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Post by snootie3257 on Aug 18, 2013 9:54:57 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Aug 18, 2013 10:39:24 GMT -8
There are 2 test shot photos of the upcoming Accurail 4750. These haven't been metioned yet so I thought I would. Steve Draper Not posted here yes; someone posted those same photo's at TrainOrders on the 15th... decent looking cars of a model already out from Intermountain and Tangent. But puzzling since two manufacturers make same/similar car aleady. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 11:49:45 GMT -8
Someone needs to memo Accurail that the year is 2013 and not 1980. Molded on grab irons and thick roof walks may have been acceptable thirty years ago, but is behind the times now. Granted the Accurail car assembled will be a little less expensive than the Intermountain car, but its not that much.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Aug 18, 2013 12:17:42 GMT -8
I talked to Accurail when they first hinted these were coming. They told me it was less expensive to mold as one piece body. I guess I could take the cast grab irons/railing, but wish they would have cast the roof walk as a separate piece. No way this will be an easy conversion to Plano.
A few years back I tried to "Plano-ize" one of the Accurail ACF covered hoppers.....never again! Bob
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Post by riogrande on Aug 18, 2013 12:28:59 GMT -8
If one wants separate grab irons, simply buy the Tangent models. Others have pointed out that there is a market for lower priced models, although it depends on the price whether that niche will be filled by the Accurail model vs the more detailed expensive models. Time will tell.
As for molded on roofwalks, I agree, bad idea. I have a number of the Accurail CF4600 hoppers which also have molded on roof walks. I wanted to convert a couple to D&RGW 4-bay CF5200 which are pretty close in many ways, but the roof walk was a major issue. It's a huge problem to chisel that thing off.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 18, 2013 12:39:54 GMT -8
Looks OK. It has to be priced right though.
I wish they had the roof walk as a separate piece attached to the tabs on the roof itself.
That way you could drop a Plano roofwalk on top easily if you wanted to.
I am anxious to see the price on these and the paint jobs. I will be getting a few and weather them up.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Aug 18, 2013 13:28:35 GMT -8
Ugh. Hearing everyone's experiences with trying to Plano roofwalk an Accurail ACF 4600 begs a Exactrail/Tangent/Athearn model. I need a huge fleet for grain. I would guess the Accurail 4750 roofwalk replacement would be just as difficult.
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Post by fr8kar on Aug 18, 2013 13:53:20 GMT -8
I agree, an updated 4600 is a much needed model. Like the 4600, this 4750 should fit in nicely with Accurail's line of cars: not too fragile that you can't operate them (and by operate, I mean trust them to club operators). I'm not sure where the street price will fall on these, but hopefully it's competitive with Intermountain 4750 kits and older RTR on ebay otherwise I don't see it making much of a splash.
For those who want etched roofwalks, I'd recommend the Intermountain kit or the Tangent kit. It's one thing to hack away at the Accurail 4600 because there's no alternative, but there's just no reason to fool with upgrading this new model if it's going to be a similar task.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 18, 2013 14:12:37 GMT -8
There must be something about manufacturing models of ACF grain cars. Have there been any since the Atlas ones introduced in the previous century?
How about some high quality 4600's and 5250's?
They'll sell a lot better around here than a tank train.
Ed
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Post by curtmc on Aug 18, 2013 14:15:55 GMT -8
Looks like a $5, maybe $6 car... No more. If that isn't their price point they are going to have trouble in a market with high end $40 Tangent models and $10-$15 secondary market Intermountain models (like there were many of at the last two Timonium shows). Even at $20-$25 Intermountain RTR 4750 cars would be better bargains than a $15 Accurail kit...
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Post by ouengr on Aug 18, 2013 14:33:03 GMT -8
Looking forward to them. I am sick of the overpriced and falling into a million pieces models with the $40 to $50 price tags. On the layout, your cannot tell much of a difference between the IM and the Accurail once weathered. If you want to pay more for more detail then be my guest but stop attacking a manufacturer because they do not meet your lofty standards.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 18, 2013 15:39:15 GMT -8
Where are new IM cars selling for $15? Not odd roads in one off auctions of eBay, but real world where can I buy IM cars for $15?
I gotta get in on that action.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 15:39:17 GMT -8
Previous Accurail kits of grain hoppers sell for about $13, you'll need to replace to wheels as Accurail still puts the cheapest of cheap one piece cast wheel and axle in the kits. So add on a couple of dollars, Intermountain axles are now about $0.75 each. Total before tax is roughly $15.00. If its done as an RTR model, it will come with decent wheels and cost around $20.
Tangent on sale is $35. Intermountain's 4750 can be purchased new for $26. The price difference between Accuready(Accurail RTR) and Intermountain RTR isn't that big of gap.
Curt is actually right in many ways. Compared to the better detailed models such as Intermountain this car is overpriced for what you get for your $20. Plus, the Accuready car comes with Accumate coupler(yuck) versus real metal Kadee number 5's on the Intermountain. The price difference between the two models got even less.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 18, 2013 15:43:09 GMT -8
Where are Tangent cars on sale for $30?
Not one off odd roadnames sold once on eBay, but, where can I buy their new grain hoppers for $30?
I will be glad to find a link to somewhere selling Tangent Grain Hoppers for $30 please.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 18, 2013 15:55:57 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 16:18:55 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Aug 18, 2013 16:23:25 GMT -8
Obviously Accurail isn't going to sell newly tooled models for $5-$6, that is having a laugh as my wife would say.
ay.
But the point is well taken when you try to justify yet another 4750 model with new tooling, how is it going to fit into the current market at a price point that makes sense when you can buy new Intermountain 4750's with pretty good detail for $26 street price. If Accurail offers their comparitively less detailed hopper that would sell for street price of $22, for example, would the 4 dollar price difference justify a model with molded on roof walks? Chances are the way pricing goes these days with newly tooled models, Accurails would sell street price for nearly the same as the IMR cars, which makes little sense.
It will be interesting to see what does happen. I'm not a big collector of grain cars so this is mainly just interesting to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2013 16:37:29 GMT -8
Yes yes, those of us who have been to Timonium have picked up Intermountain grain cars on the secondary market for pretty cheap, but newly tooled models don't sell for that. Apples and oranges. Obviously Accurail isn't going to sell newly tooled models for $5-$6, that is having a laugh as my wife would say. But the point is well taken when you try to justify yet another 4750 model with new tooling, how is it going to fit into the current market at a price point that makes sense when you can buy new Intermountain 4750's with pretty good detail for $26 street price. If Accurail offers their comparitively less detailed hopper that would sell for street price of $22, for example, would the 4 dollar price difference justify a model with molded on roof walks? Chances are the way pricing goes these days with newly tooled models, Accurails would sell street price for nearly the same as the IMR cars, which makes little sense. It will be interesting to see what does happen. I'm not a big collector of grain cars so this is mainly just interesting to watch. The only way the Accurail car makes sense is if you buy kits. You still need to upgrade the wheels at the very least and that is another two to three dollars. This leaves the Accurail car about $7 to $8 less expensive than the Intermountain. What we have here is a conundrum. In RTR form the Accuready car is only a couple of dollars cheaper than the Intermountain car so which model gives you more "bang for the buck"? |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 18, 2013 17:14:14 GMT -8
Kits would make more sense, to find a price niche.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 18, 2013 17:19:08 GMT -8
Their current grain car kit is $18. Less wheels and couplers (beyond the throw aways they come with).
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Post by shoofly on Aug 18, 2013 17:20:34 GMT -8
From what I understand this 4750 will be offered only as a kit and made in the USA.
Not 100% sure about Accuready but I'm under the impression that Accurail is going back to kits and keep production in the USA.
If this is true across the board, then awesome. Welcome back home Accurail.
Personally I think the model looks pretty darn good for being a one piece body. The ribs certainly look better then the IM cars. I agree with a little weathering, this car will hold up in a train. As for the roof walk, it probably would take some work to put on a Plano. I'm sure people wanting that level of detail will weigh the points of each model then choose accordingly. Detail comes at a price either way. One thing that is beyond price is supporting manufacturers that are producing in the USA...some feel strongly that it is important to do. For those, this is the perfect model.
Chris Palomarez
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Post by wp8thsub on Aug 18, 2013 17:46:36 GMT -8
From what I understand this 4750 will be offered only as a kit and made in the USA. Not 100% sure about Accuready but I'm under the impression that Accurail is going back to kits and keep production in the USA. I've seen that reported elsewhere also. I think the 4750 will be offered in kit form only, and that Accurail is phasing out Accuready. Agreed. This car is a shake-the-box train filler. People looking for great models that can be appreciated as individuals will continue to gravitate toward Tangent's car, but Accurail should sell tons of these to guys looking to expand rosters for other reasons. When Accurail first announced the 4750, I seem to recall them saying the running boards would be separate parts so a Plano replacement could be readily added. I don't see much of a value proposition for upgrading to expensive detail parts on an Accurail car vs. the Tangent model or living with the compromises of Intermountain's car. Given the likely customer, I think Accurail made a sensible call opting for reducing cost. |
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Post by drolsen on Aug 18, 2013 18:13:13 GMT -8
There must be something about manufacturing models of ACF grain cars. Have there been any since the Atlas ones introduced in the previous century? How about some high quality 4600's and 5250's? In my opinion, the Athearn ACF 2970 is the ideal level of detail for quality models of the ACF 4600 and 5250. I was disappointed in the latest Atlas ACF models - the 5701, 5748, and 5800 - with their heavier molded end cages, solid roofwalk supports, and generic running boards with no panel lines. I think we'll see quality 4600s and 5250s in the next few years, but I hope whoever does them will offer both major body styles: Early ACF 4600 with horizontal side stiffener:  Late ACF 4600 without horizontal stiffener (the Accurail model):  ACF 5250s also exhibit this early and later body style. Atlas and Intermountain both offered those two variations on their ACF 4650 models, and it might be that some manufacturers are reluctant to tackle these cars because of the two body shells this requires. THey would definitely be a good seller though - I'd personally buy upwards of 50 or 60 ACF 4600s for my CSX fleet. Dave |
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wsor
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The Route of the Ruptured Duck
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Post by wsor on Aug 18, 2013 23:09:08 GMT -8
The Accuready stuff was molded in USA, then sent to China for assembly, then shipped back. Accurail has given up on this and is now just making kits.
If you are a SOO modeler, the IM car might be OK, if you can overlook the oversize ribs.
The Accurail should be a more common version with normal brake rigging, instead of truck mount, and proper ribs.
At Trainfest I suggested they use some sort of spacer on the bolster, to be left off if using 36" wheels, or added to use the Accurail standard 33" wheels. We'll see what happens.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 19, 2013 2:56:45 GMT -8
Looking at it further the tooling of the roof is rather amazing if it is truly one piece.
How did the tool the roof and then the roofwalk just above it ?
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Post by nscaler711 on Aug 19, 2013 3:59:38 GMT -8
I will post a picture of what a fully weathered Accurail car looks like later. i hope you wont mind the colorful paint though  |
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Post by nscaler711 on Aug 20, 2013 0:10:20 GMT -8
Here is one picture that I promised earlier, sorry for the graffiti but because its my RR, I allow what you'd call degenerates to write on my equipment.  |
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Post by riogrande on Aug 20, 2013 1:52:29 GMT -8
Mellow Mike used to post photo's of Accurail cars he weathered and frankly the weathering added "apparent" detail to the cars making them look quite good!
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Post by atsfan on Aug 20, 2013 2:35:55 GMT -8
Accurail fills a nice niche.
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Post by tdspeedracer on Aug 20, 2013 5:52:26 GMT -8
I agree with Jim to a point. The IM car is the best bang for the buck if you want a finely detailed car that is RTR. I think "stuck in the 80's" might be a tad harsh though. It's not like they come with x2f couplers anymore . I've always been impressed with the amount of detail they could get being the few pieces that actually make up one of their cars. The amount of Trainman and Walthers Mainline models tells me that there has to be a fair amount of market share that is happy with this level of detail. The fact that the Accurail car is a kit, I don't think hurts it much if any, since most can be put together in 5-10 minutes. Since couplers are commonly replaced in most cars, they are a non-issue, but the wheel sets are their biggest detriment IMHO.
As for cost: If it is $18 retail, then that would put it inline with the Trainman hopper after you replaced the wheel sets, but the street price on these I think will need to be under $14. If it isn't, then Jim is dead on, why not buy the IM car for a few dollars more that it set to go out of the box. Down the road, this might still be a good investment for Accurail though. The currently falling dollar and rising cost of foreign labor could possibly make these more cost competitive in the future. Trevor |
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