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Post by onequiknova on Nov 14, 2013 15:53:35 GMT -8
What exactly did Bowser improve on the old Stewart U25B? I'd like to build a U25B one of these days and would prefer to just pick up a Cheaper Stewart with the Kato drive if I could. It will be a pretty extensive rebuild with wire hand rails and so forth. Is there any advantage to the Bowser version? Was the shell retooled at all?
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Post by bnsf971 on Nov 14, 2013 16:03:44 GMT -8
I own both, and the shells themselves look identical. The molds may have been cleaned up a bit, but the biggest improvements seem to be the detail parts. Handrails, grab irons, lighting, things like that. I like how the Kato powered U25 runs, and like how the Chinese/Bowser U25 looks.
Be aware when you go looking for Stewart U25Bs, some early ones had Athearn drives. Not surprisingly,they ran like Athearns of the day.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 16:31:48 GMT -8
What exactly did Bowser improve on the old Stewart U25B? I'd like to build a U25B one of these days and would prefer to just pick up a Cheaper Stewart with the Kato drive if I could. It will be a pretty extensive rebuild with wire hand rails and so forth. Is there any advantage to the Bowser version? Was the shell retooled at all? I had a Bowser U25B with Tsunami sound. If you are going to strip it and rebuild it then its an okay starting point. The major fail on the model is its 25 years old and even with a tweak here and there by Bowser, it is still 25 year old tooling. I wouldn't write home about its operation. It was middle of the road, not great not bad. The new LED lighting is a joke. The light bars are set up for the original system and the LED's are glued to the shell just behind the end of the bar. The glue let go on my unit so I had campfire in the cab lighting only with an LED instead of a bulb. The sound chamber was also not properly sealed and the sound was horrible until the chamber was sealed. It cost me a little over $175 on sale for the unit and I feel it may not have been worth the price. Its an old model. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Nov 14, 2013 17:00:55 GMT -8
What exactly did Bowser improve on the old Stewart U25B? I'd like to build a U25B one of these days and would prefer to just pick up a Cheaper Stewart with the Kato drive if I could. It will be a pretty extensive rebuild with wire hand rails and so forth. Is there any advantage to the Bowser version? Was the shell retooled at all? This is a Wabash one I built about 6 years ago for the fun of it ( I usually model the D&RGW) using the old Stewart shell and frame along with an Atlas/Kato C424 drive. The trucks are slightly modified to allow the frame to sit lower, the handrails were bent from brass wire and soldered. The cab was replaced with Hi-Tech Details, pretty fun project.  |
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Post by onequiknova on Nov 14, 2013 17:18:30 GMT -8
Thanks guys.
Yes the tooling is old, but what options do you have? I doubt we'll see a state of the art U25B anytime soon.
If the shells are indeed the same then I'll just find the correct phase Stewart. The details Bowser adds will probably have to come off and holes filled anyway. Besides, you can't beat a Kato drive.
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Post by Spikre on Nov 15, 2013 12:55:40 GMT -8
 be aware the long hood sides are only correct for the Phs-1b or earlier units. had a few talks with Mr Stewart to do the correct later Hood sides,but was told it would cost too much. also brought up the later frame mounted channel hand rail posts,also too expensive. any one bring these items up with Bowser recently ? if the KBM U25C is a successful model,it could spawn a better U25B in the future,or or at least that is hoped for here. would be nice to have Correct EL U25Bs. Spikre 
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 13:24:04 GMT -8
be aware the long hood sides are only correct for the Phs-1b or earlier units. had a few talks with Mr Stewart to do the correct later Hood sides,but was told it would cost too much. also brought up the later frame mounted channel hand rail posts,also too expensive. any one bring these items up with Bowser recently ? if the KBM U25C is a successful model,it could spawn a better U25B in the future,or or at least that is hoped for here. would be nice to have Correct EL U25Bs. Spikre Is the KBM project still floating? There has been nothing new or any dates set. Originally the due date was announced as "early 2014", but that date would be unrealistic this late into 2013. Checked their Facebook page and it doesn't have a pulse either. |
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Post by carrman on Nov 15, 2013 13:43:29 GMT -8
They sure have been real, real quiet lately......... I hope they are not vapor ware.
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Post by carrman on Nov 15, 2013 13:43:46 GMT -8
For that matter, the Rivarossi folks went silent too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 15:49:26 GMT -8
The KBM rep hasn't logged onto this forum since June 4, 2013, that is nearly six months ago.
Nothing on KBM's site mentions the U25C, just went there and pawed around.
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Post by onequiknova on Nov 15, 2013 16:11:43 GMT -8
Yes, I was schooled last night on the latter phase hood door differences. I knew about the hand rails. I'm wanting to do a late phase unit with the split windshield, so I may just try to mod the body to correct it.
Some GE stlye Cannon doors would be very helpful for that.
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Post by Spikre on Nov 16, 2013 12:47:19 GMT -8
 John, Cannon or Hi-tech doing doors would be a solution. working with Stewart sides still has the door latch problem. Jim, maybe KBM is working very hard to get the U25Cs rite. if Hornby is still working on the U25C its possible that Kader will be the Tool Maker,they own a stake of Hornby/Rivo. so would they actually consider Multi versions ?? or just 1 body to cover them all ? Spikre
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Post by madlatvian on Nov 18, 2013 10:32:28 GMT -8
Hornby/Rivarossi were at Trainfest this November. They were saying that the Rivarossi U25C should be available April/May 2014. They were showing tooling drawings and the detail level was high. From what I saw the "one body fits all" approach was not being used. I saw 5-6 different variations of tooling drawings. Hopefully this will translate into the tooling.
Hornby is not owned whole/or in part by Kader. Kader owns all of Bachmann. Kader has produced product for Hornby in the past but Hornby has moved most of their production elsewhere. Talking to the Rivarossi people at Trainfest- the HO scale Rivarossi U25C and the N scale Arnold U25C will not be produced at Kader- in fact both will come out of other factories that Hornby has had success with.
KBM was supposed to be at Milwaukee based on their postings on this forum during the Spring- when they were announcing their U25C- but they were no where to be seen and as noted above - we have heard nothing from them since June. Probably vaporware!
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 18, 2013 10:52:08 GMT -8
also brought up the later frame mounted channel hand rail posts,also too expensive. any one bring these items up with Bowser recently ? From notes on Bowser's site re: the current release of U25B's: "New Upgraded Handrails (correct for all Phases)" Ed |
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Post by roadkill on Nov 18, 2013 17:01:40 GMT -8
From notes on Bowser's site re: the current release of U25B's: "New Upgraded Handrails (correct for all Phases)"Ed I can't believe they'd actually post that bullsnot on their website. And for the record, basically nothing was upgraded to bring their U25B into their Executive Line except the paint jobs. I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me, and I want U25Bs in the worst way. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 18, 2013 17:41:48 GMT -8
I can't believe they'd actually post that bullsnot on their website. And for the record, basically nothing was upgraded to bring their U25B into their Executive Line except the paint jobs. I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me, and I want U25Bs in the worst way. My quote is in reference to an as yet not produced item. When I said current, I didn't mean currently available; I meant currently orderable. So I'm not understanding how your statement applies. Do you know something about how they're GOING to be built? Ed |
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Post by graftonterminalrr on Nov 18, 2013 19:14:55 GMT -8
I have a Bowser Exec Line U25B decorated for Maine Central in the Guilford scheme.
Paint job is very, very nice. Instructions state that the bodies are molded in the USA, shipped to China and painted there, shipped back to the USA and assembled with brass plows, MU hoses, antennae, and sunshades, then the bodies are mated to US-made power chassis.
The power chassis includes a Buehler-made motor and Kato-clone trucks. These trucks are direct clones of the Kato, so much so that old Kato parts will fit, and so will Atlas FB2 and Blomberg truck parts as they are Kato clones too. However the sideframes are proprietary, and they are too short for a correct AAR Type B truck (they are almost correct for MLW lightweight trucks as found under certain RS18s though).
I retrucked mine with a set of Proto 2000 trucks from an old FA1, replacing the axle gears along the way. They run very well.
All told it's a rather nice unit, although the shell is showing its age. We still have the thick handrails with incorrect end rails, but the seethru grilles in the rear of the unit are well done.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Nov 18, 2013 22:45:03 GMT -8
That's a great answer to the Stewart versus Bowser U25B. I've had many hours of pleasure out of both the Stewart U25B and the Bowser Executive U25B. I lived in the Buffalo, New York area through the 60s, 70s, and early 80s, and saw U25Bs in NYC, PRR, EL, PC, Conrail, and even SP run-through power that came in from the West and Chesapeake and Ohio power that came in from Detroit via Canada. About the only major road in the vicinity that didn't have them was Lehigh Valley (and they sorta made up for it by acquiring the government financed U23Bs in the early 1970s). The smoother more rounded lines of the U25B and other early U-Boats were a nice contrast to the sea of angular EMD hood units. So I was very glad when Stewart came out with the U25B, particularly in EL. By the time I could afford any, they had advanced to the better mechanism. Every one I have (now totaling about 20 units, about half Stewart and half Bowser Executive) has been a smooth runner. I have another 6 coming from the latest run, and am looking forward in particular to the Demo scheme. Does tooling become dated and can any model be improved? Of course. But they're certainly head and shoulders better than if, back in the day, Athearn Blue Box, Bachmann, Tyco, or AHM had done them. I've really enjoyed having these and the pleasant memories of when and where I acquired each, including some from the weekly sales Stewart had for awhile as the Bowser takeover neared.
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Post by roadkill on Nov 19, 2013 16:29:10 GMT -8
I have a Bowser Exec Line U25B decorated for Maine Central in the Guilford scheme. Paint job is very, very nice. Instructions state that the bodies are molded in the USA, shipped to China and painted there, shipped back to the USA and assembled with brass plows, MU hoses, antennae, and sunshades, then the bodies are mated to US-made power chassis. The power chassis includes a Buehler-made motor and Kato-clone trucks. These trucks are direct clones of the Kato, so much so that old Kato parts will fit, and so will Atlas FB2 and Blomberg truck parts as they are Kato clones too. However the sideframes are proprietary, and they are too short for a correct AAR Type B truck (they are almost correct for MLW lightweight trucks as found under certain RS18s though). I retrucked mine with a set of Proto 2000 trucks from an old FA1, replacing the axle gears along the way. They run very well. All told it's a rather nice unit, although the shell is showing its age. We still have the thick handrails with incorrect end rails, but the seethru grilles in the rear of the unit are well done. It's still lipstick on an old horribly outdated pig if they actually do retool the handrails, which BTW they would have to tool up a completely new walkway as well, since the late phase U25Bs use the same sill mounted stanchions as the later U-Boats. For the record, the handrails are the least of that pig's problems. |
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Post by trebor on Nov 20, 2013 21:18:11 GMT -8
Knowing my luck, KBM and Hornby looked at each other and both passed out.....
I really want the U25C but a B would be problematic due to replacement cost of too many older "Stewser" units.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 21:54:39 GMT -8
Hornby/Rivarossi were at Trainfest this November. They were saying that the Rivarossi U25C should be available April/May 2014. They were showing tooling drawings and the detail level was high. From what I saw the "one body fits all" approach was not being used. I saw 5-6 different variations of tooling drawings. Hopefully this will translate into the tooling. Hornby is not owned whole/or in part by Kader. Kader owns all of Bachmann. Kader has produced product for Hornby in the past but Hornby has moved most of their production elsewhere. Talking to the Rivarossi people at Trainfest- the HO scale Rivarossi U25C and the N scale Arnold U25C will not be produced at Kader- in fact both will come out of other factories that Hornby has had success with. KBM was supposed to be at Milwaukee based on their postings on this forum during the Spring- when they were announcing their U25C- but they were no where to be seen and as noted above - we have heard nothing from them since June. Probably vaporware! Ooooooooooooo tooling drawings....as an old fart, I've seen that song played by many manufacturers. The manufacturers go around to the shows showing their "tooling drawings" to masses and maybe the project actually does get done within the decade. ..... Its November and they have "tooling drawings" and are expecting an April/May 2014 release??? So in the space of the six months they expect to cut the tooling, make corrections(hopefully), set their production quotas and get a finished product in people's hands. Unless they are Kato and guess what production numbers to run, they best start cultivating some reservations. If they had pre-production samples at Trainfest, MAYBE I could see an April/May release. But drawings?....Ummmm no..... |
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