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Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 25, 2014 15:39:54 GMT -8
And the downfall of the Tangent/E-Rail model of not announcing until the product is in stock (or "on the water") is that any errors they make in the research or artwork can't be identified and corrected... And they end up with a large stock of mispainted/misprinted stock that ends up in stock for years, having to be severely discounted, or even given away (as freebies with qualifying orders)... I have yet to see Tangent get something wrong... Cheap shot Curt.
Anyhow, enough deviation. Back to the topic...
Donnell
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Post by wp8thsub on Aug 26, 2014 8:33:09 GMT -8
I have yet to see Tangent get something wrong... Just to throw something in... Tangent's gray on the UP 4740 hoppers was WAY off and I think they know it. It looks far too light for the as-delivered scheme (Athearn's UP gray on their ancient RTR 4740 looks much closer), and more like the gray used on the FMC 4527s. They seem to have addressed this on the current run of UP 4750s, and hopefully will re-run the 4740s in a better gray. I know someone in the business who claimed to have engaged Tangent on this matter, and had a personal interest ensuring the 4750s were correct. Tangent included wood floors and solid bearing trucks on the WP and Sacramento Northern ACF gons, while the prototypes had steel floors and rolling bearing trucks from the factory. Neither of those are paint issues though, and at the time of release Tangent didn't have their own 70 ton roller bearing trucks like they do now.
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Post by riogrande on Aug 26, 2014 9:06:53 GMT -8
I've had issues with shades of gray also, as well as other colors. I don't know about Tangent, but some manufacturers used to state in many cases that they matched to actual color chips. The paint on the models would often look too dark, but that may have had to do with how a real engine or freight car photographs in natural light vs. how the same color looks on a model in-doors under light in a basement?
I don't know if that was the case with my D&RGW KATO 2-bay cement hoppers, but the gray on those out of the box looks very dark compared to photo's of the real thing - that may be partly due to fading/oxidation etc. as well as the issues I commented on earlier. I have some Cotton Belt 3-bay hoppers from Atlas that the gray looks a bit too dark to me also, but same thing, might be matched to color chips which look darker under modeling light.
I'm not sure if the same thing happened with D&RGW orange on some models: Athearn used a rather dark shade on one run of blue box tunnel motors and of course Life Like used a rather dark reddish orange on their SD50's and SD9's - again, was that a color chip match which looked ok on the prototype in natural bright sunlight vs. model in artificial light or was it just the wrong shade?
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Post by Spikre on Aug 26, 2014 12:09:12 GMT -8
the 1st run CB&Q P-S 4740s weren't painted Black from Bolster to Bolster as shown in the Q painting diagram. and am still wondering why the Flames when that was pointed out....? so it doesn't matter who makes something,Check everything carefully. Spikre
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Post by atsfan on Aug 26, 2014 13:07:29 GMT -8
Gray is always shakey to match. In the real world grey comes in all colors on the real railroads.
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Post by riogrande on Aug 26, 2014 15:24:04 GMT -8
the 1st run CB&Q P-S 4740s weren't painted Black from Bolster to Bolster as shown in the Q painting diagram. and am still wondering why the Flames when that was pointed out....? so it doesn't matter who makes something,Check everything carefully. Spikre Do you mean the bottom section? I don't remember the flames but CB&Q were a connecting road so I don't know. In Jim Eagers Rio Grande Color Guide it shows a photo of a 4740 repaint with orange ends and sides but black bottom. Athearn has offered them that way and totally covered in orange. Need more photographic evidence to see how they were in the early years!
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Post by Spikre on Aug 27, 2014 10:33:42 GMT -8
James, everthing under the sides was BLACK from Bolster to Bolster on the CB&Q P-S 4740 CDs. see the Tangent 2nd run for the Corrected Paint. if You want a copy of the CB&Q P-S 4740 CD paint specs ,,,, just ask !! Spikre
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chuckc
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by chuckc on Aug 27, 2014 19:31:12 GMT -8
Donnell and all, I'll repeat myself... 1) Many people in this hobby do not, and will not, preorder items. Many shops - including many major shops who have been shorted on items* - no longer do it. Manufacturers begging for preorders, or short shipping to supposedly penalize those who don't, isn't going to change that. The result is lost sales. (* one of the biggest messes in the hobby is a shop with 10 or 20 preorders that only gets 5 items - resulting in that shop having to play favorites and ticking some off in the process) ........ Then there's the bigger issue that the preorder game brings with it - the inability to see something before buying it. Right now I have a dealer 500 miles away getting ready to ship me $400+ dollars in Athearn items that I think Athearn botched the paint on but (1) Athearn doesn't have photos of the actual production items on their web site (only preproduction artwork and the pre-production samples - which don't match), (2) that dealer can't tell me exactly what color the cars are (and photos in the packaging can be deceptive), and (3) I will not be able to compare the cars to prior runs until I get them (and no, I don't plan to weather them to try to hide a different color). So do I tell the dealer to not ship them and send them back to Horizon based on the photos I've seen of the cars? Do I get them and then if wrong deal with Athearn/Horizon myself and try to get my $400+ back and pay the shipping back on their defects? I never pre order and I buy a lot of locos and freight cars. Over the last couple of years I can only think of one item that I missed out on, the Bluford MP cabooses. So I don't think that there is a lack of product out there because of the manufacturer's pre-order requirements. About your Athearn botched paint comment, I'm wondering if you are talking about the Auto-Max cars because I've had issues with the shades of gray paint that they put on these cars. In their last batch, I had to return the BNSF cars because the gray was too dark. In the previous batch, I had to return an Auto-Max car because the black paint used to depict the vent holes was tacky and still wet. When I picked up the car with my hands, I got the black paint on my hands and it caused black smudges on the car itself.
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Post by curtmc on Aug 28, 2014 4:21:59 GMT -8
chuckc, yes those are the cars... Both BNSF and CSX have the "gray issue". The BNSF is the interesting one since the 2009 and 2010 releases (circle logo) had the proper white color (and the swoosh ones should be a different darker creme/beige color). CSX they haven't quite gotten right yet. After the initial release I contacted them and was told the "next run, soon" would be corrected. Waited 7 years for the next run and it's not right either.
You've been lucky on the cars, as there have been several recent cars that sold out at MBK and other online outlets in hours, and some that never ended up on any dealer auctions on eBay at all. The Bluford MP cabooses are just one example (I got lucky on those and found a shop that still had them 3 weeks after they were released - and got their last pair).
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bigzmn
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by bigzmn on Aug 28, 2014 6:17:49 GMT -8
I can't believe they are still using the ACF 5250 mold as well as 50' plug door boxcar! The 5250 is such a blob of plastic! it really need to updated at least to an acceptable level. I have been trying to get Atlas to do it(5250) in their Trainman line(plus) they already do the car in N and should be an easy transition to HO. As for the boxcar at least this time the roadnames are current with the boxcar, last time they did BN, CN(website logo) and several others that were foobies. I bought a couple of the old Athearn ACF 5250 Blue Box kits this past spring for $2 each at a model train flea market. My plan is to detail them up some and paint them Cotton Belt. That should make them at least presentable. Chris Z.
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