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Post by Baikal on Feb 24, 2023 14:24:37 GMT -8
Adjusted*, Which North American railroads are modeled less than average? Which are modeled more than average?
I'm sure you could come up with empirical evidence using data (demographic+railroad+model sales, etc.), but for now I'm just curious about what modelers think, without over-thinking it.
Of course railroads change over time and with new roads, mergers, and other dissapearing acts.
The reasons why some railroads are modeled more-or-less than average is interesting, BUT for now, toss out the names.
Please don't name railroads because it's your favorite and you want to see more stuff made. Tempting, I know...
So I went down a list of "major" railroads from 1955 to the 1990s when mergers really changed the field. Off the top of my head, it seems like the following roads get less attention that their "size" would indicate: Soo Line & predecessors, NC&StL, L&N, ACL/SAL/SCL, the three West Point Route roads, MKT, pre-merger KCS, CGW, M&StL, PGE/BCR, Cotton Belt, C&EI, T&P, MP, All Mexican roads especially narrow gauge, RDG, CNJ, Wabash
" " " " the following roads get more attention that their "size" would indicate: ATSF, SP, UP, CN, CP, SP&S, MILW, DRGW, EL, D&H, Rock Island, NKP, Illinois Terminal
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* Adjusted meaning models made or modeling activity normalized by any of a number of factors: Railroad route-miles, ton-miles, passenger-miles, number of passengers, population of area served, population density of area served, etc...
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Post by gevohogger on Feb 24, 2023 14:35:10 GMT -8
I'm not doubting you, because really I know nothing about the Illinois Terminal besides knowing it had an odd green color. But it just seems rather out of left field. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Feb 24, 2023 14:39:12 GMT -8
Alaska RR gets forgotten as a potential modelling option, but those that do tend to be pretty fanatic and the items sell well.
I'd agree with Rapido Jason that the Canadian roads, especially VIA Rail, were difficult to model due to lack of models on the market.
The southern lines, especially Florida / Georgia based ones
Random short lines? I'm partial to the Montour Railroad, but that's only well know in the greater Pittsburgh area.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 24, 2023 14:43:07 GMT -8
But where do you put GN, NP, Q?
Ed
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Post by Frank on Feb 24, 2023 14:52:34 GMT -8
Obvious bias showing, but despite the perception I do feel like ACL/SAL/SCL are popular subjects with decent representation. Not a huge online presence in terms of layouts and prototype modeling, but there is a good sized following out there and good representation from the big manufacturers.
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Post by Baikal on Feb 24, 2023 15:02:57 GMT -8
But where do you put GN, NP, Q? Ed
Average-ish. Maybe NP less, GN more popular.
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Post by peoriaman on Feb 24, 2023 15:04:11 GMT -8
If forum posts count for anything, Rio Grande would be No. 1 by a mile.
And yeah, IT? "One of these is not like the others".
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Post by Baikal on Feb 24, 2023 15:06:32 GMT -8
I'm not doubting you, because really I know nothing about the Illinois Terminal besides knowing it had an odd green color. But it just seems rather out of left field.
It's a small road that has gotten lot of coverage over the years. Relaitve to size. Much smaller than C&EI but probably more popular.
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Post by linessouth on Feb 24, 2023 15:06:54 GMT -8
Not including shortlines and modern regionals, my guess for least modeled would be RF&P, L&N, Florida East Coast, Central Vermont, Ann Arbor, DT&I, and Monon.
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Post by Baikal on Feb 24, 2023 15:08:09 GMT -8
If forum posts count for anything, Rio Grande would be No. 1 by a mile. And yeah, IT? "One of these is not like the others".
And if you count DRGW narrow gauge, it's off the chart.
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Post by Baikal on Feb 24, 2023 15:09:51 GMT -8
Not including shortlines and modern regionals, my guess for least modeled would be RF&P, L&N, Florida East Coast, Central Vermont, Ann Arbor, DT&I, and Monon.
I agree with all those.
I had RF&P and FEC on my initial list, deleted for brevity. Lots of passengers carried over RF&P.
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Post by csxt8400 on Feb 24, 2023 15:41:44 GMT -8
Strictly about layouts and "places in time" renditions.
Popular (beyond current iteration class 1's): ATSF, UP, BN, CR, SP, DRGW, Chessie System, MILW, PC, DT&I, New Haven, CN, CP, BCOL.
Less exposure/demand than I feel deserving: MP, the "lines" of ACL, SAL, SCL, and Seaboard System, GM&O, original IC, and the death star era, CGW, LV, Wabash, NW, GTW, and IHB.
What I see more as collector oriented and overall high cross interest: SOO, Frisco, MKT, SP&S, WP, ICG, L&N, Minnesota Commercial, DMIR, BLE, and perhaps D&H.
I think the other side of this is the fall from grand heights. I think PRR, NYC, GN and NP, and a few others are losing their allure in terms of cross interest or truly dedicated buyers.
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Post by Christian on Feb 24, 2023 16:29:32 GMT -8
Kansas City Southern is the least modeled class I railroad. Some KCS equipment from the 21st century is available, but not so much moving into the past. When operations are merged and CP red is splashed over everything KCS will be pretty much forgotten.
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Post by Christian on Feb 24, 2023 16:47:26 GMT -8
it had an odd green color. Several shades of "odd" green!  In 1950 the locomotive fleet contained: Diesels: 18 - Steam: 14 - Electric: 38 - Battery Diesel-Electric: 2 - Battery Trolley: 1 - Diesel Trolley: 1 By the time NW discovered that they owned most of the stock IT rostered 40 diesels. By that time most operations took place on leased trackage because modern freight isn't suited for down the main street running under wire. My guess is that the unique colors of green IT used are the reason for its sales. And then there are the bright red freight trucks. IT equipment doesn't look like anyone else. That's eye candy in the hobby shop and on internet pages. |
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Post by Baikal on Feb 24, 2023 17:40:28 GMT -8
Kansas City Southern is the least modeled class I railroad. Some KCS equipment from the 21st century is available, but not so much moving into the past. When operations are merged and CP red is splashed over everything KCS will be pretty much forgotten.
Early KCS, MKT, IC, SLSF, and CGW all had blah paint schemes. (Unlike IT) Or are they "classic"?
KCS & IC road switchers & switchers kept the basic black & white pin stripes that was worn by some other roads in the 1940s. (SP, UP switchers...) SLSF went modern with orange & white in 1/65. IC orange & white 1/67.
Solid red KCS and MKT cab units look almost identical. Little lettering. Did they use the same red? CGW not much different. I didn't realize until a few weeks ago some KCS cab units had light yellow window & grille areas. I don't think I've ever seen a model of those. KCS all white scheme was 1971. MKT green & yellow 1972.
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Post by hudsonyard on Feb 24, 2023 23:34:52 GMT -8
I can only think of a handful of prototypical, operations oriented Long Island Railroad layouts. Lots of collectors out there, but the returns on actual Railroad Modeling has always been scarce. it's a tough prototype to nail down that requires a lot of equipment building. The operations are dense and complex and the scenery is not your typical model railroaders definition of "spectacular". it's an operation dying to be given the proper treatment.
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Post by jeoffreythecat on Feb 25, 2023 4:11:42 GMT -8
To give a shout out to the RF&P: Like many smaller/less modeled railroads, there is generally an active historical society. The RF&P one has a quarterly publication, including a modeler's page, and has commissioned models from major manufacturers in all three major scales. www.rfandp.org/ |
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Post by crblue on Feb 25, 2023 5:56:45 GMT -8
Alaska RR gets forgotten as a potential modelling option, but those that do tend to be pretty fanatic and the items sell well. I'd agree with Rapido Jason that the Canadian roads, especially VIA Rail, were difficult to model due to lack of models on the market. The southern lines, especially Florida / Georgia based ones Random short lines? I'm partial to the Montour Railroad, but that's only well know in the greater Pittsburgh area. The AVRR is right near me, but there's about 3 short lines In Pittsburgh, all owned by the same company and all with the same maroon and yellow highlight coloring, and all lettered xxRR. They probably wouldn't sell well, but you can do 3 short lines with the one paint job and the only difference is the first two letters on the hood. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Feb 25, 2023 6:06:34 GMT -8
Alaska RR gets forgotten as a potential modelling option, but those that do tend to be pretty fanatic and the items sell well. I'd agree with Rapido Jason that the Canadian roads, especially VIA Rail, were difficult to model due to lack of models on the market. The southern lines, especially Florida / Georgia based ones Random short lines? I'm partial to the Montour Railroad, but that's only well know in the greater Pittsburgh area. The AVRR is right near me, but there's about 3 short lines In Pittsburgh, all owned by the same company and all with the same maroon and yellow highlight coloring, and all lettered xxRR. They probably wouldn't sell well, but you can do 3 short lines with the one paint job and the only difference is the first two letters on the hood. That or the G&W owned "fleet" of short lines in their Orange scheme but with different name (Buffalo & Pittsburgh and so on). Also Ohio Central would be another short line that would be fun to model. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 25, 2023 7:36:20 GMT -8
To give a shout out to the RF&P: Like many smaller/less modeled railroads, there is generally an active historical society. The RF&P one has a quarterly publication, including a modeler's page, and has commissioned models from major manufacturers in all three major scales. www.rfandp.org/Double shout on that. I used to live and go to school near Potomac Yard. I could (and did) watch trains from my classroom--undoubtedly the reason I didn't get all A's. You could not have more fun than sitting on a bench at the parklet at Alexandria station on a warm summer's evening. It was small in length, for sure (Alexandria to Richmond, Virginia). But it handled pretty much all of the north-south traffic on the east coast. Not sure, but I think the entire mainline was double-tracked. Not a lot of on-line freight, which explains their rather small freight car fleet. And, yes, there's a very excellent HS for the railroad. Not "flashy", but very nice indeed. Ed |
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Post by cera2254 on Feb 25, 2023 7:36:44 GMT -8
Along with Baikal, I think one could rope late NYC and PRR in with that, talk about blah paint schemes. I’d consider PC much more interesting to look at than either of those two.
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Post by trainboyy on Feb 25, 2023 8:09:35 GMT -8
Black Mesa & Lake Powell. I say this not just because it's my favorite railroad, but also because there HAVE been models produced. The Athearn Ortner 5 Bays (with additional non-existent road numbers), the American GK E60C and the Bachmann E60CF all were either based on and painted in Black Mesa equipment, or in the case of the GK engine, the scheme was painted on a fictional GE concept locomotive. I only know two other guys that have actively modeled it, which obviously is better than being the only one who models something.. |
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Post by alexandrianick on Feb 25, 2023 8:17:45 GMT -8
Alaska RR gets forgotten as a potential modelling option, but those that do tend to be pretty fanatic and the items sell well. I'd agree with Rapido Jason that the Canadian roads, especially VIA Rail, were difficult to model due to lack of models on the market. The southern lines, especially Florida / Georgia based ones Random short lines? I'm partial to the Montour Railroad, but that's only well know in the greater Pittsburgh area. The AVRR is right near me, but there's about 3 short lines In Pittsburgh, all owned by the same company and all with the same maroon and yellow highlight coloring, and all lettered xxRR. They probably wouldn't sell well, but you can do 3 short lines with the one paint job and the only difference is the first two letters on the hood. Not all of them. They were AVR, DCR, and SWP. Now they say Carload Express on them. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Feb 25, 2023 8:27:48 GMT -8
The problem with least modeled is it's subjective based on how popular a road is in the first place.
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Post by Baikal on Feb 25, 2023 9:39:25 GMT -8
Black Mesa & Lake Powell. I say this not just because it's my favorite railroad, but also because there HAVE been models produced. The Athearn Ortner 5 Bays (with additional non-existent road numbers), the American GK E60C and the Bachmann E60CF all were either based on and painted in Black Mesa equipment, or in the case of the GK engine, the scheme was painted on a fictional GE concept locomotive. I only know two other guys that have actively modeled it, which obviously is better than being the only one who models something..
When the E60s were running I almost got arrested by Indian police for attempting to photograph an approaching BMLP train. I stopped on US 160 right-of-way at a crossroad and within 2 minutes an Navaho policewoman screeched to a stop stop, gets out of her car and orders me to put my camera away. She mentions confiscating my camera and arrest if I didn't comply. When I brought up it being on a Federal highway, she took the safety off or pulled the hammer back on her gun and assumed a shootin' position. So I left with no photo.
Your US Constitution is not valid there. Something about photos stealing souls or whatever. I guarantee you can take photos for a price, however.
That was my biggest run-in with the law when railfanning. I took hundreds of rail and transit photos in Russia and several other former Soviet countries and no one ever said a thing. Coal trains are common in Russia, almost all using drop-botom gondolas which look very much like those used on western US roads for coal service. Lots of big electric locos too.
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Post by Baikal on Feb 25, 2023 9:49:21 GMT -8
The problem with least modeled is it's subjective based on how popular a road is in the first place.
That's not a problem, that's circular logic. And it's not subjective as it can be quantified.
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Post by trainboyy on Feb 25, 2023 9:59:28 GMT -8
Black Mesa & Lake Powell. I say this not just because it's my favorite railroad, but also because there HAVE been models produced. The Athearn Ortner 5 Bays (with additional non-existent road numbers), the American GK E60C and the Bachmann E60CF all were either based on and painted in Black Mesa equipment, or in the case of the GK engine, the scheme was painted on a fictional GE concept locomotive. I only know two other guys that have actively modeled it, which obviously is better than being the only one who models something..
When the E60s were running I almost got arrested by Indian police for attempting to photograph an approaching BMLP train. I stopped on US 160 right-of-way at a crossroad and within 2 minutes an Navaho policewoman screeched to a stop stop, gets out of her car and orders me to put my camera away. She mentions confiscating my camera and arrest if I didn't comply. When I brought up it being on a Federal highway, she took the safety off or pulled the hammer back on her gun and assumed a shootin' position. So I left with no photo.
Your US Constitution is not valid there. Something about photos stealing souls or whatever. I guarantee you can take photos for a price, however.
That was my biggest run-in with the law when railfanning. I took hundreds of rail and transit photos in Russia and several other former Soviet countries and no one ever said a thing. Coal trains are common in Russia, almost all using drop-botom gondolas which look very much like those used on western US roads for coal service.
Man, that's one helluva story. I've never heard anything so ridiculous. I won't bring up politics but after 9/11, everyone started to get really uptight about security. Some of it justified, but in cases like this, it's overstretching boundaries by a long shot. I'm sorry that happened to you dude, I would've done the same thing if I had a cop draw her gun on me for taking train pictures no matter if I was right. A photo of any train, rare or not, isn't worth a bullet in the head or the legal nightmare of getting arrested on Federal Land by Navajo police as a US citizen. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Feb 25, 2023 10:38:02 GMT -8
The problem with least modeled is it's subjective based on how popular a road is in the first place.
That's not a problem, that's circular logic. And it's not subjective as it can be quantified.
Either way, something obscure and not popular is not going to be modeled as often as something lots of people know about and like. I've already seen people suggest roads aren't popular that I know sell well. If they're selling, people are modeling them. |
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Post by Baikal on Feb 25, 2023 10:55:26 GMT -8
When the E60s were running I almost got arrested by Indian police for attempting to photograph an approaching BMLP train. I stopped on US 160 right-of-way at a crossroad and within 2 minutes an Navaho policewoman screeched to a stop stop, gets out of her car and orders me to put my camera away. She mentions confiscating my camera and arrest if I didn't comply. When I brought up it being on a Federal highway, she took the safety off or pulled the hammer back on her gun and assumed a shootin' position. So I left with no photo.
Your US Constitution is not valid there. Something about photos stealing souls or whatever. I guarantee you can take photos for a price, however.
That was my biggest run-in with the law when railfanning. I took hundreds of rail and transit photos in Russia and several other former Soviet countries and no one ever said a thing. Coal trains are common in Russia, almost all using drop-botom gondolas which look very much like those used on western US roads for coal service.
Man, that's one helluva story. I've never heard anything so ridiculous. I won't bring up politics but after 9/11, everyone started to get really uptight about security. Some of it justified, but in cases like this, it's overstretching boundaries by a long shot. I'm sorry that happened to you dude, I would've done the same thing if I had a cop draw her gun on me for taking train pictures no matter if I was right. A photo of any train, rare or not, isn't worth a bullet in the head or the legal nightmare of getting arrested on Federal Land by Navajo police as a US citizen.
I don't mind the soverign nation stuff- I'll obey their laws. BUT if they want to go that way they should also rip out that US-funded highway.
That's not going to happen.
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Post by cemr5396 on Feb 25, 2023 12:38:49 GMT -8
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't get why the first five of those are on that list. Those are some pretty big Class 1 RRs to be calling 'over modeled'.
Especially CN and CP, they are basically the natural modeling choice for nearly anyone from this side of the border. Except in certain circumstances, I would go as far as to say it is pretty much impossible to be a Canadian prototype modeler without getting at least one of them involved. Even if you model a shortline, that shortline interchanges with one or both of them somewhere.
The plethora of Canadian modelers out there shouldn't come as that much of a surprise, IMO. People model what they know.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever done any kind of formal survey but I'm sure it would find that whenever an area is dominated by one or two railroads, that tends to be what is modeled the most in that area. BN (or predecessors) and UP in the PNW, UP/SP/ATSF in SoCal, NYC/PRR/PC/Conrail in the Northeast, CN and CP in Canada, etc.
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