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Post by NYSW3614 on Nov 15, 2023 7:08:30 GMT -8
I write this based on the experiences (and the process isn’t over yet) I’ve had in the past few months, hopefully it does some good to share.
A very good hobby friend passed away unexpectedly. He had a fantastic layout- the trains, the running quality, the setting, you name it. Beyond the rolling stock on the layout and in the basement we’re finding stuff that many didn’t know about. More rolling stock, but also tools, magazines, books, slides, photos, etc. A complicating factor is that friends of this had material at his house, more than anyone knew except for him. Some of the stuff is marked for an owner, others not so much. A further complication was that the relationships of my friend with some of his friends had not been the best over recent years but the material remained at my friend’s house. Some are making claims to material but there are no lists and sometimes the person making a claim can’t specify the item(s).
My friend’s wife and child are caught in the middle and some of us are helping the best we can.
It’s hard enough dealing with the process of grief and what follows (removing the layout etc.).
I encourage us all to give to thought to:
• What would happen should those around you have to sort out your collection. If you have rolling stock of others at your place, you and the owner should have a list. Let a spouse/friend know where that list is.
• Suggesting a point person(s) to a spouse to help make recommendations.
• Organization, especially in later years. It will be so much easier to sort out if boxes are marked and magazines aren’t mixed with empty freight car boxes, etc.
• A planned gift to an archive, museum, model club, for some items that really matter to you. Have that conversation with those organizations now.
Regards,
Joshua
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Post by nebrzephyr on Nov 15, 2023 7:34:26 GMT -8
All good points. In that regard I have been "downsizing" for the very reasons you stated. In fact I just sold my 5,000+ slide collection that I had been hanging onto for years..
Bob
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Post by richardthomasatal on Nov 15, 2023 7:35:24 GMT -8
I think of it often at my age. I told my wife her best bet is to have my friends come over and sell it on ebay and take 15% or 20% of the profits. If that wasn't feasible or all my friends go before me, I told her to sell it to brasstrains.com or any place she could with one exception and that is Trainz.com. If she uses them I will likely come back and haunt her. I've had and heard of nothing but bad expriences with them from lowballing to classless behaviors. My collection is pretty organized and confined to just my layout room and shelved by brand. I don't think I'll be so generous that I gift the collection to a museum but stranger things have happened.
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Post by middledivision on Nov 15, 2023 8:51:12 GMT -8
I have a plan in place where a family member will sell my stuff. They know what it's worth and who not to sell to.
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Post by jeoffreythecat on Nov 15, 2023 13:55:28 GMT -8
This should not just be a concern for older modelers. Accidents and medical emergencies can occur at any age.
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 15, 2023 15:02:06 GMT -8
If I croak suddenly 12bridge is gonna have yet another estate of dispose of.
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Post by prr 4467 on Nov 15, 2023 15:03:16 GMT -8
This is exactly the reason I never, ever, under any circumstances, borrow any model trains, or tools, from anyone, and on the rare occasions when I do borrow a book I make it a point to return said book (or magazine) within literally a week or two, so that nothing gets lost on my end.
I did once borrow a book, "The A, Norfolk and Western's Mercedes of Steam" from a friend, and apparently it was subsequently lost. I know I don't have it, but somebody at the train store where I was working could have swiped it, or worse yet, put it out for sale thinking it belonged to the store, if I had it with my lunch items, etc. The owner of the book was very upset, and blamed me for that, and has never let me forget it in now nearly 30 years. I am very sure I returned it to him, but he is very disorganized with his trains and train books, so it could be literally anywhere in his house. I didn't buy him another copy as I'm pretty sure it wasn't me that lost it...he could have loaned it to another local guy as well.
But that was my one lesson learned, and a somewhat painful one, as I obviously have never forgotten.
Regarding my layout, my youngest son will get everything, and I also have tried to whittle down my collection to only a few locos and freight cars of my own. More than half the stuff we run already belongs to my son. I have half the number of locos that he currently has.
My employer all those years ago had a train collection, mostly Lionel, but also including American Flyer, Marx, and early HO stuff including original pattern models, etc. The collection had an insurance value of well over 1 million dollars. Upon his death his "friends" cherry picked the collection and lowballed the Mrs. on the prices (she was indeed excellent at math, doing accounting work for the business into her 90's, but didn't apparently know the model valuations, and he didn't keep records of them). Subsequently she was left with a lot of trains that never brought in much money. The "friends" had arguably thieved the best models for way cheap prices, so she basically "lost" 100's of thousands of dollars she otherwise should have received for the trains, as I was told by other employees of the company.
As I get older, I personally don't need a lot of trains myself and have perhaps obsessively culled my collection to save overall costs where I could and just to not have too much stuff. Right now, my son would inherit 6 Atlas and Bowser locos. The rest is really all his already.
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Post by prr 4467 on Nov 15, 2023 15:22:08 GMT -8
Trainz has dealt fairly and honestly with me this year on 4 shipments of trains by me. I've been paid, and the prices they paid were fair, and in a reasonably timely fashion. I'm just getting ready to ship out the 5th and last shipment of trains to them. Only have to print the fedex labels and ship the boxes. I have no, zero, complaints with Trainz. The prices they allowed me were fair and as honest, as honest as any of the hundreds of other train dealers I have bought and sold items with.
I have been involved with liquidating brass trains on behalf of others before and have watched big name brass dealers (now deceased) only pay out a miserable 38 cents on the dollar for the brass models (I was able to track the listing prices on the dealer's website and my valuations of the models were within 2% of the total value based upon 160 listed prices for brass trains). Even if the dealer discounted the items later, and he would NOT have needed to do so as they were mostly "in demand" models, he still paid the girlfriend a lowball price.
I do not want to speak ill of the dead, but the only (living) brass dealers I would trust are Adam Pomeranz, Howard Zane, and the folks at BrassTrains.
When buying online, I religiously study the photos for condition of the item. If the listings do not include good photos of both sides of the model, as a minimum, I will not even consider bidding. Trainz posts reasonably good photos such that I know what I am buying from them and am comfortable with the item descriptions. Many other dealers--seems like half of the ones on Ebay--no longer accept returns. That is a huge red flag. I've bought from a few of them and subsequently regretted it based upon item condition.
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 15, 2023 15:23:59 GMT -8
I've bought quite a few odds and ends from trainz, occasionally a legit deal pops up.
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 16, 2023 5:55:08 GMT -8
This is exactly the reason I never, ever, under any circumstances, borrow any model trains, or tools, from anyone, and on the rare occasions when I do borrow a book I make it a point to return said book (or magazine) within literally a week or two, so that nothing gets lost on my end. I'm sure that's the best policy, and it's appreciated on both ends.
I once loaned my variable-speed Dremel tool to a friend and he kept it for about 18 months. Even so, I didn't learn my lesson and I later loaned him a jigsaw or saber saw or one of those.... My dad's tools, by the way. I didn't get it back for a couple years.
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Post by 12bridge on Nov 16, 2023 7:35:02 GMT -8
If I croak suddenly 12bridge is gonna have yet another estate of dispose of. Bite me. I have been to this show 3 times now in the last few years. Make a will. A legit document. Keep it up to date. Have a well defined list of where the things are going, who they are going to, specific donations, everything. This shit is super easy to do now, and can be done online even on many places. What not to do: "My friend knows about the stuff" "My wife will have to deal with it" "I made a document/trust/etc. years ago, its fine" |
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 16, 2023 18:55:25 GMT -8
If I croak suddenly 12bridge is gonna have yet another estate of dispose of. Bite me.
cmon you know you want TOFC flats you already have!
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Post by 12bridge on Nov 16, 2023 22:23:21 GMT -8
cmon you know you want TOFC flats you already have!
I know you have a better record player then me, Ill take that. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 28, 2023 10:54:24 GMT -8
What one probably should do is write out a letter to explain at least that they are worth more in their boxes, and how to tell what item goes in what box. Or even make a video of yourself, explaining it, showing what to do and what things are worth. I have taken to writing the month/year and original price on boxes.
If you know your family or whomever has to dispose of it just won't have a clue, I would direct them to have Trainz or someone else come in and buy it all. A local guy was trying to sell a collection of Lionel that was mostly 70s era MPC junk - the Tyco/AHM/Life-Like of Lionel. He got a good price for it from them. About three times what my friend would have paid.
I have seen people dispose of trains from estates in a number of ways. Sometimes they sell it themselves at the train shows. Two possibilities here - either they give it away, because they don't know what it's worth or they do know but want to move it quickly, or they price it too high and it doesn't sell, again because they don't really know what it's worth. In one instance the family forgot to pay the bill on the storage unit and someone bought it and blew it out at a couple of shows.
Other times they have a live auction for everything and the trains sell there. That can go both ways also, I have seen items sell for more than they are worth, and I have bought things for a fraction of their value. One auction in May, folks were selling the house and moving, I was the only serious train guy there and I got the best parts of the collection very cheap. One of the pluses here is it's all gone in a day, or if there are leftovers a cleanout guy will take them. Just one example, I once bought the guy's entire 12x26 unfinished layout for $50 because nobody wanted to deal with taking it down, it was seriously overbuilt with 3/4" plywood tops on 2x4 legs with bracing and shelves below. I just stripped it and the new homeowner got a nice set of workbenches as a housewarming gift. It had almost no scenery done save a couple sections and two very basic loops of track, it only took me an hour or so to pull all the track and buildings.
So that's another thing to consider is to leave some directions on what to do with the layout itself. If you made it in dominoes a video showing where and how to take it apart, for instance.
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Post by richardthomasatal on Nov 28, 2023 11:08:07 GMT -8
Trainz has dealt fairly and honestly with me this year on 4 shipments of trains by me. I've been paid, and the prices they paid were fair, and in a reasonably timely fashion. I'm just getting ready to ship out the 5th and last shipment of trains to them. Only have to print the fedex labels and ship the boxes. I have no, zero, complaints with Trainz. The prices they allowed me were fair and as honest, as honest as any of the hundreds of other train dealers I have bought and sold items with. I have been involved with liquidating brass trains on behalf of others before and have watched big name brass dealers (now deceased) only pay out a miserable 38 cents on the dollar for the brass models (I was able to track the listing prices on the dealer's website and my valuations of the models were within 2% of the total value based upon 160 listed prices for brass trains). Even if the dealer discounted the items later, and he would NOT have needed to do so as they were mostly "in demand" models, he still paid the girlfriend a lowball price. I do not want to speak ill of the dead, but the only (living) brass dealers I would trust are Adam Pomeranz, Howard Zane, and the folks at BrassTrains. When buying online, I religiously study the photos for condition of the item. If the listings do not include good photos of both sides of the model, as a minimum, I will not even consider bidding. Trainz posts reasonably good photos such that I know what I am buying from them and am comfortable with the item descriptions. Many other dealers--seems like half of the ones on Ebay--no longer accept returns. That is a huge red flag. I've bought from a few of them and subsequently regretted it based upon item condition. I wouldn't trust Adam Pomeranz and he is on my black list to my wife. He offers really low and then turns to sell it really high, in many cases it sits. He also doesn't have the capital for a larger collection unless he borrows it from Daddy. Brass Trains and Howard are ok in my book. Trainz may offer a decent price now but they were nothing but trouble when a friend of mine died and tried to take advantage of the situation heavily it seemed in my opinon. |
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Post by captainmudflap (AL) on Dec 3, 2023 22:15:23 GMT -8
Why worry about it? I had an elderly cousin, who had accrued much brass, etc. and a huge am't of HO freight, & pass. cars. He told his kids my cousins), all were adults, to make sure I got his collection, which I said I would buy. The distance from Florida, to N.J. was a factor. The oldest cousin told me "When Pop dies, I'll immediately notify you..." He never bothered, & sold the entire collection to some creep, who bought-it for literally pennies on the dollar! My own son (in is 50's), called me one day, to state: "Hey Dad...you need to sell-off all your diorama's & all your train crap (the layout is 24'x24'), containing a huge am't of loco's etc....as I don't have-the-time to go-through all that train crap of yours..."  "Let-them all eat cake!"  I won't be here, & no matter my wishes, the kids will do as they d**n-well lease, anyway... |
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 17, 2023 1:16:43 GMT -8
Mike Shanahan passed away in September and his family had Jeff Olin auction the bulk of the trains, with the layout itself donated to a model railroad club who dismantled it. So they got the track, wiring, and whatever was under the benchwork (switch machines, etc).
Mike was a member of the CNY-MOD group and had at least one article in RMC. So some may know of him.
Based on what I saw, you want to name someone who can go through and organize your things before a sale. Jeff was more of a Lionel guy and not an expert on HO.
So while some cars did have boxes, the Walthers passenger cars didn't all get into the correct boxes, the Athearn boxes were sold empty in two lots, and the locomotives were spread out on a table, and if you got one you had to go find the box. This also resulted in tenders being mixed up on some engines. Also looks like some engines vanished, there were a few boxes left over.
The rest was typical auction. Some things went quite high - flats of around 10 freight cars clearing $100, flats with HO trucks and autos clearing $200 (but there'd be like 50 cars or more in a flat, so cheap per car). The more desirable brass went high, but a number of engines sold for $50-ish. There were around 6 or 8 tables with all the structures from the layout, only the really intricate pieces like a strip club with signs went high. They paired up the structures by twos save some large ones or some groups of similar structures and averaged about $15 per pair. And I was able to bottom feed some cheap things because no one wanted them. Flats full of parts and pieces, flats full of cheap low end HO cars, etc. The only place I messed up, one flat had the top of a tugboat in it. I bid on it but I must have let it go - only to end up with the rest of the boat later on. This is a place where someone should have been putting things together. I did match up a few things, like the corner tower for a Walthers Merchant's Row was in a box of parts and I put it with the building.
All in all I will come out ahead fairly quickly so I have no complaints. A couple of things will end up on my layout, too. I'm just frustrated I missed the top of the tugboat. I just thought I'd post it here so you get an idea what can happen to an estate.
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Post by loco8107 on Dec 20, 2023 18:17:28 GMT -8
Why worry about it? I had an elderly cousin, who had accrued much brass, etc. and a huge am't of HO freight, & pass. cars. He told his kids my cousins), all were adults, to make sure I got his collection, which I said I would buy. The distance from Florida, to N.J. was a factor. The oldest cousin told me "When Pop dies, I'll immediately notify you..." He never bothered, & sold the entire collection to some creep, who bought-it for literally pennies on the dollar! My own son (in is 50's), called me one day, to state: "Hey Dad...you need to sell-off all your diorama's & all your train crap (the layout is 24'x24'), containing a huge am't of loco's etc....as I don't have-the-time to go-through all that train crap of yours..." "Let-them all eat cake!" I won't be here, & no matter my wishes, the kids will do as they d**n-well lease, anyway... How true that last sentence is, and that covers a lot more than trains/layouts. |
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