The Best Locomotive Manufacturer is...

[mdq]

I had this particular discussion after an ops I took part of. It was interesting insofar as the major culprit - mediocre QA and QC - 
was a company that makes the news here almost daily. It was voted the worse locomotives.

Having said that which one, according to you, has the best value for the money? Best in fidelity to the prototype, reliability and dependability. 

You can select up to 3 answers (because I feel generous today)

[lars]

While not the highest in detail, I’m going to give some points to Walthers Mainline on the value front, especially when they are on clearance.

[hudsonyard]

First and formost I am an operator. While I love detailing my own and buying diesels that are 100 percent dead nuts on you simply cannot argue with Walthers Proto/Mainline and Atlas as far as a unit you know once the shell is closed and the decoder is programed with never give you an issue, even if out of the box the detailing is a tad bit generic.

[riogrande]

I see Bowser is getting a lot of votes. Unfortunately they have never made anything I need.

[GP40P-2]

Is Rapido pre-determined not to be amongst the best?

[Baikal]

Apr 1, 2024 15:36:40 GMT -8 lars said:

While not the highest in detail, I’m going to give some points to Walthers Mainline on the value front, especially when they are on clearance.

I changed my vote to "Other" = Walther's Mainline.

[redfish]

I took the Walther's option to mean Walther's Mainline. That got my vote, along with Bowser and Atlas.

[kentuckysouthernrwy]

Apr 1, 2024 16:00:16 GMT -8 GP40P-2 said:

Is Rapido pre-determined not to be amongst the best?

Imagine that….

[NS4122]

I can definitely say it's not ScaleTrains. I can't complain about how their stuff looks, but performance has been a significant issue lately. I just had an ES44AC suffer it's third motor failure, which is completely unacceptable. If you throw in 2 other ST models, that's 6 motors that failed after a short period of running. I've been in this hobby for a long time and I've never seen anything like it.

[edwardsutorik]

Apr 1, 2024 15:36:40 GMT -8 lars said:

While not the highest in detail, I’m going to give some points to Walthers Mainline on the value front, especially when they are on clearance.

Just what I was thinking, at least for their EMD switchers. Those are the only Mainline locos I've bought, so I can't carry that over to other models. Yet.


Ed

[locochris]

Yeah, so....Kato does not make HO locomotives currently, and Proto 1000/2000 locomotives haven't been made in how many years?

[edwardsutorik]

Apr 1, 2024 17:07:07 GMT -8 NS4122 said:

I can definitely say it's not ScaleTrains. I can't complain about how their stuff looks, but performance has been a significant issue lately. I just had an ES44AC suffer it's third motor failure, which is completely unacceptable. I've been in this hobby for a long time and I've never seen anything like it.
'

I don't know if I'm lucky, or you're unlucky. So far, all my ScaleTrains locos work just fine, and still have their original motors.

Bowser's pretty good, but my C-628 drags it's snow plows, and my C-630 is awfully close to that. Plus, on the C-628, the coupler lift rods were formed/placed incorrectly. Yup, I'm gonna have to do some of the modeling work, again.


Ed

[mvlandsw]

Considering the price that they can be bought for today, the Proto 2000's are probably the best value once the gears are dealt with.

[12bridge]

Apr 1, 2024 17:17:04 GMT -8 mvlandsw said:

Considering the price that they can be bought for today, the Proto 2000's are probably the best value once the gears are dealt with.

Atleast around here, for what people are (trying) to sell old Proto stock for, I would rather pay a little more and get the new Walthers issues.  

I have seen Proto GP7/9SW1200s at shows with guys asking north of 100$ for them.  I just do not see them being worth that these days.  

[mvlandsw]

Apr 1, 2024 17:22:49 GMT -8 12bridge said:

Apr 1, 2024 17:17:04 GMT -8 mvlandsw said:

Considering the price that they can be bought for today, the Proto 2000's are probably the best value once the gears are dealt with.

At least around here, for what people are (trying) to sell old Proto stock for, I would rather pay a little more and get the new Walthers issues.  

I have seen Proto GP7/9SW1200s at shows with guys asking north of 100$ for them.  I just do not see them being worth that these days.  

For $100 I agree. I see them for around $50.00, sometimes less.

Mark

[five83]

Apr 1, 2024 17:07:07 GMT -8 NS4122 said:

I can definitely say it's not ScaleTrains. I can't complain about how their stuff looks, but performance has been a significant issue lately. I just had an ES44AC suffer it's third motor failure, which is completely unacceptable. If you throw in 2 other ST models, that's 6 motors that failed after a short period of running. I've been in this hobby for a long time and I've never seen anything like it.

Not only that, but their QC issues have definitely been a concern of mine as of late.  

[Tom]

Apr 1, 2024 17:12:32 GMT -8 locochris said:

Yeah, so....Kato does not make HO locomotives currently, and Proto 1000/2000 locomotives haven't been made in how many years?

For Kato, does the current P42 run not count?

EDIT: Apparently, the GP35 was also just shot recently and is available.

[hudsonyard]

Apr 1, 2024 17:12:32 GMT -8 locochris said:

Yeah, so....Kato does not make HO locomotives currently, and Proto 1000/2000 locomotives haven't been made in how many years?

Katos HO scale releases are few and far between, but they do happen. Proto tooling is now Walthers, even though many of them have been retooled from the bottom up.

[michaele]

For me, TRIX, Piko, and SudExpress, in no particular order.

[prr 4467]

I split my vote between Bowser and BLI. Bowser's diesels are a great value for the price and for me beat the others.

The reason I actually voted for BLI is because they have continually improved most particularly their steam offerings. BLI steam locos have gone through constant improvements over the last 20 years, to the point where the latest Paragon 4 steamers are really, really good even or especially when compared to much more expensive full-on brass steam locos currently coming out of Korea (which I have owned and operated on the layout).

A new coworker talked me into trying some steam locos again, and I am very pleasantly surprised with the BLI steamers (have one each E6s, Y6B, and early version UP CSA-2 Challenger, with a factory refurbished I1sa due to arrive today).  I almost always buy factory refurbished to get the 40% to 50% discount and they are typically as good as brand new.  The two recent refurbished ones arrived in virtually perfect condition (had to rub out a couple small marks on the very shiny PRR 460 museum version, which was easy with a little car wax, then a beautiful model).

Note/disclaimer:  I had past issues with a BLI Paragon 3 steam loco (bad motor and decoder), and I generally avoid any P3 models as a result.  However, the final P3 series models are supposed to have an improved, more powerful motor and an improved decoder.

[wagnersteve]

4/2/24, starting 7:59 a.m.

Arguably I shouldn't vote in this, because I haven't been able actually to run any of my locos for a while. But I voted for Bowser and Rapido (my "other") because they have made very good models of real locos I like very much, notably ones built by Alco and/or MLW, as well as Walthers Proto, because the ones I've bought ran well when I tested them. Interesting that Bachmann isn't on the list at all; they do some types I like that otherwise aren't available in affordable versions, including GE 70-tonners and center cab swithchers with side rods. I don't use DCC and can't use sound at home, so I have very limited experience with those features.

[gevohogger]

Apr 1, 2024 16:00:16 GMT -8 GP40P-2 said:

Is Rapido pre-determined not to be amongst the best?

LOL They can't lose if they're not even on the ballot!

A nice touch is separate entries for Proto 1000, Proto 2000, Walthers Proto and "regular" Walthers.

[prr 4467]

While I have had some serious issues with some Rapido products in the past, during 2023 I had actually a lot more issues with some other manufacturers' products: multiple bad motors and bad decoders and they can't even visually tell the difference between the updated "new" version motors and the old ones, so get some of them mixed up--which means they can replace a motor and decoder and then the replacements both fail and I have to send it back AGAIN (a second time) to be repaired. To ST credit they are 100% standing behind their product, and they look as good as brand new when they come back, but we shouldn't have to send a model back twice to get it fixed properly. Oh--and the ESU Loksound decoders should not be failing at such a high rate. (more than 1 of every 3 is or has been failing in the ST units my son and I own).  That greatly exceeds whatever Rapido's failure rate was...

So based upon that I could not vote for ST, and other manufacturers on the list that can be voted for have had inconsistent quality control--some great products and some not.

(To be clear, the motor and decoder outright failures have all been ST units.  Other manufacturers' ESU Loksound equipped units have been ok for me, though I do not always care for the sound).

[jonklein611]

Apr 1, 2024 17:12:32 GMT -8 locochris said:

Yeah, so....Kato does not make HO locomotives currently, and Proto 1000/2000 locomotives haven't been made in how many years?

?

P42 is currently available and runs like a champ. On the other side of the Pacific they also have the C56, D51, DD51, DE10, EF58, EF65, EF510, and EF81 in stock.

[crblue]

BLI, as they're pretty much the only game in town when it comes to high end steam but it's still quite nice.
Walthers Mainline, since they're pretty much bullet proof.
Atlas is a good third, but it could just have easily have been ScaleTrains, they both produce good stuff, but Atlas is slightly less detailed and cheaper.

I just couldn't give Athearn a vote; their regular line is about the same quality as modern Bachmann, and the vast majority of their genesis stuff doesn't have LED lighting.

[riogrande]

Atlas have generally been good and reliable runners, but a little short on prototypical details compared to other top shelf brands.

Walthers also generally been top runners, but again, slow to get out models with signature details.

I've heard about the motor issues with some ScaleTrains diesels so I need to get mine tested soon.

BLI, at least for diesels, I've generally avoided. The only diesels I bought were the RSD-15's because they were the only game in town in plastic and offered Utah Rwy. They offered the SP SD45 with the correct details but a trusted modeler recommended I pass them by and wait for ScaleTrains to offer them. BLI diesels electronics, well, most say they have to rip them out anyway and install Loksound or Tsu2. They just aren't up to ScaleTrains/Genesis level.

[prr 4467]

Simply testing ST diesels won't show if there's a problem. They all run great right out of the box. It's as you run them that the failures tend to occur. You can watch the amperage draw increase (on the dcc system) and that is the first clue that there is a problem. Once the amperage draw increases significantly to where the loco is at 0.60 amps or higher, it will most likely need to go back to ST for repair. They think that once you get beyond 3 to 4 hours of running time on a loco that you are generally going to be ok. The failures typically occur in the first couple hours of use, and again, all of ours ran great right out of the box--there was no sign of any issue whatsoever at the beginning, and like models ran together or were certainly well enough matched that they could easily run together (I check for that also by running multiples at the same time, but not coupled together). 

Most recently brand-new ST or Athearn Genesis diesels are in the 0.30 amps or less range with the sound on and all lights on and maybe even a moderate length train behind them.  The Bowser units seem to draw slightly less current than that.

Also, if one runs noticeably warmer to the touch than others, keep an eye on the amperage of that particular unit.  That said, I have Genesis and Atlas Master Series units that run a bit warmer than others and they seem to be ok.

When mine failed, it was quickly--a train running around the layout increased amperage significantly over several minutes to as much as a half hour, and the loco became erratic in performance.

[sd80mac]

I will throw my hat in for Walthers, specifically their Proto stuff. Great blend of detail, durability, weight, and smooth running characteristics.

[riogrande]

Apr 2, 2024 7:26:11 GMT -8 prr 4467 said:

Simply testing ST diesels won't show if there's a problem. They all run great right out of the box. It's as you run them that the failures tend to occur. You can watch the amperage draw increase (on the dcc system) and that is the first clue that there is a problem. Once the amperage draw increases significantly to where the loco is at 0.60 amps or higher, it will most likely need to go back to ST for repair. They think that once you get beyond 3 to 4 hours of running time on a loco that you are generally going to be ok. The failures typically occur in the first couple hours of use, and again, all of ours ran great right out of the box--there was no sign of any issue whatsoever at the beginning, and like models ran together or were certainly well enough matched that they could easily run together (I check for that also by running multiples at the same time, but not coupled together). 

Most recently brand-new ST or Athearn Genesis diesels are in the 0.30 amps or less range with the sound on and all lights on and maybe even a moderate length train behind them.  The Bowser units seem to draw slightly less current than that.

Also, if one runs noticeably warmer to the touch than others, keep an eye on the amperage of that particular unit.  That said, I have Genesis and Atlas Master Series units that run a bit warmer than others and they seem to be ok.

When mine failed, it was quickly--a train running around the layout increased amperage significantly over several minutes to as much as a half hour, and the loco became erratic in performance.

Some have reported their ST engines show poor performance right away, other it didn't show up until the unit was run for a while.

I did message ScaleTrains and they said the issue has to be brought to them within 2 years. My layout isn't up and running quite yet so I guess I'm under the gun to get it running to properly check the engines.

[prr 4467]

Interesting. I did not know.

The Heritage units from November of 2023 seem to be ok so far. It was units delivered earlier during 2023 and 2022 that seem to have issues.

Units imported prior to 2022 should be ok, so far as I am aware.