GMT -8
With all this scanning technology ect it's a head scratcher as to why this many issues can present it is kinda silly. I think they announced too much and need cash flow hence hasty products pushing things through becomes necessary at some point. I got E8s and an RS-11 plus U25bs on pre-order I'm hoping they turn out good but this has me concerned these are waaay too expensive to have glaring issues. Some manufacturers have a level of arrogance too that causes them to ignore advice from knowledgeable people. It's seems Rapido has taken issue with criticism of their videos they respond to that criticism but not when it comes to issues with their products which is what they need to be concerned with!
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Post by 12bridge on Sept 7, 2021 7:10:24 GMT -8
There was nothing hasty about these. It took 3 years to get them.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 7, 2021 9:46:31 GMT -8
Since we are all of sudden finding Rapido's prototype fidelity to be high suspect, did any one seriously reexamined Rapido's past products to see if they are correct? F40PH, Dash8-40CM for example? I know nothing about the 8-40, but: It's my belief that the Rapido F40PH and FL9 are approaching perfection. As a slight aside, I am very impressed at how they programmed their decoders on these two. And that the remaining US ones that HAVE been done do not. And that makes me wary of future ones. Ed |
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Post by sp3205 on Sept 7, 2021 9:50:40 GMT -8
As far as the windows, speaking to the fronts, I'd say they ran into some limitations on just how little they could reliably mold between the openings. Some things simply can't be done at perfect scale and have a usable part. I'm not any kind of expert on mold making, but when was the Athearn SW1500 (the *actual* SW1500) introduced? The seem to have been able to get far thinner cross sections between windows, and that was somewhere around 40 years ago. And it doesn't seem to have been an issue since on other cabs. The photos of the hood sides show the appalling lack of depth on the EMD hood latches. It's almost as if one were shaved off, it would leave a "clean" surface, when in fact the only part that should be removed is the frame. It's a problem not limited to Rapido, and I wonder if it's a limitation of the EDM process used in mold making these days. It's really awful though.
I tend to look at models in terms of whether they can serve as a good base for further efforts. I have one of these, spent some time inspecting all the changes that would be needed, and put it back in the box. I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to fixing everything.
Elizabeth
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Post by schroed2 on Sept 7, 2021 10:07:00 GMT -8
ok, I ordered two of the SW1200s in GTW (1 w noise, 1 silent), since I figured that to be the easier way then dealing with some 20year old resin shells (pointOne models ?). They have not arrived at my german dealer, though.
Anyway, I was checking out the manual on their website in order to determine what decoder to get for the silent one, but...read yourself (note: it used to be a significant part of my work to write and review technical documentation...so I have developed an eye for things that might make no sense...)
the ESU 58429 is the LokSound, the matching LokPilot w MTC21 could be 59629, as far as i can tell
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Post by es80ac on Sept 7, 2021 11:15:52 GMT -8
Since we are all of sudden finding Rapido's prototype fidelity to be high suspect, did any one seriously reexamined Rapido's past products to see if they are correct? F40PH, Dash8-40CM for example? I know nothing about the 8-40, but: It's my belief that the Rapido F40PH and FL9 are approaching perfection. As a slight aside, I am very impressed at how they programmed their decoders on these two. And that the remaining US ones that HAVE been done do not. And that makes me wary of future ones. Ed FL9 and F40PH are also what got me hooked to Rapido, in the past I have not touched their product because of the price. With the recent issues on RS11, B36-7 and now SW1200 I wonder what is going on over at Rapido that is causing them to really slip on research and accuracy? I was looking forward to their PA as well, now I am not sure. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 7, 2021 11:16:07 GMT -8
Bernd,
They forgot to include the comment that the 58429 will become a "SILENT DCC DECODER" if you push F8.
See. NOW it's silent.
Ed
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Post by thunderhawk on Sept 7, 2021 12:46:57 GMT -8
As far as the windows, speaking to the fronts, I'd say they ran into some limitations on just how little they could reliably mold between the openings. Some things simply can't be done at perfect scale and have a usable part. I'm not any kind of expert on mold making, but when was the Athearn SW1500 (the *actual* SW1500) introduced? The seem to have been able to get far thinner cross sections between windows, and that was somewhere around 40 years ago. And it doesn't seem to have been an issue since on other cabs. The photos of the hood sides show the appalling lack of depth on the EMD hood latches. It's almost as if one were shaved off, it would leave a "clean" surface, when in fact the only part that should be removed is the frame. It's a problem not limited to Rapido, and I wonder if it's a limitation of the EDM process used in mold making these days. It's really awful though.
I'm not a mold maker either, however getting the windows as close together as the prototype isn't going to happen short of molding the cab in clear plastic then doing some creative masking to paint it. My thinking is that the cab walls are thinner than the old Athearn. (I don't have either so can't compare) which would require the wider spacing to retain enough structural rigidity. Basically just spitballing, but I agree they don't look great. Those screws standing tall on the knucklebusters kind of remind me of a pre production ST SD I saw that had the entire latch assembly standing proud about 3 scale inches or more. Something got crossed up between the CAD model and the EDM process some way or another. The issue was fixed before production on the ST models but somehow slipped through here. If anything the screws should be recessed ever so slightly so they show up with a little weathering. Of course they would need to be deep enough to not get filled with paint. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 7, 2021 14:45:57 GMT -8
I'm comparing my Rapido SW1200 cab front with a Kato NW2 cab front. The depth of the casting looks about the same (no, I'm not in the mood to take the 1200 apart).
The width of the uprights between the windows is about half on the Kato. And yet, it's still a pretty sturdy casting.
I'd say Kato NAILED that cab. When did the cut the molds?
The grade on this model is now a C--
won't take much.......
OK. I've been staring at my little 1200. Because it's got wire (straight) handrails and the end handrail treatment is pretty good, I'll kick that back up to a C-. I do LIKE the little guy, despite what his parents did to him.
Ed
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Post by valenciajim on Sept 7, 2021 15:20:26 GMT -8
I'm comparing my Rapido SW1200 cab front with a Kato NW2 cab front. The depth of the casting looks about the same (no, I'm not in the mood to take the 1200 apart). The width of the uprights between the windows is about half on the Kato. And yet, it's still a pretty sturdy casting. I'd say Kato NAILED that cab. When did the cut the molds? The grade on this model is now a C-- won't take much....... OK. I've been staring at my little 1200. Because it's got wire (straight) handrails and the end handrail treatment is pretty good, I'll kick that back up to a C-. I do LIKE the little guy, despite what his parents did to him. Ed I'll bet the Rapido loco set you back more than the Kato did.  |
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Post by mvlandsw on Sept 7, 2021 16:10:41 GMT -8
If the walkway detail was to scale, would it even be visible? The prototype walkway detail is not visible unless you are close to the locomotive. If the model detail has to be so oversize it might be better to just omit it. Similar detail has been done better by other companies.
The grabirons are also oversize, especially noticeable with the white painted ones. Again, other companies have done better.
The fit or installation of the exhaust stacks is poor.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 7, 2021 17:20:15 GMT -8
I'll bet the Rapido loco set you back more than the Kato did. Oh, yeah, especially considering I bought only the shell, for parts. $10, I think. Ed |
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 7, 2021 17:35:38 GMT -8
I have a Kato somebody gave me free. Found out why, a bear to DCC it. I remember those came out around 1995 maybe, maybe a little before, I think they're Kato's first foray into their own US market stuff after doing drives for Atlas, Con-Cor and Stewart at various points. Seems like they were around $80.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 7, 2021 19:09:03 GMT -8
Two problems with the Kato NW2 (for me, anyway):
convert to DCC/sound
lack of a metal underframe, making it light
I look over the body shell, though, and I just never find a mistake. It is a real beauty.
Ed
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Post by valenciajim on Sept 7, 2021 19:41:10 GMT -8
Ed,
I hear you about the DCC conversion. I have a Rio Grande Kato unit myself and looked into converting it to DCC, but that was too daunting a task. I wonder whether that is why Kato has not had a new release of that locomotive for many years. On DC the locomotive runs beautifully and I really would like to have it run on the Colorado section of my layout.
Jim
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 8, 2021 6:57:15 GMT -8
Two problems with the Kato NW2 (for me, anyway): convert to DCC/sound lack of a metal underframe, making it light I look over the body shell, though, and I just never find a mistake. It is a real beauty. Ed Are you sure you have a Kato NW2 and not a Con-Cor which was the old Revell shell from 1956 on a Kato drive? I've never had one but I think they're similar to the Con-Cor MP15 which if I remember right has a plastic frame (I do have one of those here.... somewhere). The Kato NW2 has a frame like an N-scale engine, it's split down the middle and fills the shell completely. It has weird brass contact strips on the sides over the trucks. Whatever else it is, they're not light. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 8, 2021 7:38:59 GMT -8
Perhaps I used the wrong term. I meant the deck of the locomotive, not the "guts" of the model.
It's becoming pretty common for HO switchers to have metal decks, for the added weight. The Kato has a plastic deck. As does, say, the Bowser Baldwin S-12.
I agree that the Kato is pretty heavy, being as the inside is full of metal. Which seems to make it difficult to add DCC (and sound).
Ed
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Post by pboilermaker on Sept 8, 2021 16:33:19 GMT -8
Since we are all of sudden finding Rapido's prototype fidelity to be high suspect, did any one seriously reexamined Rapido's past products to see if they are correct? F40PH, Dash8-40CM for example? The B36-7? Well, where to begin on that one...you'll get rage mobbed on this forum and insulted by Rapido if you discuss the various issues it has. Moving along... The Dash 8 was a failed budget line, so the detail concessions were understood. The sideframes are pretty basic and shallow, some BCOL details were omitted in favor of CN, and the shells were a mix of paint and colored plastic. They apparently served as practice for improvements made to the N version. The F40PH models are great. Annoyingly, they tooled radiused cutouts in the plow, but those should be squared off rectangles to match the doors. Careful trimming with an Xacto is needed to clean them up. The only other obvious issue is that they removed the "Greatest American Hero" soundtrack clip from all Amtrak releases subsequent to the initial offering. Without busting out a micrometer, it is easily the best F40PH ever made. Kato gave it a try and the results were less than stellar. Brass versions are pretty horrid, along with every previous attempt in plastic. Not too many shots of the CSX modifications on the latest F40PH release, but I would guess that perhaps finer detail corners were cut to focus on the bigger stuff (like the extended fuel tank). We'll have to see, but we know stepwells will not be an issue. |
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Post by 12bridge on Sept 8, 2021 17:41:09 GMT -8
My FL9 is fantastic. Zero complaints or issues to my eye.
A few more SW1200 notes. They run like crap, but this has already been brought up in another thread. Quite a bit of surging, maybe that will get better with some more break in, one of my 1200RS's did the same. In the 5 minutes to swap to KD's in the foam tray, a good chunk of the paint on the end handrails flaked off. These are all delrin, and I cant imagine they used any sort of adhesion promoter. Quite a bit of delrin parts on these.
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