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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 25, 2015 17:09:18 GMT -8
No. A train does not require cars. A self-propelled crane or an RDC could be a train. This will be on the test. ENGINE defined: NORAC 10th ed - A unit or combination of units propelled by any form of energy and operated from a single control, used in train or yard service. The word “engine” may also be used to identify control cars. GCOR 6th ed - A unit propelled by any form of energy or more than one of these units operated from a single control. Engines are used in train or yard service. Rules that apply to engines also apply to cab control cars. TRAIN defined: NORAC 10th ed - An engine with or without cars. GCOR 6th ed - One or more engines coupled, with or without cars, displaying a marker, and authorized to operate on a main track. A term that when used in connection with speed restrictions, flag protection, and the observance of all signals and signal rules also applies to engines. I know a train does not require cars. I just pointed out that an RDC fits the description of an engine (locomotive). My other (superfluous) point was that a self-propelled crane is not normally an engine. It is a maintenance vehicle, like a speeder or a hi-railer. These items are "units propelled by any form of energy and operated from a single control". But they are not "used in train or yard service". I suspect that once one of these were declared to be used in train service, a locomotive engineer would be required to operate it. As opposed to the crane operator. And that management and labor would be having some intense work rules discussions. Hence my comment about getting in trouble. So, while a self-propelled crane COULD be a train, it rarely IS one. As opposed to the RDC, which "always" is. I think a more correct definition of engine (locomotive) is any self propelled rail vehicle where the operator is required to be a locomotive engineer. Ed
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 17:09:31 GMT -8
Robert, take it up with John E. Kirkland,he had access to Alco and MLW records. the caption on page 158 of "The Diesel Builders,Vol-2,Alco and MLW" does say if the unit had been built at Alco it would have been an RSC-13. but MLW listed them as RS-13s. that is good enuff for here unless someone can come up with the MLW papers for those locos. Spikre What are you going on about? MLW did build RSC-13s. Why is this news to you? So the Kirkland book lists RS-13s? A scan of that page should be easy to do, not that it really means anything. But it would be interesting to see. Let us know where you upload it to.
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Post by Spikre on Jan 25, 2015 18:11:20 GMT -8
Robert, didn't scan anything,the complete book is next to me here. know there are some mistakes in the book,but don't think that is a mistake. nor is the RS-24 a mistake. but did check DSG-II,and they list the locos as RSC-13s and RSC-24s,so will correct those mistakes after checking the X2200 CN Roster that is available here. that will take a few days,so for now wont mark up any books yet. Spikre
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Post by riogrande on Jan 25, 2015 18:12:21 GMT -8
Sorry, didn't mean to stir up a controversy. When I mentioned locomotive, I was thinking of something like what pulls longish strings of freight cars or passenger cars.
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Post by Spikre on Jan 25, 2015 18:19:27 GMT -8
?? OK,how many here have even seen any RS-13s or RS-24s ?? been to Canada a few times when they were running, but never seen any. lots of RS-18s,FPA-4s,C424s,M630s,M636,but never the M640,or the RSD-17- "The Empress". lots of GMDDs and even the ON TEE train,the "Northlander" ? so while its painfull sometimes,do need to rely on Printed Media. Spikre
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 25, 2015 18:42:29 GMT -8
Sorry, didn't mean to stir up a controversy. When I mentioned locomotive, I was thinking of something like what pulls longish strings of freight cars or passenger cars. Will short string(s) of passenger cars do?: Ed
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 25, 2015 18:46:49 GMT -8
Robert, didn't scan anything,the complete book is next to me here. know there are some mistakes in the book,but don't think that is a mistake. nor is the RS-24 a mistake. but did check DSG-II,and they list the locos as RSC-13s and RSC-24s,so will correct those mistakes after checking the X2200 CN Roster that is available here. that will take a few days,so for now wont mark up any books yet. Spikre And if you wanna nit-pick, that RSD17 you mentioned was originally designated an RSD15M by the builder. Correct away. In fact, go and ask a Canadian railfan or CN modeler if they'd ever seen an RS13 or RS24, and they won't know what you're talking about or think you messed up the models for S13's and RS23's. Ask them about an RSC13 or RSC24, and if they follow CN's locomotives over the years they will likely know of both.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 25, 2015 18:49:05 GMT -8
Is Rail Line Bendy Track?
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Jan 25, 2015 18:55:05 GMT -8
No. A train does not require cars. A self-propelled crane or an RDC could be a train. This will be on the test. ENGINE defined: NORAC 10th ed - A unit or combination of units propelled by any form of energy and operated from a single control, used in train or yard service. The word “engine” may also be used to identify control cars. GCOR 6th ed - A unit propelled by any form of energy or more than one of these units operated from a single control. Engines are used in train or yard service. Rules that apply to engines also apply to cab control cars. TRAIN defined: NORAC 10th ed - An engine with or without cars. GCOR 6th ed - One or more engines coupled, with or without cars, displaying a marker, and authorized to operate on a main track. A term that when used in connection with speed restrictions, flag protection, and the observance of all signals and signal rules also applies to engines. I know a train does not require cars. I just pointed out that an RDC fits the description of an engine (locomotive). My other (superfluous) point was that a self-propelled crane is not normally an engine. It is a maintenance vehicle, like a speeder or a hi-railer. These items are "units propelled by any form of energy and operated from a single control". But they are not "used in train or yard service". I suspect that once one of these were declared to be used in train service, a locomotive engineer would be required to operate it. As opposed to the crane operator. And that management and labor would be having some intense work rules discussions. Hence my comment about getting in trouble. So, while a self-propelled crane COULD be a train, it rarely IS one. As opposed to the RDC, which "always" is. I think a more correct definition of engine (locomotive) is any self propelled rail vehicle where the operator is required to be a locomotive engineer. Ed For what it's worth, the FRA defines RDCs (or other DMUs)and Control Cab cars, as Locomotives. A self propelled crane is defined as a Track Car, so is a Sperry car, and any highway - rail car.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 18:58:53 GMT -8
Sorry, didn't mean to stir up a controversy. When I mentioned locomotive, I was thinking of something like what pulls longish strings of freight cars or passenger cars. A couple railroads used RDCs to pull trailers. I don't think that worked out well as they weren't designed for it.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 25, 2015 19:57:14 GMT -8
Sorry, didn't mean to stir up a controversy. When I mentioned locomotive, I was thinking of something like what pulls longish strings of freight cars or passenger cars. Will short string(s) of passenger cars do?: Ed Not longish enough!
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jan 25, 2015 20:27:09 GMT -8
All it needs is a new end and the 6-unit Roger Williams becomes a reality That and NYC's M190 make for more use from this tooling.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jan 25, 2015 21:22:49 GMT -8
Dear Bill of Rapido, I swear that I did not put thebessemerkid up to posting this photo.
Still...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 26, 2015 1:42:35 GMT -8
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Post by markfj on Jan 26, 2015 5:33:21 GMT -8
Regarding the pulling capacity of RDCs; what actually drives the wheels? I don’t see any traction motors in between the truck frames. Do all axles have power or just the inboard ones? I seem to recall a photo that showed a driveshaft being used. Thanks, Mark
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 26, 2015 5:47:39 GMT -8
Regarding the pulling capacity of RDCs; what actually drives the wheels? I don’t see any traction motors in between the truck frames. Do all axles have power or just the inboard ones? I seem to recall a photo that showed a driveshaft being used. Thanks, Mark It is a drive shaft. www.budd-rdc.org/sets/Hurricane-Turn/arr-May04.html
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Post by atsfan on Jan 26, 2015 6:54:14 GMT -8
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Post by lvrr325 on Jan 26, 2015 7:17:18 GMT -8
NH Roger Williams cars are also lower than standard RDCs by a foot or so, very obvious when they're next to one another.
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Post by rapidotrains on Jan 26, 2015 8:02:15 GMT -8
Don't show that photo to Budd - it will void the warranty! -Jason
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Post by bnsf971 on Jan 26, 2015 8:47:36 GMT -8
Don't show that photo to Budd - it will void the warranty! -Jason But will it void the Rapido warranty?
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Post by John Sheridan on Jan 26, 2015 9:51:40 GMT -8
But will it void the Rapido warranty?[/quote] If it is a Rapido Budd car ? Yes. If not, then no! Unless it is being pulled by a Rapido RDC.
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 26, 2015 14:09:56 GMT -8
If it is a Rapido Budd car ? Yes. If not, then no! Unless it is being pulled by a Rapido RDC. This was posted on a social media outlet recently, an RDC switching VIA LRCs! (looks like the original poster mislabeled them as Renn cars) I guess if they're Rapido LRCs, it might be prototypical? www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=1152
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Post by Spikre on Jan 26, 2015 14:18:45 GMT -8
?? is it the RDC or SPV that has 2 axles per truck powered ? with Budd long gone now,who cares about the Warrenty on 50+ old RDCs ? Spikre
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Post by alcoc430 on Jan 29, 2015 20:57:26 GMT -8
I have the digital MR. That Athearn C&NW chop nose and b unit features WIRE HANDRAILS. Yes but...LED headlights? Their ad did not say anything about LEDs
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Post by thebessemerkid on Feb 13, 2015 17:18:57 GMT -8
Cut and paste from the newsletter: The MSRP is $325 (DC/DCC/Sound) and $225 (DC Silent) in the United States, and $350/$250 in Canada. While the American MSRP is firm, the Canadian MSRP is a bit fluid, depending on the value of the Canadian loonie when the models arrive. (The loonie has lost a tonne of its value over the last few months weeks days hours).(sic) Thank you! That should translate to ~$259/$179 @ MB Klein For preorder fans: www.hogtrainz.com/RAPIDORDC.html
$259/$183 (I was close...)
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