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Post by ncrc5315 on Apr 5, 2024 9:57:29 GMT -8
While laid up, I found a Life Like Proto 2000 GP 20 in storage, and thought I would finally take it out of the box, and get it running. When I went to clean up the gears, found the axle gears were already split. Where can I purchase replacements?
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Apr 5, 2024 10:36:15 GMT -8
Athearn 60024.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Apr 5, 2024 12:35:48 GMT -8
Walthers makes sets with wheels and gears.
A-Line makes the gears
Have seen both on eBay listings, in fact I recently purchased Walthers 6 axle set and 4 axle sets there.
If you’re into redoing Proto 2000 stuff axle gears should be a default purchase. I recently did 7 Alco FA/B units and 27 of the 28 axles were split.
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Post by hudsonyard on Apr 5, 2024 13:46:05 GMT -8
Our diesel guy at the club was in the middle of converting all of the older early 2000s era protos to swapped out stewart f-unit drives. i think after the second or third go around of swapping them over the years he had had enough, he was adamant that the design of the proto gear towers eventually causes the gears to crack, even the athearn replacements.
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Post by mvlandsw on Apr 5, 2024 14:05:02 GMT -8
I don't think that it's the gear tower design causing all the gear cracking. It's the force fit of the gears onto the axles. The Stewart/Kato drives are not immune. Most of mine have cracks in the hub that do not affect the toothed part of the gear, but the axle slips and does not produce any tractive effort. The wheels can also go out of gage.
Mark Vinski
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 6, 2024 10:06:58 GMT -8
The gear cracks because it's a tad too tight and the plastic becomes brittle or has some issue as it ages. I presumed when LL cloned the parts there was some translation from English to metric that was off a smidge.
But I have a dead line of about a dozen of my dad's locomotives that all have split gears - and some of them are pure Athearn. One is a Stewart with Athearn drive in it. The only real difference seems to be every single Proto will split eventually, whether you run it until the brushes are gone or it's never been out of the box. Athearn are a crapshoot, most won't crack but some do.
The last time I changed some with the 60024 I found opening up the ends a bit with a knife helped them start easier. Probably a bit of dish soap or some plastic-safe lubricant would help also.
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Post by loco8107 on Apr 6, 2024 15:11:59 GMT -8
I believe that issue has been corrected with the more recent Protos?
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 6, 2024 15:40:20 GMT -8
Only the Athearn-clone drive has this issue. Helical drive engines don't.
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Post by ncrc5315 on Apr 6, 2024 16:22:49 GMT -8
I got some of the 60024 gears from Athearn, and they are really too tight to press on. I'm thinking I'm going to drill out the gear, then use a Loctite Retaining Compound, to ensure it stays together. Speaking of Loctite: May have to model that locomotive.
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Post by loco8107 on Apr 7, 2024 15:36:47 GMT -8
Only the Athearn-clone drive has this issue. Helical drive engines don't. Which is odd as I never heard of Athearn engines having that issue |
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Post by ncrc5315 on Apr 7, 2024 17:18:41 GMT -8
I drilled out the Athearn gears, (60024) with a 3/32" drill bit, they slide on much easier, but still have more then enough friction not to slip.
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Post by drolsen on Apr 7, 2024 17:27:28 GMT -8
Only the Athearn-clone drive has this issue. Helical drive engines don't. Which is odd as I never heard of Athearn engines having that issue That’s why people have always used the Athearn gears as replacements. It had something to do with the type of plastic that LL used for the gears. As already mentioned, it dried out and became brittle over the years. It was only the GP 4-axle trucks that were a clone of Athearn’s design. When the LL BL-2 was first released, LL made way too many of them, and dealers started dumping them. I recall people buying them cheap to repower Athearn GPs because the drive train was smoother. The grease they used in the gearbox was also notorious for drying out and turning into something like dry peanut butter. If you ever buy a used LL P2K diesel, you should disassemble it and clean out the gears, while checking for cracked gears, before running it. Since those LL diesels are ~25 years old now, they’re pretty much guaranteed to have cracked gears at this point. Dave |
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 7, 2024 19:16:29 GMT -8
No, I have a few Athearn engines that have had it happen. One was a GP40-2 that I took apart probably 20 years ago and found all the gears broken. Another is a custom bashed SDP45 that wouldn't run. It's not nearly as common but it does happen. My dad thinks his early Stewart AS16 may have some bad gears, I haven't looked at it yet but apparently it has the clunk clunk noise.
Also, the Athearn RS3 is going to have this problem. These were an MDC engine and towards the end MDC put Proto drives in them. From what I can see when Horizon made them an Athearn product they continued to use the Proto drive as the examples I've had have the same differences from the original Athearn - and have had split gears.
It may be the type of plastic, it may be that when LL's people copied the Athearn they got the dimensions off a bit, it could be both things. You can drive the half axles into the gear, I have done them - had a pair of NOS GP30s a while back that also had the lube turn to paste - but it takes a fair amount of force.
It's easy to check the gears, if you can spin the drive wheels with your thumb while holding the engine, they're cracked.
Not just the B-B locomotives but some of the E units have the same gears. I too remember them being dumped for like $25 a shot in 1994. I did just what Dave mentioned, put the guts from one into an Athearn engine. Which is when I discovered the other thing LL's China people messed up is they mirrored the trucks - the metal tab that in an Athearn would go to the contact strip that snaps on the motor, is on the opposite side of the truck. This is an issue if you put them into a GP38/40/50 chassis - Athearn made those so the tab only fits one way. So the engine will run backwards to everything else if you just assemble it as normal.
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Post by wp8thsub on Apr 7, 2024 19:36:54 GMT -8
Which is odd as I never heard of Athearn engines having that issue I've had several Athearn drives with the same problem. None of these were recent, however. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Apr 8, 2024 14:36:56 GMT -8
I just reconditioned the trucks on a NOS Proto E8. The gears all appeared to be fine BUT the brass wheels were nearly black so I replaced them with Wheels and Gears from Walters with nickle/chrome wheels. Its still in progress so has not been tested.
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