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Post by riogrande on Oct 26, 2014 9:41:39 GMT -8
E-Bay lately has been full of overpriced junk. Old Bachmann, Life-Like, etc. structures, cars, locomotives, etc. at mind numbing prices. Even old Atlas yellow box and Athearn Blue Box stuff listed at prices that make you cringe. Let them crack on ... I imagine it is very rare that overpriced examples you list actually sell. I just can't imagine buyers being that uninformed or that loose with money over older cheaper stuff which doesn't justify the prices. Most know that old doesn't = valuable or expensive. That stuff only remains for sale because of the policies Ebay has to allow it to be re-listed. As far as I'm concerned, those sellers are just wasting their own time, and perhaps a millisecond of ours. This is nothing more than what has happened for years in other markets and venues, including shops and train stores, although Ebay has more extreme examples. Just move on - nothing to see there! The world is full if crazy things - but giving crazy things undue attention is giving it something which is undeserved. Ignore the crazies and pay attention to things more worthy. I think it's better for our blood pressure and overall health, both physical and mental. Trains are supposed to be fun, not stressful!
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Post by espeenut on Oct 26, 2014 10:47:16 GMT -8
I was at a local train show last month and I have to agree with the comments about a lot of junk with unrealistic prices, and much of it showing up year after year, at least the vendors are patient and persistent. I also saw a lot of Atlas yellow box, Blue Box, P1k, P2k, Spectrum and Kato models with asking prices approaching what new MSRP currently is. I told them they were ridiculous prices, waited til the show was getting near the end, offered them a realistic price and they sold me the items I wanted. I'm just very pleased that I have almost everything I need to build my layout and all the motive power and rolling stock I'll ever need as well. I look at the prices on the boxes of stuff I bought only five years ago and agree that the current retail prices being asked for are absolutely ridiculous - some are almost double of what I paid at that time.
cheers,
Lorne Miller
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Post by bnsffan on Oct 26, 2014 14:32:16 GMT -8
I have followed many of these "prices are to high" topics and always have the following questions.
Are the prices fair but we can't afford to buy?
Are the prices unfair because someone in the supply chain is gouging?
Are the prices unfair because the model used to sell for less?
Respectfully, BNSF Fan
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 15:57:55 GMT -8
I have followed many of these "prices are to high" topics and always have the following questions. Are the prices fair but we can't afford to buy? Are the prices unfair because someone in the supply chain is gouging? Are the prices unfair because the model used to sell for less? Respectfully, BNSF Fan Fair is where you judge pigs. Are prices reasonable? This is up to each individual. The only constant is as prices continue to escalate at a rate far faster than the current inflation rate, it stands to reason less people will be able to afford the toys. Less people buying will mean even faster rising prices or less new product. Are the prices unreasonable because there is a feeling someone is profiting excessively? I don't think that anyone, at least not me, believes that any of the manufacturers are making the "killing of the century" on toy trains. By enlarge, hobbies are a tough business, for most firms. But what remains unclear is the role of making all or most of our toys offshore. Are the prices unreasonable because the model used to sell for less? Yes and no. See the escalating price argument. At some point an MSRP of nearly $30 on a Athearn RTR box car which used to sell as a blue box kit for $4 is going to raise some eyebrows. Can't say they are paying off the tooling. Can't say that the plastic couplers are the cause. Can't say the metal wheel sets are the cause. Can't say the better paint is the cause. So why does a kit that has been around for 40 years now cost so much? After a while people will refuse to pay the prices being demanded for the quality of the product they are receiving. Catch-22
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Post by riogrande on Oct 26, 2014 16:09:05 GMT -8
BNSF Fan. All good points.
> Are the prices fair but we can't afford to buy?
To believe otherwise would be to say that companies are scamming the hobbyist and raking in lots of profit. Based on discussion from Jason Schron and Blaine Hadfield et. al., prices seem to be driven by the demand for higher caliber assembled trains and the cost to develop and manufacture them.
> Are the prices unfair because someone in the supply chain is gouging?
Since more and more are getting cut out of the supply chain, it seems there is less opportunity to gouge. ExactRail and some others are selling direct so there is less "middle man" or no middle man.
> Are the prices unfair because the model used to sell for less?
No, it's just a reflection of higher costs to manufacture coupled with the type of product consumers are demanding based on how they vote with their wallets.
That being said, it is definitely more challenging to afford the higher prices on income as income remains flat and at depressed levels when compared to pre-2008 levels. Yes, unemployment figures have been reported to be down to 5.9% in recent weeks but they also have tempered that news with notes that wages remain much lower than pre-recession levels and many of the employed are only part-timers vs. full-time.
On the plus side, based on my trips to the Timonium train shows, there is a good deal of older products which are available at attractive prices, much of it new/never used; so modelers can, with some effort, afford items to enjoy the hobby without paying the premium prices of the latest stuff.
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Post by wmrdgfan on Oct 26, 2014 16:25:56 GMT -8
I was trying to think of a reply to the questions posted above, and you pretty much nailed it on the head. Another thing that bothers me is marketing strategies like Broadway Limited is doing now. Only selling 4 packs of their H32 hoppers, and Not offering Locos without sound. I know people have said that retailers will break up the sets of 4, but seems to me that shouldn't be put on the retailers. And as far as sound... would it really be that hard to offer them without??? I don't want sound and as you say, I refuse to pay for it.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 26, 2014 16:32:20 GMT -8
I was trying to think of a reply to the questions posted above, and you pretty much nailed it on the head. Another thing that bothers me is marketing strategies like Broadway Limited is doing now. Only selling 4 packs of their H32 hoppers, and Not offering Locos without sound. I know people have said that retailers will break up the sets of 4, but seems to me that shouldn't be put on the retailers. And as far as sound... would it really be that hard to offer them without??? I don't want sound and as you say, I refuse to pay for it. If Broadways sales model doesn't work, they will find out as people vote with their wallets. Fortunately for me, Broadway makes only limited items I have needed, namely the California Zephyr passenger cars and possibly SP Daylight; everything else they make is totally off my radar. If the sound only models sell slowly due to the fact that many people don't want them, but prefer non-sound versions, it should become apparant in time. Same with the 4 packs. Certainly expensive rolling stock is more affordable in singles. If the 4 packs sell out, then that will be their green light to keep doing that.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 26, 2014 16:39:55 GMT -8
Junk being cardboard boxes full of 40 plus year old cheap HO cars With horn hooks. Old built up 40 year old plastic buildings Old brass track Junk
It doesn't sell month after month. Usually dusty. If it was not junk it would sell. Most of it should just be given away or landfilled.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 26, 2014 16:41:20 GMT -8
I was trying to think of a reply to the questions posted above, and you pretty much nailed it on the head. Another thing that bothers me is marketing strategies like Broadway Limited is doing now. Only selling 4 packs of their H32 hoppers, and Not offering Locos without sound. I know people have said that retailers will break up the sets of 4, but seems to me that shouldn't be put on the retailers. And as far as sound... would it really be that hard to offer them without??? I don't want sound and as you say, I refuse to pay for it. Many people I know do not buy anything from Broadway as a result.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 26, 2014 16:44:13 GMT -8
I have followed many of these "prices are to high" topics and always have the following questions. Are the prices fair but we can't afford to buy? Are the prices unfair because someone in the supply chain is gouging? Are the prices unfair because the model used to sell for less? Respectfully, BNSF Fan It doesn't matter This is a hobby chasing discretionary income, which many have little of. Fair is irrelevant.
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Post by sd80mac on Oct 26, 2014 16:56:14 GMT -8
The thing that blows my mind those most is people trying to get over $100 for old, junk engines like AHM and Rivarossi Big Boys. For some reason, old (I'm talking pre 1990's) HO steam engines always seem to be priced in the stratosphere. Who buys this stuff?
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