Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 6:09:02 GMT -8
I agree with Jim to a point. The IM car is the best bang for the buck if you want a finely detailed car that is RTR. I think "stuck in the 80's" might be a tad harsh though. It's not like they come with x2f couplers anymore . I've always been impressed with the amount of detail they could get being the few pieces that actually make up one of their cars. The amount of Trainman and Walthers Mainline models tells me that there has to be a fair amount of market share that is happy with this level of detail. The fact that the Accurail car is a kit, I don't think hurts it much if any, since most can be put together in 5-10 minutes. Since couplers are commonly replaced in most cars, they are a non-issue, but the wheel sets are their biggest detriment IMHO.
As for cost: If it is $18 retail, then that would put it inline with the Trainman hopper after you replaced the wheel sets, but the street price on these I think will need to be under $14. If it isn't, then Jim is dead on, why not buy the IM car for a few dollars more that it set to go out of the box. Down the road, this might still be a good investment for Accurail though. The currently falling dollar and rising cost of foreign labor could possibly make these more cost competitive in the future. Trevor Any Accurail kit when built looks like Athearn Genesis when compared to some of the stuff in Walthers Trainline. Some of that Trainline is really train set stuff. Can't comment on Walthers Mainline as I've not studied it closely since Walthers rolled out the new names. Currently an Accurail ACF center flow model carries an MSRP of $16.00 and discounted price of $12.00 at M.B. Klein(Klein's are one of the cheapest retailers). Not bad at all even if you replace the wheels. BUT.........remember that an Intermountain car comes with real Kadee number five couplers. So you really do need to factor in the buck and a half for coupler replacement on the Accurail kit. So with wheels AND couplers the Accurail car is around $16.00 to $17.00. A fleet of Accurail is still going to cost you some money. But you will be saving a little less than $10 per car versus Intermountain. The difference does add up especially if you buy multiple cars. If the new 4750 from Accurail is more than $16.00 MSRP then the savings really start to shrink. That is when you need to consider bang for the buck.
|
|
|
Post by marknycfan on Aug 23, 2013 19:39:19 GMT -8
Silly question...a 4750is a 4750...IM & Tangent make real nice expensive ones, Atlas has one in the Trainman line so why does AccuRail make a 4th as a kit?
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Aug 24, 2013 3:58:30 GMT -8
Silly question...a 4750is a 4750...IM & Tangent make real nice expensive ones, Atlas has one in the Trainman line so why does AccuRail make a 4th as a kit? Not really there are subtle and not so subtle differences in the design of High Hip 4750CF Covered Hoppers. The Tangent, IM and Accurail cars are all Pullman Standard Cars, and Tangent offers different variations based on the year of production and the style of brakes. The Atlas car is a Thrall produced car and is visually different than the Pullman Standard car. It would have been good for Accurail to produce one of the other 4750CF cars like those of Evans (A PS Clone), Richmond Tank, Berwick, Intgalls,Trinity and various railroad shops like N&W and UP. Here is a source for determining the different type of car, also includes other CF sizes in the high hip design. fcix.info/ref_sheets/ref006.pdffcix.info/ref_sheets/ref007.pdfRick J
|
|
|
Post by shoofly on Aug 24, 2013 4:10:46 GMT -8
IM - ribs are over sized, Tangent's are perfect but additional detail comes at a price, Trainman is a Thrall 4750 - so doesn't apply to this thread, Accurail's is a simple to build kit and manufactured in the US. Price is hopefully in line with the rest of Accurail's offerings therefore a budget car.
I got to say, the accurail ACF 4600 corrugated horizontal stiffener right below the roof looks dead on. I can't say the same for the IM and Atlas 4650s corrugated horizontal stiffeners. Maybe it's nit picky, but something was lost in translation on what some would call a "high end" car...the etched roof walks leave much to be desired as well. There's certainly room for improvement on any ACF Centerflow still. I agree the 2600 really is an outstanding model. One that I hope influences the level of detail for future ACF products.
|
|
|
Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 24, 2013 12:53:52 GMT -8
Chris, I'm with you. Yeah, you may get all of the included and assembled detail with the $32-$35 RTR Intermountain hopper, and a bit more for the $43 Tangent, but with the Accurail kit your getting a blank canvas (be it decorated or undecorated) at your disposal to fully customize. Add $9 for Plano roof walks, and another $5-$7 for wire for various grabs and piping, some couplers, and a train line hose, and at the extreme end, you are just about at the cost of the Intermountain hopper, maybe out a little modeling time, but still under that of the more expensive Tangent model. The big plus is that you have full creative control over the amount of detail you want to add, as well as the quality of the build itself. Finally, after assembly is all said and done, you get to place the car into revenue service and admire your own work! I'd say that's a pretty good return on investment, as well as some modeling "bang!"
Donnell
|
|
|
Post by stevewagner on Aug 24, 2013 14:00:02 GMT -8
Donnell (and others),
As one of the earlier posters on this thread noted, the roof walk on Accurail's covered hopper -- unlike those on its other cars -- is molded as part of the roof, so replacing it with a Plano or other see-through running board is quite a project.
|
|
|
Post by atsfan on Aug 24, 2013 14:08:25 GMT -8
Putting a Plano roofwalk on the Accurail will be a long low slog.
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Aug 24, 2013 14:24:37 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by nscaler711 on Aug 24, 2013 14:27:36 GMT -8
Those look great.
it might be a project but not difficult when you have a dremel lol
but if you want to fill up a consist the Accurail kits are perfect for that, also throw them in the middle of the consist or set them in the yard away from IM Tangent or exactrail models, i've seen this done at shows, you don't really notice the middle of the train you tend to look at the lead locomotives and the last few cars..
|
|
|
Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 24, 2013 15:05:59 GMT -8
Come on guys, you're not afraid of a little modeling, are you?!
|
|
|
Post by nscaler711 on Aug 24, 2013 15:07:42 GMT -8
Come on guys, you're not afraid of a little modeling, are you?! Kissy face?!?
|
|
|
Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 24, 2013 15:16:39 GMT -8
Not on my screen...
|
|
|
Post by nscaler711 on Aug 24, 2013 15:19:24 GMT -8
Odd must be the mobile site then Lol Anyways.... *brings out big hook* topic derailed
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Aug 24, 2013 15:45:12 GMT -8
Those look great. it might be a project but not difficult when you have a dremel lol Dremel?! There's no way I'd have any power tool near the exterior of a model to do cleanup like this. This is more of a project for some flush cutting nippers and files. One slip of the power tool and it's bye-bye model.
|
|
|
Post by nscaler711 on Aug 24, 2013 15:48:38 GMT -8
Its not hard if you have a steady hand, I use a dremel stylus for everything even used a fine disc to remove a walk way and ladders on a n scale boxcar, looked great too... i wish i still had pictures though... i use my phone for everything since my laptop crashed
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Aug 24, 2013 15:55:43 GMT -8
Those look great. it might be a project but not difficult when you have a dremel lol Dremel?! There's no way I'd have any power tool near the exterior of a model to do cleanup like this. This is more of a project for some flush cutting nippers and files. One slip of the power tool and it's bye-bye model. I used side cutters, and X-Acto with a #17 Blade and final cleanup with a Dremel with steel cutting head. The Disecting Needle under the Dremel was used to mark the holes for the roofwalk supports. Rick J
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Aug 24, 2013 16:00:43 GMT -8
Those look great. it might be a project but not difficult when you have a dremel lol I have a dremel and two D&RGW orange 3 bay Accurail CF4600 hoppers that I've wanted to convert into 4-bay CF5200 hoppers. I've got enough bottoms to kitbash a couple of 4-bay bottoms and the roof walk needs to be changed to the 13 rib like in the example given. Lacking a real CF5200 this would make a good stand in. I tried to use side cutters to remove the roof walk on one of them and what I had must have been inadequate, it barely put a dent into the thick plastic supports to the Accurail roof walk.
|
|
|
Post by atsfan on Aug 24, 2013 17:17:58 GMT -8
An hour?
|
|
|
Post by shoofly on Aug 24, 2013 17:26:01 GMT -8
Yeah guys it's just a little plastic, side clippers, dremel, sand....voila! Done this with Front Range too, it's not so bad. As far as detail, personally the only thing I would consider modifying on accurail is the roof walks, the rest i can hide with a little paint Chris
|
|
|
Post by nscaler711 on Aug 24, 2013 17:31:36 GMT -8
Those look great. it might be a project but not difficult when you have a dremel lol I have a dremel and two D&RGW orange 3 bay Accurail CF4600 hoppers that I've wanted to convert into 4-bay CF5200 hoppers. I've got enough bottoms to kitbash a couple of 4-bay bottoms and the roof walk needs to be changed to the 13 rib like in the example given. Lacking a real CF5200 this would make a good stand in. I tried to use side cutters to remove the roof walk on one of them and what I had must have been inadequate, it barely put a dent into the thick plastic supports to the Accurail roof walk. I have Two Xuron rail nippers just for this reason also, one for cutting rail, and the other for plastics and occasionally small brass stock. Use the rail nippers for tough plastic studs then go in with a dremel and if you cut something in half obviously use a small hack saw or miter saw.
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Aug 24, 2013 17:31:52 GMT -8
I used side cutters, and X-Acto with a #17 Blade and final cleanup with a Dremel with steel cutting head. Rick J Rick, You are a braver man than I. I used a rotary tool to take some material off the inside of an Athearn GP38-2 shell, but I knew there was no chance I would damage any detail in the process. I can't trust myself if I'm working on anything detailed. I've had one of those mistakes before and it came way late in the detailing process.
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Aug 24, 2013 17:32:21 GMT -8
Finished Product, after paint and decals. Also added airlines under side sill and from air reservoir to triple valve. Rick J
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 24, 2013 17:55:21 GMT -8
I strongly recommend that you NEVER use a toothed cutter in a Dremel tool for removing plastic. One false move and........
I have been using various grinding heads in my Dremel for that purpose--upwards of 50 years. They won't dig in and "walk" like a toothed tool.
My favorites are Mizzy wheels. They're flat disks, sorta like a cutoff wheel but an eighth inch thick.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by riogrande on Aug 24, 2013 18:21:53 GMT -8
I have Two Xuron rail nippers just for this reason also, one for cutting rail, and the other for plastics and occasionally small brass stock. Use the rail nippers for tough plastic studs then go in with a dremel and if you cut something in half obviously use a small hack saw or miter saw. I have one Xuron rail nipper but would using it on plactic ruin it? My thoughts are plastic is soft enough that it would ok. I've alwaays heard use the Xuron on only rail, but I thought that is because harder metals would ruin them. NS track is relatively soft for a metal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 18:38:36 GMT -8
Come on guys, you're not afraid of a little modeling, are you?! Unfortunately the trend of the hobby is RTR or bust. Plus, by the time you add up the kit, wheels, couplers, parts, decals and paint, you've equaled or exceeded an RTR car in some instances. Not to drag this in the direction of the hobby is dying, but decals are now $8.00 per set, paint is $6.00 a bottle, detail parts go up in price all the time, it adds up in a hurry. I've done the calculations on some of my builds and the numbers are getting larger. Let's not forget discontinued paint colors, decals and parts, along with stuff being out of stock for months on end, adds to fun.
|
|
|
Post by curtmc on Aug 24, 2013 18:49:47 GMT -8
Finished Product, after paint and decals. Also added airlines under side sill and from air reservoir to triple valve. Rick J Looks better, but after all that time (2 hours?+), effort and cost of extra parts ($20?), is it really worth it for a car that looks basically the same from 4 feet or more away due to the end cages?
|
|
|
Post by dti406 on Aug 24, 2013 19:31:40 GMT -8
Curt, I don't have $20.00 in the whole car, I got a box of these cars for $5.00 ea off of E-Bay, $7.00 for a roofwalk, $1.00 for wire and eyebolts, the decals came in a lot for about $1.50 each, and metal wheels for $2.20, I don't count the couplers as every car gets replaced, and I can paint 20 cars with a $6.00 bottle of paint.
I am not going to wait years for someone to come out with an ACF 4600CF Covered Hopper, my two favorite Railroads rostered these cars, so this will have to do, and you can't see the end cages in a moving train at 2' let along 4'.
And my time doesn't count as I enjoy building and modifying cars and locomotives more than other parts of the hobby.
Ed, I have never had a problem using the steel cutting head in a Dremel, it is my favorite tool for removing and final finishing plastic and metal.
Rick J
|
|
|
Post by nscaler711 on Aug 24, 2013 21:47:43 GMT -8
I have Two Xuron rail nippers just for this reason also, one for cutting rail, and the other for plastics and occasionally small brass stock. Use the rail nippers for tough plastic studs then go in with a dremel and if you cut something in half obviously use a small hack saw or miter saw. I have one Xuron rail nipper but would using it on plactic ruin it? My thoughts are plastic is soft enough that it would ok. I've alwaays heard use the Xuron on only rail, but I thought that is because harder metals would ruin them. NS track is relatively soft for a metal. I have no problems using the rail nippers on plastic, they may not be as sharp as the other ones I use for rail, due to cutting top to bottom of rail in a sense can sharpen the nippers, never cut rail by its sides... even N or Z like it tells you i have used them to cut z scale rail just like i have HO rail all you need is a small file to clean up the edge. Anyways rotary tools are very handy removing unwanted items when you have the right bits. I prefer using the sanding discs for clean up they get into tight spaces like the ribbing on a boxcar as for the walkway stand offs on a hopper cut below the actual walk way with a cutting disc, then go in with a sprue cutter or in my case rail nipper and nip off the stand off... I do this with the D ends of sectional track and I get pretty good results.
|
|
tr1
New Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by tr1 on Aug 25, 2013 0:47:28 GMT -8
Come on guys, you're not afraid of a little modeling, are you?! Comments, on the previous video:from, what I rememder,the river did not,reflect the realism of nature.Such as having the proper earth-sky hue, color. Unless its stagnent and polluted water from industry "up" stream.Waterflows down hill reflecting lightfrom the sun and sky,so again,itis my opinion that waterflows down hill and should reflect that as best aspossible.The representation had the wrong color hue,in my opinion.tr1(Atlas g.g.&n.)@modeltrainforums.com
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2013 19:01:24 GMT -8
I agree with Curt on this one...actually...the roof walk work is excellent!!! But, why not go ahead and rebuild the end cages and remove/replace the stirrups as well? I would also add the air reservoir lines back to the triple valve.
I have a couple of undecorated cars here...these cars would be an excellent project for Plano Model Products to make an end cage kit, IMO.
|
|