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Post by locochris on Nov 18, 2023 21:13:34 GMT -8
Anyone know which modern manufacturers use scale size couplers and which use standard? Example: I know Tangent uses scale couplers. I'm guessing it's close to half and half.
Update, here's what I have so far going by 6 different categories:
Scale Head - Kadee - Metal: Tangent, Moloco, Exactrail(so far)
Scale Head - Not Kadee - Metal: ScaleTrains
Scale Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Athearn
Standard Head - Kadee - Metal:
Standard Head - Not Kadee - Metal: Walthers, Rapido, ClassOneModelworks, BLI, Intermountain
Standard Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Atlas, Bachmann, Bowser
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Nov 18, 2023 21:32:33 GMT -8
Scale-head (Kadee #58 style):
Scaletrains, Tangent, Athearn, Moloco,
Standard head (Kadee #5 style):
Kato, Bachmann, Walthers, Atlas, Intermountain, Rapido, Bowser, BLI
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Nov 19, 2023 8:39:36 GMT -8
Tangent uses Kadee 58 Scale head couplers Couplers, Exactrail did also but not sure what they'll use since ScaleTrains bought them out (Probably their ugly couplers).
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Post by champagnetrail on Nov 19, 2023 9:10:53 GMT -8
Tangent uses Kadee 58 Scale head couplers Couplers, Exactrail did also but not sure what they'll use since ScaleTrains bought them out (Probably their ugly couplers). Yeah...I don't consider ScaleTrains couplers to be "scale head". They look funky and elongated to me...
-pat
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 19, 2023 10:47:16 GMT -8
its no coincidence that the best RTR rolling stock comes from the factory with 158s installed.
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Post by prr 4467 on Nov 19, 2023 11:16:42 GMT -8
I just simply assume that whoever makes it, other than Tangent, that I will be replacing the couplers with Kadee #158. It's that simple for me. I even replace Kadee #5 couplers (where some have been used on rolling stock) with #158, because I think the 158 works better for me on my particular layout.
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Post by rockfan on Nov 19, 2023 11:56:37 GMT -8
#58's for me, haven't tried #158's
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Post by riogrande on Nov 19, 2023 12:24:05 GMT -8
#58's for me, haven't tried #158's Aren't they the same, one is a bulk pack? I bought a couple of the 50 bulk packs back in 2020 for $69.99 at MBK. Now they are priced at $99.99 for the same bulk packs at MBK. Prices have shot up quite a bit! |
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Post by cera2254 on Nov 19, 2023 12:28:50 GMT -8
58s use the copper flat spring and the 158s use the two little wires on the coupler itself for centering.
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Post by rockfan on Nov 19, 2023 12:35:16 GMT -8
58s use the copper flat spring and the 158s use the two little wires on the coupler itself for centering. I think I'll try the #158 |
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Post by rockfan on Nov 19, 2023 12:37:02 GMT -8
#58's for me, haven't tried #158's Aren't they the same, one is a bulk pack? I bought a couple of the 50 bulk packs back in 2020 for $69.99 at MBK. Now they are priced at $99.99 for the same bulk packs at MBK. Prices have shot up quite a bit! I buy the bulk pack. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 19, 2023 12:50:04 GMT -8
#58's for me, haven't tried #158's 158s work way better than the 58s with the #5 style bronze spring, in my experience. And much better appearance wise without the big fat bronze spring on top too. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 19, 2023 12:52:17 GMT -8
#58's for me, haven't tried #158's Aren't they the same, one is a bulk pack? no. Kadee does not change the numbers in the bulk pack, they just add a suffix to the end. so 58 and 158 are normal packs, 58-25 and 158-25 are 25 pairs, a -50 is 50 pairs, etc. |
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Post by tangentsm on Nov 19, 2023 13:19:46 GMT -8
Anyone know which modern manufacturers use scale size couplers and which use standard? Example: I know Tangent uses scale couplers. I'm guessing it's close to half and half. I think the more interesting question is on 3-dimensions: 1. Who offers what couplers by head size 2. Who offers what couplers by source (Kadee vs. "other") 3. Who offers what couplers by material This 3-dimensioned comparison is interesting if you consider what manufacturers are offering now (i.e.in 2023). For example: Scale Head - Kadee - Metal: Scale Head - Not Kadee - Metal: Scale Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Standard Head - Kadee - Metal: Standard Head - Not Kadee - Metal: Standard Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Will let someone else fill this in for what manufacturers are offering now with new releases. David Lehlbach Tangent Scale Models |
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Post by slowfreight on Nov 19, 2023 13:31:22 GMT -8
Dave makes a good point. The only time I ever "got a knuckle" in HO scale was on some old P1K cars with plastic couplers. I too have switched to installing 158s on everything I really care about.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 19, 2023 13:58:11 GMT -8
I have a beef with the words "scale head". The Kadee 58 and 158 couplers are at best semi-scale.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Nov 19, 2023 14:43:17 GMT -8
I have a beef with the words "scale head". The Kadee 58 and 158 couplers are at best semi-scale. I would agree, I have been starting to change out to the Sergent/Inventive models couplers. I like the looks, and the operation. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 19, 2023 15:16:45 GMT -8
I have a beef with the words "scale head". The Kadee 58 and 158 couplers are at best semi-scale. The term should probably be "small head". But I'm sure "scale head" is more appealing. The small head Kadee has a knuckle height only .01" larger than Sergent. But the overall bulk of the coupler is quite a bit more than than number implies. Ed |
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Nov 19, 2023 15:28:50 GMT -8
Kadee Couplers !!!! all others are inferior
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Post by riogrande on Nov 19, 2023 16:17:50 GMT -8
#58's for me, haven't tried #158's 158s work way better than the 58s with the #5 style bronze spring, in my experience. And much better appearance wise without the big fat bronze spring on top too. I bought the green pack of the "scale head" KD's with the bronze springs at train show because the price was reduced - I ended up using most of them on kits. As it happens, the bronze spring helped to get the KD's to match the height guage. |
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Post by locochris on Nov 19, 2023 16:37:01 GMT -8
Anyone know which modern manufacturers use scale size couplers and which use standard? Example: I know Tangent uses scale couplers. I'm guessing it's close to half and half. I think the more interesting question is on 3-dimensions: 1. Who offers what couplers by head size 2. Who offers what couplers by source (Kadee vs. "other") 3. Who offers what couplers by material This 3-dimensioned comparison is interesting if you consider what manufacturers are offering now (i.e.in 2023). For example: Scale Head - Kadee - Metal: Scale Head - Not Kadee - Metal: Scale Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Standard Head - Kadee - Metal: Standard Head - Not Kadee - Metal: Standard Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Will let someone else fill this in for what manufacturers are offering now with new releases. David Lehlbach Tangent Scale Models
David, you're probably right to expand the question. When I started out in the hobby just a couple years ago my plan was to only replace plastic couplers with metal couplers, and leave metal couplers in place if they were already included with the car or locomotive. However, over time I noticed that standard coupler heads often do not work well coupling with scale (or semi-scale as some prefer) heads. So that got me thinking about which ones would then have to be replaced. Going by your example, this is what I know so far, mostly from this thread:
Scale Head - Kadee - Metal: Tangent, Moloco, Exactrail(so far)
Scale Head - Not Kadee - Metal: ScaleTrains
Scale Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Athearn
Standard Head - Kadee - Metal:
Standard Head - Not Kadee - Metal: Walthers, Rapido, ClassOneModelworks, BLI, Intermountain
Standard Head - Not Kadee - Plastic: Atlas, Bachmann, Bowser
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Post by locochris on Nov 19, 2023 16:39:49 GMT -8
158s work way better than the 58s with the #5 style bronze spring, in my experience. And much better appearance wise without the big fat bronze spring on top too. I bought the green pack of the "scale head" KD's with the bronze springs at train show because the price was reduced - I ended up using most of them on kits. As it happens, the bronze spring helped to get the KD's to match the height guage. I'm sure there are a number of people that prefer 5/58 over 148/158 for that and other reasons. I personally like the whisker couplers better (148/158 style) |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 19, 2023 17:04:42 GMT -8
I personally like the whisker couplers better (148/158 style) So do I, which is why I purchased two 50 pair packs. But since the version with the bronze spring was less than half price, I grabbed it and used them. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 20, 2023 5:53:07 GMT -8
I have a beef with the words "scale head". The Kadee 58 and 158 couplers are at best semi-scale. The term should probably be "small head". But I'm sure "scale head" is more appealing. The small head Kadee has a knuckle height only .01" larger than Sergent. But the overall bulk of the coupler is quite a bit more than than number implies. Ed Yes, the height is probably close to correct. But the width and length are at least 25% too much, and overall the 2D footprint is about 50% more. Hot-linking an image here that's not mine:  |
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Post by packer on Nov 20, 2023 11:00:01 GMT -8
#58's for me, haven't tried #158's 158s work way better than the 58s with the #5 style bronze spring, in my experience. And much better appearance wise without the big fat bronze spring on top too. The copper spring doesn’t fit in scale-width draft gear Although a few Exactrail cars I got came with the plastic coupler Athearn uses? I’m guessing that’s an old thing? |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 20, 2023 12:20:35 GMT -8
If you need the "copper spring" as a shim in a narrow coupler box, a pair of scissors will take care of the modification needed.
Ed
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 20, 2023 16:28:52 GMT -8
Basically what it boils down to is I can buy a 50 or 100 pack of 158s for a reasonable price, I cannot do that with the sargent or sargent adjacent ones, as nice as they may look.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 20, 2023 17:02:10 GMT -8
If what Kadee offers satisfies you, why spend more?
Makes sense to me.
If what Kadee offers does NOT satisfy you, you are gonna have to pay for the wonderfulnesserness.
Ed
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Post by Donnell Wells on Nov 20, 2023 18:02:21 GMT -8
I still think that Kadee can improve the look of their knuckle for a more realistic appearance without sacrificing operability and backward (and forward) compatibility. I may make my own attempt at upgrading the knuckle just to see if it's worth the trouble. I like the look of Sergent and Inventive couplers, but the ease of operation of the Kadee couplers.
Donnell
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Post by oldmuley on Nov 22, 2023 18:42:30 GMT -8
Sergent couplers are the way to go. You're not going to find a better looking coupler.
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