|
Post by onequiknova on Feb 23, 2022 18:34:03 GMT -8
Another one for the history books... I feel your pain on the decal film. Had a similar experience on a car that I just finished with multi-layered weathering. It looks fine slamming down the track, but a good camera shows all the flaws. You're reminding me that I need to get moving on those E units I'm ignoring. It is actually a cool looking effect it had on the Alclad. Unfortunately the decal film stopped it from going any further. I'm finishing up another abandoned E unit project as we speak.
|
|
|
Post by onequiknova on Feb 23, 2022 18:38:31 GMT -8
I like that sound setup, a TSU2 with a pair of Bowser speakers is a solid combo. I've done the same in a few of my units. Yes, I was impressed with the rich sound. I've used the Bowser speakers in the past, but never in multiple.
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Feb 23, 2022 20:12:32 GMT -8
I like that sound setup, a TSU2 with a pair of Bowser speakers is a solid combo. I've done the same in a few of my units. Yes, I was impressed with the rich sound. I've used the Bowser speakers in the past, but never in multiple. I can't tell in the pic if you did this or not, the only thing you've got to watch out for using those speakers is they need to be wired in series with each other. If you already knew this good for you, this may be helpful to someone else. Because Bowser uses ESU decoders, the pair of speakers in each box is wired in parallel, with a load of 4 ohms so they work with those decoders. But Tsnunami decoders have a much more powerful amplifier that needs 8 ohms of resistance. Meaning you need two of those Bowser speaker sets in series, otherwise there is a danger of burning up the amplifier on the decoder. I nearly did that once, I used a single Bowser speaker with a TSU2 Decoder in my Bowser SD40-2F Red Barn without knowing any better and noticed the decoder quickly became quite hot to the touch. Luckily no damage was done. I still have that decoder in service in that loco, I found room inside there for one of the smaller Bowser boxes and wired them together, which is safely within the decoder's requirements.
|
|
|
Post by onequiknova on Feb 23, 2022 21:30:51 GMT -8
Yes, I was impressed with the rich sound. I've used the Bowser speakers in the past, but never in multiple. I can't tell in the pic if you did this or not, the only thing you've got to watch out for using those speakers is they need to be wired in series with each other. If you already knew this good for you, this may be helpful to someone else. Because Bowser uses ESU decoders, the pair of speakers in each box is wired in parallel, with a load of 4 ohms so they work with those decoders. But Tsnunami decoders have a much more powerful amplifier that needs 8 ohms of resistance. Meaning you need two of those Bowser speaker sets in series, otherwise there is a danger of burning up the amplifier on the decoder. I nearly did that once, I used a single Bowser speaker with a TSU2 Decoder in my Bowser SD40-2F Red Barn without knowing any better and noticed the decoder quickly became quite hot to the touch. Luckily no damage was done. I still have that decoder in service in that loco, I found room inside there for one of the smaller Bowser boxes and wired them together, which is safely within the decoder's requirements. Humm. I actually went back and forth quite a bit with a friend on how to wire these, and we concluded they should be wired in parallel, since that's how Soundtrax says to wire multiple 8ohm speakers. You say the Bowser speakers are 4ohm speakers, but the ones I use are advertised as 8 ohm. www.ebay.com/itm/Bowser-Dual-Cube-Sugar-Speaker-With-Wires-8ohm-BOW1291-/114996313400?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Feb 24, 2022 7:14:41 GMT -8
The description on the Bowser website (which the Ebay seller appears to have copy+pasted) says that EACH of the two speakers in that box are 8 ohm. What it doesn't say is that they are wired in parallel with each other so that actually drops it to 4 for the completed assembly. the resistance formula for a parallel circuit is: R total= ( R1 x R2)/( R1 + R2) each one is 8 R total= (8x8)/(8+8) R total= 64/16 R total is 4.
|
|
|
Post by rockisland652 on Feb 24, 2022 8:30:19 GMT -8
The description on the Bowser website (which the Ebay seller appears to have copy+pasted) says that EACH of the two speakers in that box are 8 ohm. What it doesn't say is that they are wired in parallel with each other so that actually drops it to 4 for the completed assembly. the resistance formula for a parallel circuit is: R total= ( R1 x R2)/( R1 + R2) each one is 8 R total= (8x8)/(8+8) R total= 64/16 R total is 4. Thanks, Brad, appreciate the head up. We vacillated all over the place trying to figure out how to wire these. They are indeed 4 ohm speakers and should be overloading the amp. I ran a test unit for hours and this revealed no overheating and no loss of sound in our tests. Now you have us concerned. I have over 20 locomotives that for years have run with the Bowser speaker solo at 4 ohms with not a single issue (except for a couple of dud speakers), but only two F9B's (plus John's E6) that have the speakers in parallel, apparently at 2 ohms. This may be a problem. We will test an F9B by changing the wiring to see if there is any difference. The other F9B will be the control for the experiment.
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Feb 24, 2022 8:42:57 GMT -8
The description on the Bowser website (which the Ebay seller appears to have copy+pasted) says that EACH of the two speakers in that box are 8 ohm. What it doesn't say is that they are wired in parallel with each other so that actually drops it to 4 for the completed assembly. the resistance formula for a parallel circuit is: R total= ( R1 x R2)/( R1 + R2) each one is 8 R total= (8x8)/(8+8) R total= 64/16 R total is 4. Thanks, Brad, appreciate the head up. We vacillated all over the place trying to figure out how to wire these. They are indeed 4 ohm speakers and should be overloading the amp. I ran a test unit for hours and this revealed no overheating and no loss of sound in our tests. Now you have us concerned. I have over 20 locomotives that for years have run with the Bowser speaker solo at 4 ohms with not a single issue (except for a couple of dud speakers), but only two F9B's (plus John's E6) that have the speakers in parallel, apparently at 2 ohms. This may be a problem. We will test an F9B by changing the wiring to see if there is any difference. The other F9B will be the control for the experiment. Just re wire the two Bowser boxes into series and you will be fine. I have a Bowser SD40-2F with Tsunami2 and two of those boxes wired up that way and it sounds awesome.
|
|
|
Post by onequiknova on Feb 24, 2022 9:27:57 GMT -8
Thanks, Brad, appreciate the head up. We vacillated all over the place trying to figure out how to wire these. They are indeed 4 ohm speakers and should be overloading the amp. I ran a test unit for hours and this revealed no overheating and no loss of sound in our tests. Now you have us concerned. I have over 20 locomotives that for years have run with the Bowser speaker solo at 4 ohms with not a single issue (except for a couple of dud speakers), but only two F9B's (plus John's E6) that have the speakers in parallel, apparently at 2 ohms. This may be a problem. We will test an F9B by changing the wiring to see if there is any difference. The other F9B will be the control for the experiment. Just re wire the two Bowser boxes into series and you will be fine. I have a Bowser SD40-2F with Tsunami2 and two of those boxes wired up that way and it sounds awesome. What about an install with a single Bowser speaker and Tsu 2 deçoder? I've got a few of those floating around. Does the speaker need to be rewired internally into series?
|
|
|
Post by cemr5396 on Feb 24, 2022 9:54:33 GMT -8
Just re wire the two Bowser boxes into series and you will be fine. I have a Bowser SD40-2F with Tsunami2 and two of those boxes wired up that way and it sounds awesome. What about an install with a single Bowser speaker and Tsu 2 deçoder? I've got a few of those floating around. Does the speaker need to be rewired internally into series? To be honest I'm not 100% sure. I tried once early on in my DCC installing adventures, and the decoder was definitely running quite warm. I don't know if it would get bad enough to damage it, but I didn't want to find out either so I went in a different direction with my speaker setup on that model. If you have a few that are like that already and they seem to be holding up maybe you can get away with it though. Rewiring the Bowser boxes might be possible, I opened one up once to see if it was doable and decided against it. It was quite a while ago but if I remember right the very tiny wires from the speaker coils were attached directly to each other, and from there to the larger wire that leads to the decoder. Another option for a 'Dual Speaker' setup that would be safe for a TSU2 would be the one Athearn makes. Because it is designed to be used with Tsunami2 decoders you only need one of them. It is the same that they use in some of their sound equipped models now and they have made it available for purchase seperately. I have not installed one myself yet but I have ordered a few of them to try out because I have been impressed with the performance of those speakers in the factory equipped models I have that have them. I did open up one of my Athearn models to get a look at what those speakers actually look like, they are a longer and taller than the Bowser ones so depending what you install them in you may need to adjust some things. I have a couple Bowser SD40-2s I am going to put those into and they will need to have the frames milled down a bit to make them fit.
|
|
|
Post by onequiknova on Feb 24, 2022 12:34:48 GMT -8
What about an install with a single Bowser speaker and Tsu 2 deçoder? I've got a few of those floating around. Does the speaker need to be rewired internally into series? To be honest I'm not 100% sure. I tried once early on in my DCC installing adventures, and the decoder was definitely running quite warm. I don't know if it would get bad enough to damage it, but I didn't want to find out either so I went in a different direction with my speaker setup on that model. If you have a few that are like that already and they seem to be holding up maybe you can get away with it though. Rewiring the Bowser boxes might be possible, I opened one up once to see if it was doable and decided against it. It was quite a while ago but if I remember right the very tiny wires from the speaker coils were attached directly to each other, and from there to the larger wire that leads to the decoder. Another option for a 'Dual Speaker' setup that would be safe for a TSU2 would be the one Athearn makes. Because it is designed to be used with Tsunami2 decoders you only need one of them. It is the same that they use in some of their sound equipped models now and they have made it available for purchase seperately. I have not installed one myself yet but I have ordered a few of them to try out because I have been impressed with the performance of those speakers in the factory equipped models I have that have them. I did open up one of my Athearn models to get a look at what those speakers actually look like, they are a longer and taller than the Bowser ones so depending what you install them in you may need to adjust some things. I have a couple Bowser SD40-2s I am going to put those into and they will need to have the frames milled down a bit to make them fit. Thanks for the info. Tom above took one of his dud speakers apart, and they've got a little circuit board inside of them that looks easy enough to switch the wires around on, problem is Bowser doesn't make these speakers easy to get into. They are screwed and glued shut. I think I'll switch the wiring around on this E6 and leave the single speaker installs alone for now.
|
|
sp3205
Junior Member
Posts: 93
|
Post by sp3205 on Feb 24, 2022 18:09:13 GMT -8
I've been waiting for these finished photos, and they sure don't disappoint. Just fabulous work. I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the now resurrected project.
Elizabeth
|
|