Atlas and Athearn's 50' Evans box - Two sizes?

[jimnorton]

The old Details West dbl plug door boxcar is about 8 scale feet shorter than the Atlas version of this car. Has anybody noticed this? Is the difference in size a compromise in manufacturing or did Evans actually construct two sizes of this double door boxcar?

Thanks,

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL

[edwardsutorik]

Jim,

I believe the official shortness is 2 feet.

Jim Eager has pronounced that the DW (Athearn) car is wrong. And doesn't have a prototype. He knows stuff; so I believe him.



Ed

[fr8kar]

Atlas has made a couple versions of this model. I bought one that had molded on ladders and another one that had separate ladders. I guess the tooling was revised somewhere along the way.

I have also noticed the difference in length compared to the Athearn car (mine are actually Details West kits that I built, but it's the same thing), but I live with it.

[jimnorton]

Thanks and Oppps..... I meant to type 2 feet. Another variation between the brands is different roof panels. It would be interesting to find any original reviews of the Details West car to see if these differences from the prototype were noted.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL

[fr8kar]

I never noticed the difference in the roofs until you mentioned it, Jim. Now that I have one of each out and I'm looking at them it's obvious. I haven't seen any prototype photos that show the roof, but I haven't exactly scoured the internet for them either. So I don't know which roof is correct.

As far as any reviews of the original Details West cars are concerned, I'll bet Spikre knows a thing or two. My guess is the original kits compromised some dimensions in order to use common components, like the different cushion underframes that are still offered as parts by Details West. If that's the case, I wonder which variation(s) on the original Details West kits are actually correct?

[edwardsutorik]

The DW roof is also deemed wrong by......


I remember when they came out. I bought the yellow UP one, and it looked spectacular. For its day. I think the only thing out there that was as good (remember: in the day) was the Golden Spike reefer.

And the latter actually follows a prototype!



Ed

[Spikre]

the Original 90s Atlas models with molded on ladders was produced
in Brazil.after a run or two they moved the Tooling to China, removed
the molded on ladders and improved the decorations.
the Atlas is very close to the Correct 52'6" Interior Length.
and the correct roof.
the Details West car came out in the 70s,to use a common underframe
it was shortened to about 50'6' interior length.
the Diagonal Panel roof is wrong,it should be the Stanray "X" Panel roof.
later Details west came out with 2 Plate B FGE Insulated boxcars that
used either of the 2 DW 50' Cushioned Underframes.
the problem with those cars were they used the same Plate C ends that
the Evans car used,and never looked quite rite.
Athearn has never corrected any problems of the Detail West cars, and
may not actually own the Tooling,just the Rites to Produce the cars.
am sure some past or present Athearn Employees can let us know what
the Situation really is.
if You have some of the Atlas and Details West/RTR cars,keep them separated.
it has been suggested to Swap the Roof of the DW/RTR cars with the Athearn
Railbox ACF car as both have the wrong roofs out of the box.
Spikre

[GP40P-2]

Ah yes, Spikre the "good old days" before the hobby was dying.

The roof swap between the Athearn "Railbox" and the DW "Blue Island Reefer" was how we did prototype modeling. Been there, done that, long since thrown away the results!! I do miss the Railbox price point of what, $3.25 and the outrageously expensive DW car at something over $5.

[Spikre]

gp40p-2,
where else besides Bachman could we get an Almost Correct EL General
Foods Sky Blue 50' XLI for under $6.00 ?
too bad the Blue wasn't quite dark enuff,but it was Close Enuff !!
DW threw us a curve by molding the ladders in ABS.
would take several tries to get them to stay on !!
Spikre

[fr8kar]

I knew you'd come through, Bob! That's good information. I didn't know about the car originally being made in Brazil.

I also didn't realize the Details West cars were that old. I got my first four kits at Bobbye Hall's Hobby Shop in Dallas waaaayyy back in the day, but that would have been in the 80s. I have a little more respect for the quality of those kits knowing they're that old, in spite of the errors.

One of those first four kits I got all those years ago has been updated and repurposed into this:

[cannon]

Details West was founded by the late Bob Wigner who was a toolmaker and also responsible for tooling many of Athearn's BB models. The current owner Paul Federiconi worked for Bob for almost twenty years before Bobs passing and has now owned it himself for 13 years.

Dave Hussey
Cannon and Company

[grahamline]

In the '70s, we were overjoyed to have a contemporary car that didn't have big claws for the sliding door feature. Model railroading was much different then. A hot topic was shaving and replacing louvers to make Athearn's GP9 into GP9 instead of a GP7. Another popular program was mixing the dozen-odd shades of paint available to match some prototype scheme. Not that I want to go back.

[fr8kar]

Graham, you can still mix your own paint and kitbash your own cars. I do. It's fun.

Thanks for that bit of history, Dave. I find that kind of information fascinating. I'll have to go back and pull out some old blue box cars to see if I can find any similarities in shapes and other clues how things are rendered.

[cannon]

Dec 20, 2014 13:00:28 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

Graham, you can still mix your own paint and kitbash your own cars. I do. It's fun.

Thanks for that bit of history, Dave. I find that kind of information fascinating. I'll have to go back and pull out some old blue box cars to see if I can find any similarities in shapes and other clues how things are rendered.

All of that tooling (Athearn & DW at least) were done old school, in hardened steel cut with on 2D and 3D pantographs, from oversize masters. Not like today where someone creates a 3D solid model in CAD and the cavities are cut into 7075 Aluminum on a CNC mill. The time involved is light years less and modifying a CAD model for a different variation is much easier.

Dave Hussey

[markfj]

Hello Group,

Just for clarification, are “all” DW kits or RTR boxcars short? Fortunately, I have only one DW 52’ double plug door boxcar kit in Wisconsin Central that I paid $9.98 for (including shipping) on eBay. It’s kit number BC-516.

Are Athearn’s 50’ combination door and outside post plug-door boxcars also rehashed DW models? I have several of these cars. Just from looking at the underframe details, I'm assuming they are.

Not to throw Athearn under the bus, but it’s frustrating for people like me (who don’t know the history of these models) to find out they paid good money for a 30 plus year-old reworked "inaccurate" design.

Thanks, Mark

[Judge Doom]

Dec 20, 2014 13:55:07 GMT -8 markfj said:

Hello Group,

Just for clarification, are “all” DW kits or RTR boxcars short? Fortunately, I have only one DW 52’ double plug door boxcar kit in Wisconsin Central that I paid $9.98 for (including shipping) on eBay. It’s kit number BC-516.

Are Athearn’s 50’ combination door and outside post plug-door boxcars also rehashed DW models? I have several of these cars. Just from looking at the underframe details, I'm assuming they are.

Not to throw Athearn under the bus, but it’s frustrating for people like me (who don’t know the history of these models) to find out they paid good money for a 30 plus year-old reworked "inaccurate" design.

Thanks, Mark

A lot of the Athearn RTR 50' outside post boxes are former MDC/Roundhouse tooling, I think some had issues with being (a scale foot?) too wide.

[Spikre]

forgot about the DW 50' Plug and Sliding Door boxcar.
Details West Boxcars remembered here:
Generic Plug and Sliding Door box car.
FGE XLI box with Smooth Youngstown Door.
FGE with reversed,or outside post Youngstown door.
these cars should be close to the Correct length,but have
different problems depending on the model.
the Plug and Sliding Door car has the sliding door squased
somewhat to fit in the too thick door guides.would have been
better to mold a door that matched the side height on.
the sides are 10' Plate B for 10'6" Plate C ends on both FGE based
cars,DW didn't want to Tool correct ends it seems.
the Evans carbody is Short in length, and maybe a few inches short in height ?
have never seen the DW FMC 5347 body,but Athearn/RTR has done
at least one run of them.
Canon,
have read that Bob Wigner did the Tooling on the Golden Spike
50' FGE Mechanical Reefer kits about 1961.
not sure if the FGE XLI sides that Walthers later ran were Tooled
by Him ?
but they only showed up after Walthers acquired the tooling.
Spikre

[jimnorton]

The Details West guys must have been thinking..........On my Atlas car the IL data states an interior length of 52'-6". On the Details West car the same data states 50'-6". That is the two foot difference!

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL

[Spikre]

Jim,
don't recall the IL on the side of the DW Evans cars,stripped them all in the 80s.
but the body was shortened so that the FGE car bodies and the Plug and Sliding Door
could all use the same Master Mold, Ends and Roof.
a trick copied from Athearn and MDC no doubt.
Spikre

[Brakie]

Dec 20, 2014 15:53:12 GMT -8 Judge Doom said:

Dec 20, 2014 13:55:07 GMT -8 markfj said:

Hello Group,

Just for clarification, are “all” DW kits or RTR boxcars short? Fortunately, I have only one DW 52’ double plug door boxcar kit in Wisconsin Central that I paid $9.98 for (including shipping) on eBay. It’s kit number BC-516.

Are Athearn’s 50’ combination door and outside post plug-door boxcars also rehashed DW models? I have several of these cars. Just from looking at the underframe details, I'm assuming they are.

Not to throw Athearn under the bus, but it’s frustrating for people like me (who don’t know the history of these models) to find out they paid good money for a 30 plus year-old reworked "inaccurate" design.

Thanks, Mark

A lot of the Athearn RTR 50' outside post boxes are former MDC/Roundhouse tooling, I think some had issues with being (a scale foot?) too wide.

The supped up RTR MDC/Roundhouse boxcars is still a scale foot to wide..They look at home with Blue box cars but,looks out of place with scale width cars when view while standing up and looking down on the train.

I'm not sure if the former RTR DW boxcars is a foot wide or not.