Upgrading the MDC Roundhouse FMC 4700cf covered hopper

[fr8kar]

I've been working on several covered hoppers in the past few weeks with much of the emphasis put on upgrading Accurail's ACF 4600cf. You can't model BN without a bunch of FMC 4700cf hoppers as well, so I've also got a few of those under construction. Here I'll describe and show some of the modifications I've made to the original MDC Roundhouse kit to bring it in line with the current version offered as part of the Athearn RTR line.

I was just getting started in model railroading when I discovered MDC Roundhouse kits in a model railroad how-to book I'd received for Christmas. Most of the book was focused on turning your Tyco trainset into a 4'x8' (or larger!) actual model railroad layout. I thought the book was a well-intended gift, but saw myself as a little more advanced modeler than someone who should be messing around with Tyco trainsets. Anyway, a few of the photos in that book really got my mind working and set in motion much of the modeling I still do to this day. Of those inspiring photos, one showed a unit coal train of MDC Roundhouse gondolas that actually looked like the cars I saw every day near my house. Finally, I didn't have to try to model UFIX, FPPX and SATX trains with 40' quad hoppers.

If the old Athearn blue box models were "shake the box" kits, MDC Roundhouse models must have been "bump the box" kits because they tended to be an order of magnitude simpler than the Athearn cars. These were not highly detailed models by any stretch of the imagination. Some of them didn't have actual prototypes. But they were cheap and you could build a train out of them on lawn-mowing money.

The FMC 4700cf covered hopper was a late arrival to the MDC catalog. It bore more of a resemblance to Athearn blue box cars of the time than to other MDC Roundhouse products. It had a larger number of separate parts, including brake components that were specific to this car compared to the generic brake component sprue you'd get in their other kits. It had separate outlet gates that actually looked like outlet gates, a nice rendition of a stamped trough hatch and a separate roofwalk. At the time it was released, the FMC 4700cf hopper was a great model that fit right in with the likes of the Athearn PS 4740cf and the Accurail ACF 4600cf.

Eventually, Athearn acquired the MDC Roundhouse catalog and began cranking out RTR versions of the old kits. Some of the cars were just assembled versions of the original kits, but some were modified from the original tooling. The FMC 4700cf hopper was one that Athearn was quick to add to the RTR catalog as an unmodified assembled kit. Before long, the ex-Roundhouse model had been run in several variations of BN paint schemes, including a five-pack of individually numbered and decorated cars.

In recent years Athearn has added this car to the list of former MDC Roundhouse kits to get a full upgrade. Athearn really did a bang-up job on the old MDC Roundhouse model, adding an etched roofwalk and crossover platforms, new outlet gates, brake details and plumbing and a completely new end cage. Fortunately, several numbers have been run in CNW (Northwestern grain hoppers are another fascination of mine), but to my knowledge only three BN numbers have been produced, all in the large logo version and all very hard to find in the second-hand market. So far I've managed to snag two of the three and I keep my eyes out for the third. But three just isn't going to cut it for me, so I've decided to press on using what I can find or what I already had on hand.

[These photos were shot on different days, some indoors, some out, so pardon the inconsistency in lighting and color rendering.]

First, I managed to pick up a blue SSW version of the Athearn RTR FMC 4700cf hopper. I removed the lettering, replaced the trough hatch with an Accurail part and shot it with my "new" BN green paint:



I used this model as a baseline to modify the stock MDC Roundhouse car, replacing the ladder rungs with 0.010" styrene rod and the handholds with DA wire parts. I also thinned the stirrups as much as possible with a sharp blade to reduce the chunky cross-section and give them a more realistic appearance:



This model will become C&S 458927, which I caught in North Dakota in 1991:



You can see the prototype is "missing" two ribs per side, which is a characteristic of early FMC 4700cf hoppers. I removed the ribs from my model using a chisel blade, some sandpaper and a little putty where I wasn't as careful as I should have been:



Here it is with the roofwalk, some brake details and paint applied:



And here are some comparisons to the original model and to the revised Athearn RTR model (the upgraded model is on the right in both images):





The red car in the upper comparison photo is the next to be done. It will also become an early version of the FMC 4700cf, but it will be one of the reporting marks only repaints. Here's a photo I took in 1991 to illustrate the striking color difference between the older cars from the 70s and the newly repainted cars without logos:



I caught the same car several years ago in much worse shape a little closer to home:



Since my focus with these BN cars is the grain trains of the late 80s and early 90s, the model will be a lot cleaner than this.

Like the Accurail 4600cf thread, I'll update this one with photos as I continue to make progress. I just threw together some bits to represent the brake components Athearn added to their upgraded model, but I'll make it a point to show what I do to this red car as I upgrade it to match the others.

[tankcarsrule]

I love this stuff! Beautiful work.

Regards, Bobby

[fr8kar]

Thanks, Bobby! I'll keep it coming.

[TBird1958]

Great looking work!

You're inspiring me to bust out the 6 D&RGW cars I have, thank you!

[fr8kar]

Nov 24, 2014 11:55:27 GMT -8 TBird1958 said:

Great looking work!

You're inspiring me to bust out the 6 D&RGW cars I have, thank you!

I'm sure you won't disappoint. Like Bobby, you do some inspiring work yourself!

[buffalobill]

Ryan: Really a very nice job on the 4700. Like your early Gunderson version of the FMC car. As a BN modeler, I need a lot of these for grain trains, they had over 4500 in various configurations. I have all 9 numbers of the improved Athearn version, they did a second run of six, all the early BN logo scheme. But I do have a bunch of the MDC versions still kicking around. Since the roof walk work on this is easier that on the Accurail car, one these is definitely going to get done, in the early 70's version, with the no logo late 80's paint job. Did you replace the original MDC trucks? Nice.

Bill

[fr8kar]

Hi Bill. I had no idea there were 9 numbers of the upgraded RTR version. That makes it even more crazy that I can't find them.

The roofwalk on these is just like doing the ACF 4600cf, but there's no material to remove other than the gussets at the ends of the carbody. You still have a bunch of little braces to bend and glue in place and you have to attach the roofwalk to the braces. I messed up installing the supports at the ends of the car on the C&S model; I'll have to be more careful on the plain BN car.

We've come a long way since those old 100 ton trucks you find on Athearn blue box and MDC Roundhouse models. Boy, are they bad! In the photos I think the trucks that are on the C&S car are just some Athearn RTR trucks I swiped off an ACF 5250cf that I'm going to upgrade later. I put them back on it a few days ago and threw some Genesis 100 ton trucks on this one and the (formerly red, now stripped) other MDC car in the photos. I had to make a center "ring" (for lack of a better term) around the hole where the truck screws to the body since the bolster is just flat on the MDC car and the Genesis trucks have a much larger hole in them than the old Athearn blue box or MDC 100 ton truck. I used a thin slice off a Kadee coupler box center post and glued it to the bolster to keep the Genesis trucks aligned. There's probably a better way to do it, but I like using junk I have laying around. It helps justify leaving the junk laying around!

[buffalobill]

Ryan: The second run of the improved FMC BN cars was like a year or two after the first run. I think it was 2010. It is impossible to find any of them. I hope Athearn does another BN run, maybe with a different logo next time, but they are going to be considerably more expensive than the $25 list price on the first two runs.

The fact that you don't have to do major surgery to the roof on the FMC cars makes it a bit easier project to consider. Your work is beautiful. Your right, the old MDC cars with the Flat Body bolster, makes it a bit more challenging to get the right trucks for the cars at the right height. You are right the old MDC and early Athearn trucks were terrible. Blobs of plastic where the roller bearings were supposed to be.

Nice job.
Bill

[fr8kar]

I figured my description of the bolster modification was vague enough I should take a photo:



If you look where the truck mounts to the bolster, you can see a thin raised ring that I've glued to the bolster. The ring was sliced from the center post of a Kadee coupler box. It needs to be fairly thin since the screw will tighten against it. If it's too thick, the truck can't be tightened against the bolster.

Also, here's a photo of how I add some extra weight to these cars. They're pretty light and I like my cars extra heavy. It's just some sheet lead bent into shape and held in place with styrene tube. Once the tube is bonded to the hopper bays, the weight isn't going anywhere:

[roadkill]

IMHO your upgraded MDC car looks better than the RTR Athearn car. Well done, sir.

[fr8kar]

Thanks, Roger. That's pretty high praise! Hopefully I don't mess it up too bad with decals and weathering.

[markfj]

Very nice modeling indeed! The paint finish looks ultra smooth with perfect coverage around the end cages. I’ve got an IMRC covered hopper that I’m modifying and was thinking I should try painting the ends without the ladders so I could get good coverage. But after seeing your model, I guess it’s ok to build out the ends and then paint.

Again, nice work!
Mark

[catt]

I got to stop coming here,I've already got a list of projects a year long and these hopper detailing threads are making that list even longer.

[atsfan]

I like it !

Shows how much a new version of this car would look better.

[catt]

I went to my favorite LHS this morning to buy some .010" rod and ended up having to order it.A friend of mine works there on weekends so now I have two excuses to go to the LHS this Saturday. (or should I say another excuse)

[edwardsutorik]

Nov 24, 2014 13:33:45 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

Hi Bill. I had no idea there were 9 numbers of the upgraded RTR version. That makes it even more crazy that I can't find them.

Not really. They all went into a black hole: BN modelers

C'mon Athearn, make more!



Ed

[fr8kar]

Johnathan, I got mine from a store on ebay. It's either that or drive to the other side of town and back to the one remaining hobby shop in the area that still stocks these supplies. I figure the price of gas is offset by the cost of shipping. Plus, I can click "buy it now" at three in the morning, which is usually when I'm awake and off work.

Ed, I'm with you. The elevator cars patched for BN are nice, but let's see some actual BN cars. They are needed.

[catt]

I can see your point about buying online,but waiting for Great Lakes to deliver to my fav LHS gives me time to tidy up some other projects.Not to mention that I get to talk model railroading with a friend I don't get to see nearly enough.Also with a bit of luck maybe my Accurail PS-2 4750 will show up.

[fr8kar]

Excellent points. My feelings wouldn't be hurt if I stumbled across an undecorated Accurail PS 4750 at the LHS. Maybe it is time to take a trip out that way...

[markfj]

I’m still in awe of that paint job.

Frookar, can you post the details (e.g. paint brand, thinner mix, air pressure, type of airbrush, etc.)?

Thanks, Mark

[drolsen]

Ryan, thanks for starting another great thread. Your work on those old MDC cars is fantastic - you really brought them up to the level of the revised Athearn model while adding your own unique touches, like the different style of running boards. I like the early car with the missing ribs too - that's a great reason to build and paint your own model. I always forget about the replacement fiberglass hatches on the prototype. It's great that the Accurail hatches appear to be a perfect fit. Was it difficult to replace the original hatches? I used to think they were molded as part of the body, but I've never messed with them, so I'm guessing they are a separate part.

Nov 25, 2014 14:19:35 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

Not really. They all went into a black hole: BN modelers

This CSX modeler picked up the whole set of 9 cars too. I'm a closet BN fan and seem to keep using the excuse that they show up in the East too. I see cuts of BN and BNSF covered hoppers in CSX's Cumberland, MD yard from time to time, so I'm going to go with the idea that they probably came through the area in my 1998 modeling era too.

The original run of 3 BN numbers had a little issue with the lettering. For some reason, the "BURLINGTON NORTHERN" lettering was oversized, causing it to cover the flanges of the side posts, which looks a little odd when comparing them to prototype photos. The second run of 6 numbers corrected this issue and looks better to my eyes. If I have nothing better to do, I may redo the lettering on the original 3 cars, mainly because I have the Microscale decals.

I hope Athearn reruns them too, but I'd like to see them offer the simplified, no-logo BN scheme. I like the original scheme better, but I think the simplified scheme adds some good visual variety.

On a side note, I have the Atlas Trainman BN Thralls too. Plano is working on a set of etched end ladder cages to upgrade the Atlas model, which I think would be a great improvement. Hopefully they'll be out soon - I'd like to take a crack at that project.

Dave

[fr8kar]

Nov 26, 2014 6:49:49 GMT -8 markfj said:

I’m still in awe of that paint job.

Frookar, can you post the details (e.g. paint brand, thinner mix, air pressure, type of airbrush, etc.)?

Thanks, Mark

Thanks!

I use a cheap Harbor Freight double action airbrush and a cheap compressor set between 20 and 25 psi. Cleanup is a breeze and if I mess up, I'll drive down the street and plunk down $20 for a new one. When I got the airbrush I never in a million years thought I'd stop using my old Paasche H for painting models, but I did.

The paint isn't so simple, though. Since Scalecoat is next to impossible to get in Texas and Floquil is out of production, I had to find an alternative when my supply of BN green dried up. I had already switched most of my paints over to Model Master enamels since they are easier to get here locally, but came up short on BN green. I was on a BN locomotive one day trying to figure out where I could get a nice paint sample that had not been exposed to the elements when I realized it was right under the peeling pinstripe. I took a little fleck home and started mixing Model Master Willow Green and Cobalt Blue until I had a good match. By the way, the tiny little bit of Floquil BN green I still had left - not enough to paint a model, unfortunately - was a very close match to the paint chip.

Model Master recommends 3 parts paint to 2 parts thinner for gloss enamels and 3 parts paint to 1 part thinner for flat enamels. This color ended up being a semi-gloss, so I just mixed it until it was the consistency of milk. It requires three or four coats at this consistency. If you try to cover in one you'll have problems, so just go light, give it a few seconds to rest, go light again, and repeat until it's done.

[fr8kar]

Nov 26, 2014 7:43:56 GMT -8 drolsen said:

Ryan, thanks for starting another great thread. Your work on those old MDC cars is fantastic - you really brought them up to the level of the revised Athearn model while adding your own unique touches, like the different style of running boards. I like the early car with the missing ribs too - that's a great reason to build and paint your own model. I always forget about the replacement fiberglass hatches on the prototype. It's great that the Accurail hatches appear to be a perfect fit. Was it difficult to replace the original hatches? I used to think they were molded as part of the body, but I've never messed with them, so I'm guessing they are a separate part.

Nov 25, 2014 14:19:35 GMT -8 edwardsutorik said:

Not really. They all went into a black hole: BN modelers

This CSX modeler picked up the whole set of 9 cars too. I'm a closet BN fan and seem to keep using the excuse that they show up in the East too. I see cuts of BN and BNSF covered hoppers in CSX's Cumberland, MD yard from time to time, so I'm going to go with the idea that they probably came through the area in my 1998 modeling era too.

The original run of 3 BN numbers had a little issue with the lettering. For some reason, the "BURLINGTON NORTHERN" lettering was oversized, causing it to cover the flanges of the side posts, which looks a little odd when comparing them to prototype photos. The second run of 6 numbers corrected this issue and looks better to my eyes. If I have nothing better to do, I may redo the lettering on the original 3 cars, mainly because I have the Microscale decals.

I hope Athearn reruns them too, but I'd like to see them offer the simplified, no-logo BN scheme. I like the original scheme better, but I think the simplified scheme adds some good visual variety.

On a side note, I have the Atlas Trainman BN Thralls too. Plano is working on a set of etched end ladder cages to upgrade the Atlas model, which I think would be a great improvement. Hopefully they'll be out soon - I'd like to take a crack at that project.

Dave

Thanks for the compliments, Dave. These are fun project cars just like the Accurail cars and a nice break from the pile of Tangent, Rail Yard and P2K hopper kits (though, those are each fun in their own way, too).

The hatch was surprisingly easy to swap out. Both cars have the same spacing on the four pegs that hold the hatch to the carbody, so if the parts haven't been glued, they transfer from one to the other easily. I just cut one of each along a batten to make two mismatched sets. Of course, I ended up filing down the hatch lip/riser on the Accurail cars, which required some filing on the underside of the Roundhouse/Athearn hatch hinge castings to get a flush fit. But before I did that modification, it fit just fine.

I wouldn't mind Athearn running the reporting marks only scheme myself, but the color varied enough from Kelly green to almost jade green that I'd prefer to paint my own. But, if they are released, I have a ton of BN decals so backdating them to the large logo scheme would be a snap. The small left hand logo scheme is all but out of my era, so I'm hopeful we won't see any of those.

You mentioned the Thrall cars, which are great, but they are in the same league as the Accurail cars and need some attention to fit in with the nicer cars. Like you say, the end cages need some work to make them look good. When I did my Thrall hoppers, instead of replacing all the ladder rungs I simply carved them down to a finer cross-section. It's a tedious process and has its shortcomings, which is why I started doing the full ladder rung replacement. An etched cage would be really nice and if anyone could pull it off, Plano could. I know Plano already has a kit for the Thrall 4750cf hopper, but I haven't bought any yet. Kevin Packard has done a really nice job with the Thrall 4750 and the Plano upgrade kits. You can see his work on three of these cars here:

www.protomodeler.com/index.php?/topic/2157-bn-thrall-hoppers-triple-play/

His models are also a good example of what can be accomplished with a little effort spent upgrading a basic model. Of course his weathering is simply unbelievable and takes the models to a new level.

[Spikre]

RC,
these FMC 4700 kits arnt that old,,,are they ?
when they were released Mainline ID'd the Tool
maker,cant recall,but think it was the Gent now
running Tahoe Model Works ?
but whoever it was,He also did the tooling for
the MDC 50' Composite Auto box car,the WP car.
keep the models coming,how about an Atlas
Cylinder Center Flow upgrade some day ?
Spikre

[fr8kar]

The reporting marks on the model in the first photo are MDC 1992, which leads me to believe that's when the car was introduced. Does that sound right?

An Atlas cylindrical upgrade? That sounds tempting. Didn't Frisco have some of those?

[Spikre]

RC,
1992,forgot about the MDC red cars.
so they are about 22 years old now, and still looking good !!
ACF Cylinder Center Flow BLCX 1017,lettered for SP is a late
cylinder with non bridged bays.3500 CUFT,3 bay car.
Classic Frieght Cars, the series, Vol 11,High Capacity Covered
Hoppers, page 25.
overall nice picture book, but most of the Evans 4780s are
listed as built by P-S.
Atlas did a Frisco 3 pack,P-S2 2003,Wide Vision caboose and ACF Cylinder.
later the cars were rerun individually.
Spikre

[markfj]

Thanks for the detailed info on the paint Frookar.

Looks like I’m heading to Harbor Freight to pick up one of those airbrushes. With the seemingly endless 20% coupons that arrive in their circulars, mailers, and the local paper, it’s not a big investment shopping there.

Thanks, Mark

[fr8kar]

Nov 27, 2014 8:37:10 GMT -8 riogrande said:

Nov 27, 2014 7:50:10 GMT -8 markfj said:

Thanks for the detailed info on the paint Frookar.

Thanks, Mark

I think it's freightcar rather than Frookar! =P You know, like when people with license plates or other internet abbreviations substitute 8 for the "ate" part of a word. Yes, the symbol in his siggy looks like the symbol for infinity, or an 8 on it's side. Confusing maybe.

I originally made the image as an animated GIF with the infinity/8 spinning, which is what it feels like switching in the yard, an infinite string of cars to deal with that never ends. I don't know if I can use an animated GIF for my avatar or not, though. I didn't mess with it too long. It's probably time for another one, anyway.

[fr8kar]

Nov 27, 2014 7:50:10 GMT -8 markfj said:

Thanks for the detailed info on the paint Frookar.

Looks like I’m heading to Harbor Freight to pick up one of those airbrushes. With the seemingly endless 20% coupons that arrive in their circulars, mailers, and the local paper, it’s not a big investment shopping there.

Thanks, Mark

Those airbrushes are well worth the $20 or less you'll spend. I always figured I'd buy a second one for when I mess up the one I have, but so far so good. Maybe they'll have a black friday sale tomorrow and I can get one for ten bucks.

[markfj]

Nov 27, 2014 11:49:57 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

Nov 27, 2014 8:37:10 GMT -8 riogrande said:

I think it's freightcar rather than Frookar! =P You know, like when people with license plates or other internet abbreviations substitute 8 for the "ate" part of a word. Yes, the symbol in his siggy looks like the symbol for infinity, or an 8 on it's side. Confusing maybe.

I originally made the image as an animated GIF with the infinity/8 spinning, which is what it feels like switching in the yard, an infinite string of cars to deal with that never ends. I don't know if I can use an animated GIF for my avatar or not, though. I didn't mess with it too long. It's probably time for another one, anyway.

Boy, do I feel stupid.   I “get it” now. Sorry about that.

Mama always said I wasn't the brightest bulb in the pack.

Thanks, Mark