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Post by mlehman on Jun 8, 2012 12:03:49 GMT -8
Looks like with Atlas no longer having a forum, most of us missed this announcement from last month. I saw it in this week's MR email newsletter. It's a new Trainman item, a 40' plugdoor boxcar: www.atlastrainman.com/HOFreight/tmho40plugdoorbc.htmWith the flood of modern stuff, it's good to see something from a little further back making it into production. |
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Post by dti406 on Jun 8, 2012 12:15:58 GMT -8
Please note, the PRR model is completely bogus for the X54 Class of Plug Door Boxcars. Rick J  |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 8, 2012 13:41:40 GMT -8
They look nice and I need to add some 40' foot box cars to my fleet but as usual I'll need to check them against the real thing to try to avoid the fantasy cars.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jun 8, 2012 14:56:40 GMT -8
$22 for molded-on ladders and grabs?
<somewhat remorseful edit>
That sounded ungreatful, huh? Yeah, it's a nice looking car but man a small fleet of them costs a small fortune...
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Post by riogrande on Jun 8, 2012 16:26:59 GMT -8
$22 for molded-on ladders and grabs?
but man a small fleet of them costs a small fortune... [/i][/font][/quote] Considering Athearn has been selling blue box version of RTR covered hoppers for $30 MSRP, what do you expect? MSRP of $22 and hopefully we can pick them up for maybe $16 ea, I may have to pick up some. My Genesis PC&F box cars from recent runs are discount around $28-32, depending on where I got them. |
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Post by curtmc on Jun 8, 2012 18:07:44 GMT -8
Oh, I noticed them... and the price. Now that they've closed the forum we can be more honest about their pricing Donnell and I agree with you.
The new run of Trainman bulkheads and flats is a little more interest to me...
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jun 8, 2012 21:19:36 GMT -8
Call me cheap if you want, but I'll stick with the Trainman 1937 AAR boxcar for $13.95.
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Post by mlehman on Jun 9, 2012 5:53:17 GMT -8
Looks like some things never change...  Gee, you can even get it undecorated for only $15.95 if your budget is really tight. Of course, then you'd have to -- GASP! -- paint and decal it. And how many people will pay the street price? Maybe like 1%? Frankly, a RTR car with new tooling for under $20 is automatically a bad thing? There is a song dedicated to the philosophy of perpetually unsatisfied parsimony -- (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction. ;D |
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Post by tom on Jun 9, 2012 7:12:06 GMT -8
Call me cheap if you want, but I'll stick with the Trainman 1937 AAR boxcar for $13.95. Which of course if you want a plug door boxcar the Trainman AAR won't help at all! Here is my version of a PRR plugdoor 40' X54 boxcar that started with a Branchline 50' plugdoor boxcar.  |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 9, 2012 7:19:20 GMT -8
I noticed the Atlas Trainman box cars, the price is nice. I'll probably pick up a few. Same with the branchline. The one thing I am lacking are 40' boxcars, but my focus for years has been the 1980's when 40' box cars are rare. But I have been backdating my interests to cover the mid-1960's thru the 70's so I can really use some 40' foot box cars, even though they were increasingly hard to find as the 70's wore on.
That PRR box car is lovely.
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Post by mlehman on Jun 9, 2012 7:37:46 GMT -8
Sweet modeling there, Tom.
Jim,
The good thing about the Trainman plug door 40' boxcar is that cars like it with plug doors and other damage prevention gear is that they tended to be among the last 40' boxcars running.
I'm a sucker for NP paint, so may just pick one of those up. If the FGE cars are anywhere close, I may get one of those, too.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jun 9, 2012 10:07:41 GMT -8
Looks like some things never change... Gee, you can even get it undecorated for only $15.95 if your budget is really tight. Of course, then you'd have to -- GASP! -- paint and decal it. And how many people will pay the street price? Maybe like 1%? Frankly, a RTR car with new tooling for under $20 is automatically a bad thing? There is a song dedicated to the philosophy of perpetually unsatisfied parsimony -- (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction. ;D
I can assure you I have no problem detailing, painting, or lettering an undecorated model.  The issue, is that the Trainman line was introduced as a low-cost, entry-level alternative for new and experienced modelers. To quote Atlas directly, and mind you, this was stated under the heading titled "Popular Pricing",
"Our pricing structure is especially attractive to cost-conscious retailers and consumers."
The $22 cost, while seemingly affordable to some, is only $8 to $10 lower than many of the premium-line cars offered by Atlas, Athearn, and other manufacturers.
Donnell
PS - Tom, you've done a great job on that model!
And though he's put way more than $22 worth of work into it, the kit he started with, which, by the way, has seprately applied details, was only $15.98 retail!
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Post by mlehman on Jun 9, 2012 11:34:15 GMT -8
I guess I'm missing the "Show Me the Money" line. The Undecorated Atlas is 3 cents cheaper than the (undecorated?) Branchline kit? True enough that Tom has more money than that in it, but so will Atlas by the time it has the car assembled (not sure the undec is assembled or a kit...anyone know?), boxed, and sent stateside. Maybe Atlas should only be charging a a dollar or two more than the undec for the RTR? That would take a very sharp pencil and I'm OK with paying some Chinese worker more than a dollar a day, so I don't see charging $6 more to paint it as particularly out of line. I guess I still don't see the fact that it's a little over $20 as somehow undermining the premise of the Trainman line. I wish I had 1972-priced gas to put in my truck, but it just ain't so. Hey, how about instead of us always talking about how prices are too high, maybe we should talk about how wages are too low?  OK, won't go there, but it's sometimes useful to consider whether the glass that seems half empty is maybe really half full? |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jun 9, 2012 12:05:56 GMT -8
Hi Mike,
I'll concede that $22 is not a "deal breaker", however, my point was that we've had similar, and in some instances, more detailed (and decorated) cars for less. At the same time, that $6 will get you etched roofwalks and separate grabirons and underframe detail. Oh well...
I WILL agree that wages are WAAAAAAAAAY behind relative to the COL! And, I am a "glass half full" person, but sometimes it get kind of hard when "they" keep increasing the size of the glass (for the same amount of water)!
Donnell
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 13:32:32 GMT -8
The other fallacy of the Atlas Trainman is when Atlas advertised it was to be available at all times, unlike the Master line that is done by pre-order. Now Trainman line is also done via pre-order and if you don't jump on that boxcar, hopper, GP38-2, etc. when they are gone....they are gone.....your dealer can't order you one whenever you feel you want that hopper car.
So just like the Master line you better not "miss the announcement" or you may miss out or possibly pay premium prices. Basically the Trainman line is produced and sold just like the Master line now with limited numbers and all pre-ordered.
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Post by carrman on Jun 9, 2012 17:29:19 GMT -8
I guess I'm missing the "Show Me the Money" line. The Undecorated Atlas is 3 cents cheaper than the (undecorated?) Branchline kit? True enough that Tom has more money than that in it, but so will Atlas by the time it has the car assembled (not sure the undec is assembled or a kit...anyone know?), boxed, and sent stateside. Maybe Atlas should only be charging a a dollar or two more than the undec for the RTR? That would take a very sharp pencil and I'm OK with paying some Chinese worker more than a dollar a day, so I don't see charging $6 more to paint it as particularly out of line. I guess I still don't see the fact that it's a little over $20 as somehow undermining the premise of the Trainman line. I wish I had 1972-priced gas to put in my truck, but it just ain't so. Hey, how about instead of us always talking about how prices are too high, maybe we should talk about how wages are too low? OK, won't go there, but it's sometimes useful to consider whether the glass that seems half empty is maybe really half full? Maybe if you don't like folks saying the price is too high, you shouldn't read the post? Donnells forum here, he can talk about prices if he wants. Dave |
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Post by riogrande on Jun 9, 2012 17:52:53 GMT -8
Maybe if you don't like folks saying the price is too high, you shouldn't read the post? Donnells forum here, he can talk about prices if he wants. Dave What, just cover your eyes? What are forums for if not to discuss and sometimes disagree. As long as it is kept fairly civil, we don't have to keep things completely rainbows and unicorns all the time. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jun 9, 2012 22:19:15 GMT -8
I like a little "civilized controversy" every now and then. The fact is, we will not always agree on everything no matter how well we present our arguments. We simply state our sides, wait for a response, and then write a rebutal.
Everyone has a voice and a right to express their viewppoint. Where it crosses the line is when people start the name calling, or subtle insults and sarcastic remarks meant to enflame others.
Personally, I think the Branchline kits (now owned and sold by Atlas) were well done and very reasonably priced. There is no reason Atlas couldn't have offered this new car, decorated, for the same price as its undecorated counterpart.
It's all good though. It still a nice car, Atlas will probably sell a good number of them.
Donnell
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Post by dti406 on Jun 10, 2012 4:09:04 GMT -8
Atlas, unlike Athearn has always offered their undecorated kits for less than the decorated ones, another reason except for the latest batch of Airslides I have not purchased any Athearn cars in ten years. Rick J  |
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Post by drolsen on Jun 10, 2012 4:18:04 GMT -8
Rick - Even more important to me personally is that Atlas keeps making their undecorated models available with each subsequent run of a particular model. Athearn tends to run the undecorated models only with the initial run and then never again, unless there are a ton of requests for more undecs from modelers. I really appreciate that Atlas continues to support us like that.
Dave
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Post by umtrrauthor on Jun 10, 2012 8:56:53 GMT -8
I too am concerned about the "always available - popular pricing" morphing into "pre-order or else - $20 is the new $10" reality. A recent Trainman introduction in N Scale was at the $16.95 price point-- I forget which body style.
Throw in shorter discount structures and I do think the number of people paying MSRP will climb somewhat from 1%. Hopefully not too much.
I know we'll never get back to the days of AHM cars for 79 cents each at Woolworths, but still... I think it's getting more difficult than ever to enter the hobby.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 10, 2012 10:09:49 GMT -8
I too am concerned about the "always available - popular pricing" morphing into "pre-order or else - $20 is the new $10" reality. A recent Trainman introduction in N Scale was at the $16.95 price point-- I forget which body style. Me too. I know Atlas was going to do the "always available" with the Trainline but I guess the road is paved with good intentions which cannot be maintained. It is, but as long as the economy remains slow, it isn't going to be easy to reverse things. Europe/UK is double dipping right now too, what can't help. |
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