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Post by Spikre on May 26, 2015 14:32:44 GMT -8
 while digging thru a bag that said "Athearn SD40-2 gears,found there were 2 different styles of gears in the bag. the Gears with the "Notch" on the end fit the Proto axles. but the gears with 2 smooth ends didn't,and can make the Proto axles fit with some work,they should be a Press In Fit. so what actually is in this bag,12 SD40-2 gears,and 12 unknown gears ? havnt seen this before,but havnt done this swap in about a decade,so has Athearn changed the SD40-2 gears,or are these "Smooth End" gears a different Athearn Part ?? Spikre 
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 26, 2015 14:40:07 GMT -8
Spikre,
I believe, back in the day, that Lifelike (and maybe Walthers, for awhile) would sell us axle gears.
So, I wouldn't be surprised if you have a mixed bag of both Athearn and Lifelike axle gears.
Ed
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Post by Spikre on May 26, 2015 14:53:54 GMT -8
?? Ed, was wondering that,but the gears removed from the chassis also had the "Notch" in one end, and a nasty Split running thru them. I'm not an Athearn expert,but do like to build up Chassis' now and then. have 2 other similar chassis from Proto to check later,but they are from a later run as they have the Corrected Proto Blomberg sideframes. this chassis must be a mid 90s as it has the Blombergs with the Spring Hanger Floating in space[missing the Spring Plank]. the Gears were bought new in at least 1 Athearn bag,but should have been 2 bags. Spikre  |
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Post by lee1234 on May 26, 2015 15:23:16 GMT -8
Athearn made a change to the gears. The american made and the proto gears are identical in appearance. After a period of being out of stock the replacement gears starting appearing in the new design.
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Post by Spikre on May 26, 2015 16:05:53 GMT -8
?? Lee1234, so the gears with both ends Smooth are new Athearn Production ? was able the get an Athearn half axle with a Sintered wheel to go in both ends,but it was tight. the Proto Axle didn't want to go in at all,but am sure with a bit more force,and camferring the axle hole they will work. but the Old Style gears worked much easier. another thing noticed was the Proto wheels were very close to the end of the axle,that can be fixed with a "Puller" easy enuff. Ed, even though have over 20 Proto BL2s,GP18s,and FA-2s,have never sent in for any replacements from either Life Like,or Walthers. was planning to count up the locos affected by this problem,but Walthers Stopped sending out the replacements before it was done here. so started buying the Athearn gears when the LHS had them. originally with the BL2s just went ahead and put complete Athearn Trucks in them,as that took care of the hosed sideframes also. it wasn't until coming online that the "Cracked Gear" problem was heard of. just thought that Life Like couldn't make decent power trucks. turned out it wasn't the trucks,just the gears. so some things learned online are true !! Spikre  |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 26, 2015 16:51:06 GMT -8
Spikre,
I'd be VERY wary of "a bit more force" when shoving axle shafts into the holes. I'd be bettin' there'd be a crack sooner or later. Plastic doesn't like to stretch.
As an example, I had a job where I wrenched some plastic female pipe fittings onto metal male fittings. Yup, most of them cracked within a year. THEN, after looking like the ignoramus that I was, I realized that if I'd chosen MALE plastic fittings to screw into FEMALE metal ones, I would have appeared to know what I was doing. Because the plastic would have been compressed, instead of stretched.
Just sayin'.......
Ed
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Post by lvrr325 on May 27, 2015 10:25:35 GMT -8
There also is an early Athearn gear used in the metal sideframe trucks, although it should be a different size than those used in the SD40-2 and GP38/40/50 etc. trucks.
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Post by Spikre on May 27, 2015 10:37:40 GMT -8
LVrr325, don't have too many of the older Athearn Metal trucks,so since these gears are the same size and were bought about 2 years ago,am sure they aren't for Ancient Athearn Fatties. Ed, its worth experimenting as there are 3 locos worth of the Smooth Ended gears. and also will slightly file down the Proto axles. or can slightly file the inside of the gear hole,either method should work. and if these are the New Athearn Standard Gear,will need to get used to using them on the rest of the Protos here, as there is a Proto 1000 RS-2,and several sets of Alco FA-1s. the FA-1s have both units powered,where the earlier FA-2s only had the A unit powered,but a powering kit could be ordered for B unit,and at $25.00 was rather reasonable. although at one Timonium show was able to get powered FB-1s for around $20.00,and in Erie,but they all have the same number, still, will get to that eventually, someday, maybe ? Spikre 
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Post by llxlocomotives on May 28, 2015 7:09:20 GMT -8
First, the half wheel shafts are all the same length. The difference between out side frame and inside frame is where on the shaft the wheel is located. It gets to be a problem on inside frame because the resulting tolerance will allow the two shafts to touch at times. Next, the design with the plastic axle gear with the axle that has an interference fit over the metal shaft is destined to fail. The tighter the interference the quicker the failure. I repair used engines. Eighty percent of Athearn inside frame axles are cracked. P2K took a big hit for this. Their shafts tend to be slightly larger resulting in a tighter fit. The plastic is in constant tension. This by itself is not a large issue. But put a few thermal cycles on the joint and the plastic will fatigue. The notch on the end was a natural stress concentration point, which is the weakest link. It is my practice to replace all axles like this. If they are not cracked, they are on the verge of cracking. Best to start from scratch. The Kato clone Wheel and axle design puts the plastic axle in compression with the interference. This still will eventually fail, but the time scale is orders of magnitude longer. Larry www.llxlocomotives.com |
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Post by atsfan on May 28, 2015 7:21:55 GMT -8
Do I remember a slow gear set sold for these way back when?
I remember having two ATSF versions that crawled after installation of new gear sets.
These the old shells with the tabs on the sides to hold them on!
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Post by llxlocomotives on May 28, 2015 8:28:11 GMT -8
This were likely the Earnst gear reduction sets. Those had some unique axle gears.. Generally the gear face was narrower, necessary because of the space the whole system required.
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Post by atsfan on May 28, 2015 9:22:07 GMT -8
This were likely the Earnst gear reduction sets. Those had some unique axle gears.. Generally the gear face was narrower, necessary because of the space the whole system required. Yes that was them ! |
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Post by Spikre on May 29, 2015 11:08:54 GMT -8
 cant believe this thread is getting hi-jacked by earnst gears . did someone find a trailer or container that was full of earnst gears some where ? they weren't that popular in the 80s as they were really only good for switching. ever here of 4 SD40-2s in MU that were equipped with those things ? they were too slow for road freight use.and became a sort of Curio even when they were readily available. maybe there is some sort of club for them,"I Installed Ernst Gears Club" ? just another Time Waster foisted upon the HO world. Spikre 
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Post by Brakie on May 29, 2015 13:32:05 GMT -8
while digging thru a bag that said "Athearn SD40-2 gears,found there were 2 different styles of gears in the bag. the Gears with the "Notch" on the end fit the Proto axles. but the gears with 2 smooth ends didn't,and can make the Proto axles fit with some work,they should be a Press In Fit. so what actually is in this bag,12 SD40-2 gears,and 12 unknown gears ? havnt seen this before,but havnt done this swap in about a decade,so has Athearn changed the SD40-2 gears,or are these "Smooth End" gears a different Athearn Part ?? Spikre Bob,For what its worth and it may not be worth a copper I've notice the newer Athearn RTR SD40-2 and the older BB SD40-2 MUs quite nicely together. Maybe the jobber that supplies the gears for several manufacturers put 2 non Athearn gears in the bag? |
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Post by llxlocomotives on May 30, 2015 5:52:22 GMT -8
The latest inside frame gears are shown here. The notch is clearly shown in to upper right gear. www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH60024These are visually identical to the P2K gears that I replace. The older outside frame axles part number 60023 has longer tubes that do not have the notch. Interestingly the older part does not show a cracking issue. |
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Post by lee1234 on May 30, 2015 6:23:45 GMT -8
I just checked a recent purchase of Athearn complete gear and axle sets 40028. They do not have the notch. I was able to purchase these at a discount making this a good alternative to replacing gears and sintered wheels.
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Post by Judge Doom on May 30, 2015 6:44:59 GMT -8
I've been able install both the "old" and "new" design Athearn axle gears in P2K units with no issue.
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Post by grahamline on May 30, 2015 8:08:41 GMT -8
Have not had to replace any Athearn 60024 gear centers after fixing several Life-Like and a few Athearn engines. This evening, will check my stock of 60024 gears (prices ranging from 3-something to 5-something) to see if there are differences. Some have been a right bugger to install. Generally, polishing the axle end or chamfering the gear has helped in difficult cases.
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Post by Brakie on May 30, 2015 8:32:25 GMT -8
The latest inside frame gears are shown here. The notch is clearly shown in to upper right gear. www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH60024These are visually identical to the P2K gears that I replace. The older outside frame axles part number 60023 has longer tubes that do not have the notch. Interestingly the older part does not show a cracking issue. Very interesting..I was not aware Athearn had different gears but,I never had to change gears even in my 30 plus year old BB engines that has seen heavy club use over those years. Apparently Athearn is still using their 14:1 gear ratio. |
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Post by Spikre on May 30, 2015 10:53:16 GMT -8
Larry L, think those are the "Old" gears in that link. but have 2 packs worth of the new smooth end gears. and since the price paid was in the $6-7 dollar range, they should have been New Stock when they were shipped in. but don't know if they came from Horizon,Walthers,Stevens, or some other source. and they were all in an official Athearn bag with the Athearn blue header on the bags. it may be Horizon is still shipping out packs of both gears ? since the bag opened last week had 24 gears in it,that is at least 4 packs of 6 gears.dont know if they were mixed,or only 1 style gear per bag ? the gears may have been mixed here when 4 packs were put into a Zip bag large enuff for them,dont recall as it has been about 2 years since the last pack was purchased. Spikre
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Post by Spikre on May 30, 2015 11:01:46 GMT -8
 Brakie, if all else is equal with the New and Older SD40-2s,dont think the axle gears will make any difference in how the locos run. if the older SD40-2 has better 40" Nickle Silver Wheels and is Hard Wired, it should run just fine after a good break in period. the current SD40-2 should have all the latest RTR improvements,which means better Wheels Factory Installed,Hex Drive Shafts,Screw In Motor Mounts,and already be Hard Wired, or even DCC Ready. so with a run in period the SD40-2s should MU with each other,although one may be slightly faster and be better in the lead. Edit -- remove the Athearn Lite Bulbs from ALL Athearn locos, and metal mounting brackets when present. Spikre
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Post by Spikre on Jun 5, 2015 8:45:15 GMT -8
found a pack of Jay-Bee 40" Nickel Silver wheels with brass axles. so will try them in both styles of the gears here. should also be some NWSL wheels somewhere around here also. this will give me: Athearn Sintered wheels and Steel Axles-made in the USA. Proto Chinese 40" wheels on steel axles ? Jay-Bee wheels on Brass axles,made in the USA. will see which works easiest. New Athearn Gears do have some Flash on one end of the Tube, that needs to be removed before using them in trucks. Spikre
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Post by Spikre on Jun 12, 2015 9:16:22 GMT -8
looks like the "NEW" Athearn Axle gears are going to be a problem,or make a formely 1 hour [ or less] job take somewhat longer now. Jay-Bee axles work fine on the side with the 3 bumps. they do not want to go into the Smooth Side. same results as the Proto axles. so far only the Athearn USA Axles with the sintered wheels go into both sides with no extra work. havnt tried NWSL axles yet,1990s Proto Axles,or Athearn RTR axles yet. and it may be awhile on the RTR axles as none are here yet, and don't plan on getting any in the near future. YMMV Spikre 
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Post by scl1234 on Jun 12, 2015 10:15:17 GMT -8
Y'know, those JayBee half-axles would probably work just fine if you used a piece of 600 grit sandpaper to mill the 3mm worth of axle (depth) that inserts into either side of the Athearn gear. At least it's what I do...and no this method isn't the best solution for someone who needs to replace axle gears in sixty LL/P2K Geeps.
Good Luck
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Post by llxlocomotives on Jun 12, 2015 20:06:43 GMT -8
I use Athearn RTR all the time. I prefer using the old wheel and will switch away from the polished NS if I have time. It is hard to make up that 20 percent loss in traction. The reason for the NS wheels is better served with graphite on the rails. It comes with less loss in traction, some, but less. If you have a lot to do, you can find them for much less than then buying the wheels and gears separately.
Wow, 240 gears to replace. I'm not surprised that they are cracked. It has been my experience that the design is flawed. I find old Athaern BB axle gears are cracked or about to crack at least 80% of the timeas well, so when I rehab either a p2k or a BB it gets new axle gears.
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Post by Spikre on Jul 13, 2015 9:44:29 GMT -8
yesterday got to finish cleaning the wheels,adding new gears,and checking over the 3 Proto GP30 Chassis here. ended up using 12 of the Old Athearn SD40-2 gears,thought there was one good Proto gear,but after removing it found it to be cracked also. Proto Axles don't fit easily into the New Athearn gears,only one side,the other side was too tight. so far only Athearn old U.S. axles with the sintered wheels fit both sides of the new gears. still havnt tried NWSL axles,or current Athearn RTR axles. would like to try a current pack of Athearn SD40-2 gears to see if they have done any work to the Tight side of the gears recently ?? Spikre 
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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 14, 2015 1:54:54 GMT -8
yesterday got to finish cleaning the wheels,adding new gears,and checking over the 3 Proto GP30 Chassis here. ended up using 12 of the Old Athearn SD40-2 gears,thought there was one good Proto gear,but after removing it found it to be cracked also. Proto Axles don't fit easily into the New Athearn gears,only one side,the other side was too tight. so far only Athearn old U.S. axles with the sintered wheels fit both sides of the new gears. still havnt tried NWSL axles,or current Athearn RTR axles. would like to try a current pack of Athearn SD40-2 gears to see if they have done any work to the Tight side of the gears recently ?? Spikre If one's ever tried to take apart one of the Walthers replacement wheelsets (and I've taken apart many for cleaning), they'd find the axles are literally super-pressed into the plastic gears as well - it's just as tight a fit as the replacement Athearn gears. You can get both sides in, you just need to press them in really good. The axle gear won't crack either. I've replaced P2K axle gears with both types new and old Athearn replacement axle gears, and haven't run into any splitting problems. |
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